<abathur>
a program that throws random error messages found in unanswered SO threads
<infinisil>
Take my money!
<abathur>
:}
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<abathur>
speaking of exceling at math; do we have any resident statisticians?
<samueldr>
not sure if MichaelRaskin is residing
<samueldr>
(not even sure if mathematician)
<infinisil>
Well I took way too many statistics classes
<infinisil>
That is, one of them
<infinisil>
Well maybe two
<infinisil>
That said, I probably forgot everything, and my current knowledge is based on wikipedia :)
<abathur>
yeah, similar
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<armin>
so someone on twitter was ranting about firefox in nixos being still version 77.0.1 which appearently has security issues. anyone a clue what they relate to?
<colemickens>
VR meets computer-strapped-to-self meets 8x monitors, meets dancing to techno music, meets a Charmin ad and a VR Charmin bear. It's really something.
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<infinisil>
colemickens: What the hell am I watching
<colemickens>
it's a lot. it's even more with the bear or him dancing. seems like this is the energy level even near the end o_0
<cransom>
i'm impressed, amused, bewildered, but most importantly, scared.
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<samueldr>
agreed
<samueldr>
confusion is... my new state of mind
<samueldr>
I somehow can't stop watching
<samueldr>
is he... the anime hacker trope irl?
<samueldr>
talking about the amount of seemingly custom hardware and setup
<aleph->
Reminds me... I should go get a new keyboard.
<aleph->
Was looking at that new moonlander one by the ergodox folks.
<drakonis>
oh goodie
<drakonis>
sushidragon
<drakonis>
oh my god why
<drakonis>
oh my god what is this drug trip
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<MichaelRaskin>
abathur: samueldr: I guess joining the channel only on weekends makes me non-resident? I do work with probabilistic stuff a lot but not with statistics (I mean, statistics has a ton of standard stuff like what exact distributions you get in various cases — this I just never need)
<aaronjanse>
Honestly I love that name. I know the "AAAAAA" is meant for alphabetical order, but it expresses the frustration when you accidentally have `nix repl` print the entirely of nixpkgs
<immae>
still, the bot refused to give us its content
<ashkitten>
:v AAAAAASomeThingsFailToEvaluate
<ashkitten>
:(
<ashkitten>
oh wait
<MichaelRaskin>
> 1+1
<{^_^}>
2
<ashkitten>
> :v AAAAAASomeThingsFailToEvaluate
<{^_^}>
AAAAAASomeThingsFailToEvaluate = AAAAAASomeThingsFailToEvaluate is not defined
<{^_^}>
unstable.AAAAAASomeThingsFailToEvaluate = unstable.AAAAAASomeThingsFailToEvaluate is not defined
<ashkitten>
:(
<immae>
(it’s just a throw)
<ashkitten>
heh
<MichaelRaskin>
It's on top, alphabetically first _and_ instant to evaluate
<MichaelRaskin>
I wanted to win all possible kinds of races
<MichaelRaskin>
It's not for nix-repl, it's for nix-build to complain understandably
<eyJhb>
What about when we want to complain?
<eyJhb>
Think I have reached the point, where I will dub AntennaPod as somewhat shit source. It acts sooo weird
<eyJhb>
Anyone have a different ANdroid opensource app that we can try to compile?
<MichaelRaskin>
Hmmm, Quill?
<MichaelRaskin>
I mean, there is entire F-Droid
<eyJhb>
Yeah, but searching for some apps that gets used I guess
<immae>
F-droid is built on nix??
<eyJhb>
Asking or saying?
<immae>
Asking from what MichaelRaskin said
<eyJhb>
I am guessing MichaelRaskin means there is the entire fdroid apps to pick from
<eyJhb>
That I can build using Nix
<MichaelRaskin>
Obviously I ask about Quill specifically because I hope someone builds it and then a few limitations become cheap to change (and it does not do anything crazy)
<eyJhb>
Currently in search of how to git-clone it
<MichaelRaskin>
F-Droid is no built on Nix, but I think it's the best opensource Android app database out there
<immae>
sure
<immae>
I misunderstood what you meant sorry :)
<eyJhb>
immae: But what I want
<eyJhb>
Is a FDroid repo built using Nix
<eyJhb>
:D
<immae>
ha ha
<immae>
that would be nice indeed
<immae>
(I see there is already fdroidserver in nixpkgs)
<eyJhb>
MichaelRaskin: No Gradle build for it :(
<eyJhb>
Currently only doing those
<immae>
but since f-droid is all about reproductibility etc. I guess the hard part of the job is already done no?
<Mic92>
I wrote a default.nix at some point
<Mic92>
Don't know where I put it
<immae>
(I mean, we would get a fixed-output derivation for each package)
<eyJhb>
Want to do it as Nix expressions
<eyJhb>
Not sure how they make them reprocuceable
<eyJhb>
I would guess FDroid is as reproduceable as e.g. Gradle is, if you are lucky
<MichaelRaskin>
Sounds plausible
<MichaelRaskin>
I think when upstream is already reproducible, they build in the same way and then ship double-signed package
<eyJhb>
Yup, basically
<eyJhb>
But mix NixOS into it, oohhh booof!
<eyJhb>
booy!
<eyJhb>
Damn it. It will be fun
<colemickens>
"but my normal ubuntu user is root." RIP
<colemickens>
I didn't know ubuntu let you do this still
<immae>
(maybe the person meant "a sudoer"?)
<eyJhb>
Why the hell does Gradle have hidden tasks
<eyJhb>
--all, thanks
<eyJhb>
KISS works I guess
<eyJhb>
Trying FDroid now, else it would be kind of a sad project
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<eyJhb>
Well , no dice I guess
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<worldofpeace>
"but my normal ubuntu user is root." omg that's just terrible 🤣
<{^_^}>
Use `,` to list all commands, `,foo = Foo!` to define foo as "Foo!", `,foo =` to undefine it, `,foo` to output "Foo!", `,foo somebody` to send "Foo!" to the nick somebody
<infinisil>
philipp[m]: Feel free to add yourself to the ,launch command!
<philipp[m]>
Are there docs for that?
<infinisil>
You're looking at them :P
<philipp[m]>
The ,launch command doesn't say much
<philipp[m]>
is it ,lauch add?
<bqv>
it's a string
<infinisil>
Are you ignoring the bots messages maybe?
<bqv>
lol
<philipp[m]>
Yes, I did...
<infinisil>
Yeah so `,launch = Ping for space stuff: <all nicks..>` to add yourself to it
<infinisil>
200000 people watching the stream, damn
<philipp[m]>
,launch = Ping for space stuff: infinisil Taneb ldlework etu philipp[m]
<{^_^}>
launch redefined, was defined as Ping for space stuff: infinisil Taneb ldlework etu
<bqv>
infinisil: is that really that much?
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<infinisil>
This might be the largest amount of live viewers I've ever seen
<infinisil>
That was 2 months ago when they went up, and this is them coming back down
<infinisil>
Let's see how many viewers there are when they splash
<bqv>
is there an api we can spam?
<bqv>
or can we mock up a scraper in 5 mins lol
<bqv>
TIL i can't type 5 or 7
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<bqv>
not a very eventful stream tbh
<infinisil>
Won't be as exciting as a rocket launch, but it will get more interesting as we go
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<__monty__>
Yeah, where's my space cameras?!
* infinisil
is also waiting for space cameras :)
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, in a sense the rocket launch is not that different from the ton of F9 launches by now…
<__monty__>
Except there were people aboard.
<MichaelRaskin>
Deorbit is similar to previous ones, splashdown might be slightly different, and retrieval will probably include the new steps
<philipp[m]>
I don't even get a stream any more.
<MichaelRaskin>
__monty__: yes, but you don't really see it from the operation.
<MichaelRaskin>
It's more of an inhabited than piloted flight when everything goes well.
<MichaelRaskin>
(some manoeuvres were piloted and performed for the first time, true, but not launch)
<infinisil>
Are you saying this is not like Kerbal Space Program??
<samueldr>
I think he's saying it's exactly like KSP
<infinisil>
Don't you need to do many things manually in KSP?
<MichaelRaskin>
I would say, it is not like «NASA of 60's» (closer to soviet Special Construction Bureau 1 of 60's)
<philipp[m]>
Not if you install enough mods :D
<MichaelRaskin>
(early USA space flight depended on humans controlling everything that humans can reliably control; here we have the approach of controlling automatically everything that can be realistically automated)
<infinisil>
I guess it still takes a while for them to land, like 40 minutes
<philipp[m]>
I forgot the name of the mod but I used to play with one that let you script your spaceships. That was pretty cool.
<infinisil>
I haven't played KSP at all actually, maybe I should, I have a feeling I'd enjoy it
<MichaelRaskin>
Don't compromise, go full Orbier
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<MichaelRaskin>
(Yes, I just want to talk somebody to package Orbiter-under-Wine as a Nixified package)
<philipp[m]>
KSP2 is coming out soonish. Maybe you can get into that.
<infinisil>
300000 viewers now
<bqv>
slow trickle
<philipp[m]>
KSP is such a great game. Teaches you a lot about space stuff and sooner or later you'll find yourself subscribed to scott manley on youtube because of it and you'll learn even more about space stuff!
<infinisil>
scott manley <3
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, I played with Orbiter back when I was using Windows, and before KSP existed… and what people say of KSP, sounds like it is a step down re: orbital mechanics both from orbiter and from good 2D space flight games
<ldlework>
I just skipped the 'playing KSP' step and just watched all of Scott's channel.
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, playing some space flight game does help internalise some things
<ldlework>
For that time when I find myself at the controls of a real spaceship.
<infinisil>
ldlework: About the same for me
<ldlework>
I actually have played KSP a bit, but it had that Minecraft tears-in-rain effect on me so I abandoned it pretty quickly.
<bqv>
nice, i mounted all my flake's inputs recursively onto /run/current-system/flake/inputs
<bqv>
so now i can grep all relevant sources
<bqv>
in one go
<__monty__>
That sounds pretty cool.
<bqv>
a little less ergonomic due to me having at least 5 copies of nixpkgs referenced...
<__monty__>
That sounds like something that warrants the ski-instructor meme.
<crazazy[m]>
wait is there another rocket launch?
<__monty__>
Only just noticed the peeling side on the desk. You'd think they'd put a less tattered desk in the frame.
<MichaelRaskin>
No, inhabited landing
<bqv>
love the terminology
<MichaelRaskin>
Official term is probably crewed
<__monty__>
Anyone know why we only have the boring control room visuals?
<andi->
at least they are using UTC for their time..
<MichaelRaskin>
Apparently someone thinks you should show humans, not just the soulless map. Maximum amount of humans in the picture is apparently control room
<andi->
humans are scare these days
<samueldr>
scarce or scary or yes?
<hexa->
scarce? :p
<andi->
both
<__monty__>
I don't need maps. I want to see a rocket capsule rocketing.
<philipp[m]>
Somebody removed the kitchen paper from the desk. Finally a job in spacestuff that I feel qualified to do!
<JJJollyjim>
I don't think I'm qualified for that thanks to ITAR :P
<MichaelRaskin>
Qualified and allowed are orthogonal notions
<JJJollyjim>
True:P
<JJJollyjim>
God, air superheated into plasma blocking RF is a scary concept
<eyJhb>
Somebody get a hold of tadfisher :(
<crazazy[m]>
i too want to become a kitchen aparrel administrator in spacestuff offices
<JJJollyjim>
I would not describe that audio as 5x5 lol
<infinisil>
andi-: We should get better footage soon
<philipp[m]>
I don't think they work on the audiophile scale.
<JJJollyjim>
:3
<samueldr>
I need "LOW RES DOWNLINK VIDEO" permanently on my webcam
<MichaelRaskin>
I am not sure at waht point they are going to extract the crew
<bqv>
eventually, i assume
<infinisil>
They said they'd first lift the capsule on a boat and only then open the hatch
<crazazy[m]>
i can't watch the rocket landing and use VC at the same time :/
<JJJollyjim>
feelings are nominal
<JJJollyjim>
:P
<infinisil>
Damn that's creepy
<andi->
audioquality is still not great in 2020 :D
<JJJollyjim>
5x666 caller has become a demon
<MichaelRaskin>
Landing a first stage for reuse: feasible. Live-streaming video from the first stage at the moment of touchdown: come on, they are not magicians.
<__monty__>
MichaelRaskin: They should've taken a smartphone with them...
<infinisil>
22 minutes until lifted onto recovery vessel
<philipp[m]>
Crew dragon should be using mumble...
<MichaelRaskin>
__monty__: it's US, cell data is _also_ broken
<infinisil>
Lol yeah, why is their audio quality always so bad
<MichaelRaskin>
I guess one part is that high-reliability large-distance-propagation at some point means low bandwidth
<__monty__>
infinisil: They must be using AT&T.
<infinisil>
MichaelRaskin: opus for one is surprisingly good even with low bitrates
<philipp[m]>
MichaelRaskin: I bet there is enough bandwith for decent opus encoding but they keep it analogue for kiss reasons.
<MichaelRaskin>
I am pretty sure their idea of reliability includes analogue, yes
<MichaelRaskin>
Especially at the reentry phase where technically speaking you could fry the electronics by some freak accident and still have a chance to land with humans in an… acceptable shape
<MichaelRaskin>
(passive aerodynamic stabilisation + analogue pressure-threshold release of parachutes)
<philipp[m]>
btw: I was tried encoding an episode of avatar: the last airbender at CD bitrates. I used x265 and opus and the result wasn't thaaaat bad.
<MichaelRaskin>
Video CDs in general were not that bad
<philipp[m]>
But video cd uses a much higher bitrate than audio cd, right?
<philipp[m]>
I should have specified that I used audio cd bitrates.
<MichaelRaskin>
I think the total bitrate is kind of the same
<infinisil>
One would think that video needs a lot more
<infinisil>
But audio has usually 44100 FPS so to say
<infinisil>
So it's not too far off
<MichaelRaskin>
Audio CD is pretty HiFi sound
<MichaelRaskin>
Lossless and uncompressed
<crazazy[m]>
someone here in VC was already complaining that the resolution was shit
<infinisil>
philipp[m]: Good taste btw, ATLA <3
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<MichaelRaskin>
VideoCD is about the same bitrate, but for lossy compression of video + audio
<philipp[m]>
Wikipedia says 224kbits/s v.s. 1150kbits/s.
<infinisil>
Oh wow that's a lotta boats
<crazazy[m]>
unrelated, but i just got the gomuks matrix client, and feels quite a bit better than riot
<MichaelRaskin>
Wait what? They both put ~74 minutes on a CD
<infinisil>
Haha, timing
<infinisil>
"We don't want anybody to fall overboard"
<infinisil>
*guy falls into water*
<infinisil>
(he jumped intentionally)
<infinisil>
Capsule is lifted onboard!
<crazazy[m]>
neat!
<MichaelRaskin>
It's funny how splashdown vs. wild steppe landing affects design
<infinisil>
wild steppe?
<philipp[m]>
Do they bring fishing equipment instead of a shotgun now?
<MichaelRaskin>
Soyuz is supposed to land on empty land in a roughly known location
<MichaelRaskin>
Crew Dragon is supposed to _always_ splashdown, no other options
<MichaelRaskin>
This, in particular, means, that Soyuz has the hatch on top, because it tips over half of the landings
<crazazy[m]>
wait but those capsules are round
<MichaelRaskin>
(Because the wind is enough to pull the parachutes between touchdown and detachment)
<crazazy[m]>
can't they just roll them over with pokers or something
<MichaelRaskin>
They are not really round
<samueldr>
they should design them like those toy clowns you punch that always come up
<MichaelRaskin>
And if you have an actual sphere of a few tons, getting it rolling is a Bad Idea™ too
<crazazy[m]>
lol yea
<MichaelRaskin>
Aerodynamic stabilisation is a thing, you know
<philipp[m]>
Also kinda hard to stabilize aerodynamically.
<crazazy[m]>
i mean just make it in a round conical shape and then you can just roll them to the right direction right
<philipp[m]>
I don't think that many humans are happy about being spin stabilised.
<MichaelRaskin>
crazazy[m]: I mean, getting a few tons of steel on flat surface rolling is just a bad idea
<crazazy[m]>
oh ok
<MichaelRaskin>
So the hatch is on top and that's it
<MichaelRaskin>
And for Dragon you know that by the time the hatch is open, it is upright
<MichaelRaskin>
Because floating
<MichaelRaskin>
(and then retrieval)
<crazazy[m]>
but then they can't touch the outside right
<crazazy[m]>
cuz how
<infinisil>
Nice to see everybody wearing masks
<crazazy[m]>
hot*
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<philipp[m]>
dragon is kind of like one of those clown toys after landed: They pump water into the bottom part and make it very heavy. Same principle.
<infinisil>
A.. ladder?
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, with Soyuz you have tens of minutes passing because of locate-the-exact-point routine
<infinisil>
What was that for
<crazazy[m]>
ironically filling itself with water is the last thing i expect a dragon in mythologies to do
<MichaelRaskin>
And we are talking the thermoisolation layer… designed to not hold (or transfer) too much heat
<MichaelRaskin>
crazazy[m]: Hmm, I think dragons are animals enough to be able to drink!
<MichaelRaskin>
given the circumstances of loss of the first Soyuz… it made sense
<MichaelRaskin>
Like, the checklists were being written, so something yet another surfacing and leading to landing in an unexpected place was not ruled out for some more time
<MichaelRaskin>
Yeah, by ISS times it was a really freak-accident precaution
<MichaelRaskin>
Although I guess a failure to avoid debris collision while on the wrong side of the orbit could lead to emergency evacuation in the always-there Soyuz
<MichaelRaskin>
And nobody would care about the coordinates…
<__monty__>
"If on its side chock capsule with rocks or other items before opening hatch." What is chock and why do you have to pelt the capsule with rocks?
<MichaelRaskin>
To avoid it rolling around
<MichaelRaskin>
You want to put enough hard-to-crush non-burnable items under the sides to make sure it stays in place when you apply force to the hatch
<MichaelRaskin>
As I said, a few tons of steel rolling around is bad news
<__monty__>
TIL what chock means.
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<ajs124>
If any of you are ever in Moscow, I can highly recommend that one museum which I forgot the name of. They have all the space stuff, including reentered soyuz capsules and stuffed space dogs in there.
<infinisil>
Hatch opening imminent!
<MichaelRaskin>
ajs124: I assume that is Museum of Cosmonautics on the north of the city?
<samueldr>
infinisil: it's that part in the movies where they find the hatch is empty, and they were actually talking to recordings from another reality
<infinisil>
Lol
<ajs124>
MichaelRaskin: Sounds about right. Also, if you want to see a Concorde and Tupolev Tu-144, we have those in Sinsheim, Germany. They aren't spacecraft, but they kind of feel like they are.
<MichaelRaskin>
Hmmm. If you count in terms of passengers × speed / vehicle mass, Concorde and Tu-144 might be pretty competitive
<bqv>
hththd
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<crazazy[m]>
aren't those planes like really big
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<cransom>
i was in one of the museum concordes. it may be long, but it's definitely not a 'big' plane. iirc it was still only 4 wide seeting.
<__monty__>
60 m long, only seats 4 with limited headroom yeah.
<__monty__>
A380 isn't much longer at 73 m but seats 10 on the lower deck.
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<eyJhb>
Midnight debugging, again Iguess
<eyJhb>
*starts raft vidoes*
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<philipp[m]>
Do you watch actual rafting, or the game?
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<eyJhb>
philipp[m]: the game
<eyJhb>
Btw. I am thinking of somewhat replacing Gradle2Nix with a Go script atm
<eyJhb>
Not sure it would work
<philipp[m]>
Sounds interesting.
<eyJhb>
Using Gradle would be ideal
<eyJhb>
But the API is so shitty
<eyJhb>
And there seems to be soo many weird errors
<eyJhb>
But I am unsure, if I should just wait till tadfisher gets back on Github philipp[m]
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<bqv>
Magit-wip makes my git log look insane
<bqv>
I'm intrigued to see how this will progress
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