<tazjin>
you're looking at a CI pipeline that was generated from introspecting a tree of targets, which were automatically read from the filesystem layout of our repo (https://cs.tvl.fyi)
<tazjin>
stuff is coming together ~
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<worldofpeace>
tazjin: how elegant ✨
<bqv>
hm, it's just coincidence, it seems. something is killing nix, but the place it stops at is just dependent on my config
<bqv>
hang on, what if this is a ulimit thing...
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<bqv>
oh, wow
<bqv>
nix had managed to not detect infinite recursion
<bqv>
i should probably report that as a bug but as ever i'm not even sure what was happening
<ashkitten>
what's it like these days to boot up a newbie linux distro compared to windows?
<ashkitten>
like, does everything a user would expect Just Work smoothly?
<ashkitten>
i don't know what windows is like for that tbh
<samueldr>
last time I tried to use ubuntu for something I forget what it was but it ended up kind of broken... so like windows
<samueldr>
but a different flavour of broken, so it looks broken to someone used to the brokenness of windows
<samueldr>
see, it's not that windows is simple, but you're used to the issues!
<samueldr>
(you being a generalized you, not you, except if you think it's about you, then maybe it's you?)
<ashkitten>
hm
<ashkitten>
i'm just out of touch with what normal users expect
<ashkitten>
i look at my nixos system and see a nice place where everything is tidy and works for my needs
<ashkitten>
i'm sure anyone else would find it completely foreign
<samueldr>
I look at my nixos system and I see all the warts I never ended up fixing :o
<ashkitten>
my zshrc isn't part of my nixos config
<ashkitten>
i just haven't edited it in a long time
<ashkitten>
keep telling myself i'll get to it later
<samueldr>
now you have a new goal :)
<samueldr>
ah
* colemickens
deletes his reply for the 4th time
<ashkitten>
mood
<samueldr>
eh
<samueldr>
github did that to me, then the browser did that to me
<samueldr>
(delete my reply)
<samueldr>
so now I'm writing it in a text editor, fully expecting the SSD, battery and power to fail on that computer
<colemickens>
I have to say, I don't love JS everywhere, but I do like knowing when someone else is replying on Discourse and I can skip it
<colemickens>
And Discouse has generally done a good job of persisting text between sessions/etc.
<colemickens>
for me, anyway.
<samueldr>
discourse is one of the least-bad implementations of js-heavy "appsites" as an end-user, imho
<ashkitten>
github usually retains text in the message field for me, even across browser navigation
<samueldr>
oh, it did, but when I used the button to send the review it decided I left no comment
<ashkitten>
weird
<colemickens>
ashkitten: I was surprised when Discourse did it cross-computer
<samueldr>
and the other time I used ^W to erase a word
<samueldr>
which, as you know...
<ashkitten>
i do that too often
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<ashkitten>
i wish i could use vim bindings in browser
<colemickens>
though, when I hit ctrl+f in discourse I get the closest to wanting to do the table flip emoji IRL
<samueldr>
yeah, though it's kind of understandable due to their (lack of) paging
<samueldr>
still irritating
<samueldr>
colemickens: if you were not answering to a specific thread because it looked like I was... I wasn't really :/
<colemickens>
I've decided to re-direct my energies :)
<samueldr>
good :)
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<Ashy>
ashkitten: a quick ubuntu install is still how i test new machine builds
<Ashy>
it's quick and easy to mindlessly click next through the installer and somewhere along the lines it prompts you for "do you want proprietary blob drivers too?"
<Ashy>
quick test to make sure everything is working
<ashkitten>
but what do people expect when they install an os to actually use?
<Ashy>
gpu drivers working, audio, wifi, bluetooth, function keys on laptops etc
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<bqv>
uh
<bqv>
there's a tiny shadow that sometimes crawls across my screen
<eyJhb>
Ahh, the lovely Docker error messages "invalid reference format"
<eyJhb>
Thanks, lovely. I know what to fix now, or.. like something
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<philipp[m]>
Just read a #NXOS hashtag on a twitter security thread and though it meant us for a second. I was half shocked that something bad had happened and half happy that people notice :D
<philipp[m]>
Of course in reality it was about cisco nx-os.
<tilpner>
From that tag, I assumed they meant nxos.org
<colemickens>
looks like a fun conf, others should post their favorite talks too
<pie_>
idk kernel contributors seem superhuman to me
<colemickens>
I mean, it's almost all over my head, but it's fun to pretend
<drakonis>
superhuman...
<drakonis>
then there's pidfs granting a capsicum-like api
<samueldr>
colemickens: sometimes they have extremely focused knowledge in one area, but lacking elsewhere
<samueldr>
thinking things like being unable to use something like an office suite except at the basic level
<samueldr>
so you have to stack *all* the areas of expertise you have some knowledge of before being totally humbled :)
<samueldr>
or in other words: you're probably good at something else, so think about that :)
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<joepie91>
(also don't underestimate the ability to connect together limited skills in wildly-varying topics, which is a very useful skill in and of itself but often feels like you're not good at anything)
<samueldr>
that, not all jack of all trades end up being useless
<bqv>
i need to set nyxt up to open pdfs with apvlv...
<joepie91>
I suspect most don't, actually
<joepie91>
jack-of-all-trades often end up being the person who knows all the other people and diverts things in the right direction and coordinates stuff and whatnot
<joepie91>
and while a lot of corporate management roles are useless, this type of 'management' definitely isn't :P
<bqv>
i once used the title "trafficker of information"
<joepie91>
likewise, they often have enough insight into a wide variety of things that they can tell person A "hey, hold up, person B had a problem with that and it's his expertise, ask him first"
<joepie91>
yeah
<joepie91>
"information hub" is usually my go-to description but sounds like approximately the same thing
<samueldr>
we (probably) all have known a jack of all trades, maybe they were jack-off all trades?
<bqv>
or just a jackass
<joepie91>
(also a very burnout-prone role unfortunately)
<colemickens>
infinisil: I'm sympathetic and probably in agreement with it. I had my system break once because the sway module pulls urxvt-unicode by default -_-
<colemickens>
(and also found that like 1/6 of my minimal Azure image is python just for systemd-boot-builder.py :upsi
<bqv>
that's unpleasant, is that not optional?
<bqv>
i guess sway's basically a full desktop environment anyway
<colemickens>
bqv, I have `programs.sway.extraPackages = []; # block rxvt`
<bqv>
psp
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<infinisil>
Crazy idea: Implement a CI daemon that everybody can run on their NixOS machines. Whenever a nixpkgs PR is opened/updated, everybody's daemon evaluates their NixOS system against the changes
<infinisil>
And if it starts failing due to the PR, the PR gets note of that
<joepie91>
so... distributed arbitrary code execution as a service? :P
<infinisil>
E.g. there would be a little indication "Doesn't break on 4/9 machines"
<infinisil>
joepie91: it would run in read-only mode, only evaluation
<bqv>
joepie91: yeah, that's scary
<bqv>
i mean if it's voluntary, it can't hurt
<infinisil>
^
<bqv>
but red lights do flash in my mind
<samueldr>
it'd be, imo, better to see it as a module you can put multiple configurations to test, and you'd run on a machine that's more likely online
<energizer>
distributed office heating as a service
<samueldr>
I wouldn't want my laptop to do the work, but would e.g. want it to be tested in addition to all others
<bqv>
lmao
<infinisil>
It would be *only* evaluation
<bqv>
energizer: that's almost as good as luxury gay space communism
<infinisil>
Which usually only takes a couple seconds
<bqv>
i mean, if it's eval, you could just have a pool of configs
<infinisil>
And the daemon would only transfer "success" or "failure" back
<bqv>
nothing is tied to the machine, really
<infinisil>
Requires people having their config public
<infinisil>
With just a local daemon that's not necessary
<bqv>
judging by github, there's more than enough configs
<bqv>
unless you expect like 1000+ people to sign up
<infinisil>
bqv: But also, those won't work if there's any secrets involved
<bqv>
das ist true
<infinisil>
Motivation for running this is "preventing PRs from breaking your setup"
<infinisil>
Imagine opening a PR that does some internal refactoring, and within minutes you get "This breaks 9/10 people's setups"
<bqv>
understandable, tbh
<bqv>
i'd sign up for it
<infinisil>
Me too
<infinisil>
The only problem I can imagine is that many people's configs don't evaluate without IFD
<infinisil>
Maybe that will change with flakes though, hmm..
<bqv>
i dunno, i'm on a flake, and i still end up using vigorous amounts of IFD without even intending to
* bqv
settled for zathura instead, because it can read pdfs from stdin
<infinisil>
Currently using evince, but I've been wanting to give zathura a better go
<infinisil>
The dark theme and vim controls are nice
<bqv>
it's cosy.
<bqv>
i would have just used emacs doc-mode, but that feels slightly filthy for any purpose other than latex
<bqv>
how often do you guys gc?
<samueldr>
I generally have a drive dedicated to the root and nix store, separate from my "daily life" drive
<samueldr>
so it's whenever it ends up filled
<samueldr>
which depends on whether I am building disk images a bunch
<bqv>
i really did want a system to gc once the store surpasses a certain maximum, but there's no such automatic feature
<bqv>
i currently gc once a day
<bqv>
i might reduce that to once a week
<elvishjerricco>
I do it once a day. I do a lot of one-off experiments that make big store paths. I don't need that crap sticking around :P
<bqv>
i don't either, but sometimes my one-off experiments take longer than a day, and i end up wasting the second one waiting 2+ hours for 400 haskell packages to build
<infinisil>
bqv: `man nix.conf` min-free: When free disk space in /nix/store drops below min-free during a build, Nix performs a garbage-collection until max-free bytes are available or there is no more garbage.
<bqv>
oh!!
<bqv>
yay
<bqv>
i was looking in nixos options, hm
<infinisil>
I should probably set that. I currently just manually gc when I notice it using too much
<bqv>
The AI feels like this is a sensitive topic. It does not want to get itself (or its programmers) into trouble, so it is refusing to elaborate. Try something else.
<danderson>
hm. I'm making a NixOS module that has to mess with the system's DNS configuration. Is there already a good facility within nixos to figure out what kind of DNS thing is in use?
<danderson>
(e.g. openresolv vs. systemd-resolved vs. ...)
<danderson>
oops, wrong chan.
<pie_>
danderson: id like to know if you find out
<pie_>
danderson: figuring out how the hell a dns stack works is one of my recurring dunno how to do things
<pie_>
now i just need to figure out what the point of all this was
<pie_>
tldr: proot doesnt implement setuid and setgid, and instead returns an error code. x11 implements a popen that calls these and silently fails / exits the fork if they fail. so the xkb stuff wasnt being called (im assuming the actual issue is something detecting that the fork returned an error code)
<pie_>
so after wasting way too much time failing to figure that out, i figured it out and wrote some ld_preloaded functions that nop setuid and setgid
<pie_>
we need a target for proot :p
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<bqv>
people love to say there's no such thing as a stupid question, but i wonder if there's a limit to that
<bqv>
cause i know autism makes me the progeniter of misunderstandings, but some people's questions seem like quantum superposition levels of making no sense
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<samueldr>
communication isn't easy for everyone
<samueldr>
many issues can muddle things up
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<samueldr>
the most basic issues that often arises is different context between interlocutors
<samueldr>
and assumptions on the contexts
<bqv>
for sure
<bqv>
but sometimes i feel like i'm just being trolled
<bqv>
that's why i consider how far i'd let that benefit-of-doubt go
<joepie91>
bqv: IMO there's no such thing as a stupid question, but there *certainly* is such a thing as a question badly asked
<joepie91>
only that is usually a solvable problem :)
<joepie91>
for me personally, the metric is how someone responds when I tell them what about their question is unclear -- if they get angry and start demanding that you magically answer their vague question, benefit-of-the-doubt goes out the window; but if they try again in a different way or ask how to improve the question, there's a clear path towards improvement
<joepie91>
(and it usually only takes a few roundtrips to get to a point where the question is clear and they have improved their understanding of how to ask good questions)