gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
Myhlamaeus1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
waleee-cl has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
ivan has quit [Quit: lp0 on fire]
ivan has joined #nixos-chat
endformationage has joined #nixos-chat
ivan_ has joined #nixos-chat
ivan has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
ivan_ is now known as ivan
das_j has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
das_j has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.4]
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
davidtwco has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
zimbatm has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
gspia has joined #nixos-chat
davidtwco has joined #nixos-chat
zimbatm has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
drakonis_ has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis_ has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<eyJhb> infinisil: so you got a dead SSD?
veske has joined #nixos-chat
veske has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
<manveru> somehow polybar crashes on a random monitor after suspend... still shows but doesn't get updated or accept actions anymore :|
andi- has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.6]
andi- has joined #nixos-chat
<eyJhb> manveru: my i3-status does the same sometimes, but not consistantly
<eyJhb> consistently*
<eyJhb> I should really look into autocorrect for Weechat. My phone screws with both my Danish and English in general, so now I can't spell in both languages..
andi- has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.6]
andi- has joined #nixos-chat
<eyJhb> elvishjerricco: why is Plex evil?
<elvishjerricco> eyJhb: It's closed source :P
<eyJhb> Ah...
<eyJhb> I am trying to find out who mentioned that they run Plex in a container, but I cannot find the log?!
<eyJhb> It is killing me....
<eyJhb> And yeah, also hate that Plex is closed source, but it just works so well!
<elvishjerricco> I've been really happy with Jellyfin, which is packaged in nixos-unstable
<etu> It's weird that emby went closed source :/
<elvishjerricco> Yea, that's super annoying
<eyJhb> Just found it, wondering if I should give it a go!
<elvishjerricco> But again, happy with Jellyfin :P
<eyJhb> But I still want to know who ran the container thingy! :(
<etu> Yeah, happy to see that Jellyfin was created
* etu should try out jellyfin at some point
<etu> real soon now, it's on my list
<eyJhb> Jellyfin looks kinda like Plex
<eyJhb> Or Plex Looks like Jellyfin, don't know who came first
<etu> Jellyfin is a fork of Emby
<etu> Emby was an open source competitor to Plex
<elvishjerricco> Plex is ancient. I'm guessing it predates pretty much all the competition
<eyJhb> Plex is a fork of Kodi as far as I remember
<elvishjerricco> Oh really? Damn
<etu> XBMC seems to be created in 2002, Plex in 2007
<eyJhb> Or some XBMC.. At least as far as I remember, the team parted, and some started working on Plex. Not entirely sure if they actually forked, but I somewhat assume so
<etu> And yes, Plex was a port of XBMC to macOS
<etu> But Plex/Jellyfin is very different usecase from Kodi imo
<eyJhb> Oh.. My experience with some Kodi members, is that they are ... to put it nicely ... not pleasant
<eyJhb> It is! Very much
<etu> So I'm a bit surprised that Plex is based on Kodi :D
<qyliss> surprised plex hasn't run into gpl problems with being based on kodi, given their business model
<qyliss> they must have to be very careful
<eyJhb> As far as I understood qyliss , it is only recently they have hired lawyers. And that was because of GDPR
<qyliss> oh, I see. it's just the server that's proprietary
<eyJhb> So the thing they have from Kodi, is pretty much just the "HOme Theater", right?
<infinisil> eyJhb: I think part of it is dead
<eyJhb> infinisil: isn't that somewhat impressive?
<etu> qyliss: Ah, so they made their own server and not really based it on Kodi I guess
<ldlework> sunvox is in nixpkgs
<infinisil> Trying to import my zfs dataset on it I get a bunch of ata errors
<ldlework> now that's a welcome delight
<eyJhb> etu: guessing THIS is what they based on Kodi - https://github.com/plexinc/plex-media-player
<infinisil> And running badblocks on it with write mode never even gets past 0.00%, constantly throwing such ata errors
<etu> I know that this company based their media player on XBMC with own modules for a streaming service. They have a section about that on Wikipedia and doesn't exist as a company anymore: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voddler#GPL_controversy
<etu> eyJhb: That makes sense :)
<eyJhb> infinisil: time for a new SSD I guess :/
<infinisil> Yea
<infinisil> Maybe nvme hmm..
<eyJhb> I am actually surprised on how many SSDs I have so far.. None which seems broken (yet)
<eyJhb> Would love NVMe
* joepie91 just installed a new SSD into his laptop yesterday
<talyz> etu: Ah, Voddler. Such a great company :p
<eyJhb> joepie91: which one?
<joepie91> eyJhb: 970 evo 1TB iirc
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
<etu> talyz: haha :D
<eyJhb> joepie91: damn nice. Got 850 EVO 250GB and 850 EVO mSATA 250GB in my laptop
<eyJhb> How much was it?
__monty__ has joined #nixos-chat
<joepie91> eyJhb: too much :D
<joepie91> 180 EUR
<eyJhb> Cheaper than my main SSD... :p
drakonis_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
<eyJhb> Still remember paying 335 EUR for 120 GB
Jackneill has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Jackneill has joined #nixos-chat
Jackneill has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Jackneill has joined #nixos-chat
Jackneill has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Jackneill has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis_ has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<elvishjerricco> The compactness of nvme drives still blows me away.
<__monty__> Isn't most of an "SSD" just packaging?
<infinisil> The Samsung 970 EVO Plus looks pretty good, 1TB NVMe with 3500/3300 read/write for 229 CHF (~$229)
<infinisil> Pretty good price I'd say
<__monty__> Wow, why are these prices still skewed so hard in favor of US?
<infinisil> It's cheaper in the US?
<__monty__> USD < EUR < CHF in valuation afaik? So the same number isn't the same value.
<infinisil> 1CHF is 1.01USD as of now
<emily> sales tax is part of it
<emily> (for the general case of european prices being higher than in the US)
<srhb> The most hated git message by me is probably: There are only 'skip'ed commits left to test."
<srhb> mumble mumble.
pie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
pie_ has joined #nixos-chat
<eyJhb> srhb: that still gives me PTSD after displaylink...
<eyJhb> What are you bisecting?
<srhb> eyJhb: Some dbus/login cruft which happened just around a staging merge as well.
<srhb> eyJhb: Joyous day :P
<eyJhb> Does not sound fun... That requires relogin to test, right?
<eyJhb> It usually is! I am just about to scp a season of big bang, and then reinstall my server with nixos. No clue how well this will go
<eyJhb> Aaand I forgot my IPMI login
<__monty__> infinisil: Wow, what's happened to the CHF?
<sphalerite> eyJhb: but, but, rsync!
<sphalerite> __monty__: I think CHF < EUR has been the case for a long time…
<eyJhb> sphalerite: shyyys, we don't want that :p
<__monty__> I guess it has. Hmm.
<eyJhb> Love how javaws doesn't give any error
<srhb> Oh great
<srhb> There are only skipped commits left to test. the first bad commit could be any of: (list with just one commit)"
<srhb> The UX is strong with this one
<eyJhb> srhb: how many left then?
<srhb> ... none, I assume? :P
<eyJhb> Ohh! Bad move srhb ! Now you assumed something, so there will probably be like, 10.000 now
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
drakonis1 has joined #nixos-chat
<averell> oh my xmonad also broke with dbus messages recently. if you find something, please share :)
<srhb> averell: Recently?
<{^_^}> #68498 (by srhb, 3 minutes ago, open): Weird DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS breaks applications that use dbus
<elvishjerricco> srhb: "There are only 'skip'ed commits left to test." Can't say I've ever seen that one. What prompts it?
<srhb> elvishjerricco: having the bad commit marked skipped, it looks like :P
<srhb> Oh, normally it's just because you have only skipped left and it can't determine which of them is bad.
<elvishjerricco> Oooh this is a bisect
<srhb> (Because they're contiguous)
<srhb> But this one was extra funny because there was just one skipped commit :P
<elvishjerricco> Yea :P
<srhb> "I can't tell if this bad commit is bad"
<srhb> ...ok, thx
<__monty__> Could be worse though. Stateful bisects where it depends on what commit you start the bisect from which ones are good/bad.
<srhb> ... what
<srhb> :D
<averell> ah, great. i get "connectSession: DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS is missing or invalid." when starting xmonad, so should be the same.
<srhb> averell: Yup, sounds like it. Reverting ccd8421dc9da745c2d44013e8f9eccd78cdf5bdc unbreaks it.
<averell> whee, excellent.
MichaelEden[m] has left #nixos-chat ["User left"]
<eyJhb> Anyone has IPMIview 2.14.0 ?
pie__ has joined #nixos-chat
pie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
<tilpner> eyJhb: If you have a smartphone, they apparently have apps for that. Not sure what to think about that
<tilpner> Or hey, if you trust random mirors: http://ftp.sleepgate.ru/drivers/MB/Supermicro/IPMI/
<eyJhb> WOuld somewhat work, but I need the virtual media too :D
<eyJhb> The SHA matches, so I actually used that! But It does not play well with my Asrock card.. :(
<eyJhb> IPMIView should be marked broken too
pie__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
pie_ has joined #nixos-chat
das_j has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
das_j has joined #nixos-chat
das_j has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
das_j has joined #nixos-chat
<__monty__> Ugh, final piece of my migration puzzle is setting up nginx. Does nixos automatically provide fast_cgi and php-fpm and other such nonsense?
<joepie91> __monty__: no
<joepie91> __monty__: may be useful: https://git.cryto.net/joepie91/morph-rc/src/master/configuration/default.nix#L122 (esp. the referenced php preset)
<joepie91> note: `alias` config feature in nginx and php-fpm setup do not play nice together
<__monty__> You have no idea of the dread I feel from just those 4 sentences : s
<eyJhb> Ahh, this looks perfekt! - https://i.imgur.com/lz370lm.png
<__monty__> joepie91: I'm biting the bullet anyway. Thanks for the help : )
<__monty__> joepie91: Can I trust you made really sensible choices and mostly just blindly copy this?
<joepie91> __monty__: I've tried to make as-sensible-as-possible choices. however, it *is* the result of a day worth of frustration at nginx failing without any useful error feedback, so take that into account :)
<joepie91> I'm sure it could be made nicer and more modular etc. but I just didn't have the energy for it, after finally getting it to work without any obvious security problems
<joepie91> (the issue for this is mainly on nginx' side btw, not NixOS' side)
<__monty__> Isn't nginix setup the worst?
<__monty__> *nginx
<joepie91> yeah, very not a fan :P
<__monty__> I do love being able to access the avahi hosts on a remote LAN though.
<__monty__> Required 2 nginx proxies (or is it reverse proxies?), a fairly obscure script and a dns to mdns hack in haskell to get it to work though.
<joepie91> __monty__: it's unfortunate that Caddy has chosen the business model it has, because it used to be my recommendation over nginx
<joepie91> because it Just Works
<joepie91> no stupid unlogged mystery errors, no arcane config invocations, imo it's a great example of what a well-designed off-the-shelf HTTPd could look like, from an end user perspective
<__monty__> Do I need anything to implement these presets or are they included with the nginx service?
<eyJhb> joepie91: http://learn.cryto.net/ won't allow me to learn about NixOS :(
<joepie91> eyJhb: ancient, unmaintained
<joepie91> currently broken in a strange way
<joepie91> __monty__: they're in the repo, see the imports near the top[
<joepie91> custom stuff
<__monty__> I really should set things up with let's encrypt but I don't have the energy to spend.
<joepie91> __monty__: that's a relatively simple one actually :P
<joepie91> those are basically all the nginx options needed
<__monty__> I'm considering not nixifying the nginx config I already have though.
<joepie91> for a given vhost
<joepie91> ah
<__monty__> Oh, gross, you indent with tabs? You monster.
<joepie91> tabs are for indentation
<qyliss> joepie91++
<{^_^}> joepie91's karma got increased to 7
<joepie91> unsure how I feel about this being the source of karma :D
<__monty__> Tabs should display like 8 spaces everywhere, all the time.
<pie_> wat <__monty__> Required 2 nginx proxies (or is it reverse proxies?), a fairly obscure script and a dns to mdns hack in haskell to get it to work though.
waleee-cl has joined #nixos-chat
<joepie91> __monty__: so it's a good thing that I used tabs for indentation and not spaces! because then you can set the indentation width to whatever your heart desires :)
<__monty__> joepie91: Except not because you should *never* adjust the width of a tab. And if vim can fix indentation in the form of spaces then surely any fancy shmancy modern editor you use can do that too.
<joepie91> __monty__: because?
<__monty__> Alignment is what makes code readable.
<__monty__> : >
<joepie91> __monty__: do you mean indentation or actual *alignment*?
<__monty__> There's literally no reason to insert \t's in a document though. We're not working on typewriters/teletypes.
<__monty__> I said alignment because I meant alignment.
<joepie91> __monty__: aligning code is a terrible idea, because it basically never survives code maintenance; when you're trying to fix an issue, you care about making things work, not about updating your alignment to make everything line up nicely again - and consequently, people *don't* care about this, and aligned codebases invariably end up in piles of misalignment
<__monty__> That's bs imo. Code should be written to be read. Not to be easily written.
<joepie91> yes, which is why you don't use layout techniques that invariably end up causing poor readability
<joepie91> (because misaligned code is harder to read than unaligned code)
<eyJhb> *laughs in Golang* not a issue
<joepie91> gofmt and friends just make the issue worse by removing a channel for developers to express the intention of their code
<eyJhb> That is a matter of opinion
<joepie91> everything is a matter of opinion, doesn't make the point invalid
<samueldr> I have learned over the time that people that hold a strong opinion in the tabs vs. space... space... often don't grok the other side, especially those that are wrong :3 (not singling out anyone with that said)
<samueldr> so since then I just don't bother expressing my opinions about that
<eyJhb> In broad, not everything. But I would take Golangs sane defaults, over unreadable codebase, and weird formatting which differ from person to person. Also, you pointed out "never survives code maintaince", which this helps to aid
<joepie91> eyJhb: it's specifically alignment that doesn't survive code maintenance
<joepie91> I wasn't talking about any particular other things with that (there are more, of course, but it certainly isn't the entire category of "expressing intent")
<joepie91> eyJhb: and I am well familiar with the argument for formatters, but what is never said aloud is the underlying unspoken philosophy: we'd rather force bad developers to produce barely-acceptable code by making awful code outright impossible, than to help lift them up to write *good* code by giving them the tools and education to do so
<joepie91> and that, IMO, is just another implementation of "trying to solve competence problems with tools", which is otherwise fairly widely accepted as a bad practice
<averell> that argument also works against testing
<joepie91> oh, believe me, I have Opinions about testing methodologies :)
<averell> and typing
<joepie91> idem
<eyJhb> joepie91: ?? and alignment is fixed by e.g. that tool. - Also, this goes way more over in actual code, than formatting now
<joepie91> all of these are topics with a lot of dogma
<joepie91> where very few people ever actually talk about the underlying concerns and tradeoffs
<joepie91> and philosophies
<samueldr> the tabs vs. spaces... issue... is mostly built over dogmas, incontrovertible truth one holds on a subject, so it's most often than not unproductive to discuss about :/
<samueldr> joepie91: were you reading my mind >:|
<Taneb> I avoid the issue by never using whitespace in any of my code at all
<joepie91> (and to be clear, I'm not singling out a particular side; they are topics full of dogma in general, on every side of the debate, and there are certainly more than 2 sides for most of them)
<samueldr> Taneb:Ifeelyou,thoughwhystopwithcode?
<joepie91> samueldr: :P
<Taneb> samueldr:Itendtofindafteracertainpointtheclaritylosseswindupcausingmiscommunication
<joepie91> samueldr: I have long been angering people by pointing out underlying philosophies behind dogma, it's certainly not something novel to this discussion :D
<joepie91> (where with ":D" I actually mean ":(")
<joepie91> I just want less dogma in software dev in general
<joepie91> or well, tech in general really
<drakonis1> jfc
<Taneb> I tend to react to sitations like this by finding a third option that everyone can agree is Wrong, regardless of what they think is right
<Taneb> (e.g., scone rhymes with mascarpone, not with gone or phone)
<eyJhb> Taneb: UH! I have the perfect image somewhere for that!
<joepie91> Taneb: lol
<joepie91> drakonis1: aaaaaaaaaaa
<samueldr> good thing Taneb that the four words you said all rhyme
<joepie91> infinite-scream.gif
<pie_> drakonis1: > named it netcat
<drakonis1> yes
<drakonis1> that's funny
<eyJhb> Can't find the image... - And with all these Intel flaws, I am beginning to think I need to rip it out
<pie_> damnit i wish people would stop polluting namespaces
<pie_> "The fast drives out the slow even if the fast is wrong."
<eyJhb> pie_: like this? https://getvim.com/ (not exactly the same, but it confused me to beging with)
<eyJhb> `Vim raises $24 million to match patients with top health care providers` didn't understand why to beging with
<samueldr> erm, it needs RDMA on, which I feel is... maybe a bit on the other side of the airtight hatchway?
<drakonis1> clearly.
<drakonis1> its for clusters
<drakonis1> its really good if you want to attack high value targets tho
<joepie91> pie_: can't help but feel schadenfreude around all the slowdown-causing patches for Intel now
<drakonis1> joepie91: i had gotten a amd laptop off a friend and had returned it to him today
<drakonis1> this is a funny bug
<drakonis1> i'll probably get a intel and nvidia laptop just because i need something that isn't gen1 ryzen
<drakonis1> still regrettable but
<drakonis1> welp
<infinisil> We just need to make sure we never run untrusted code, then we don't need the patches :D
<infinisil> "just"
jtojnar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<drakonis1> ha ha
<drakonis1> good joke
jtojnar has joined #nixos-chat
<pie_> samueldr: what needs it?
<pie_> joepie91: heh :/
<samueldr> pie_: that new intel scare
<pie_> ah ok misunderstood
<drakonis1> its an exploit for high value targets
<__monty__> Non-aligned code = badly aligned code.
__monty_1 has joined #nixos-chat
__monty_2 has joined #nixos-chat
__monty_1 has quit [Client Quit]
__monty_2 has quit [Client Quit]
<drakonis1> intel should've built on itanium
<pie_> but muh market
<pie_> __monty__: badly aligned code performs worse
<eyJhb> pie_: badly aligned code kills.
<Taneb> All code is badly aligned
<eyJhb> All code kills then
drakonis1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
drakonis_ has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
<__monty__> joepie91: Isn't php56 quite old? 19.03 has 7.1.30
<joepie91> __monty__: ah, yes, that's a special case here
<joepie91> emergency server migration, no time to port over code to 7.x
<joepie91> so this is a temporary workaround
<joepie91> don't do that if your code runs on modern PHP, or can be made to :P
<__monty__> Ah.
drakonis_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<__monty__> Hmm, I'm not actually sure I even need php. Since I'm just reverse proxying.
<samueldr> joepie91: I figure you know, but if you didn't, debian is maintaining security updates for 5.6 for a small while since it's what shipped with the previous stable
<samueldr> joepie91: if the client's emergency is not an emergency to upgrade :)
drakonis_ has joined #nixos-chat
<joepie91> samueldr: no client, own projects
<__monty__> Hmm, why is this nginx setup pulling in apache-httpd?
<samueldr> ah :)
<joepie91> but the old server was getting decommissioned soon, because OpenVZ
<joepie91> __monty__: great question, no idea!
<__monty__> Maybe it's the services.phpfpm?
<joepie91> seems odd that that would pull in apache
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
<__monty__> Gdi, I knew just copying over my config wouldn't work...
<eyJhb> __monty__: somewhat same boat. I hate Unifi.. Never works
<__monty__> Oh, pie_, forgot to respond to your "wat."
<__monty__> If you have a simpler way of accomplishing this I'd love to know.
<pie_> __monty__: i mean what in the world are you doing :D
drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<__monty__> Ah, I have a bunch of containers serving self-hosted apps on a server. I used to access all these using an avahi domain. That server isn't on my LAN anymore though so I needed to find another way to connect to them conveniently. So I set up toxvpn between a machine on the LAN and that server. A reverse proxy on that server to the containers running on it (could be running anywhere on that LAN
<__monty__> though, due to avahi). The host on the LAN publishes a bunch of aliases for itself along the lines of ${app}.self.local and a reverse proxy on that host proxies requests to the server through toxvpn.
drakonis_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
pie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
drakonis_ has joined #nixos-chat
<__monty__> Oh, forgot that the setup actually relies on a local dns server mapping a tld to the toxvpn connection.
<clever> avahi typically uses .local, with an mdns plugin loaded into the nscd binary
<clever> locally, i have my own private .localnet (to not conflict) that has custom domains for each machine
<__monty__> clever: Yeah, I use `.tox` to get me across the toxvpn link.
<infinisil> Um, when opening my tower PC, just to check if I have space for a thing, do I need to watch out for something? Static charge or so?
<infinisil> I guess I should make sure it's not connected to the power
<__monty__> It's possible tinc would solve most of this complexity now that I think about it. But that's exactly what I was trying to avoid (thinking about it).
<eyJhb> infinisil: yeah, the standard things
<eyJhb> Disconnect power, make sure you are discharged/grounded
<__monty__> infinisil: The power supply can be dangerous (should be properly grounded). Motherboard is also something to avoid. Definitely don't be grounded if you're gonna touch it while powered.
<infinisil> I'm not gonna touch it while powered of course!
<infinisil> So how do I discharge myself?
<__monty__> Touch something that's well-grounded.
<infinisil> Like.. the ground!
<__monty__> More like exposed water pipes, maybe a radiator.
<__monty__> Or a case that's grounded.
<infinisil> I see
<infinisil> That would be equivalent to me touching the middle wire in sockets?
<infinisil> (not gonna try that though)
<infinisil> Thanks __monty__ and eyJhb I'll give it a try
<infinisil> Want to find out whether I can install an NVMe
<infinisil> I'm 99% sure I can already, but I still wanna make sure before I buy it
<eyJhb> infinisil: I was gonna say, do not put things into the socket! :p
<eyJhb> But generally, radiator, water pipes (e.g. your sink)
pie_ has joined #nixos-chat
<infinisil> Got it
<eyJhb> But like, it is quite difficult to destroy a computer that way... I have taken more computers apart that I can count, and only destroyed one
<eyJhb> But that was because I dropped the drive.
<infinisil> I can see ho that would be problematic *nods*
<infinisil> Also, I just read that my motherboard has "electrostatically-guarded components (ESD guards) [that] protect your motherboard from lightning strikes and static electricity"
<eyJhb> Yes, generally, hard to kill... :p Have killed a couple of xbox 360 motherboards. But that was because of my soldering.
<infinisil> Impressive
<eyJhb> That is the words people typically used to describe me! But to sum up. Don't put things into sockets, do not drop drives and do not start soldering on your motherboard for fun
<eyJhb> Did you find out if it had NVMe?
<infinisil> Got it lol
<infinisil> Haven't done it no
<samueldr> infinisil: check the motherboard's manual?
<samueldr> tangential tip: when you get a $thing, download $thing's manual to a centralized manuals folder :)
<cransom> if i'm working on a machine and the powersupply has a physical switch on back, i flip it off and leave it plugged in just so it stays grounded while i touch metal to make sure i'm not all staticy. i haven't died yet, but beware touching things that are plugged into mains power.
<eyJhb> Guessing because at some point $thing's manual might be wiped from the net
<infinisil> samueldr: Yeah I have, it does support it for sure
<infinisil> I just want to confirm, also I can use this opportunity to clean it a bit, I haven't opened the tower in 4 years
<samueldr> eyJhb: might? will!
<samueldr> infinisil: since you have kitties, good luck :)
<infinisil> Thanks, but I have no idea what that expression is haha
<infinisil> I use alacritty!
<infinisil> (because there's a terminal called kitty, ha ha)
<samueldr> heh, I meant that 4 years of dust, and cat hair accumulation is possibly going to look nast
<samueldr> nasty*
<infinisil> Ahh!
<samueldr> nasty might not be the right word, though likely dusty
<eyJhb> Curl it up and use as extra toys
<cransom> also protip, the further up from the ground a computer lives, the less gross it can become.
<samueldr> nasty is if you smoked in addition to those conditions
<infinisil> Mine is high up, the kittens can't even come near it :)
<eyJhb> samueldr: yup, smoking makes it nasty
<eyJhb> Kitties always finds a way
<infinisil> They are a liquid after all
<cransom> i did support for a factory that worked with polyester fiber and some projects used some aerosolized glue. the machines that lived in the plant, if they didn't die the first week from heat, built up a thick layer of gluey fluff and then lived forever.
<samueldr> big (fl)oof
<eyJhb> infinisil: you know the rules, we desire kitty pictures.
<infinisil> Hehe
<eyJhb> samueldr: can one search in all the logs ? And not just on a single channel?
<samueldr> not through the logger interface
<eyJhb> Cannot for the life of me find anything in the logs, has there been any outages in the logs?
<eyJhb> I am quite sure there was a discussion about some cert renewal etc. some time ago
<samueldr> not that I know of (outage)
<samueldr> eyJhb: what kind of discussion about cert renewal?
<eyJhb> I was part of some migration questions I had, where I need certificate renewal via. DNS instead of HTTP, and someone had a nice way of doing it with systemd
<eyJhb> And some bash thingy
Myhlamaeus1 has joined #nixos-chat
<samueldr> eyJhb: only thing I can find quickly, though likely not the only one https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-dev/2019-06-30#2349736;
<eyJhb> Nope :/ I am begining to think I am just dreaming all of this.
<samueldr> more likely that you don't have the right words in the context to search for
<samueldr> the internal search is weird; the word index makes partial word match not work as expected sometimes
<aanderse> hmm... i'm going to assume there is no way to hint to nix that (in a module) something isn't null because a previous assertion said so?
<samueldr> context
<samueldr> ?*
<aanderse> calling concatMapStrings over an option which is attributes, i know that one of the properties by this point is not null because i asserted
<aanderse> i try to reference the property
<aanderse> nix can't tell that it isn't non-null
<aanderse> so balks
<aanderse> yeah... i guess i just need an iff
<aanderse> ** if
<aanderse> ah i see....
<aanderse> yeah, ignore me
<samueldr> glad to have ducked it out for you
<aanderse> mhm mhm
<aanderse> :)
ivan has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
ivan has joined #nixos-chat
<infinisil> eyJhb: Unfortunately I couldn't find good fotos of all cats together
<infinisil> This is one though: https://paste.infinisil.com/3luqXVsq_o.jpg
<infinisil> They were cuter when they were younger though: https://paste.infinisil.com/N_7LG1QrUc.jpg
<samueldr> oof
<eyJhb> infinisil: that is some transformation :p
<infinisil> Oh wait! Wrong pic, here: https://paste.infinisil.com/RfNlhbloJs.jpg
<eyJhb> They do look cute ! But they look very trapped in the bathroom :p
<eyJhb> Trapped!
<infinisil> Trapping all the animals
<eyJhb> First doors, then blankets. What won't you do next infinisil ?
<eyJhb> infinisil++ for kitties
<{^_^}> infinisil's karma got increased to 140
<infinisil> I gotta trap them all so I can snap a better picture of them together :)
<infinisil> Man I picked the worst photo, can't even see their faces
<eyJhb> Haha, trapping cats AND getting good pictures, that's kinda hard
<eyJhb> Here is my brothers not so amused cat - https://i.imgur.com/gPs29pl.jpg
<samueldr> here's my totally not confusing looking cat https://stuff.samueldr.com/cat.jpeg
<eyJhb> samueldr: looks kinda buff there
<infinisil> Nicce
<samueldr> the cat is on the corner of the square ottoman
<infinisil> Okay so I opened the tower
<samueldr> maybe I should have shared that one first https://stuff.samueldr.com/cat.png
<infinisil> Lol
<infinisil> So I opened the tower, but where the nvme is supposed to go, it's really obstructed
<infinisil> By fan and GPU
<samueldr> AFAIK it's often expected you install them early in the build process
<samueldr> which is inconvenient :)
<infinisil> Damnit
<eyJhb> Are we going to shop samueldr's cat random places now?
<__monty__> Ok, 502s rather than 404s, making progress.
* __monty__ rubs his hands
<infinisil> I don't even know how to get the cooler out lol
<infinisil> I can't see any screws!
<__monty__> Make sure you have thermal paste handy before ripping it off.
<eyJhb> infinisil what __monty__ said :p
<eyJhb> Did you assemble it yourself back in the day?
<infinisil> Okay I'm out
vika_nezrimaya has joined #nixos-chat
<infinisil> Not touching that
<infinisil> I guess I need a new cooler that doesn't clock the nvme slot
<infinisil> s/clock/block
<__monty__> Do you really need to remove it to install an nvme drive? They're pretty low profile normally.
<eyJhb> How does it look?
<samueldr> infinisil: it's possible the cooler is attached from the back of the mainboard, requiring the mainboard is removed from the case
<samueldr> or if the case is neat, it might have an access window on the other side
<infinisil> It does!
<infinisil> I'll take a look at that
<infinisil> eyJhb: Ima snap a photo
<infinisil> That grey vertical thing there in the middle is the nvme slot..
<infinisil> Above is the cooler, below the GPU
<eyJhb> Might be possible to access if you remove the GPU, but holy hell that is a big cooler
<infinisil> It's mainly the cooler that's blocking it..
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
<infinisil> Yea that looks big
<ivan> cargo needs nix-shell integration :-)
<samueldr> yeah, eyJhb might be right, depending on the space under the cooling block
<samueldr> the M.2 slots don't need much vertical space to be installed
* infinisil checks how big the nvme is
<samueldr> be sure to note you seem to only be able to install 2280 and 2260 drives
<samueldr> (60 and 80 being the length)
<infinisil> 80mm is the one I'd want
<infinisil> Yeah no that doesn't fit at all
<infinisil> I have maybe 6-7cm room
<infinisil> A new cooler it is!
<eyJhb> Does it take up space, in the length of the NVMe slot?
<infinisil> Yea
<averell> i think that nvme will fit below the cooler
<infinisil> What I could do is just cut off the end of the nvme a bit to make it fit, I don't need the full 1TB anyways
<infinisil> :)
<eyJhb> infinisil: I dare you
<eyJhb> Do it :D
<averell> which direction do you think it will be blocked? usually you can install the GPU and cooler on top without problem
<infinisil> Um, up?
<averell> they are like 3mm high
<infinisil> I mean, in the direction of the connection
<infinisil> perpendicular to the motherboard
<averell> it's hard to see on a 2d pic, but the 2260 2280 slot markings to the connector look free
<averell> it just lays on top of them
<samueldr> sorry if it sounds condescending, but you don't need to plug it perpendicular to the board, the highest it will go is about there https://www.groovypost.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/push-m2-ssd-into-slow-medium-pressure-1280x853.jpg
<samueldr> (I have no idea if you have experience with the m.2 connector)
<infinisil> !
<infinisil> How does that work
<infinisil> You can like bend it?
<samueldr> they are spring-loaded, for better contact connection
<averell> (but no bending, maybe there is some obstruction we can't see)
<drakonis> 20.03 is goats, nice.
<samueldr> infinisil: does it make more sense after seeing that guide?
<averell> just to make sure, the plane of your nvme will be parallel with your CPU
<infinisil> samueldr: Oh thanks, I get it now
<infinisil> averell: Huh
<samueldr> it may still be a tight fit, too tight to work though, depending on the available depth
<samueldr> to fit without removing the cooler*
<samueldr> it's likely to fit with the cooler attached when already installed
<infinisil> Pretty sure I'd have to take out the cooler yeah
<averell> then don't forget to order new paste. gpu might suffice though.
<infinisil> So I literally have to rip off the cooler with all my strength?
<averell> lol, no
<samueldr> no!
<averell> it has 4 screws
<samueldr> which motherboard is it?
<infinisil> Phew
<samueldr> if you have the list of hardware parts, the cooler part would be good too
<drakonis> infinisil, haswell mobo?
<samueldr> ooh, red, so it's faster
<drakonis> RED RUNS FASTA
<drakonis> it has a m2 slot and its not even a Z97, my gigabyte mobo disappoints me
<infinisil> Cooler is Noctua NH-D15
<infinisil> I'll find those damn screws now
<drakonis> they don't use killer nics in that one either, damn
<samueldr> infinisil: they're under the fan :)
<averell> those brown things can be removed from the metal of the cooler with those clamps
<infinisil> Oh!
<averell> brown things being the actual fans :)
<averell> i wonder how they managed to fit it with this plastic, it looks too high.
<samueldr> infinisil: with a "custom build" (even if store bought) getting all the parts manuals too is good :)
<__monty__> That cooler definitely looks high-profile enough to shimy an nvme under while it's installed.
<samueldr> looks like it's on the cusp
<infinisil> __monty__: Yeah definitely, I just didn't know how nvme's were installed earlier xD
<averell> i think it will be much easier to just remove the gpu
* infinisil looks at the GPU
<__monty__> infinisil: Then why did you say it needs to be removed 7 minutes ago?
<samueldr> it's at least easier to do
<infinisil> Oh yeah that might work
<infinisil> I could slither the nvme under
<samueldr> you don't need to re-paste the or anything
<samueldr> remove the gpu
<infinisil> __monty__: Because I don't think I could install the nvme without it being away
<__monty__> Yeah, pop out the gpu, shimmy in the nvme, pop the gpu back in place. Cross fingers that you didn't brick your system.
<infinisil> didnt'*
<infinisil> __monty__: Yeah that sounds like a good course of action :D
<infinisil> Now to try remove the GPU
<averell> there might be a "switchy" thing you have to pull up on the pci slot, after you removed the screw.
<samueldr> there will be :)
<infinisil> Hm yeah I know what you mean
<samueldr> depending on the construction of your case, it will either be directly screwing the pcie bracket, or some clamp mechanism will
<infinisil> Looks like the GPU is blocking the clamp thing! But like I need to release the clamp thing to get the GPU
<infinisil> Where is the base case man
<averell> you need to release the catch-22 first.
<averell> it should be under the cpu.
<samueldr> huge GPUs are painful to work with :)
<infinisil> I can see why people install nvme's first
<eyJhb> I just got the bare minimum to work on my server... But no SSL, backups, or rotation of backups
<infinisil> Maybe I'll just go to my local computer shop lol
<averell> no, that's for after everything is broken
<infinisil> Kinda stuck taking out the GPU
<infinisil> No idea how this was put in
<averell> screw off, hold that clamp, pull up.
<infinisil> To pull the clamp up, I need to remove the GPU
<infinisil> Because it's *right* under the GPU, touching it
<averell> it doesn't need to be fully up or anything
<infinisil> Maybe there is a bit of space
<averell> or maybe to the side
<infinisil> It's kind of hard too because access to the clamp is blocked by the cooler
<infinisil> So I have to use some long tool to get there
<samueldr> infinisil: the pcie clamp thing is a push (down) towards the motherboard
<infinisil> Down to release?
<samueldr> yeah
<samueldr> searching for a good picture explanation
<infinisil> I see, lemme try
<samueldr> not *exactly* relevant, but the mechanical interaction is demonstrated https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrS6ah84hQU
<infinisil> It moved!
<samueldr> the lever thing both serves to lock the card with the notch at the end https://stuff.samueldr.com/screenshots/2019/09/20190911160200.png
<samueldr> and when pressed, it kicks it back up to mechanically free it from from that same notch
<infinisil> I see
<infinisil> I still can't get the GPU out, but this is progress
<infinisil> samueldr++ eyJhb++
<{^_^}> eyJhb's karma got increased to 3, samueldr's karma got increased to 116
<infinisil> averell++
<{^_^}> averell's karma got increased to 2
<ldlework> has anyone here used sunvox at all
<infinisil> I got it!
<infinisil> Alright I think this can work, no need for the computer shop
<eyJhb> I feel my karma lesson in the glow of samueldr :p - Did you get it out?
<infinisil> Indeed, I just had to nudge it around a bit
<samueldr> it's always a bit scary the first few inexperienced times
<averell> after that it's like lego. basically nothing that shouldn't go together fits :)
<eyJhb> Ohhh I have seen some things averell :p
<samueldr> though sometimes things that should fit together won't, and then you scream against the short cables
<eyJhb> People + CPU Sockets
<infinisil> Now let's see if it works again if I put it back
<samueldr> that's a straightforward operation, so hopefully it will
<averell> finally you can go for those 1TB nix-collect-garbages
<samueldr> one thing that could have happened is that the m.2 slot only supports SATA mode, and the drive is PCIe, but your board's page states it's PCIe so it should be fine
<infinisil> averell: HMm yeahh
<infinisil> samueldr: Awesome :D
<joepie91> averell: it always amazes me how well the lego principle holds up in consumer computer hardware, despite the wild and messy history of standards and connectors and protocols and power requirements
<joepie91> averell: honestly USB-C has been the only failure I can recall in recent history
<samueldr> joepie91: did you know that usb4 hosts *have* to support the new eDP modes, per the spec
<samueldr> so it's expected that not many usb 4 host ports will show up on new hardware -_-
<joepie91> right but that is the protocol layer
<joepie91> not the connector
<joepie91> the problem is that unlike everything else (and pre-C USB), the USB-C connector does not actually reliably correlate to any given set of protocols
<samueldr> yeah
<samueldr> with usb 4, it's kinda relevant because it's *the* connector
<samueldr> and they have not made strides into making it better :/
<samueldr> so you'll still have type-c ports, but more mystery meat behind them
<samueldr> [citation needed] there's the "old" DP alternate mode for type-c, but usb4 has a new DP mode
<samueldr> so now, what's supported by your display, cable and host port?
<eyJhb> I am begining to fell old, when the newest hardware I have is from 2012...
<eyJhb> Is there any "date" for 4.0?
<samueldr> the spec is out
<samueldr> so "soon"
<eyJhb> So just a matter of time for someone to implement it?
<samueldr> but likely a ways away
<manveru> just wait for "USB 4 Directors Cut Edition (uncensored)" until you buy it...
<samueldr> btw, TBT3 in USB4 is still going to require being approved by Intel
<samueldr> and Intel requires the implementor to just copy the reference design
<samueldr> [citation needed] again
* manveru just really wants a new CPU :|
<manveru> but for that i need a new motherboard, and that needs new ram...
<samueldr> bleh, can't find the thing I saw about the new dp mode :(
<averell> i'm on my 3rd ryzen. this is the first that doesn't suck :)
<eyJhb> manveru: Newest socket motherboard I have is 775
<manveru> i'd love one of those new ryzen :)
<manveru> 200 euros for ~30% more performance would be awesome
<manveru> my condolences :P
<manveru> mine's older though :D
<manveru> i just hate working on notebooks
<eyJhb> Eh, it works fine. THe only problem is that I have my DisplayLink which hammersmy CPU.. But all in all, I am very satisfied with my little x230 :D Pimped to the *almost* max :p
<eyJhb> Docking statiosn manveru ;)
<eyJhb> stations*
<manveru> i got enough space for a desktop
<averell> you need a doctorate in autorandr though, to use those :)
<pie_> heh
<eyJhb> I have never had problems with autorandr :|
<eyJhb> Well yeah manveru , considering a desktop too! But I just love I can take it with me everywhere, and not worry about sync etc.
<pie_> ive had problems with bad dock drivers tho
<eyJhb> pie_: which brand? USB?
<manveru> just never go anywhere :D
<eyJhb> I think I might fail uni then
<eyJhb> And get fired
<eyJhb> :D
<joepie91> going places is overrated anyway :P
<eyJhb> After a week of being sick, I want to go places :p
<eyJhb> joepie91: are you working?
<eyJhb> LIke, normallly?
<joepie91> eyJhb: freelancer, work from home
<joepie91> or well
<joepie91> work from anywhere with an internet connection really
<joepie91> but mostly home
<joepie91> (and yeah, I was kidding a bit :P though today is defiinitely a day I don't feel like going anywhere...)
<infinisil> PC works again, I didn't mess up reassembly
<infinisil> s/reassembly/"reassembly"
<pie_> well. printer printed sometthing, will have to check the output tomorrow
waleee-cl has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
Myhlamaeus1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
drakonis_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
__monty__ has quit [Quit: leaving]
Myhlamaeus1 has joined #nixos-chat
<infinisil> Argh, decisions. 500GB NVMe for 109CHF or 1TB NVMe for 229CHF
<infinisil> The reasonable choice is 500GB, but I'm not reasonable
* infinisil slaps infinisil
<infinisil> infinisil: You don't need more than 500GB man, I know you, just get the lower one
<joepie91> infinisil: generations tho
<ivan> Windows VM though
* joepie91 is a bad influence
<samueldr> a winwat vwat?
<samueldr> that sounds counter-productive to anything
<ivan> how else are you gonna play The Witness without crashing
<infinisil> Ew windows, I just threw that malware out of the SSD a couple days ago
<infinisil> Fortunately I'm not a big gamer :)
<samueldr> I'm confused, infinisil, didn't you just install a new drive, or were you just looking to see if you could change it?
<infinisil> samueldr: The latter
<samueldr> oh!
<infinisil> But I'll order one now that I know how to install it, and that I know it actually fits
<samueldr> are they the same specs, mfg, model range, but different size, or are there other specs to check?
<samueldr> because AFAIK, SSDs are hard to compare because of the different kinds there are
<samueldr> different storage mediums and techniques
<samueldr> if they aren't be mindful of that and search for benchmarks and reviews, it might help you decide for one or the other
<joepie91> yeah, very much that
<joepie91> they're not mostly-interchangeable like HDDs are
<joepie91> different memory techniques leading to different performance and durability, different 'keyings' of the connector, different physical dimensions, etc.
<samueldr> and here I wasn't comparing keyings and protocols :)
<infinisil> Here is a comparison of the two
<samueldr> ah, so both the same thing, but one larger
<infinisil> Yeah
<samueldr> make an inventory of what you need and want on the fast drive
<infinisil> They do have some differences though, 512 vs 1024 MB cache, 480000 vs 600000 IOPS (whatever that is), and 3200 vs 3300 MB/s write speed
<samueldr> operations per seconds iirc
<samueldr> IIRC, it's because of how SSDs are made, you queue operations in any order, it gets executed in an optimized order
<infinisil> samueldr: I am 100% sure I won't need more than 500GB *right now*
<samueldr> but are you close to filling it or way far :)
<infinisil> Far, maybe 300GB
<samueldr> I don't see more than 50% as far
<infinisil> Yeah I should just not worry about it, 500GB is plenty
<samueldr> you've got the two thirds full already!
<infinisil> Hm
<infinisil> Okay most of it is the /nix/store I never garbage collect
<samueldr> now you have to factor whether you're going to increase use quicker than it'd take for the larger drive to become cheaper :)
<samueldr> ah, then it's free real estate you can largely ignore
<infinisil> Hehe yea
<joepie91> infinisil: can you comfortably pay for the large one without breaking the bank, or does the price difference really matter to you?
<infinisil> Yeah it kinda does matter
<infinisil> Am jobless right now
<infinisil> But I'm also living at home
<infinisil> s/home/my parents home/
<joepie91> infinisil: then get the 500 :)
<infinisil> Not getting any pocket money though, so my savings are monotically decreasing
<joepie91> if you don't know what iops are, you are not going to care about the difference, in all likelihood
<infinisil> Yeah 500GB will be perfect
<infinisil> Good point :)
<infinisil> People in #zfsonlinux have helpfully pointed out that maybe it's just the ata cable failing
<infinisil> For my previously assumed-broken SSD
Myhlamaeus1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]