gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
<joepie91> I don't recall what we used to call our house spider when I was a kid...
<aanderse> spiders are great
<aanderse> because they eat most of the other gross stuff
<joepie91> spiders are basically just free insect removal to me
<joepie91> :P
<aanderse> mhm mhm
<gchristensen> anyone by chance know what kernel config is required for capabilities (CAP_SETFCAP etc.) to work?
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<pie___> so i ran into some really scary behaviours and now im reading the unix haters handbook and its depressing
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<pie___> lassulus, o/
<pie___> and im increasingly tempted to spend some time trying the lisp machine OS
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<infinisil> I hate you, Apple
<infinisil> I don't really use it or iCloud anymore, but unfortunately my mail account is still an icloud one
<infinisil> Problem is: Apparently I don't have any space left, the free 5GB is used up
<infinisil> But: Trying to use "Manage Storage" on my iPhone tells me "7.9GB of 7GB used", along with the list of programs that use storage, which sums up to about 1GB.., where the hell is the rest??
<infinisil> "7.9GB of 5GB used"*
<infinisil> Mail is in that list and it uses 600MB, but I have no idea where these other 6.9GB are and I can't delete them..
<infinisil> I tried going to icloud.com on my linux machine (had to turn off vpn for it to work at all), but there it gives me "Can't load iCloud Drive, There was a problem loading the application"
<infinisil> GODDAMNIT
<infinisil> This opaque bullshit is getting on my nerves
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<MichaelRaskin> pie___: too bad Lisp Machines were machines of a simpler age
<sphalerite> infinisil: fetch it all out using SMTP (mbsync or similar), then delete it all?
<sphalerite> oh but most of it isn't email. Right
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<jD91mZM2> Learning NixOps makes me feel about the same as a child on Christmas does as he opens the lego set he wanted
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<ldlework> And comes to discover it's the robot kind of legos, but there's no batteries included and we can't find any in the house.
<jD91mZM2> Guess we'll make some batteries! A challenge :)
<MichaelRaskin> If I were a potato or a lemon, I would be extremely afraid now
<jD91mZM2> I guess it reminds me of Christmas as a child more than I thought! "You better watch out, you better not cry..."
<ldlework> NixOps is good in theory, it just needs the substantial backing of multiple corporate users. :P
<MichaelRaskin> The proper interpretation is: it requires you to code a lot of details, but the tooling is useful enough that it can pay off even at medium scale
<jD91mZM2> To me it feels magical being able to nuke my DigitalOcean droplet, save money on a snapshot, only to get it right back the almost exact way that it was
<MichaelRaskin> And it's not even cheating DO — if they say storage commitment is more expensive than bandwidth to them, why not use a slightly lossy compression scheme which is super-efficient at the cost of some bandwidth needed to unpack?
<ldlework> I think Nix is good at what it does, I'm just uncertain whether NixOps specifically will ever be competitive with its peers is all.
<ldlework> I could imagine being really satisfied with a Nix-provisioner module for Terraform.
<jD91mZM2> MichaelRaskin: Also, you barely need backups either, because all your configs might be backed up along with your personal system, or maybe they are open in a git repo :)
<tilpner> What about your data?
<tilpner> /var/lib and parts of /etc
<MichaelRaskin> There are many cases where data is way smaller than the system — and maybe is already versioned
<jD91mZM2> tilpner: The only sensitive things for me personally are small databases that I don't really mind losing. And yeah, like MichaelRaskin said
<tilpner> Smaller, sure, and I suppose there are a few usecases where no valuable data is involved
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<elvishjerricco> Just discovered that Plex is evil. What media servers do you guys use?
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<samueldr> I'm doing it in one of the most uninvolved way, and just sshfs mount the storage on my local computer that handles downloads, but I also only consumes on another computer which doesn't need transcoding or anything
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<elvishjerricco> samueldr: Haha that works. Unfortunately there's no iOS app for sshfs :P
<samueldr> don't good off with your iDevice, it's for seriour business :3
<samueldr> sreious*
* joepie91 hands samueldr a new keyboard
* samueldr can't even spell
<elvishjerricco> lol
<samueldr> cat's bumping against my arm
<MichaelRaskin> I am not sure even Blackberries were for Serious Business
<MichaelRaskin> Nokia (old Nokia) N9 probably were
<samueldr> N9 isn't old ;/
<MichaelRaskin> _Two_ engineering calculators got into top-10 most-downloaded .deb's of the launch.
* samueldr weeps in n800
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<samueldr> (though it wasn't a phone at that point in time)
<MichaelRaskin> old Nokia refers to organisation
<samueldr> ah
<MichaelRaskin> N810 with modern amount of RAM (2GiB I mean, not even 6 GiB) and I probably won't be too annoyed that it lacks Bluetooth…
<MichaelRaskin> Although N810 did have bluetootj
* andi- searches for the N900 that is hiding somewhere
<MichaelRaskin> And _unlike_ the modern Android garbage, it _did_ succeed in controlling a phone over Bluetooth
<samueldr> never came across this side of the ocean :(
<pie___> MichaelRaskin, yeah
<samueldr> (and was basically useless when imported due to missing bands, at least in Canada)
<andi-> I hope the librem5 version2 will be any good.. Maybe the first version of the pine phone will also be good...
<MichaelRaskin> Bluetooth control of cheap phones, and no need to care about bands.
<samueldr> my devkit for the pinephone landed in the country during the night
<samueldr> it's on the other side of the country, so unless it's kept behind customs for long, it probably will be here by the end of the week :)
<samueldr> though one thing to keep in mind: it's based on a SOPINE board, and it's aiming for a really low price point, this might be a turn off for some :/
<andi-> Well for IRC and phone calls that is surely enough? :-)
<samueldr> I guess so!
<MichaelRaskin> Frankly, specs are OK for a €100 phone
<andi-> I love the physical keyboard on the N900.. nothign else every came close to it.
<samueldr> yeah
<MichaelRaskin> And I use the smartphones from approximately the same price range anyway
<samueldr> (yeah for the price point / no idea about the nokia keyboard hardware since it never came here)
<MichaelRaskin> But _smaller_
<samueldr> I was just saying since I'm betting there will be bad reviews and bad blood shed over the "abysmal photo qualities" and "poor performances"
<andi-> Do we have any effort in porting any of the phone UIs (gnome/kde) to NixOS yet?
<samueldr> jtojnar opened a WIP PR with the dialer from the librem5 recently iirc
<samueldr> otherwise I don't know of any yet
<andi-> In retrospect I should have opted for the librem devkit just to start working on support earlier..
<{^_^}> #57614 (by jtojnar, 1 week ago, open): Librem5 phone apps
<{^_^}> #57614 (by jtojnar, 1 week ago, open): Librem5 phone apps
<MichaelRaskin> I want a <75mm wide phone (5'' 70mm) and I don't care about specs that much…
<samueldr> from reading on the pinephone irc channel, the main reason for the size is (1) availability of screens.... everything is huge so cheap is huge and (2) fitting the things in for that first revision
<MichaelRaskin> I expected (2) to be that, yeah
<MichaelRaskin> I thought 5'' is not yet a rare thing
<MichaelRaskin> (Argh, I remember when N810 with 4.3 was _large_)
<samueldr> remember the dell streak articles?
<samueldr> had a 5" diagonal screen (though a lower screen-to-body ratio) and was widely ridiculed as being way too big
<MichaelRaskin> And maybe I would be enticed by Gemini PDA despite its huge size, but I look at the renders and I am not sure it is comfortable to hold for reading (in context of reading for non-trivial amount oftime)
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<MichaelRaskin> There was Necunos, but price for 1-GiB RAM device was steep. I am happy they are sold out, and hope they sell out the next bunch, but I am not the target audience there, either.
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<MichaelRaskin> (looking at BuyVM, wondering if 10GiB and 512 MiB RAM for $20/year is enough for all small things, or am I likely to hit the RAM limit, because of Monotone or Matrix-Synapse or Pijul or something like that…)
<gchristensen> $20/yr :o
<tilpner> MichaelRaskin: Do you intend to use your Synapse in federation with matrix.org?
<MichaelRaskin> Not with large rooms
<MichaelRaskin> And maybe not at all
<MichaelRaskin> I have another Synapse instance, which is at the same place as my main email, and which we now keep under 100MiB RAM by not joining large rooms. (Python 3 and jemalloc help)
<joepie91> MichaelRaskin: synapse likes RAM, afaik
<joepie91> ah
<joepie91> you knew that :)
<MichaelRaskin> Wait, I can pay $10 per 6 months without yearly commitment? OK, grabbing that to decide later
<MichaelRaskin> I know a bit better than I would like…
<etu> samueldr: I'm running the sed s/nix/borf/ now ;D
<etu> Gonna see if anything builds
<srhb> xD
<samueldr> borf inſtanſiate
<andi-> but then we need proper utf8 support in nix!
<samueldr> not then
<srhb> I don't even know what that symbol is :P
<samueldr> we need
<samueldr> long s
<gchristensen> ß?
<srhb> inſtanſiate aha
<etu> I want to use my unicode snowmans as variable names.
<gchristensen> haha
<etu> You say that nix can't let me do that?
<etu> :(
<gchristensen> is there a compose key for a long s?
<srhb> I never noticed any unicode issues, but I didn't try to be mean to it...
<samueldr> gchristensen: fs for me
<samueldr> ſ
<srhb> Why is it not sz
<srhb> >>
<samueldr> it's from the shape I guess, while ß is ss
<srhb> Ah :)
<srhb> I need to set up a compose key..
<samueldr> it's useful™
<etu> srhb: I often think that, then I don't add it to my list of things to do and never do it.
<srhb> :P
<srhb> It would be more useful for me, when I switch languages. I'd like to stay on one layout, really.
<etu> :-)
* etu have completed a long time top contender on his todolist today
<MichaelRaskin> I have a single latin layout for all languages I ever consider typing using lating layout
<srhb> Yeah, that's what I want..
<srhb> etu: Oh?
<MichaelRaskin> Is there any language currently using long-s?
<etu> srhb: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/58208 -- I have it running here in lsp-mode in Emacs showing hints in some of my older php projects :-)
<{^_^}> #58208 (by etu, 6 hours ago, open): phpPackages.language-server: init at 5.4.6
<MichaelRaskin> srhb: I do accept the penalty of 3+1 key combo for some characters, including ones used in Danish
<srhb> etu: Neat!
<srhb> MichaelRaskin: Sounds acceptable to me. The mental overhead of having different locations for brackets etc. is terrible.
<etu> srhb: It's basically that I added some stuff from composer2nix as a file in build-support and then built the package with it. And made sure to run all the stuff needed to pre-generate stubs data etc during build :-)
<etu> Actually really nice, I will have a lot of use of this
<MichaelRaskin> srhb: Well, if you type text + programming, maube even intl-altgr or something like that is OK for you
<srhb> MichaelRaskin: Yeah :)
<MichaelRaskin> A large part of my pushing things into layout is about writing x∈X ∨ y∉Y
<srhb> I want that too, but I have zero practical use for it, sadly :-P
<MichaelRaskin> And then I have a tri-layout setup
<MichaelRaskin> Cyrillic for other text, and greek for formulas
<srhb> Goodness.
<gchristensen> you are remarkable
<MichaelRaskin> Well, why whould I need all that math without being able to write ∀ε>0 ∃δ>0 ?
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<MichaelRaskin> srhb: as for practical use, in a sense I don't have either. I mean, all permanent-record publications are in *TeX, so people generally read LaTeX math notation fluently even without UI support…
<srhb> MichaelRaskin: A few years ago I would have sworn people would start using unicode in TeX source files, but I guess not.
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<srhb> And I suppose it doesn't help you much when you just get a few greek letters, but still need to do something smarter for writing 2D math.
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<MichaelRaskin> XeTeX means you get Unicode in your TeX file! But come on, math is still done in the same way as before
<MichaelRaskin> I mean, typing Unicode is a skill; and people already have learned the TeX commands for typical math
<MichaelRaskin> Also, come again when Unicode actually gets a consistent set of subscripts! Just look at the list of subscript small latin letters. It is neither complete not in a single place
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<srhb> Yeah.
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<MichaelRaskin> srhb: as of not having use for that — well, if youpush all that math into layout, algorithm complexity chatting becomes more convenient!
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<MichaelRaskin> Re: $10 for 6 months: have I mentioned they have a NixOS ISO as an option for manual installation?
<MichaelRaskin> Not for automatic, though
<gchristensen> :o
<joepie91> that'd be the one I asked them to update, I think :P
<joepie91> you'd be surprised how many providers are happy to add an ISO to the list if you just file a ticket
<MichaelRaskin> I guess it will be time to ask again soon
<MichaelRaskin> Indeed — storing an ISO is cheap, and having a comprehensive list is useful for users
<joepie91> well, a nice thing about NixOS is that you could theoretically install a later version from the ISO of an earlier version
<joepie91> (in most cases)
<MichaelRaskin> It might be a bit painful on 512 MiB system
<MichaelRaskin> And for rescue ops it is always nice to have latest
<joepie91> aye
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<samueldr> interesting thing (imho) is under "Standard Images" where "Significant work has been done to provide libraries for EFI Rust development"
<samueldr> "Either bootloader project can be forked and repurposed as desired"
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<colemickens> Wow, just came here to ask if anyone was following Redox.
<colemickens> The bit about "The result of the relibc work can be seen in the massive addition of new packages that can be added to your filesystem.toml when building locally, or installed with pkg install." is intriguing.
<colemickens> what? ffmpeg on redox already?
<samueldr> I'm not following redox :) not sure where I saw the link and my eyes drifted to the UEFI bit
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