gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
<cransom> gchristensen: wha'ts the rpi for? the esp8266s are a couple dollars a piece.
<cransom> you could rpi it though, sure. there are automation hats for that which have relays/etc that woudl do the job and then you'd have something familiar there.
<cransom> it woudl be signfiicant over kill just to drive a gpio on/off.
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<samueldr> hmm, the firefox instance started through rofi started through xbindkeys, as a systemd user service, seems to inherit xbindkeys as a name in journald; that confused me somewhat
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<hyperfekt> aleph-: What's the patch for restic?
<sphalerite> gchristensen: also, a raspberry pi doesn't have software-controllable pull-up/pull-down resistors on the pins, unlike ESPs, which makes ESPs easier to use for various sensors
<sphalerite> samueldr: wrap rofi in systemd-run? :p
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<sphalerite> gchristensen cransom: one possible addition to the firmware part: esphome is pretty neat too, I've been using it for my smart sockets
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<cransom> esphome looks extremely relevant to my interests. thanks
<cransom> i have some temp sensors around the house that i wrote code for to do deepsleep, since tasmota/espurna don't have that ability and i didn't want to keep the board running, generating heat into the sensor. i giddily see that option in esphome
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<aleph-> hyperfekt: Just a couple patches to speed up restores and pruning. A few PRs that haven't been pulled in yet
<hyperfekt> aleph-: Ah yeah, I use the new restorer code too to make it work at all. ^^
<aleph-> Yeah it would just error out for me
<aleph-> But the our of order restorer patch fixed that
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<pie__> joepie91: ux: nix-collect garbage should not allow garbage colecting the last known bootable configuration withouth an expliciit flag
<samueldr> it shouldn't?
<pie__> afaik we dont have a 'last successfully booted config' tracker, but we should
<samueldr> we do
<samueldr> hum
<pie__> oh?
<samueldr> I think
* samueldr is thinking
<samueldr> /run/booted-system points to the current successfully booted config
<pie__> and by should not allow i mean it should also warn you
<samueldr> though yeah, now thinking back
<pie__> its not really nixs fault but i shot myself in the foot by gcing with -d
<samueldr> it might not be nough
<pie__> which is to say i wanted to gc all the previous generations because i needed disk space
<pie__> but i didnt realize that might mean i havent tested my current boot
<pie__> i reboot like once a month by accident or by crash
<pie__> you get what im sayin?
<samueldr> I thought that ram GC roots would stop that though
<samueldr> yeah
<samueldr> hmmm
<samueldr> though adding /run/booted-system as a permanent gc root would likely solve that
<pie__> its a side rant that it would be nice if collect garbage was more flexible
<samueldr> at least you know that the currently booted system... booted
<pie__> right
<pie__> i _should_ open a gh issue for this later
<pie__> ux / failure resistance
<pie__> neat, didnt know booted-system is a thing
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<ashkitten> my torture test av1 encode has been running for over a month now, it's at frame 1402
<ashkitten> i wonder if it'll finish this year
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<__monty__> What? That doesn't sound like a practical codec.
<ashkitten> if you could see what i'm trying to encode i think you might have a different reaction
<__monty__> Is it eyeball resolution footage of the entire observable universe?
<ashkitten> here's a badly encoded version on youtube: https://youtu.be/8cJKPdaXPoA
<__monty__> Not sure why that's so hard to encode?
<__monty__> But can you imagine youtubers encoding every video for over a month?
<__monty__> That's not sustainable.
<ashkitten> literally the entire video is nothing but grain, in many different colors, the pattern changing randomly every frame
<ashkitten> that's a nightmare for any encoder
<ashkitten> av1 is brand new, there's no hardware acceleration yet, and it's not optimized yet
<ashkitten> i can encode it with rav1e in a couple days, i'm just trying to use libaom-av1 because i felt like it
<__monty__> Ah, thought the graininess was an artifact.
<ashkitten> the graininess is the video
<ashkitten> because i'm evil
<ashkitten> when i said torture test i meant it
<__monty__> Still though, over a month?
<ashkitten> libaom-av1 is the reference encoder, it's not well optimized at all
<ashkitten> i'm sure it does a lot of things naively, resulting in extremely bad worst case performance
<ashkitten> this is very much the worst case
<ashkitten> i'm not trying to prove anything by this, i just think it's funny
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<sphalerite> ashkitten: don't you think the bits where the "light beams" go into the camera are a bit too easy for the encoder? :p
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<ashkitten> shrug
<__monty__> I expected fullscreen grain for those : )
<ashkitten> it's not made to be a perfect test, or it wouldnt have taken me 13 hours to render in blender and instead would've been some mathematically calculated perfect pattern or some shit
<ashkitten> i'm not an encoder engineer
<ashkitten> it's made to look cool and eat shit
<ashkitten> like me
<joepie91> lol
<sphalerite> hehe
<sphalerite> is there any technical reason why SSH hasn't been replaced by some TLS+SASL sort of thing?
<gchristensen> you could use certs instead of SSH keys
<__monty__> Isn't tcp a problem when sending char-by-char?
<__monty__> As in too much overhead/slow.
<__monty__> How does Mosh work its magic?
<sphalerite> __monty__: ssh uses tcp ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<sphalerite> but yeah mosh uses udp
<__monty__> Ah, yes, I thought there was something about ssh not handling characters efficiently. But otoh you wouldn't want to lose a character in a command.
<__monty__> Are there maybe reasons to keep ssh really low in the stack of abstractions? Or is tls not even a layer up?
<gchristensen> ssh can, I think, send packets at different rates depending on whatyou're doing (typing, tailing abig file, etc.)
<__monty__> And why sasl?
<gchristensen> I think the answer is SSH is easy to setup, easy to secure, and easy to use safely
<gchristensen> and if you've ever setup TLS certs, it is none of those things
<sphalerite> gchristensen: well, self-signed certs are easy enough, and equivalent to ssh's model AFAIU
<sphalerite> __monty__: to support multiple authentication mechanisms, as ssh does.
<gchristensen> I can't remember how to make a self-signed SSL cert, even though I've done it a hundred times
<gchristensen> a user friendly replacement should at least match `ssh-keygen` level of simplicity
<sphalerite> sure, I don't think this TLS+SASL sort of thing actually already exists :p
<gchristensen> you can use TLS certs for SSH
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<infinisil> Damn, BostonDynamics is getting ready for robot revolution: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlkCQXHEgjA
<__monty__> Does spot have many real real-world applications though?
<samueldr> mapping rough terrain
<samueldr> mapping inside buildings too
<__monty__> For like disasters, sure. But otherwise? Expensive way to map stuff imo.
<samueldr> but you forgot about the most important part, __monty__
<samueldr> fun!
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<samueldr> look at the robodoggo sniffing around
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<pie_> something something military uses
<pie_> stick some guns on it, watch it sprint through a building at 60 mph and wreck everything
<pie_> i mean, i dunno
<pie_> drones man
<samueldr> I figure the big difference compared to flying drones, is that running drones may be able to carry more?
<pie_> idk, theres probably some publically reachable articles that go into why it may or may not be worth it but im too distracted to try searchoing
<pie_> and not clever enough to try to figure it out myself :P
<samueldr> or not distracted enough?
<pie_> hehe
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<tokudan> gchristensen, just for clarification: there is basically no difference between an ssh key (host or user) and a tls key. just with ssh the users are skilled enough that they can accept a "paste this into .ssh/authorized_keys" and have learned how to accept a new ssh host key.
<gchristensen> right
<tokudan> the only complicated stuff is the one that admins need to do to make it useable for "normal users" :)
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<gchristensen> cool, you use certs instead of ssh keys?
<tokudan> no :)
<gchristensen> but you have?
<tokudan> also no
<gchristensen> oh
<tokudan> but there is no difference between the keys for ssh and key used e.g. by nginx
<tokudan> nginx just expects to also have a certificate
<tokudan> and the webbrowser on the other side expects it as well
<gchristensen> of course
<tokudan> but in theory https could work just the same as ssh with the usual tofu (trust on first use) policy
<gchristensen> sure
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<ashkitten> parsers are the best huh
<ashkitten> i wonder if it's both including and excluding that number from the results at different steps
<ashkitten> bc the - excludes
<samueldr> at this point I think the developers of the search engine just let an AI with engagement metrics "optimize" itself
<joepie91> samueldr: lol good job, you broke Google
<samueldr> "oh look, when we move results through a slow animation people click on that new feature; that new feature must be loved!"
<samueldr> meanwhile "NO I NEVER INTENDED TO CLICK THERE"
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<ivan> heh good stuff samueldr
<samueldr> good would be the search engine not dropping search terms
<samueldr> when I put obscure combination of two words, I want the two words to be used
<ivan> old-time users and googlers have probably just trained themselves to not to include the -
<samueldr> hm?
<samueldr> see, I knew about that "-" removing the word, thus the "oops" written out
<tazjin> samueldr: I'll report that as a bug
<samueldr> oh, thanks
<ashkitten> and then there's duckduckgo which i desperately want to be usable but seems to have a terrible algorithm
<ashkitten> i never find what i want via duckduckgo if it's in any way obscure
<ivan> duckduckgo is bing
<samueldr> not exactly
<samueldr> the results didn't match
<ivan> they generally match for me
<samueldr> though from what I've researched some time ago, ddg supposedly uses bing *in addition* to other sources
<gchristensen> I can do 95% of my searches happily in ddg, and if I can't find it, off to google
<ashkitten> i thought ddg used a custom algorithm and crawler based on bing but not actually using bing itself
<samueldr> these days I rarely find stuff with google as I would expect
<samueldr> pages I know are indexed
<samueldr> they aren't returned in some searches
<samueldr> and are in some others
<samueldr> just today I found more results using *github*'s search engine rather than google :/
<samueldr> more *relevant* results
<ashkitten> i just feel weird when i type some search terms into google and then later some related but ambiguous search that could be about multiple topics and it returns what im looking for even though it's not the most popular topic by that name
<ashkitten> i wish there was a search engine that actually worked *and* respected my privacy
<samueldr> i wish there was a search engine that actually worked
<ashkitten> yeah...
<joepie91> samueldr: in the past year or so I've started seeing complaints about Google's results *everywhere*
<joepie91> I still don't know what they've changed
<joepie91> or whether they realize how much they fucked it up
<joepie91> just out of the blue, everybody, in all kinds of communities, started complaining
<samueldr> I'm generally leading trends :) I think it's been about 1.5~2 years in my close circle
<samueldr> though it is getting even worse
<samueldr> and maybe I had some high standards + search pattern usage
<ashkitten> samueldr, trendsetter
<samueldr> look
<samueldr> I'm working hard on my next trend
<samueldr> give me 1~2 years
<ashkitten> will it be passe by then?
<samueldr> it will be "the future" by then :D
<ashkitten> i don't want to invest in something that's going to fade out in a couple months
<samueldr> runnin nixos on your phone never will be passé :)
<samueldr> droppin Gs from words either
<ashkitten> shit i want it
<tazjin> I want my phone to do less :|
<samueldr> *literally* working on it
<samueldr> well, not what tazjin said
<tazjin> ideally it'd be a 3-4 inch thing with an eInk display that can do twitter, email & spotify
<samueldr> but currently it does what tazjin said
<samueldr> it does less :D
<tazjin> had a dream about a modern flip phone once
<tazjin> v. sad after waking up
<samueldr> there are bad options based on KaiOS
<ashkitten> imagine if upstream linux ran on mediatek devices
<samueldr> (tried it)
<samueldr> but apparently in the east japanese keitai fashion means there still are "new" flip phones
<ashkitten> apparently cosmo communicator will only run debian and kali, like the gemini pda did. and it won't have telephony on linux either, only android and sailfish ;-;
<samueldr> if bootloader unlocked + sources available was a certainty I would gladly import one
<samueldr> ashkitten: aww
<samueldr> ashkitten: though if it works for android + sailfish there *may* be ways
<ashkitten> i'm still buying it because android is enough for me, and i figure there's a chance for more
<ashkitten> also i already bought it so
<ashkitten> lol
<samueldr> something about using halium (iirc) in a container to run the android userland utilities
<samueldr> it's something I will probably need to investigate
<ashkitten> and you could grab the firmware blobs from android i guess
<ashkitten> if i could run nixos on the cosmo communicator with telephony services... i'd fucking die of joy
<samueldr> from android or even sailfish
<samueldr> they're likely to be the same
<ashkitten> or debian and kali, right?
<samueldr> though, did planet computers release the kernel sources?
<ashkitten> unsure
<samueldr> well, if they don't have telephony they might not have the blobs/binaries
<ashkitten> oh yeah
<ashkitten> honestly tho telephony is second to actually running nixos on it, iirc the kernel needs a bunch of stuff to even run on mediatek socs?
<samueldr> ashkitten: maybe possible
<ashkitten> nixos is at least a step up from debian and kali ^-^
<joepie91> grumble. people who, when you ask them to make a coherent argument, make half an argument and then go "HAHA DON'T YOU EVEN UNDERSTAND THE OTHER HALF YOURSELF" or equivalent indignance
<joepie91> I really can't stand people who do this
<samueldr> if I had an MTK target with kernel sources released I would be able to tell more
<ashkitten> ye
<joepie91> (of course their argument is generally shaky as all hell and that's why they're refusing to state it explicitly)
<samueldr> last MTK phone I got the OEM obviously didn't want to release the sources, smdh
<samueldr> and no recourse available, especially considering it's a chinese OEM
<samueldr> though even with N/A there's no recourse
<ashkitten> idk if planet released the sources..
<samueldr> Alcatel support just stonewalled
<samueldr> ashkitten: they did for the gemini
<ashkitten> that's good
<samueldr> that's the link from their wiki I shared
<ashkitten> then i assume they'll release for the cosmo after it ships
<samueldr> alcatel said they don't have a software or legal division
<samueldr> and I believe them
<samueldr> "alcatel"
<ashkitten> (hopefully this next month!!)
<samueldr> the TCL front :/
<samueldr> not alcatel-lucent, the "real" alcatel :/
<samueldr> they're even violating the GPLv3
<joepie91> <freenode_sam "alcatel said they don't have a s"> I'm sorry what
<joepie91> they don't have a software division?
<samueldr> support said
<samueldr> though I think they don't
<joepie91> so who makes the software?
<samueldr> it's TCL
<samueldr> a company that buys rights to brands
<joepie91> oh, you mean that the front doesn't have a software/legal division?
<samueldr> blackberry is now a TCL brand
<samueldr> yeah
<joepie91> (but TCL does)
<joepie91> yeah okay that makes more sense lol
<samueldr> that's my interpretation
<samueldr> but
<samueldr> support said they just don't
<joepie91> I'd frankly just go "that's not my problem, you are in violation, sort it out"
<samueldr> it's likely other KaiOS devices too are infringing the GPLv3
<samueldr> joepie91: that's basically what I sai
<samueldr> said*
<samueldr> though to them it just means they close the issue in their CRM
<samueldr> see
<samueldr> the issue is closed
<joepie91> (also I'd probably use scary legal-y sounding terms)
<samueldr> I did
<joepie91> and they still closed it?
<samueldr> yeah
<joepie91> oh wow.
<joepie91> they really do not care then :P
<samueldr> exactly
<joepie91> usually the scary legal words make companies go "oh huh wait we need to do something with this"
<joepie91> time for a lawsuit maybe
<joepie91> seems like it might be an easy win
<gchristensen> joepie91: ping armijn
<samueldr> though it'd need the copyright holders to do it
<samueldr> *though* there's busybox in there
<joepie91> samueldr: aye
<joepie91> gchristensen: ?
<samueldr> and I think they previously did sue other makers
<samueldr> the only GPLv3 artifact I could see was a swedish dictionary from mozilla