gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
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<samueldr> fun! everything usb just... stopped working
<samueldr> it *may* be because of shenanigans
<samueldr> dang it, I now need a non-nixos physical linux machine to verify something :/
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<gchristensen> who has anything like that anymore?
<samueldr> unlucky people
<samueldr> (I still haven't started setting a machine up :/)
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<gchristensen> I'm compiling my minor alacritty patch a fourth time hoping it is finally correct
* samueldr hope unetbootin will be enough
<gchristensen> ,botsnack
<{^_^}> Oh thanks, have a cookie yourself
<qyliss> gchristensen++
<{^_^}> gchristensen's karma got increased to 151
<qyliss> oh, and because I remember trying to do this a few days ago when the bot was on holiday: zimbatm++
<{^_^}> zimbatm's karma got increased to 11
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<samueldr> using that live linux session is like using another person's computer
<samueldr> simply horrible
<gchristensen> :D
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<etu> > "foo"
<{^_^}> "foo"
<eyJhb> gchristensen: waaaait, are you back?
<eyJhb> Hahah, nice one etu :D
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<etu> yay, gchristensen is back, world starting to realign with reality :)
<etu> Also, todays news is quite big: https://www.fsf.org/news/richard-m-stallman-resigns
<srhb> Yeah, maybe the RMS fandom will finally collapse.
<eyJhb> srhb: I don't think you will be that lucky, sorry :p I have such a fanboy at uni.
<etu> srhb: It may reduce a bit? At least not grow?
<eyJhb> But.. I could get bigger than ever, couldn't it?
<etu> People does weird things. I'm not going to predict peoples reactions :D
<etu> Not in this case at least
<etu> I just know that I thought that FSF would die with RMS.
<etu> And that I would see that day happen during my lifespan.
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<eyJhb> Waiting for a reply from my friend :p
<eyJhb> srhb: can you look at #68850? :D
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/68850 (by eyJhb, 1 day ago, open): purple-slack: Init at 2019-08-18
<eyJhb> GOod bot!
<srhb> eyJhb: I can tonight. Not at work. :)
<eyJhb> Aww :( But probably the best solution :p
<eyJhb> Btw. I found out yesterday, that you were responsible for one of the biggest knowledge databases in DK srhb !
<srhb> eyJhb: HN? It's been many years... :P
<srhb> How did you find that out anyway :P
<eyJhb> Of course HN :D All questions lead to there some way :p - Your linkedin
<eyJhb> I think I somewhat outed myself to a quick stalking
<srhb> Oh, I forgot I referred to that. :P
<eyJhb> Do not ever delete that, I would totally hire you based on that :p I think it is awesome!
<srhb> lol, thanks :P
<eyJhb> How old were you at the time?
<srhb> I think I was 15 when I started or something like that?
<eyJhb> Sys admin for hestenettet at 15?
<eyJhb> Did you start HN?
<srhb> Initially mostly php hacking, then sysadminning.
<srhb> I did not.
<srhb> It's pretty old. Initially it was a static website where people sent in e-mails and someone manually updated the page.
<eyJhb> Ahh okay.. Was PHP your first language then?
<eyJhb> Oh.. Never knew that
<srhb> Either that or perl, I can't recall :P
<eyJhb> Which of the two have the biggest place in your heart? That is how I usually tell :p
<srhb> I mean I really dislike them both... I probably dislike PHP more than Perl :P
<srhb> But that's PHP from many years ago, so who knows!
<eyJhb> Well, most people do.. But if I want access to a sites backend, then I really really like PHP :D
<eyJhb> PHP is still very very funky
<eyJhb> But 7.x tries/fixes many things, but it is still... "fun"
<srhb> These days when I'm not doing Nix or bash, my only go-to for general purpose stuff is Haskell.
<eyJhb> Never done a single Haskell line in my life, as far as I know...
<eyJhb> Or I might have made a patch at some point. Never really gotten the appeal of it :/
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<sphalerite> eyJhb: for me, the appeal is that 95% of the time when I write some incorrect code, the compiler will tell me it's incorrect, rather than compiling it into incorrect machine code.
<sphalerite> plus the way that given the type of a function or value, I can know what that function/value is able to do as far as side effects are concerned.
<eyJhb> sphalerite: seems like somewhat the same reasons why I like writing my things in Golang too! Also, because it has all the nice formatting, vetting, unused code etc
<eyJhb> And it just works 99% of the time, if it can compile. I don't need to debug it a thousand times like Python
<sphalerite> go doesn't have the second property though :p
<eyJhb> sphalerite: second property?
<sphalerite> given the type of a function or value, I can know what that function/value is able to do as far as side effects are concerned.
<eyJhb> Can you give a exmample? Google is not helpful
<sphalerite> a function of type (Int -> Int) will take an integer and give back an integer. And not be able to open files, sockets, etc in the process
<sphalerite> *caveat: unsafePerformIO exists, but is strongly frowned upon and thankfully basically never used
<eyJhb> So, because of the function definition, input -> output, you are not allowed to do IO operations?
<eyJhb> Unless unsafePerformIO is used?
<sphalerite> yes
<sphalerite> You can have a function of the type (Int -> IO Int), which can do IO
<sphalerite> oh and "IO" includes mutating program state
<eyJhb> That is actually quite nice
<eyJhb> Does Haskell easily cross-compile to Windows, Linux, Mac?
<sphalerite> or more precisely, (Int -> IO Int) takes an integer and gives back an IO action, which isn't necessarily performed though.
<sphalerite> Not sure, haven't looked into it.
<sphalerite> I think IOHK are cross-compiling haskell to windows using nix
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<eyJhb> Sounds quite nice, but is isn't something I have missed so far (but that might be because I have never heard of it)
<sphalerite> :)
<eyJhb> But I will probably stick with Go for now, love how easy it is, and how small a footprint you can get + the build in tools are lovely
<eyJhb> And multithreading/goroutines are lovely as well :D
<ar> eyJhb: what do you mean by small footprint?
<sphalerite> *coughexceptfortheirusabilityfornixcough*
<eyJhb> ar: I think I should more put it as, I can compile it into a exec file, which means the server doesn't need to have Python, Java, etc. installed => I can have a very minimal install :)
<eyJhb> sphalerite: Userbility in Nix? :p How?
<ar> yeah, that's true. but the binaries are anything but small ;)
<sphalerite> eyJhb: I mean the built-in tools (or rather the packaging stuff) isn't that great for working with nix
<eyJhb> ar: yeah, wrong wording :p I was more, I can have a minimal footprint on the server. E.g. Docker...
<eyJhb> Well, haven't had troubles so far :p But, you might have something specific in mind
<sphalerite> eyJhb: when building a go program with nix, it will build all the dependencies every time, rather than having a derivation per library, the way the various go package generators currently work
<eyJhb> Ahh, so, when you actually use Go for making packages?
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<sphalerite> when packaging go software with nix
<eyJhb> I have never done that so far :p Nix+Go doesn't play along on my laptop as it is... I can't run the unstable, because it always tries to use the homeless shelter
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<manveru> i'm using go+nix just fine...
<andi-> Go is amongst those things that just work like elsewhere
<eyJhb> manveru: Works just fine, the only thing that annoys me is the weird thing that it cannot use unstable, but that is specific to my laptop for some reason
<manveru> dunno about that, i use 1.12 from unstable...
<eyJhb> Yeah, most do, and I hate mine cannot for some reason
<eyJhb> Probably a stupid mistake from my part
<eyJhb> But everything else, that I overlay works fine
<eyJhb> Lets try again
<eyJhb> manveru: `failed to initialize build cache at /homeless-shelter/.cache/go-build: mkdir /homeless-shelter: permission denied` :(
<manveru> that's not an error though...
<eyJhb> If you any idea why manveru, I would appreciate it :)
<manveru> huh
<manveru> so... you tried to set the default go to 1.12 and build docker with it?
<eyJhb> Using `nixpkgs.overlays = [(self: super: { go = unstablePkgs.go; })];`
<eyJhb> Is what I am using, and then rebuild
<manveru> i don't think that's a good idea
<eyJhb> How would you go about it?
<manveru> well, i never install it globally
<eyJhb> It works for every other application I have, just Go doesn't like it that way.. :/ - So a local install of Go?
<manveru> and even if i did, i would do something like: `goNixpkgs = import (...) { overlays = [ ... ]; }`, and install go from that, leave the normal nixpkgs for your system alone
<manveru> so then you just put `environment.systemPackages = [ goNixpkgs.go ];`, which makes sure other packages aren't affected
<manveru> since you can't guarantee that all of your old nixpkgs works with the new go
<manveru> but either way, usually nix-shell is the way to go :)
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<eyJhb> manveru: I am ensure what to put in import, and overlays.. :p But it does make sense yes :)
<manveru> `goNixpkgs = import <nixpkgs-unstable> { overlays = [ (self: super: { go = self.go_1_12; }) ]; }`
<manveru> for example
<manveru> you can import from fetchTarball if you don't want to use channels, or use `niv` to manage it that way... lots of options so i put the dots there :)
<eyJhb> Thanks manveru , will look at it! :D
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<eyJhb> When you run your own mail server etc. what if the mail server goes down, and you need access to your email to get it up? Considering rolling my own out, but I just hate that scenario.. Also, SPD, DKIM, etc.?
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<eyJhb> Just saw that you sphalerit run your own fx. :p
<sphalerite> eyJhb: fx?
<sphalerite> eyJhb: > you need access to your email to get it up
<sphalerite> how does that scenario occur?
<manveru> email-based 2fa for ssh... is the only thing i can think of :P
<__monty__> Email-based 2fa sounds terrible.
<manveru> jup
<manveru> but what other scenario would do that :P
<__monty__> Your server host sends payment info by email?
<etu> Some websites (may be hosting providers) may require you to validate your email by clicking a link to reach the dashboard? :D
<eyJhb> DigitalOcean requires this
<eyJhb> Or if you are stupid enough to loose your password to the Dashboard and need reset link
<eyJhb> DigitalOcean does 2FA e-mail, if you don't have anything else
<eyJhb> Also, combine the tragedies of loosing your phone+your email sever goes down?
<eyJhb> Is that too many "if"s?
<infinisil> eyJhb: If you have control over the DNS records (and reverse records) you can start a new mail server
<infinisil> I think
<eyJhb> Yeah, but in the meanwhile, then you can't do much :/ I might just be overthinking it
<eyJhb> Just seems like so much can go wrong
<infinisil> If you want to be extra sure, run two different servers
<infinisil> Not sure how to orchestrate this nicely though
<gchristensen> that is what MX priorities are for
<eyJhb> Yeah...
<eyJhb> But whare are your experiences with running your own mail server?
<__monty__> Welcome back from vacay, gchristensen?
<gchristensen> thank you :)
<infinisil> eyJhb: Pretty good so far
<infinisil> I did have to unlist my server's ip from a whole lot of block lists though
<eyJhb> infinisil: which provider?
<infinisil> DigitalOcean
<gchristensen> ouch yeah
<infinisil> It's pretty random whether you'll get an ip on a blocklist or not
<gchristensen> with DO I'm surprised you got it unblacklisted at all
<infinisil> The unblocking process is in 90% of cases fully automatic
<infinisil> Sometimes I had to send a message explaining my situation
<infinisil> But I got it unblocked in all public lists
<infinisil> (and even a private list after finding out I couldn't send mail to a @gmx address)
<eyJhb> infinisil: how many is that (~)?
<infinisil> Maybe ~10
<gchristensen> gmx?
<infinisil> @gmx.ch
<eyJhb> gchristensen: btw. where did you go for your hollidays?
<gchristensen> I go to a little cabin in eastern Massachusetts without computers, internet, cell phones, or electricity :)
<eyJhb> Alone?
<gchristensen> with family
<eyJhb> Ah, I have no clue where you are in your life, so.. :D
<gchristensen> different parts of extended family come through the cabin over the two weeks -- it is cool. probably see ~20 different family members
<etu> gchristensen: Welcome back, hope you had a good time ^^,
<gchristensen> I did :) thank you!
<eyJhb> gchristensen: sounds nice! I am going to a family trip in two weeks, with all the family pretty much. So we will be around 50-60 people
<__monty__> gchristensen: That sounds a lot like a horror movie setup. And considering you're the one who survived... Hey, just a little non sequitur, serial axe murderers are an FBI thing, not a local PD thing, right?
<eyJhb> Just sad that it is only for the weekend, and I am going to return to Aalborg saturday, because of this Obama visit...
<eyJhb> __monty__: => do not trust gchristensen , as he is the only one who survived that we know of
<gchristensen> :P
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* tilpner reads 19.09 release notes *after* switching
* tilpner should learn to do that before upgrading
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<manveru> tilpner: it's not even out yet... where did you find the notes?
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<tilpner> manveru: In the repo, nixos/doc/manual/release-notes/rl-1909.xml
<manveru> ah, thx :)
<manveru> why xml tho...
* manveru silently weeps
* manveru builds the docs...
<tilpner> Just read the source :c
<tilpner> And wow, typing in alacritty feels terrible
<tilpner> I had to switch from st, because the noto fonts were added to 19.09 by default
<tilpner> (Which causes crashes in st)
<tilpner> But I'm not sure I can stand this latency
<qyliss> latency in alacritty?
<tilpner> Yes, it's horrible
<qyliss> do you have opengl on and stuff?
<qyliss> and a computer capable of the version of it alacritty wants?
<tilpner> Theoretically yes
<__monty__> tilpner: Maybe try kitty?
<tilpner> :(
<emily> is there any good reason the nixos manual isn't in asciidoc? it's literally the same semantic model as docbook so it can be freely intermingled and is no lress expressive
<emily> and it's something that people can actually stand writing
<emily> *no less
<tilpner> __monty__: This is why I didn't try kitty in the past: https://bugs.launchpad.net/calibre/+bug/1714107
<tilpner> (Same dev)
<manveru> my gripe with kitty is https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/469 ... but i still use it
<{^_^}> kovidgoyal/kitty#469 (by kovidgoyal, 1 year ago, closed): kitten for IME input
<__monty__> tilpner: I know kovid is difficult. But kitty's served me very well.
<__monty__> Kovid's also pretty quick to act on issue reports. (as long as you can convince him it's actually a bug)
<__monty__> I guess I don't run into 496 because I make do with a compose key.
* emily doesn't have a wayland terminal choice she's satisfied with either
<emily> alacritty feels sluggish and doesn't have great emoji support, don't really trust kitty for aforementioned reasons, vte-based stuff is sluggish...
<__monty__> Another minor annoyance is that you always have to pretend your term is xterm-256color when sshing. But that's not quite kovid's fault.
<emily> mlterm seems to be pretty good if you can get it configured correctly, but it's the crashiest thing on earth while you attempt to figure out its extremely baroque configuration format
<__monty__> I actually like terminology, though I doubt EFL runs on wayland?
<emily> tilpner: hm, for some reason I was expecting the calibre privilege escalation bug where he claimed it was fine and required for user-friendliness and WONTFIXed it
<emily> a star of many stories, it seems
<__monty__> Imo the only problem with that particular LP issue is kovid thinking he can maintain py2 single-handedly.
<manveru> i'd love to see him try :)
<__monty__> That being said I haven't come across a better ebook library than calibre.
<tilpner> __monty__: I only meant that first comment
<tilpner> emily: So it's not just me! :/
<__monty__> Imo, personal dislike of a maintainer shouldn't keep you from trying out software if others recommend it *despite* their own issues with the maintainer.
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<tilpner> Well, I had no recommendations until you
<tilpner> It does feel faster than alacritty
<tilpner> I wonder if that's because or in spite of the libGL errors on startup
<emily> qterminal/konsole are pretty okay, fwiw
<emily> if qt is okay with you
<__monty__> Fwiw, I've ran a lot of terminals and most of the ones people like a lot kinda suck tbh. So you shouldn't expect any terminal to be perfect.
<__monty__> : )
<__monty__> gnome-terminal's probably the best of the vte terminals.
<__monty__> Xterm's actually pretty decent if you don't need many features.
<tilpner> I don't care for the suckless philosophy, or the "you need to apply this patch for scrollback", but it was snappy and did all I needed. Without crashes, until noto
<__monty__> terminology and kitty are nice when it comes to UX but aren't small (pretty small memory footprint still) and have other issues.
<tilpner> (Well, text reflow would have been nice, st doesn't do that)
<__monty__> I haven't really bothered checking out st because I'd like to install a terminal, not a ton of programs that together make up a terminal.
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<__monty__> Yeah, I haven't had latency affect my terminal usage.
<__monty__> I often work on decade old hardware over ssh though.
<emily> tilpner: this graph is what started my quixotic attempts at using mlterm
<tilpner> emily: Are you still using it?
<emily> nope, gave up and switched back to alacritty because it was too hard to configure the font setup how I wanted
<emily> but maybe you'll have better luck
<emily> it has better Unicode and RTL support than ~anything out there I think
<tilpner> I tried mlterm ages ago, for its sixel support
<tilpner> But it crashed a few times, and so...
<tilpner> Currently trying qterminal. Weird config, but feels faster than alacritty too
<tilpner> And it can be made to hide all the fancy extras
<tilpner> Not sure how I feel about state=@ByteArray(\0\0\0\xff\0\0\0\0\xfd\0\0\0\x1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\xfc\x2\0\0\0\x1\xfb\0\0\0&\0\x42\0o\0o\0k\0m\0\x61\0r\0k\0s\0\x44\0o\0\x63\0k\0W\0i\0\x64\0g\0\x65\0t\0\0\0\0\0\xff\xff\xff\xff\0\0\0s\0\xff\xff\xff\0\0\x1\xdf\0\0\x4&\0\0\0\x4\0\0\0\x4\0\0\0\b\0\0\0\b\xfc\0\0\0\0) in qterminal.ini
* tilpner can't afford to be too picky
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<__monty__> Kitty has its own image protocol and ranger supports it. So obviously you should stick with kitty : >
<infinisil> Daaaaamn that guy knows his Diabolo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h43vmAyzTgs
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<__monty__> Thanks for sharing, that's an impressive skill level.
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<elvishjerricco> I've got this app on my iPad that makes for a great dnd character sheet editor that also automates stuff like leveling up and applying modifiers to rolls. But it's not open source and therefore neither is the file format. Anyone know of anything like that for Linux?
<ldlework> Anyone into modular synthesis?
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<pie_> <pie_> i have the dumbest problems
<pie_> <pie_> every time i want to get sometihg done shi like this ahppens
<pie_> <pie_> i woke the machine up from sleep and it was like this
<pie_> <pie_> i caan press shift but that sucks for obvious reasons
<pie_> <pie_> *CRIES*
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<pie_> ok i had my cap lock turned into a ctrl key and apparently i forgot, no idea how it even turned on tho...
<joepie91> that sounds like my kind of problem
<pie_> joepie91: ithink of you every time
<pie_> still no idea why firefox was unaffected
<joepie91> :P