<samueldr>
memory issues, like fragmentation and garbage collection not happening can be fixed with this one weird trick!
<lukegb>
I can't help but feel like describing it as rebooting is a bit grand
<samueldr>
yeah
<lukegb>
it feels more like exec() to me
<samueldr>
yep
<lukegb>
it's interesting though - there are some older PC game engines that literally quit the main game executable between levels
<lukegb>
I'm thinking of Deus Ex: Invisible War (aka the... less-loved... brother) in particular, which was notorious for this
<lukegb>
partly because some of their level layouts were such that you had two full loads within seconds of each other as you crossed a relatively small room
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<hodapp>
to be fair it was "normal" on PC to have to go through the keyboard controller to access memory over 1 MB
<ldlework>
Would anyone disagree that an OK conceptual vista for Topology is: performing operations on connected things such that you don't fundamentally change the ways in which those things are connected?
<aleph->
I would not, no
<ldlework>
siraben thinks that if you hold this conception of topology then you have "no idea whatsoever" what Topology is. Curious.
<ldlework>
I contend it's possible to have this conception, say some formally inaccurate things about Topology, and still have "some idea whatsoever" about what Topology is about.
<aaronjanse>
Is this something from DMs or channel history?
<ldlework>
Different context entirely!
<ldlework>
But I don't know many mathmaticians, and functional programmers seem to be a proximation maybe.
<pie_>
gchristensen: re: the button being misaligned, you could say it fits the scribbly look :P
<siraben>
ldlework: anyone can agree that definition of (the field of) topology is fine, but in claiming X or Y is a topology (i.e. topological space), the burden of proof (even a conceptual one) is on the person who claimed it
<ldlework>
that's covered in the "say some formally inaccurate things about Topology"
<siraben>
given a set there are many topologies that can be imposed on it, and the properties of the top. spaces vary wildly, thus there is no singular "topology" on a set
<ldlework>
not sure how you get there to "understanding nothing whatsoever" about topology
<siraben>
this detail is needed to be in agreement that we are in fact talking about the same thing
<ldlework>
which you've doubled down on several times now
<ldlework>
"this detail is needed" contradicts "This is an OK vista of topology even though you might say some formally wrong things about it"
<siraben>
but the bigger question here is, why are you attempting to harass me here, publicly, in a completely different community?
<siraben>
I refuse to reply regarding this topic further.
<ldlework>
i regret pining you specifically
<ldlework>
i was earnestly interested if anyone shared your narrow threshold for when you start to understand anything whatsoever
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<thibm>
> let f = { a, b ? 0 } @ args: args; in f { a = 1; }
<{^_^}>
{ a = 1; }
<thibm>
:(
<pie_>
thibm: yes :(
<pie_>
i also find that quite irritating
<thibm>
Totally
<thibm>
I had something so elegant and I'll need to do something ugly
<pie_>
yes
<aaronjanse>
> let f = args @ { a, b ? 0 }: args; in f { a = 1; }
<{^_^}>
{ a = 1; }
<aleph->
Let the ugly hacks consume you thibm
<aleph->
Fall to the dark side
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<thibm>
Nooooooooooooooooooo
<thibm>
aaronjanse: nice try
<thibm>
I don't know if it's on purpose or not. I think this can be useful sometimes
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<aaronjanse>
You can do args // { inherit b; }, right?
<aaronjanse>
Still uglier
<thibm>
aaronjanse: yes but I have 18 of such arguments
<thibm>
I can generate that automatically
<thibm>
but it's ugly
<thibm>
I was trying to do quite simple Nix code because a non nixer will read it
<thibm>
it's one argument bound to a variable name…
<thibm>
thanks sterni
<pie_>
sterni: hm were you using it for something?
<pie_>
obviously i saw something somewhere :P
<sterni>
well I tried to fix the lib.generators.toPretty problem due to that (unsuccessfully)
<pie_>
ahh
<pie_>
righti was doing something with topretty and thats how i saw that
<pie_>
im so confused
<pie_>
does * not show the files in the current directory?
<pie_>
so after i do cd extra-container-src , how does * end up expanding to extra-container-src ?
<pie_>
there is not another nested extra-container-src
<thibm>
a typo, so cd did not change directory? two nested extra-container-src diretories/files?
<pie_>
cd _cant_ be failing
<pie_>
but thats my other hypothesis...
<pie_>
except the ls right after it shows the contents of the directory
<thibm>
cd+ls done in a subshell?
<pie_>
im an idiot x)
<pie_>
for f in *; do corepkgs="${pkgs.nix}/share/nix/corepkgs" substituteAllInPlace "$i"; done
<pie_>
i used the wrong variable which presumable already existed in the environment
<thibm>
(Oh, another thing frustrating with nixpkgs, substitute* are function and you cannot easily use them with find)
<pie_>
hm
<sterni>
you can probably just use the thing its based on
<sterni>
it just invokes a normal binary iirc
<thibm>
Yes. Or I found a solution in stdenv/generic/setup.sh and some packages: find … -print0 | while IFS='' read -r -d '' x; do …
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<siraben>
Does anyone know why flakes don't work in git repos in paths with spaces?
<siraben>
Or is it just a macOS thing
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<pie_>
siraben: id expect half of nixpkgs to break with paths with spaces?
<pie_>
im not actually sure how disciplined we are with quoting
<supersandro2000>
the nix store cannot have spaces in its path
<supersandro2000>
because $out is never quoted and it is probably a good thing that it isn't allowed
<MichaelRaskin>
It's not really a good thing, but there are a few places where we want to do a loop over all the store paths in a shell environment variable…
<pie_>
im moderately sure bash lets you quote stuff properly forall the cases
<MichaelRaskin>
Do explicit arrays count?
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<pie_>
i dont know enough bash to say
<supersandro2000>
I think we would need to quote a lot like "$array[@]" and I rarely see this
<pie_>
i had to use $* for the first time the other day
<MichaelRaskin>
supersandro2000: we would need to change how Nix passes arrays to Bash, most likely
<supersandro2000>
and the bash code in nixpkgs itself most likely, too
<supersandro2000>
pie_: I think shellcheck tells me that most of the time
<supersandro2000>
if you are not already you should use it
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<siraben>
pie_: yeah but even in flakes spaces don't work
<siraben>
which is a WTF moment
<siraben>
I thought spaces in paths were a solved problem
<lukegb>
writing reliable shell scripts isn't a solved problem
<siraben>
why does this have to do with shell scripts?
<siraben>
like, a flake.nix in a git repo on a path with a space doesn't work
<siraben>
the error is mysterious to the user
<siraben>
s/why/what:
<pie_>
siraben: yes you are correct and i also observed the distinction but didnt make that clear
<siraben>
Ah right.
<eyJhb>
It is so nice. The previous place I lived assigned IPv6 addresses to all networks at that place, but none of them worked since they have disabled IPv6 higher up. Which means, much longer response times.
<arcnmx>
could anyone kick me from #nixos please :<
<hexa->
^ gchristensen
<gchristensen>
sure
<gchristensen>
arcnmx: why? :)
<hexa->
matrix-appservice-irc
<gchristensen>
ah
<arcnmx>
yay
<infinisil>
Arguably the best way to generate a random number: shuf -i 1-100 -n 1
<infinisil>
gchristensen: ^ (you might be interested in this)
<infinisil>
Can also generate multiple (pass -r for allowing repeats): shuf -i 1-100 -n 10 -r
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<abathur>
not sure what the context iss, but I guess bash can compete on speed for fairly small n per invocation, and for some weird uses a loadable builtin might have a goldilocks zone
<aleph->
infinisil: Good to know. I'll have to use that in some scripts
<cransom>
is running shuffle faster than echo $((RANDOM % 100)) ?
<infinisil>
cransom: abathur: In my case I required a 32-bit number, and with shuf that's possible: `shuf -i 0-4294967295 -n 1`
<infinisil>
(32-bit unsigned)
<infinisil>
Whereas bash's RANDOM doesn't go that high
<infinisil>
Also, modulo makes it less random
<abathur>
nod
<infinisil>
Interestingly, the maximum range for shuf is 0-18446744073709551614, which is 2^64-2
<infinisil>
I guess makes sense, the range is inclusive, it probably converts to an upper-bound exclusive range underneath
<infinisil>
Meaning [0,2^64-1[
<infinisil>
Can anybody recommend some diagram creation tool?
<infinisil>
Should be able to render to svg/png
<infinisil>
Need connections between nodes, labels on nodes and edges
<joepie91>
kinda surprised they renamed from draw.io to diagrams.net
<joepie91>
heh seems their business model is "we charge for use in atlassian software" and for everybody else it's free
<infinisil>
Lol
<pie_>
im kinda surprised that works tbh
<pie_>
but that just shows i have very little exposure to enterprise
<joepie91>
pie_: managers will pay large amounts of money for a button, so long as you put the button in the right place, with the right color, and sufficient marketing bulletpoints surrounding it
<infinisil>
Oh wow, I used diagrams.net before apparently
<joepie91>
I would not be surprised if "it costs money on the integrated atlassian extension store" (assuming such a thing exists) meets those criteria
<infinisil>
There's some overlay graphs in there I drew once!
<joepie91>
heh
<infinisil>
I was really confused for a second why they showed Nix as the default
<infinisil>
But yeah both diagrams.net and dia seem pretty nice, I think I'll go with diagrams.net, thanks hodapp and joepie91 :)
<MichaelRaskin>
I like VUE (Visual Understanding Environment) better than Dia
<MichaelRaskin>
Nobody has ever heard of it, and everyone who sees me use it and needs diagrams wants to try it out
<MichaelRaskin>
infinisil: ↑
<pie_>
ive seen vue
<pie_>
IIRC the UI was knda clunky
<pie_>
probably more to it than meets the eye
<MichaelRaskin>
Meeting the eye part is what I ever need, actually
<MichaelRaskin>
One just needs to learn how to use the rapid mode, and when not to use the rapid mode
<MichaelRaskin>
(I hope I am just trolling with no ground in reality about the latter)
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<__monty__>
Never is the time to not use the rapid mode. It's like the power setting on a vacuum, superfluous, because you always want MAX power!
<pie_>
if you can still scream you arent going fast enough
<__monty__>
Exactly, that's what the Dopler effect is all about.
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<pie_>
omg lol
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<cole-h>
currently wishing it was possible to cache each individual phase so I wouldn't have to build a large-ish project every time I change something in the install phase
<pie_>
you and everyone else
<pie_>
drives me nuts
<joepie91>
+1
<joepie91>
wonder if this could be done with a userspace overlay fs
<joepie91>
with a snapshot-esque system
<cole-h>
currently wishing nouveau wouldn't stall every once in a while out of thin air
<joepie91>
it must be the season
<joepie91>
I'm also suddenly having GPU lockups
<joepie91>
but AMD
<joepie91>
pretty predictably triggered by google maps sat view...
<joepie91>
(or well, webgl earth)
<cole-h>
it's probably a bug in sway / wayland, but I can't upgrade sway because of a bug that hasn't been fixed
<cole-h>
🙃
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<pie_>
sometimes i still wonder if other distros are less work
<gchristensen>
last time I thought that I installed Ubuntu and tried to get a few standard programs from the snaps store and immediately hit error messages about things being broken
<gchristensen>
(the snap store itself being broken)
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<samueldr>
last time I "just installed" ubuntu to try something to see if the issues I had were because of the distro was an horror
<samueldr>
well, "light" horror
<samueldr>
package updates being in a weird state mainly
<joepie91>
when using NixOS, Debian looks easier because it doesn't tell you "nope, cannot do that!" so much
<joepie91>
when using Debian, using NixOS looks easier because it doesn't break on you with mysterious errors so much
<joepie91>
curse of knowledge etc. etc. etc.
<pie_>
yeah
<pie_>
i mean, i havent used ubuntu for years but then i couldnt get teamviewer to work
<pie_>
so i put the not-latest ubuntu in a vm and proceeded to have to upgrade it because teamviewer wouldnt work on the slightly older one
<pie_>
fwiw upgrading the base image worked at least
<pie_>
there are some ...issues...but truly we are blessed xD
<samueldr>
what's interesting is that the issues are the flip side of the benefits
<joepie91>
samueldr: only to a point
<joepie91>
many of the issues are not fundamental
<joepie91>
but rather a consequence of a documentation or UX problem
<joepie91>
or at least the biggest part of many of the issues, is
<pie_>
anyway i didnt really mean to start this circlejerk again x) - not that theres anything wrong
<joepie91>
like, it's one thing to need to do an extra step because system purity requires it; but a whole other thing for that step to take 30-60 minutes of googling because the "how to do it" isn't obvious, even though the solution itself takes 10 seconds
<pie_>
woooo my dhcp container finally works in that its getting packets and i can restart it and stuff \o/
<pie_>
took me ilike 3 weeks geez
* joepie91
mumbles something about case in point
<pie_>
joepie91: i...that doesnt feel nix specific but maybe im weird
<pie_>
hahaha omg -*- joepie91 mumbles something about case in point
<joepie91>
pie_: it's not Nix-*specific* but it is both solvable and a present issue in Nix
<pie_>
im just very good at getting into yak shaves ;_;
<joepie91>
it just also is solvable and present in many other things :)
<pie_>
half of it was noone being able to tell me that ipvlan exists
<pie_>
though im not exactly good at posing clear questions a lot of the time either
<samueldr>
joepie91: I had in mind the "why can't I edit the store just for this file?" issue, which I see overriding and friends not "resolving" the issue and not "unresolving" the benefit
<samueldr>
not sure how to really better explain
<pie_>
for people that fiddle with their system a lot its a pretty high bar i think
<pie_>
idk, it feels like theres a lot of things that arent exactly trivial to change
<samueldr>
yep
<pie_>
ive only recently hit the point where digging in the code is in my comfort zone
<samueldr>
initially it was a struggle for me, but I also already had internalized the benefits
<samueldr>
(that was about editing system files)
<pie_>
like, i dont know what its like for the apparent mass of people that dont hang around here
<pie_>
but i imagine a lot of people are not like the usual faces
<pie_>
but idk x)
<samueldr>
yeah, I still remember the feelings of despair of knowing if I "just" could change this one file my issues/desires would be fulfilled
<pie_>
ok i just wrote some self documenting code by dropping a oneliner into a writeShellScriptBin in the containers systemPackages
<pie_>
that was kinda cool.
<joepie91>
samueldr: well, what I mean is that if the 'correct' solution is simple and obvious enough (not possible for all cases, but possible for many) then that feeling of despair will likely be absent
<joepie91>
because change a line in one file, change a line in another file, what's the difference
<joepie91>
the despair comes from "ugh I am going to have to wrestle with the tools for 30 minutes when I could've also changed one line if this were Ubuntu"
<pie_>
hmmm need an environment.overrideFile ?? 0_o
<pie_>
thats an idea actually?
<joepie91>
specifically the "wrestle with the tools" part
<pie_>
like its a terrible hack, but a self documenting terrible hack?
<samueldr>
sure, the benefit is not on the flip side of _despair_, it is on the flip side of the root cause of their despair
<pie_>
(and wil brea constantly if you try to patch something in the store because the paths will keep changing under you)
<nixusr>
I want to put my i3 and Xresources configuration into the configuration.nix, what is the best way to do it ?
<pie_>
nixusr: did you try searching the discourse?
<nixusr>
thanks, yeah it sucks no one gr8 way to do it
<pie_>
off the top of my head, using configuration.nix no matter what way you do it, forces you to rebuild your system when you want to make changes, if thats fine, ok
<pie_>
you could find some way to layer on top of that, which increases complexity
<pie_>
or you decouple from the system build, which i thik is what something like HM gets you
<infinisil>
But I think it would also be possible to adjust it to work with domain registrar API's or outputting manual steps
<eyJhb>
The joys of .com domains ... I have to get approved to do that for my .dk domain .
<infinisil>
eyJhb: Approved for/
<infinisil>
?
<eyJhb>
Each nameserver for a .dk domain needs to be approved. So if I want to change nameserver of eyjhb.dk, then I have to file a application and send it to dk-hostmaster.dk
<eyJhb>
Ehm
<eyJhb>
Change nameserver of eyjhb.dk to something not approved, ie. my own
<philipp[m]>
eyJhb: I'm pretty sure that there are providers that let you get around that.
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<eyJhb>
philipp[m]: .dk only has ONE :p
<eyJhb>
No one else besides dk-hostmaster.dk that can administer .dk domains
<joepie91>
aaronjanse: ooooo, project?
* joepie91
wants
<aaronjanse>
I've been working on it for the past few days. I hope to open source it next week
<eyJhb>
Also, once again infinisil.. Your minecraft on demand setup is... Very nice.
<eyJhb>
All the code behind it, very much more complicated.
<infinisil>
eyJhb: :D
<aaronjanse>
joepie91: I also want auto-complete for set attributes, so you can do pkgs.{start of name} then see a bunch of packages with their descriptions etc. And I also hope to do auto-complete arguments of functions like buildRustPackage
<infinisil>
Yeah, I strive to have things as modular as possible
<infinisil>
Making the topmost thing look really clean :D
<eyJhb>
BUT! I do miss the parameters you can give it?
<eyJhb>
Like, I can see them from the on-demand thing :p But a top level one would be nice
<eyJhb>
Also... That piece of code could easily live in its own repo. Very useful
<infinisil>
eyJhb: Unfortunately I was never able to fully test that code :P
<infinisil>
I just tested the thing I needed, but nothing more
<eyJhb>
What are you saying might blow up? :p
<infinisil>
So even though it technically supports many images, I've only tested it with one
<infinisil>
And it's super overengineered
<infinisil>
Jeez
<philipp[m]>
eyJhb: But somebody can have an approved nameserver that uses your nameserver as an authority nameserver for your domain? I have it set up that way with hetzner and my de domains.
<joepie91>
aaronjanse: please link me when it's available :)
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<infinisil>
eyJhb: What do you mean by missing the parameters?
<eyJhb>
Oh that might be true philipp[m] ! Didn't think of that
<eyJhb>
infinisil: It would be nice with just listing an example in the top of the files, ie. just setting in a exmaple from the minecraft on demand thing, on how to use it
<eyJhb>
So only ever tested it with your minecraft image? :p
<infinisil>
I see yeah
<infinisil>
And yup :)
<infinisil>
Having a repo for this, with tests and docs would be nice yeah
<infinisil>
But then again, many things would be nicer with tests and docs, but there's only so much time..
<infinisil>
*cough* nix *cough*
<eyJhb>
Sadly I cannot give you another hour in the day...
<infinisil>
s/nix/nixpkgs
<eyJhb>
I somewhat want to run my Go version of my MC proxy, with the "same" setup as you are running (systemd for uploading images, etc.)
<eyJhb>
Seeing a bunch of modifications/changes when I do a git status in my minecraft proxy is not.. THat nice