gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
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<DigitalKiwi> voldemort strikes again
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<DigitalKiwi> infinisil: is this better lovesegfault: "i want to turn a sentence into an acronym" me, channeling tony: "use lens" :D
<lovesegfault> who's tony?
<cole-h> the tiger, of course
<DigitalKiwi> tony morris/dibblego/voldemort
<cole-h> DigitalKiwi++ :D
<{^_^}> DigitalKiwi's karma got increased to 29
<elvishjerricco> samueldr: Well I don't mean changing the boot chain. Just installing a mac app on iPadOS
<samueldr> yeah, I wasn't replying to what you said, but to what many have thought
<samueldr> though I kind of think macOS apps on iOS are unlikely...
<samueldr> the plan is clearly enough to write iOS apps
* colemickens wonders how many others sway users shamelessy use the mouse for everything :P
<samueldr> don't be ashamed
<cole-h> I use the mouse for everything until I'm in kakoune :P
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<colemickens> clever: you don't have your hydra public do you? I'm having a heck of a time getting the last bit of declarative jobs to click into place
<colemickens> I've got a .jobsets job that produces a spec.json but hydra doesn't seem to do anything with it
<clever> colemickens: journalctl -f -u hydra-evaluator
<clever> it may have also moved to either hydra-queue-runner or hydra-notify
<clever> one of those 3 may have the error msg
<clever> colemickens: and each dir in here, produces a different spec.json for another project
<colemickens> yeah, that's what I've been going off of.
<clever> check those 3 journals, and see if it says anything
<clever> if you link the hydra, i can also look around
<colemickens> I'm not seeing any errors, it just evals and builds the spec.json and then doesn't seem to add the jobs from the spec.json.
<colemickens> clever: http://20.94.199.87:3000/ clever/clever will let you in
<colemickens> wait
<colemickens> what
<colemickens> now it works
<colemickens> -_- I bet there was something cached somewhere
<colemickens> oh well, anyway, thanks
<samueldr> colemickens: clever auth scheme
<colemickens> trying to make re-setup as easy as possible, that and the Fw isn't normally so permissive :P
<colemickens> I can't get it to work again, so baffling
<colemickens> the spec.json hash hasn't changed for the last hour, one time it worked, the rest not, quite confused.
<colemickens> ...
<colemickens> it seems you have to open the firewall for decalarative jobs to work
<colemickens> not cool
<colemickens> I didn't have to open the azure fw, but I did have to accept tcp 3000 (whereas previously just using nginx and allowing 80 was enough) :/
<colemickens> if hydra had tried to talk to itself over the vpn-ip/port then it should've worked
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<colemickens> eh, it might just be the extra restart triggered by switching the firewall :/
<colemickens> there we go, if I add the declarative project, then restart hydra-notify, it does the right thing. feels like that shouldnt be needed, but at least I can re-setup hydra with all of my jobs with a nice short script
<clever> colemickens: sounds like a bug in hydra-notify
<colemickens> as usual clever, thanks for the delightful example to learn/build from. I might or might not be using flakes to pull in your spec building lib.nix :P
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<clever> colemickens: this function gets ran every time a build in hydra finishes, and it deals with things like telling github the status of CI
<clever> if it was a jobset called .jobsets, it will do extra processing here
<colemickens> yeah, all I know is if I run this script without the extra hydra-notify restart, the the .jobset job runs and is not post-processed.
<colemickens> maybe it has to do with the fact that I'm adding it via api? but that doesn't really align with this executing automatically for all finished builds
<colemickens> ah there is a loop in here though: # Process builds that finished while hydra-notify wasn't running.
<colemickens> maybe my script calls the api, adds the project, runs the jobset, all before hydra-notify is finished starting up? idk
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<elvishjerricco> Huh, apparently I disabled autoOptimiseStore and forgot about it. Halfway done with a manual optimise and I've already reclaimed 7GiB. Not much but it's free y'know?
<elvishjerricco> `[74658 paths optimised, 22516.1 MiB / 1625587 inodes freed]` Nice. Though it's measuring apparent sizes; the actual disk usage as reported by `zfs get referenced` "only" decreased 13G.
<samueldr> xorriso : NOTE : -return_with SORRY 32 triggered by problem severity FAILURE
<samueldr> that's one way to report errors
<samueldr> though there's actually good information before it
<samueldr> so I'm not mad
<samueldr> I ran out of space... again... tonight
<cole-h> elvishjerricco: do you use nixUnstable?
<elvishjerricco> cole-h: Nope. Stable on 20.09 right now
<cole-h> ah ok
<cole-h> If you ever run nixUnstable and enable autoOptimiseStore, be aware of https://github.com/NixOS/nix/issues/4513
<{^_^}> nix#4513 (by oxalica, 11 weeks ago, open): Building wrong-hash FOD with auto-optimise-store on leaves writable files in store
<elvishjerricco> Oh that's weird
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<eyJhb> The USB3.x/USB4/Thunderbolt 4 is... Confusing. Or is that just me?
<MichaelRaskin> > USB > Confusing — now you are just repeating yourself
<{^_^}> error: syntax error, unexpected $undefined, expecting ')', at (string):494:17
<eyJhb> `The confusing/confusing/Thunderbolt 4 is... Confusing....`
<eyJhb> Much better
<MichaelRaskin> Confusion-version-3 / Confusion-version-4 / Confusion-but-different-version-4 is confusing.
<eyJhb> Ohh yeah, sorry
<eyJhb> But.. It seems like
<eyJhb> confusion-but-different-version-4 includes support for confusion-version-3 and confusion-version-4 + visual-confusion-version1-2
<MichaelRaskin> Confusion all around
<MichaelRaskin> Properly confusing confusion is confusing when you just try to list all the confusion
<eyJhb> Seems like Confusion-but-different-version-4 will provide what I want
<eyJhb> So now I can just... Silently want this - https://system76.com/laptops/lemur#specs
<eyJhb> Which will end up being around...
<eyJhb> > DKK 10000
<{^_^}> "34650100.000000 VND"
<eyJhb> > VND 34650100
<{^_^}> "1316.703800 EUR"
<eyJhb> > EUR 1316.7038
<{^_^}> "1316.703800 EUR = 9875.278500 DKK"
<eyJhb> It... Does not work that well :p
<srk> neat laptop.. `up to 14 hours of battery life` tho.. with idle i7?
<eyJhb> ,ping
<{^_^}> pong
<eyJhb> srk: Yeah, I don't expect that. BUT!
<eyJhb> I have heard the 11th gen intel should be fairly... Shit
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<srk> new ipad pro looks interesting, due to m1 and nice display. would be cool if it can run linux
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<hexa-> that would require them to provide the possibility to unlock the bootloader
<hexa-> sounds highly unlikely for the form factor
<MichaelRaskin> Strictly speaking, it would only require them to mess up locking the bootloader. Not guaranteed, but more likely than them doing something friendly towards un-blessed uses.
<srk> m1 mbp doesn't have a locked bootloader afaik, might be the case for pad as well
<Synthetica> I wouldn't put money on it
<sphalerite> The kernel shouldn't allow two routes in the same table with the same destination and the same metric, right?
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<hexa-> sphalerite: probably not
<sphalerite> hexa-: then I think we've discovered a kernel bug :D
<hexa-> sphalerite: just to satisfy my curiosity, can you paste the routes?
<LinuxHackerman> hexa-: ^ which should also spoil how the situation comes about :)
<hexa-> uh
<hexa-> different next hops
<hexa-> ecmp
<hexa-> lgtm
<hexa-> one static, one ra, also fine
<LinuxHackerman> then why can't this same route be added manually after removing it?
<hexa-> did you specify the weight?
<LinuxHackerman> there's a weight parameter which isn't visible in ip r's output?
<hexa-> metric even
<LinuxHackerman> yeah
<hexa-> both exist, idk :)
<hexa-> ok, so same weight is possible
<hexa-> looks like this: https://paste.lossy.network/MUUJ4
<sphalerite> that looks a bit different though, it's one route with multiple nexthops, no?
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<sphalerite> hexa-: yep, I can get that sort of thing by running ip r replace 2001:db8::/32 nexthop fe80::1 dev enp1s0 nexthop fe80::2 dev enp1s0
<sphalerite> hexa-: and the _route_ has a metric, the _nexthop_ has a weight
<hexa-> yep
<sphalerite> so that's not the same thing as having multiple routes with the same destination and metric
<hexa-> agreed
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<sphalerite> hexa-: https://gist.github.com/lheckemann/15cf1a6be26d442951cb0a09a0e50749 I wrote a nixos test that reproduces it and shows how oddly it behaves in terms of how packets are then routed, in case you're interested
<sphalerite> Would be glad for an opinion on whether this is a linux bug or not.
<hexa-> will take a look in a bit
<sphalerite> yeah no pressure :)
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<cransom> if i were a umn alumni, there'd be some nastygrams going out.
<eyJhb> Omg omg omg omg
<eyJhb> My Docker distribution PRs might finally get merged.
<cole-h> note: currently hard linking saves 55907.55 MiB
<cole-h> 👀
<philipp[m]> Can't wait for the "it was just art" excuse by umn.
<f0x> it was just a prank :p
<philipp[m]> Aren't we all just faulty code, when we truly think about it?
<eyJhb> What did I miss regarding UMN?
<gchristensen> hooboy
<eyJhb> Oh
<eyJhb> My
<eyJhb> God
<eyJhb> I love it. Some supervisor is really fucking pissed.
<srhb> Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
<eyJhb> First semester at uni, do not do stupid stuff publicly without asking the university.
<srhb> They did ask. Apparently the uni is stupid. Maybe they should be banned fro-- oh
<cransom> well, they reportedly did do that. papers that involve humans go to a board and they decide if it's appropriate, or what kind of sign off is required
<eyJhb> Jesus...
<eyJhb> That is so.. Incredible
<srhb> It is. :P
<eyJhb> I might be lazy/stupid
<eyJhb> But where are the actual commit/patches?
<eyJhb> Ah. at the start I guess. I hate online maling lists.
<eyJhb> Lucky for me, I just do stupid things under my own alias online!
<eyJhb> On a different off-topic. I really want to see someone durability test a system76, and then try to fix it.
<siraben> who gets the idea to do research by sending malicious (and attempt to look beneficial) patches to the Linux kernel anyway
<MichaelRaskin> Apparently, Aditya Pakki
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<red[evilred]> Did it go to the board? Did they think that just because it involved experimenting with "code" that they didn't recognize the experiment was on humans?
<MichaelRaskin> As far as I know, they sold IRB the latter interpretation. post-factum
<MichaelRaskin> Maybe there was some additional wording separating research on people and on organisations (oops, Linux kernel development does not really have an organisation)
<cole-h> doesn't it?
<cole-h> what would you call the Linux Foundation, then? :P
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<philipp[m]> Maybe they phrased it in a way of "how fast can I burn my own carreer in foss" and then they consentet to that as the party being experimented on?
<MichaelRaskin> A bunch of marketers not actually managing any process but paying one of the technical managers?
<MichaelRaskin> (but paying each of themselves more, of course)
<ashkitten> sigh... why was the wine gallium-nine patchset dropped
<ashkitten> there are gallium dx9, dx11, and dx12 state trackers iirc
<ashkitten> which work well
<ashkitten> i guess because of nvidia maybe
<philipp[m]> There seems to be a standalone version now, didn't find a why though.
<ashkitten> only for 9
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<ashkitten> i'd like one for 11
<philipp[m]> Ah, got it.
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<ashkitten> pinephone delivery today 👀
<eyJhb> :o
<eyJhb> When is there going to be a review?
<ashkitten> i'll talk about it here i guess
<ashkitten> probably no big writeup
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<eyJhb> ashkitten: Any plan to get the pine smartwatch thingy?
<samueldr> no plan to get one I think
<samueldr> because ashkitten's already got one? :)
<eyJhb> Wait
<eyJhb> What
<eyJhb> Where is my damn reviews of these things?
<samueldr> eyJhb: you never asked
<samueldr> ;)
<eyJhb> Can we get ashkitten to get a systems76 system, and drop test it/durability test it as wel?
<samueldr> reminder for people getting pinephone deliveries that Mobile NixOS is not usable as a daily driver _yet_, but is coming up nicely... and that most work left is generic Nixpkgs work
<eyJhb> samueldr: What kind of stuff do you have, that you have not told us about that we might want reviews of?
<eyJhb> :p
<samueldr> uh, lots, but "want" a review of is probably not lots
<samueldr> I have this amazing keyboard, to me it's the best because it's extremely low profile, and doesn't need much actuation force, nothing mechanical, nothing fancy... but you probably don't care about a logitech k360 :)
<ashkitten> eyJhb: pinetime is nice i guess. software kinda buggy still, it's water resistant but if the screen is even remotely moist it won't pick up touches
<samueldr> reminder for people not really aware of what the pinetime is: it does not run linux, (most likely) never will
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<f0x> also reminder that pine64 stuff is not open hardware (and most likely never will be) :(
<samueldr> yeah, that too
<samueldr> though they're one of the interesting SBC and misc things vendor since they don't try to "own" packaging the software and operating system
<samueldr> which is both a plus and a minus at once :)
<samueldr> you won't find bad CPU vendor BSP-based images of a distro customized badly for their boards
<samueldr> but you won't find an operating system image validated by them for their boards
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<f0x> yeah but if they released hardware sources too world would be <futuristic city.jpg>
<f0x> they had such potential with that and now im just perpetually disappointed because you can't actually properly extend things on a hardware level
<samueldr> I'm curious if they "can't" here because they work with vendors that won't let them
<samueldr> read the quotes
<samueldr> "can't" here probably means "would make it harder"
<f0x> quite certain the whole point of most of the chips they use is that that shouldn't be an issue
<samueldr> eh, I don't actually know
<f0x> also if that was really the only issue the least they could've done is explain that :/
<samueldr> I'm curious if anyone really asked
<samueldr> (and if anyone really asked, what the answer was)
<samueldr> though tbf, since most, pretty much all, SBC and such gizmos are not open hardware, let's all remember that this detail doesn't make pine64 worse than those others :)
<MichaelRaskin> Allwinner doesn't sound like the most quickly mainlined or low-blob vendor
<f0x> all the way back in 2016, because it was actually used as a marketing feature back then too...
<samueldr> "too"?
<f0x> samueldr: well they've since stopped advertising their products like that but the impression seems to have stuck around
<f0x> Olimex is actually really cool btw, like https://github.com/OLIMEX/DIY-LAPTOP/tree/master/HARDWARE
<samueldr> I think they never advertised as "OSHW"
<samueldr> they used the wording "open"
<samueldr> which can be confusing though
<samueldr> the first page of the thread you linked has answers by tllim, who's probably the most "in charge" person there
<f0x> " PINE64 is an open source platform from both hardware to software. " but the 'hardware' part of that sentence has never been true
<f0x> yeah, their answer clearly states they'll never release board files
<samueldr> right, but I don't think it was done in a malicious way
<samueldr> and they stopped using the wording
<samueldr> what I mean to say here is that things change
<samueldr> so I'm curious how that question asked 5 years later would be answer
<f0x> change for the worse, apparently :/
<ashkitten> i am happy that pine64 hosts nutcracker challenges to create open source drivers for hardware
<samueldr> I think I'm hearing you perfectly now, that you don't care except about absolute perfection, and can't see the nuances...
<samueldr> and I'll stop "defending" them because
<samueldr> well
<samueldr> I don't actually care
<samueldr> all of that is I'm curious
<ashkitten> like... they are making hardware that is extremely cheaply available and works with a fully open source software stack, which is something nobody else is doing
<f0x> ashkitten: the nutcracker thing is also rather questionable from a legal perspective, as people are directly working from reverse-engineered blobs, which is seen as copyright infringement
<ashkitten> purism has a mostly open source software stack but some of their hardware just doesn't work lol (camera)
<ashkitten> and purism's hardware is absurdly expensive
<f0x> ashkitten: i linked olimex, they do this too
<f0x> as actual open hardware too, kicad projects available
<ashkitten> f0x: clean room reverse engineering (which is what the nutcracker challenge is) is legally fine
<f0x> ashkitten: the nutcracker challenge isn't cleanroom though
<ashkitten> there are separate repos for decompiling, documenting, and reimplementing
<f0x> ashkitten: I think that's pretty moot when it's the same people working on all three repos?
<ashkitten> is it the same people?
<ashkitten> i assumed they had rules about that to avoid a legal situation but my assumption could be wrong
<f0x> ashkitten: having rules about that would be the proper thing yeah, but afaik they don't
<MichaelRaskin> Given that they often decompile _Linux_ drivers, there might also be enough GPL violation going on that vendors don't want to be the first one to come to court
<eyJhb> I actually thought that pine was opensource hardware as well. At least the board they mount it on?
<samueldr> "the board they mount it on"?
<MichaelRaskin> PCB design, I assume
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<samueldr> there's not much actual OSHW in the SBC world
<f0x> eyJhb: nope, and that basically illustrates my issue :( they have a reputation of open hardware without actually delivering on that
<samueldr> not saying there's none, since obviously there are
<eyJhb> MichaelRaskin: Yeah, but ... somewhat didn't want to confuse it with PCB boards they get from vendors :p ie. stuff they have not designed themselves
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<eyJhb> f0x: Is there any opensource watches then? Besides the opensource watch?
<samueldr> I think 2 or 3 open source watches exist
<samueldr> like, popular ones
<f0x> eyJhb: https://github.com/sqfmi/Watchy is quite neat
<gchristensen> I was involved in a neat thing today: https://twitter.com/DeterminateSys/status/1385303500318511112
<eyJhb> Any worth bying yet? I really want a smart wearable... But, I like the opensource stuff!
<eyJhb> gchristensen: WELL! Fine `This is not available to you`
<eyJhb> keep your secrets.
<gchristensen> wat
<eyJhb> Works now.
<eyJhb> :/
<cransom> worked for me, but i'm also a follower.
<eyJhb> gchristensen: That is coooooool! What software did they need?
<f0x> eyJhb: someone i know recently ordered the Watchy design on their own, they're not quite done with assembly tho I think
<f0x> but it looks rather solid https://watchy.sqfmi.com/watchfaces
<gchristensen> eyJhb: software to read a certain database :). it took a while to finagle the OK to write even this much info
<eyJhb> gchristensen: I special secret nice database? :D
<samueldr> let's do a FOIA then :)
<eyJhb> f0x: Looks cool. No app stuff I suppose?
<gchristensen> I mean, a database in nixkgs ...
<Synthetica> gchristensen: I just saw the tweet, is there a link where I can read more?
<gchristensen> no
<eyJhb> samueldr: Yeah, that's the one I meant :D Looks cool
<eyJhb> gchristensen: Ahh.. OK :)
<MichaelRaskin> Sounds ancient PostgreSQL
<f0x> eyJhb: hm well it is just an esp32 you could totally reflash, not necessarily constrained to just watchfaces
<cransom> probably could figure out which db by looking for software that was in 13.10 but not in 14.x
<cransom> bunch of nerds being sniped to figure out the secrets the national archives are hiding
<aleph-> gchristensen: Neat
<samueldr> NixOS 13.10 is old... it belongs in a museum
<MichaelRaskin> In an archive, even!
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<abathur> heheh
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<samueldr> imagine you have two "standard ways to do things" that are clashing, e.g. most vendors do thing A, a vendor does thing B... when writing a generic "abstraction" that aims to keep things working just the way things "should" be working, how would you weigh pros/cons when "the way things should be" is both A and B at once?
<samueldr> for things from vendor B, I could keep going with the way B does things, meaning people used to B things continue doing B things
<samueldr> or I could configure it to work just like A, which means hopping from platforms to platforms is more coherent
<samueldr> but more confusing when reading about litterature about vendor B!
<cransom> i usually see someone invent method C, which is neither similar to A or B, but somehow justified. then someone else comes along with D, and so on.
<samueldr> yeah, not a good idea :)
<samueldr> my thoughts are really focusing on two outcomes: "B works like B works generally, but confuses other users" or "B works like everything else generally, but confuses long-standing B users"
<samueldr> I could tell more details, but it wouldn't actually help the discussion along really
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<abathur> party game: take turns choosing `man -K <term>` until 1 player remains; difficulty_level starts at 1 (or higher by consensus) and increments after every round; players are eliminated when they: 1.) try to re-use a term, 2.) choose a term that yields fewer than <difficulty_level> results, 3.) choose a term that matches any perl manpage
<samueldr> >> take turns choosing `man -K <term>` until 1 player remains;
<samueldr> ah
<samueldr> I had to re-read
<samueldr> I didn't get how you were eliminated at first
<pie_> 3) seems hard
<pie_> except on nixos maybe
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<pie_> nope still get perl stuff
* pie_ tries something obscure
* pie_ gets perl as first result
<abathur> hehe
<ashkitten> whew. i knew the pinephone wasn't very powerful but it's just extremely super laggy for anything i do
<samueldr> running from eMMC or SD?
<samueldr> because it's worse on SD
<samueldr> :)
<samueldr> (not saying it's good on eMMC)
<ashkitten> it's completely unresponsive half the time after the screen turns off
<ashkitten> and i had to hold down the power button to shut off the phone, now it isn't booting and a red light is angrily blinking at me
<samueldr> I had trouble with the manjaro build that was shipped on it
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<samueldr> when I only wanted to verify the hardware worked
<ashkitten> ugh so i have to install something else to actually attempt to use?
<samueldr> I had less issues with whatever the manjaro image I used
<samueldr> tried ubports to see how it was going, since I last used ubports a couple years back on a nexus 7
<samueldr> and it was better
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<ashkitten> i have no idea what's wrong
<ashkitten> i put the jumpdrive image on an sdcard and put it in the pinephone
<ashkitten> it's still just flashing the red light at me
<ashkitten> wtf
<samueldr> huh, that's actually odd
<samueldr> tried removing the battery?
<ashkitten> i have to, to put the sdcard in
<samueldr> well... it can sneak in just fine without, but yeah, I can see how it's way more trivial
<samueldr> fun thing: the LED is entirely software controlled
<samueldr> so whoever customized the U-Boot build decided what it means
<samueldr> so there's no universal meaning :(
<samueldr> it shouldn't be "flashing"
<samueldr> except if it bootlooped
<samueldr> you don't have the serial cable I suppose, right?
<ashkitten> disregard me... i put the microsd in the sim slot
<samueldr> that would explain how it was still doing its bootloop like before
<samueldr> so I assume you said that because it works in the right slot?
<ashkitten> yes
<ashkitten> :/ it's not obvious that it's two slots stacked. some devices can have a microsd or sim in the same slot
<samueldr> yeah
<ashkitten> anyway i want to overwrite the WHOLE emmc with ubuntu touch right?
<samueldr> also it's not the nanosim, but microsim, so actually probably larger than your sim
<samueldr> generally yeah, images ship with the whole initial boot firmware
<samueldr> but since it's an allwinner a64, sd card will always be there to get you out of a brick
<ashkitten> cool
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<ashkitten> is the dd operation supposed to just sit there at the end doing nothing?
<samueldr> probably
<ashkitten> :/ wh
<samueldr> depending how it was actually called, it might be going through the cache stuff of Linux
<ashkitten> ah
<samueldr> I generally use oflag=direct I think it makes it not go through that?
<samueldr> well, oflag=direct,sync, but I think the sync is not useful because of direct?
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