<{^_^}>
nix#4739 (by SuperSandro2000, 7 seconds ago, open): nix search without a term should error
<elvishjerricco>
Is there a way to make `find` treat symbolic links by printing both the path to the link and the path it links to?
<supersandro2000>
from fd
<supersandro2000>
-l, --list-details
<supersandro2000>
Use a detailed listing format like 'ls -l'. This is basically an alias for '--exec-batch ls -l' with some additional 'ls' options. This can be used to see more
<supersandro2000>
metadata, to show symlink targets and to achieve a deterministic sort order.
<gchristensen>
I don't really think they look in order of thumbs much, though. Looking at the last few days almost all merged PRs had 0 thumbs
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<supersandro2000>
hexa-: it did not open a pager for me
<elvishjerricco>
I think... I just used bash while loops and pipes as the list monad
<aleph->
Ohhh?
<aleph->
Go on elvishjerricco
<elvishjerricco>
aleph-: Basically just did a series of `cat input | while read foo; do ... ; done | while read bar; do ... ; done`
<aleph->
Ah heheh
<elvishjerricco>
a bit more complicated for... reasons
<elvishjerricco>
specifically I had a while loop that was reading paths from stdin, and if the path was a symlink I wanted it to process the chain of symlinks as well
<elvishjerricco>
So I took my `... | while read obj; do ... ; done` and turned it into `... | (while read obj; do echo "$obj"; while test -h "$obj"; do obj="$(readlink "$obj")"; echo "$obj"; done; done) | (while read obj; do ... ; done)`
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<eyJhb>
gchristensen: Is your PR a lot more complicated?
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<Ke>
samueldr: how's the metric going on Canada btw. I was on toronto (Hamilton) around 2008 and people assured me Canada is mteric, but now watching canadan tv I see feet everywhere
<Ke>
metric
<Ke>
is this Territorial thing or just university vs. outside thing
<DigitalKiwi>
only french canada is metric
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<Mic92>
How do they deal with speed limits on traffic sign in the country. Is it some parts also metric and in other parts miles/hour?
<eyJhb>
Mic92: That's actually a good question
<Mic92>
That would be super confusing for folks
<eyJhb>
I might have driven in Sweden without knowing the actually speed limit on the highway when no signs are present.
<eyJhb>
Big _might_
<eyJhb>
Isn't there a difference in how the signs look?
<samueldr>
fun fact! here in Québec, and other parts of Canada. four liter of milks customarily comes into three bags!
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<samueldr>
what
<samueldr>
how did I leave?
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<hexa->
samueldr: looks like /part
<samueldr>
yeah, but I didn't :)
<samueldr>
(I looked at my logs to see)
<Ke>
but was it metric or imperial part?
<hexa->
maybe not intentionally
<hexa->
but you were gone for 7s
<samueldr>
I wonder how, since ^W hides the channel from the list but doesn't part
<samueldr>
but I didn't ^W accidentally writing this time :)
<hexa->
too long for chghost etc.
<samueldr>
it happened when I looked at another channel
<samueldr>
so that's odd
<samueldr>
anyway
<samueldr>
all of this is also tinted by the fact that the switch to metric is recent enough
<samueldr>
it happened from 1970 through 1985
<samueldr>
so my parents were already born and learning things
<Ke>
last I saw was house sizes
<samueldr>
they probably had a mixed education
<Ke>
in square feet
<samueldr>
ah, square feet
<samueldr>
yeah, "customary" square feet
<samueldr>
it's how it's always had been done, so comparison is easier
<samueldr>
that's the general idea behind all of it, whenever you hear an imperial unit being used, it's because there was no "force" to make them change in their industry
<samueldr>
>> Despite the exclusive use of degrees Celsius in weather reports, some Canadians still use Fahrenheit
<samueldr>
that doesn't hold true in Québec
<samueldr>
outside of cooking (oven temperature only) that's the only unit that doesn't make any sense
<Ke>
I would assume most do not do conversions, but use whatever they get from a source
<samueldr>
or match the source
<Ke>
especially temperature conversion is slightly painful, since it's not just multiply
<samueldr>
yeah
<samueldr>
>> In English-speaking Canada commercial and residential spaces are mostly (but not exclusively) constructed using imperial units and advertised accordingly, while in French-speaking Quebec commercial and residential spaces are constructed in metres and advertised using both metric and imperial units as equivalents
<samueldr>
yeah, holds true
<drakonis>
hm, so nix is available on debian now
<drakonis>
cant wait for the impending swarm of debian and ubuntu users
<MichaelRaskin>
I don't really expect a large swarm
<hexa->
that is quite some targets
<drakonis>
its only available for debian 11 and forawrd
<drakonis>
forward, so that means its not going to take place right away
<MichaelRaskin>
You need that fine sliver of people who have any use for Nix (running the recommended package set for Gnome desktop is tolerable with apt, it's the exotic things that break everything in three simple steps), but did not Just Use Binary Installer
<drakonis>
bullseye is slated to release later this year
<hexa->
installer was rc1ed quite recently
<hexa->
so probably q3?
<MichaelRaskin>
It is nicer for those who use Nix anyway
<samueldr>
nix as development environment tooling, maybe
<samueldr>
like, nix-shell and friends
<samueldr>
or nix-build
<samueldr>
that's what I would assume way before apt replacement
<MichaelRaskin>
I mean, if you are on Debian you can not ever replace apt
<drakonis>
it has `nix` out of the box
<drakonis>
in which i assume it still hasnt been taken out from the default builds yet
<MichaelRaskin>
Once your kernel and login shell are not from apt, you are no longer on Debian anyway
<MichaelRaskin>
Ouch, Ouch ouch ouch
<MichaelRaskin>
I just understood that Nix in Debian is pain
<drakonis>
it has some weird jankiness you dont get with the install script too
<drakonis>
it doesnt even come with nixpkgs enabled :v
<MichaelRaskin>
Because it means that in a couple of years we get a trickle of users who use Debian Nix and cannot evaluate Nixpkgs
<drakonis>
or worse even, it requires elevating permissions to do things like nix-shell
<drakonis>
they also have guix but that one works extremely fine because the intersection between debian and guix is pretty strong
<drakonis>
among other circles like the reproducible builds and bootstrappable folks
<drakonis>
there was more effort here
<drakonis>
nix took forever to enter debian because most of the time was spent dealing with debian's policies
<drakonis>
it was a rough journey
<drakonis>
i remember it languishing in debian new
<drakonis>
nix comes with a systemd package attached to the hip
<drakonis>
why does the nix package employ tmpfiles
<drakonis>
it vaporizes gcroots and profiles on reboot
<drakonis>
along with the socket
<drakonis>
thanks i hate it debian
<drakonis>
i'm rapidly reconsidering bootstrapping nixos on this machine again
<aleph->
This may be the worst package ever
<aleph->
... of all time.
<MichaelRaskin>
It vaporises gcroots on reboot??
<drakonis>
yes
<drakonis>
can this package be worse than the time a debian packager gave us heartbleed?
<drakonis>
oh wait
<drakonis>
wrong one
<drakonis>
that one was using valgrind without abandon
<drakonis>
it nukes /nix/var/nix/gcroots/per-user
<hexa->
the easiest explanation is: they don't understand gcroots
<drakonis>
i'm generally confused to what is the purpose of that
<drakonis>
also it didnt disappear into oblivion but idk
<drakonis>
i'm still not particularly excitedlol
<drakonis>
it isnt specifying the age column
<drakonis>
so no deletion i guess?
<drakonis>
its still uhh
<drakonis>
not good?
<drakonis>
i'll try something real quick
<drakonis>
since i actually need to add the channel
<drakonis>
lol, not even adding a channel works properly
<drakonis>
good lord.
<__monty__>
Is this about Debian Testing at least, not stable?
<drakonis>
its not even on stable yet
<drakonis>
plus stable is coming later this year
<drakonis>
i think the freeze has already taken place
<drakonis>
so this is the state of the package the average debian user will experience on release
<cole-h>
wtf
<__monty__>
So this *is* about Stable?
<drakonis>
technically, yes.
<drakonis>
once it does propagate downwards
<drakonis>
its very very broken
<drakonis>
i have no idea how it even got into the repos even with the scrutiny it had
<__monty__>
Can we maybe petition Debian maintainers to hold off on including it in Stable in this state?
<drakonis>
hmm, if they kept xchat, even when the hexchat maintainer petitioned to not include it in the repos
<drakonis>
its unlikely but worth a try
<__monty__>
Was that about it being broken or just the author prefering not to be in the repos?
<drakonis>
both
<drakonis>
xchat is extremely broken today
<drakonis>
the debian person that decided to do it, did entirely out of nostalgia
<drakonis>
it wasnt a good look
<drakonis>
oh, xchat isnt here anymore
<drakonis>
thank fucking goodness
<drakonis>
it got nuked from testing
<drakonis>
they are definitely open to removing things
<drakonis>
okay so i tried adding nixpkgs to both root and my user and lmao neither of them can see it
<drakonis>
this is highly terrible.
<drakonis>
i wonder whether the person responsible for this, actually went on irc to ask for any kind of advice on the matter
<MichaelRaskin>
I think Nix used to have an official deb, but then you probably eventually want Nix-installed-Nix, so now it's just binary installer
<MichaelRaskin>
I do not remember what the debs built on Hydra targeted, probably both latest Debian and Ubuntu
<drakonis>
also removing the package does not do any cleanups
<drakonis>
so if i wanted to install nix, it wouldnt work
<drakonis>
its ugly
<drakonis>
it leaves a very large trail behind
<drakonis>
at this point, i might just install nix from a iso instead
<MichaelRaskin>
I am too lazy to spin a sid VM and file all the bugs against this package until it collapses under their weight
<drakonis>
run a container
<drakonis>
its easy peasy
<drakonis>
its what i do on nixos
<drakonis>
you get the same clown show but with less setup
<drakonis>
run debootstrap and go bonkers
<MichaelRaskin>
Loook
<MichaelRaskin>
I have Nix in Debian chroot in Android on my Cosmo
<drakonis>
wow...
<drakonis>
what...
<MichaelRaskin>
I _know_ there is a ton of things that are slightly different in chroot/container/top system
<MichaelRaskin>
Especially with Nix and sandboxing
<MichaelRaskin>
So proper testing needs a VM
<drakonis>
i see
<MichaelRaskin>
There is something to testing it and chroot and then saying that this testing report is as horribly misguided and broken as the package being tested, but that sounds like some modern performance art
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<drakonis>
i see
<drakonis>
well, this is running natively right now
<drakonis>
i have debian running here as a desktop and welp, its all kinds of horrible shit
<pie_>
hm, any way i could use ssh-agent with remote builders?
<pie_>
i imagine i have to get the nix daemon running with an agent in its env and then i have to talk to the agent to add a key?
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<samueldr>
didn't think it'd highlight people when copying the line
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<elvishjerricco>
I should probably find an alternative to irccloud anyway... Anyone have one they like that has an iOS client?
* samueldr
still thinks *serv bots are an anachronism, as is lack of "presence" in modern irc networks
<drozdziak1>
elvishjerricco Matrix? Not the greatest latency, other than that setting up a bouncer on NixOS is a nice experience (using ZNC myself)
<samueldr>
but that's like my opinion, and it's more about making a friendly chat server built on IRC technologies than actually making an IRC server
<elvishjerricco>
drozdziak1: I tried matrix, but it was unusably slow. I also tried znc but did not understand it :P
<MichaelRaskin>
I think IRC actually has presence that nobody ever uses, no?
<MichaelRaskin>
elvishjerricco: if you use Matrix, slow, and an adverb in the same sentence, you are obligated to state the rough time
<samueldr>
ugh, my client is confused
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<samueldr>
now I can tab-complete again
<samueldr>
MichaelRaskin: maybe, I don't know about it
<samueldr>
what I had in mind was, a decade ago, not really "compliant" with irc
<samueldr>
it was more like "what if irc, but the server is your bnc?"
<MichaelRaskin>
(matrix.org homeserver is slower than everybody would like and that's where the Freenode bridge connects to, but over time there are some improvements)
<samueldr>
so connecting (with auth at connection, not via services) would connect into the same username, even if you're connected at two locations
<MichaelRaskin>
At what point you just get XMPP with server-side history storage XEP?
<samueldr>
and quitting wouldn't leave the server
<drozdziak1>
Well, at #hackerspace-pl we regularly have a laugh about the 30s it sometimes take for messages to squeeze through, and we're running our own instance
<samueldr>
MichaelRaskin: never since it's not running on XMPP
<samueldr>
:)
<samueldr>
but yeah, probably something in the spirit
<MichaelRaskin>
samueldr: there is /away command in IRC
<samueldr>
and?
<MichaelRaskin>
So you should be more careful about asking about presence
<samueldr>
I don't follow
<samueldr>
though I'll explain here the definition I thought about presence
<drozdziak1>
I say the only protocols where presence works is the ones that force you to report it by design :P
<samueldr>
"logging-in" into an account, and being present on the server even though you're not on an active IRC connection
<samueldr>
basically presence here is more synonym to what users use bnc for
<MichaelRaskin>
I have yet to see _any_ protocol where offline messages would be called «presence»
<samueldr>
well, I'm not a protocol designer
<samueldr>
so my terminology may be off
<samueldr>
sue me
<joepie91>
<MichaelRaskin> I think IRC actually has presence that nobody ever uses, no?
<samueldr>
but it's not about the offline messaging
<joepie91>
you are thinking of WATCH, I assume
<samueldr>
it's about being able to assume the same "nick" from multiple location
<samueldr>
so being "present" on the server from multiple sessions
<joepie91>
<samueldr> what I had in mind was, a decade ago, not really "compliant" with irc
<samueldr>
joepie91: mind the quotes :)
<joepie91>
I am still convinced that this is entirely compliant with the RFCs, technically speaking :)
<joepie91>
ah :P
<joepie91>
even in practice I suspect it'd work though
<samueldr>
yes
<samueldr>
bncs kind of prove it
<samueldr>
basically what I had in mind was an IRC server merged with the bnc
<samueldr>
(with other features that are not relevant for talking about netsplits, and nickserv stuff)
<MichaelRaskin>
Pretty sure it is not compliant with IRC client-server protocol descriptions
<joepie91>
MichaelRaskin: I dug into this a while ago and could not find anything that explicitly prohibited it
<joepie91>
far as I can tell, it's exactly as valid as every other custom IRC extension
<samueldr>
it's probably valid in practice, but against the design philosophy of the initial RFCs
<elvishjerricco>
No mobile is kinda killer though. I use irc from my phone a lot, especially for the push notifications.
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<aleph->
Weechat and weechat-android are it for me
<aleph->
Perfect as it is
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<colemickens>
pie_: I actually symlink root's ssh config to my own, and I have my ssh config setup to point at a specific location for ssh agent
<colemickens>
and then I actually manage that location myself. on my local machine, it points to gpg-agent's ssh socket, but on a remote machine, I point it at the forwarded ssh socket.
<colemickens>
it also means that as long as I make that symlink correctly and keep it pointed at the most-recent ssh agent, my ssh connections just keep humming along in tmux (rather than possibly pointing at old ssh sockets, etc)
<colemickens>
anyway, the net effect includes root being able to use my yubikey to authenticate. This only works because root can read my ssh config and access the socket though. So this doesn't work for... hydra-queue-runner, for example.
<MichaelRaskin>
Hm. In a few iterations of collecting garbage and removing stale GC roots I am getting to 109 GiB freed… which is still less than I hoped for
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<elvishjerricco>
Testing out convos...
<aaronjanse>
Convos seems to be working :-)
<elvishjerricco>
Aw, no tab completion for people's names
<elvishjerricco>
Someone mention me; I want to see if desktop notifications work
<MichaelRaskin>
elvishjerricco do they?
<aaronjanse>
elvishjerricco: Do mentions work?
<f0x>
elvishjerricco: no :P
<aaronjanse>
Welp
<elvishjerricco>
Firefox auto blocked notifications on this site so none of those tests worked :P
<elvishjerricco>
Try again?
<aaronjanse>
elvishjerricco: How about now?
<elvishjerricco>
Nope :/
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<aaronjanse>
Or, elvishjerricco how about now?
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<aaronjanse>
(idk if Matrix is doing something weird with @mentions)
<elvishjerricco>
It's definitely flagging them as red in the web page but there's no desktop notification
<elvishjerricco>
Alright one more chance. Someone try sending me a dm?
<aaronjanse>
elvishjerricco: Hello
<aaronjanse>
Ooh
<elvishjerricco>
Derp. When I enabled notifications, I didn't hit "save settings"
<aaronjanse>
Ha
<elvishjerricco>
aaronjanse: One more try, just to be sure?
<aaronjanse>
Hello elvishjerricco
<elvishjerricco>
Cool. The notification works, but there's no sound, so I'm definitely going to miss 90% of these :P
<aaronjanse>
Aww
<MichaelRaskin>
For the first time since forever I am actually removing non-broken packages from the environment definitions, just because I have not used them in ages and they are large
<MichaelRaskin>
Meh. Still not large enough
<elvishjerricco>
The mobile interface looks pretty good. But there's no way it'll do notifications
<aaronjanse>
Did you get my test DM?
<elvishjerricco>
Yea, thanks aaronjanse
<aaronjanse>
Awesome
<elvishjerricco>
Huh, this thing has pretty useful search
<aaronjanse>
Ooh that's cool
<elvishjerricco>
I *think* I'm going to go back to irccloud for now, but this is fairly promising.