#nixos-chat on 2021-04-09

2018-10-11 19:40 gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat

00:05 <gchristensen> this podcast keeps advertising "CBT Nuggets" but c'mon you can't not hear CBD

00:05 <samueldr> I had no idea about that meaning of CBT

00:06 <gchristensen> heh

00:14 <lovesegfault> I'd like some CBD nuggets

00:18 <lovesegfault> https://arraysarenotpointers.dev

00:18 <lovesegfault> lol

00:21 <V> wait, there's a third expansion for CBT?

00:21 <V> TIL

00:22 <cole-h> lovesegfault: https://i.imgur.com/JNrfT6P.png fjkljfkl

00:22 <cole-h> } is on line 8 and 9 apparently 🤔

00:23 <samueldr> line numbers

00:23 <lovesegfault> cole-h: Yeah, there's some bug with my theme :(

00:23 <lovesegfault> I might just disable line numbers

00:23 <samueldr> and might be somewhat renderer dependent

00:23 <samueldr> like which font renderer is used

00:24 <samueldr> the "best" way to render those flawlessly is with table layout (which can be achieved without the <table> tag)

00:24 <MichaelRaskin> V: the correct question is «wait, there is more than two pages of expansions for CBT»

00:25 <V> I've only heard two expansions in common parlance. I don't doubt there to be a ton of organisations/etc which abbreviate to it

00:26 <MichaelRaskin> I am pretty sure you recognise more than two generic notions that obviously abbreviate to CBT

00:26 <lovesegfault> cole-h: if you refresh they should be gone now

00:27 <cole-h> :D

00:29 <aleph-> Hmm I need to figure out how to add plugins to coreDNS.

00:29 <aleph-> Err the coreDNS module.

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00:35 <pie_> wow this feels really dumb, apparently `ip netns` looks up network namespaces by symlinks , and abunch of things dont create those symlinks

00:35 <pie_> where do i vent my frustration

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00:40 <hexa-> pie_: /dev/null

00:40 <pie_> >:(

00:40 <hexa-> ip netns shows netns bind mounts in /var/run/netns

00:41 <hexa-> so you can ${pkgs.utillinux}/bin/mount --bind /proc/$PID/ns/net /run/netns/${PID}_NETNS

00:41 <hexa-> and have $PID_NETNS show up in `ip netns`

00:42 <pie_> yeah but i shouldnt need to do that it should figure it out which processes have network namespaces itself

00:43 <hexa-> maybe vent here? https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2741

00:43 <{^_^}> systemd/systemd#2741 (by tonobo, 5 years ago, closed): Access mounted (ip netns ...) network namespaces.

00:43 <hexa-> anyway, heading to bed \o

00:44 <pie_> o/

00:45 <pie_> that doesnt look immediately related? also is this really a systemd thing/

00:45 <pie_> ?

00:47 <pie_> sidenote lsns --net seems to be the way to list them and oyu can get the PIDs there

00:48 <pie_> (or you could enumerate the proc directories)

00:48 <pie_> not sure lsns doesnt just do the same thing

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02:06 <samueldr> love to segfault the compiler

02:06 <samueldr> uh

02:06 <samueldr> the linker*

02:06 <lovesegfault> I do

02:07 <pie_> hexa-: once again frustrated by github search not having exclusion

02:07 <pie_> hexa-: sorry accidental highlight :P

02:07 <pie_> im trying to search github for "learn networking" without the "neural" -_-

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02:57 <DigitalKiwi> isn't that just linkedin

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05:35 <pie_> virtualbox takin forever...

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06:16 <ar> ,launch Soyuz MS-18 launch in 1.5h (at 7:42 UTC) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtV6kyKvlpk

06:16 <{^_^}> Soyuz MS-18 launch in 1.5h (at 7:42 UTC) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtV6kyKvlpk: Ping for space stuff (edit this command to add yourself, see ",help"): infinisil Taneb ldlework etu philipp[m] eyJhb gchristensen __red__ red red[evilred] risson

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06:53 <etu> eyJhb: That's terrible news!

06:54 <etu> eyJhb: Oh well, only from jellyfin, I can live without that :)

06:54 <eyJhb> Yeah, but the current module does not support putting in plugins :(

06:54 <eyJhb> *adding plugins

07:17 <aleph-> Hmm, what's this about jellyfin? Missing scroll back?

07:18 <eyJhb> aleph-: https://www.reddit.com/r/jellyfin/comments/jrvly5/thetvdb_new_api_and_licensing_model/

07:18 <eyJhb> It was in #nixos

07:19 <aleph-> Ah that thing b

07:19 <eyJhb> TheTVDB is removed in newest versions and put here - https://github.com/jellyfin/jellyfin-plugin-tvdb

07:19 <eyJhb> So we need a update for the module :p

07:19 <aleph-> Heh

07:19 <eyJhb> Does *not it* work in NixOS chats?

07:19 <eyJhb> And the last person then has to do it?

07:21 <aleph-> Guess I could do it.

07:21 <aleph-> Once I debug this zonefile

07:22 <Ke> yet another nixos update. yet another terminal not working

07:22 <eyJhb> Shouldn't be that hard (maybe). But the issue is more about the best way to compile it? Looking at jellyfin, it has a lot of extra stuff.

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09:43 <eyJhb> gchristensen: Next up is doing ZFS rollback on my router :p

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11:41 <Ke> anyone bother to check, whether I am on nixos, my clients are silly

11:41 <Ke> ?

11:42 <MichaelRaskin> whois tells me you are

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11:49 <Ke> heh, can't send, receive or part or join there =o)

11:50 <hexa-> matrix, yay

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12:29 <gchristensen> nice, eyJhb

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13:50 <srk> oO 'Nix is the ultimate DevOps toolkit' trending on orange site :)

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13:51 <hodapp> yup, I saw

13:52 <srk> awsum, yesterday during a meeting someone said that everyone knows about docker/k8s but nix is little known.. not in my bubble!

13:52 <hodapp> "Nix is slowly becoming a major point of contention. In some communities, it’s already scary to even hint that one dislikes it." uhhh.... is it? or are you just looking for something to claim victimhood about?

13:54 <hodapp> srk: I definitely appreciate the vastly less heavyweight nature of Nix here

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13:55 <srk> this

13:55 <__monty__> I mostly just know one community with a significant portion of people who dislike Nix. And I can't really blame them because the UX is pretty harsh if it doesn't solve a problem you feel like you have.

13:56 <hodapp> I definitely find the sparsity of docs on certain things frustrating

13:59 <siraben> monty: which community is that?

14:01 <__monty__> A programming language community where Nix got popular as a solution to manage dependencies.

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14:05 <hodapp> Haskell?

14:15 <siraben> I thought Haskellers would be the most amicable to Nix

14:18 <srk> many use stack, some people use plain cabal

14:19 <eyJhb> __monty__: spill the beans.

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14:49 <siraben> srk: stack though 🤮

14:50 <srk> pretty much :)

14:50 <srk> but hey, it works for some people.. sometimes :)

14:51 <srk> I wish we stop following stackage(-nightly) for haskell updates at some point and use hackage directly

14:54 <__monty__> For Nixpkgs?

14:55 <__monty__> It already covers all of hackage though? Just with the added guarantee that things that are in stackage will actually build together.

14:56 <srk> yes, but that forces packages that are not on stackage to either wait or jump to new version and deal with breakage in nixpkgs

14:58 <srk> e.g. recently optparse-applicative - update-nix-fetchgit updated to work with hackage version but on stackage it's pinned to older one until all of their packages update. so it needs overrides in nixpkgs

14:59 <srk> altought technically it's more up2date compared to stackage-nightly

15:03 <__monty__> Yes, that's the price you pay for stackage.

15:03 <__monty__> It's still the correct decision for the Nixpkgs infra imo.

15:03 <pie_> haskell.nix ... or something

15:04 <__monty__> Greatest probability things actually build.

15:04 <__monty__> Yes, haskell.nix is so much better.

15:04 <__monty__> As a dev environment.

15:04 <__monty__> Though imo it could serve as Nixpkgs infra too.

15:06 <srk> can't due to ifds :)

15:07 <srk> __monty__: I'm not sure if it's correct decision but I'm fine with that for now

15:07 <__monty__> Hydra should just grow up. ; p

15:11 <sterni> srk: hackage has so many broken version bounds due to updates I don't think that'd work overall

15:12 <sterni> srk: stackage is only holding back on updates if there is significant breakage due to updates

15:12 <srk> yep

15:14 <__monty__> sterni: It does get annoying when you need the latest version of something. Suddenly all the training wheels fall away.

15:15 <sterni> __monty__: we have the latest version of everything in haskellPackages though

15:15 <__monty__> Does the Nixpkgs infra ignore version bounds or not, I can't remember?

15:15 <sterni> no it doesn't unless you explicitly tell it to

15:15 <sterni> (although that only works for unconditional ones)

15:15 <__monty__> sterni: haskellPackages is stackage + hackage afaik.

15:16 <sterni> __monty__: yep and for every package that is in stackage we also have it from hackage if that is newer

15:16 <sterni> i. e.

15:16 <sterni> foo is from stackage (or hackage if it is not in stackage)

15:16 <sterni> foo_1_2_3_4 is from hackage (latest version)

15:18 <__monty__> And latest but one?

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16:05 <gchristensen> you know you're having a good time when you're researching passing functions by reference in perl

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16:46 <talyz> gchristensen: hah, I did the exact same thing for ruby yesterday

16:46 <talyz> a really good time

16:46 <gchristensen> hah

16:47 <talyz> (well, might be better than perl, dunno)

16:48 <gchristensen> \&functionname

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17:01 <aanderse> gchristensen: you really really really have my sympathies

17:01 <aanderse> i understand

17:04 <gchristensen> haha

17:04 <gchristensen> thanks :)

17:05 <hodapp> our hackerspace was left with a Perl monstrosity running a bunch of important things

17:07 <hodapp> from a former member who loved reinventing wheels and pretty actively pushed away anyone who might help

17:20 <cransom> we have home grown perl code running a part of our website. the kicker being, they switched to rails and management said 'the full conversion is done. great success.' while the perl component is still running, and runs critical function of the site.

17:20 <gchristensen> lol

17:21 <samueldr> great success: the critical part is still working I guess

17:22 <cransom> it hasn't seen meaningful code change or TLC since 2016, yet it still 'works'. it's perl 5.10 even.

17:22 <samueldr> self-maintaining even!

17:23 <cransom> it's in a cryostasis tarball.

17:25 <cransom> i'd really like to know what the response is from that person when someone asks 'why does it look like this aspect of the site looks like it did in 2012'

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19:00 <sterni> __monty__: then you probably want to use haskell.nix

19:01 <sterni> __monty__: with haskellPackages we are kinda hitting the limits of what can be done with nix in nixpkgs, already parsing hackage-packages.nix takes 1s

19:01 <sterni> __monty__: reusing the cabal solver for version constraints only works via ifd feasibly (like haskell.nix does) but that isn't possible in nixpkgs

19:02 <sterni> so the haskell infrastructure for every use case is probably not possible to provide from nixpkgs at least currently.

19:09 <ar> hm

19:09 <ar> https://twitter.com/EU_SST/status/1380120766071635968

19:09 <ar> probably not worthy of ,launch though

19:16 <aaronjanse> Impressive. GPT-3 completing a shell history with NixOS in the uname

19:16 * aaronjanse uploaded an image: (54KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/kumuaoXTfBwKGnoFGcoGOrTL/image.png >

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19:35 <aleph-> Heh neat

19:36 <cole-h> fake, doesn't have a 1980 compilation or whatever time

19:36 <cole-h> :P

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22:16 <pie_> Random rant, I know I'm in the "wrong" here, but I wish someone would just give me a half decent underpaid job so I could have a trickle of money where I could justify the time I spend learning this stuff better and work on upgrading my environment a bit.

22:16 <pie_> ok maybe trickle is an understatement but

22:17 <pie_> depends on what youre comparing to i guess

22:17 <pie_> I'm too intimidated by real job hunting

22:17 <pie_> and I cant do full-time anyway

22:20 <samueldr> I don't think you're in the wrong

22:21 <hexa-> lamo, what 1/3 of what graham offered would be awesome here in germany fwiw

22:21 <samueldr> I don't remember the english word off the top of my head

22:21 <hexa-> s/lamo/lmao/

22:21 <samueldr> but imagine wood working and similar "hand-on" work

22:21 <hexa-> jesus … one third of what graham offered*

22:21 <samueldr> where you learn from someone

22:21 <pie_> samueldr: apprenticeship?

22:21 <samueldr> yeah

22:21 <samueldr> a good chunk of programming work is closer to hands-on work than doctorate level research stuff

22:22 <pie_> im just frustrated because i emotionally commit to committing

22:22 <samueldr> why isn't it a thing that we, artisans of the bytes, don't get apprentices?

22:22 <samueldr> uh

22:22 <pie_> my life has been pretty unstable so im looking for someone to maybe not go out of their way, but to give me a try, and so that i can prove to myself that im not useless

22:22 <samueldr> there's a negation too many

22:22 <pie_> im in the wrong in that this isnt common

22:23 <pie_> and i cant expect to get lucky

22:23 <samueldr> I think you should be in the right to want apprenticeship kind of work to get started

22:23 <samueldr> do I understand you right?

22:23 <pie_> maybe

22:23 <pie_> im really lacking in confidence, thats most of it

22:24 <pie_> its a bitcomplicated

22:24 <pie_> and im lacking in a lot of basics but i can do a lot of advanced stuff too

22:25 <pie_> though probably a large part of the problem is also that i do a lot of niche tech

22:25 <pie_> well, mostly nix :P

22:25 <pie_> as opposed to something with a larget market

22:28 <abathur> see also: impostor syndrome

22:29 <pie_> yeah

22:29 <pie_> but even then

22:48 <samueldr> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJJgkno7cCM

22:50 <samueldr> this was made because there's been a new record https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/04/new-super-mario-bros-record-breaks-speedrunnings-four-minute-mile/

22:52 <cransom> wonder if kosmic will go back to the grind to fix that.

22:53 <pie_> nixos-container create hanging...weird

22:57 <pie_> kind of annoying that you cant delete a route in ip route by an index

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23:05 <pie_> sure I guess there could be race conditions or something

23:24 <pie_> well..filed my UX complaint for today....

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