gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
<ivan> colemickens: it's been done. delphi compiler, then the malwared xcode
<colemickens> A piece of paper is going around to collect numbers for a Signal group.
<colemickens> Oh dear god
<pie_> huh?
<pie_> signal without numbers cant come soon enough
<colemickens> I'm in a group of people at a place that think it's wise to try to publicly collect phone numbers for a Signal group. It seems really dangerous to put your number on this list that is passed to strangers.
<colemickens> Like a group of hundreds of people. :/
<samueldr> :<
<pie_> signal has groups now?
<ivan> you'd never know it using Signal-Desktop
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<Church-> pie_: P2P e2e chat when kthx?
<Church-> Numberless signal would be alright I guess
<pie_> Church-: if only tox wasnt shit
<pie_> err, thats a bit strong phrasing but i have reservations
<pie_> tbf ive been thinking and non p2p might actually be better for privacy but im not sure
<pie_> if you cant tell whos talking to who
<pie_> but tor is probably the most advanced model at this point idk
<pie_> and i still need to look into mixnets
<pie_> but anyway signal with usernames instead of numbers if probably a start
<samueldr> I don't know about usernames
* colemickens stumbled across mixnets the other day, but it was in a huge firefox session that firefox... ate.
<pie_> err, i said a word
<samueldr> my opinion is that it should be a GUID or something like that
<pie_> colemickens: press f to pay respects
<colemickens> I don't know anything about them, I was curious to go back and read more
<pie_> yeah i dont know anything about them either
<samueldr> the signal server would *assign* you an ID
<samueldr> sure, you're not "pie_" on signal, not easy to share
<samueldr> but each GUID ends up equally unique and abstract
<samueldr> (abstract according to the rules of GUID)
<pie_> samueldr: i dont really have any arguments abuot this, i meant "thing that isnt strongly tied irl metadata"
<samueldr> yep
<pie_> i jsut happened to say username because not thinking
<samueldr> just saying, if it even is important lol
<samueldr> and one of the reason about not using usernames? removes the need to manage user names
<samueldr> what if I registered facebook @ signal
<samueldr> or password reset @ signal
<samueldr> usernames are messy
<samueldr> "but how do I share my username?"
<samueldr> QR codes, or similar
<samueldr> they could have their own scheme which "looks cool"
<samueldr> anyway, that's what I had cooking in mind since I learned about how signal uses phone numbers for identity
<samueldr> thanks for listening to my TED talk
<worldofpeace> this needs a *mic drop too
<Ashy> has anyone started working on a predefined "distro" of nixos?
<Ashy> i'm thinking a pre-built config you could clone that lands you in something vaguely similar to a base ubuntu/fedora install
<Ashy> it could be a good way to help new nixos users but also as a bit of a guideline for best practises for machine configs
<Ashy> something similar to spacemacs for emacs but for nixos
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<samueldr> Ashy: I think matthewbauer is
<samueldr> there was another distro, forgot the name, that maybe did
<samueldr> like, it had a site and people working on it, but really the name escapes me
<Church-> Hmm I should write a module for loki
<Church-> Finally run a logging solution at home.
<Church-> Thankfully seems like I can just stea-cough borrow most of the module for prometheus. :)
<Ashy> samueldr: cheers
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<drakonis> sir this is a wendy's
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<colemickens> Irenes: >Irenes was kicked, was invited and joined, sounds like an exciting day!
<colemickens> thought it was a bit funny, element was showing me that in #nixos-dev :P
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<eyJhb> I feel like I am reaching my limit, by beeing in 10 NixOS related channels. But I know there is a hell of a lot more
<bqv> One thing I miss so much from gentoo
<bqv> Is how damn pretty portage is
<eyJhb> Pretty?
<eyJhb> Pretify rebuild bqv ? :p
<bqv> Gentoo on the whole has such wonderful use of colour and formatting
<bqv> Meh.
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<ar> hm. new version of konsole decided to hijack all of my alt+[1-9] shortcuts
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<eyJhb> ar: deleted?
<ar> eyJhb: hm? the tweet link or what?
<eyJhb> Yeah
<eyJhb> Can't see it
<ar> that link still works for me
<ar> anyway
<ar> >This pilot seems to be dealing with a Boeing 737 emergency by asking the friendly StackExchange community… https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/79782/can-the-landing-gear-be-lowered-when-system-a-hydraulic-pressure-is-lost-in-boei
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<philipp[m]1> sbd just asked me whetehr nix was node based. Wdid?
<bqv> Scream
<bqv> Directly into their face, with unrelenting force
<bqv> Alternatively, say yes and shove nix through emscripten
<bqv> Composable, reproducible webapps!
<adisbladis> Well, the Nix model is based on a graph ;)
<adisbladis> Which has nodes!
<adisbladis> Technically correct
<bqv> Lmao
<JJJollyjim> please, we only have verticies here
<JJJollyjim> or is it edges
<JJJollyjim> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<adisbladis> Even more technically correct
<sphalerite> aren't vertices and nodes exactly the same thing and the choice is a question of preference?
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<eyJhb> Is it weird, that my cat is more afraid of my canned air, than the water spray bottle?
<joepie91> makes sense, it hisses
<eyJhb> joepie91: tested, the hissing sound is OK with her
<eyJhb> She just sat there watching, it is when it reaches her (the air) that she will go "hell nay" and run
<joepie91> hm
<joepie91> dunno then :D cats are weird
<__monty__> sphalerite: Afaik yes. Though vertices are a bit more ambiguous since they're also used in geometry. Don't think node has other common interpretations in math.
<eyJhb> Yuup joepie91 , there is no logic to them. Just strange behavior
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<hexa-> old news
<hexa-> closing statement is
<hexa-> > But then again, the last time something like this happened, it was Heartbleed and GnuTLS wasn't affected, so who knows...
<{^_^}> error: syntax error, unexpected THEN, expecting ')', at (string):318:5
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<gchristensen> sphalerite: btw sphalerite did you know you can put all sorts of fun characters in your zfs dataset names
<__monty__> They're not just valid path segments?
<gchristensen> not *that* fun
<hexa-> like a snowman?
<gchristensen> nah...
<gchristensen> but "tank/local/junk/foo: ...b-a_r is valid" is valid
<Valodim> way to build up expectations
<Valodim> haha ok that's pretty fun
<sphalerite> gchristensen: I bet that _totally_ isn't related to what you said about docker :D
<bqv> say i wanted to make it so that i only have network access on an opt-in basis for specific operations/programs/processes
<bqv> is there a nix-friendly way to go about such a thing
<gchristensen> lol
<gchristensen> sphalerite: nah, docker just made a gajillion zfs datasets
<bqv> maybe what i'm imagining is basically recreating qubes but using nix
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<gchristensen> bqv: I've been experimenting with this over the past few weeks
<bqv> oh, really?
<sphalerite> bqv: so https://spectrum-os.org/ ?
<gchristensen> bqv: https://github.com/grahamc/nixops-with-vbox/blob/master/network.nix#L55-L63 by starting systemd in a non-default network namespace it and nothing it starts ever sees a real network device
<hexa-> ❯ mkdir ☃
<hexa-> zfs really needs to step it up
<gchristensen> and then at th ebottom https://github.com/grahamc/nixops-with-vbox/blob/master/network.nix#L70-L96 I create a veth pair and move one of them in to systemd's ... or you could start specific processes in the network namespace with devices
<bqv> sphalerite: i like the idea, very much
<bqv> gchristensen: now i recall, i didn't realise this was what you were up to
<bqv> i might end up doing something similar
<bqv> very clever :D
<gchristensen> you give up networkmanager and user-friendly network device handling tools
<gchristensen> at least, I couldn't make them work
<gchristensen> they seem to all depend on dbus and udev, and I can't seem to make those work well in the "physical" namespace while systemd is in the "virtual" namespace
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<bkv> I never used networkmanager anyway
<bkv> So that's fine :D
<gchristensen> :)
<gchristensen> note: try this in a VM a few times first. it isn't so easy, and requires a lot of plying to get right. playing where you might want your fully functional laptop and network :)
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<bqv> yeah, that makes sense
<gchristensen> I think I want to create a namespace per network device, to make the iptables rules easier to clean up (just delete the namespace and it cleans up automatically)
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<gchristensen> a good chunk of this is motivated by (1) I get on client VPNs a lot, their routing rules are not the most respectful of the fact that I'm a contractor and might not want to use their intrusive VPN rules, (2) VPNs and tunnels are leaky by default and this could solve that and (3) I want to be able to roam between wifi and wired network without dropping connections
<bqv> ah, 3 sounds like a good reason for per-device ns
<gchristensen> the per-device ns is really just about making it easier to manage
<gchristensen> it lets you treat firewall rules and routes like memory: you can free() the whole block and not really think or worry about how to undo everything you did
<bqv> hm, yeah fair
<gchristensen> of course, any real wacky stuff you did to the device itself you have to figure out how to clean up -- unless maybe you can tell Linux to unbind and rebind the device? you can do that with USB devices .... might be cool to figure that out.
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<bkv> I would really love to have my pc not crash every 10 minutes :|
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<gchristensen> that seems extensive
<sphalerite> gchristensen: how do you do your CA URL thing? I'm considering taking some "inspiration" from the idea… :)
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<sphalerite> neat, ty :)
<gchristensen> yep!
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<bqv> I've been using ipfs for that
<bqv> Though nixos's ipfs seems to regularly get into a broken state, so I just wipe the database every start
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<gchristensen> ow
<gchristensen> I ran ipfs once, like over a year ago, and I still get people trying to talk to my node
<hexa-> yeah, that is the ipfs experience
<hexa-> i think it's a pretty cool project, but it's not really useful right now
<hexa-> projects like decentraleyes could make heavy use of ipfs by dropping all kinds of third-party js/css into ipfs and then pull it from there instead of from google etc.
<gchristensen> true
<gchristensen> surprisingly I have only managed to upload a few hundred things via my CA script
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<bqv> do any of you use nix on an ssd?
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<gchristensen> probably most of us
<srk> yup
<infinisil> ^
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<bqv> really? huh
<bqv> any downsides?
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<bqv> i have an ssd, but it's got windows on it at the moment
<bqv> i'm tempted to at least put /nix on it
<infinisil> It's just faster storage? Why would there be downsides?
<bqv> ssd's die out faster, no?
<bqv> or back when i bought mine, they did
<bqv> people would not put volatile stuff on ssds to preserve their life
* infinisil hasn't heard about that
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<bqv> ok well guess my store's going on the ssd
<bqv> ...wonder if i should just extend my btrfs volume, or make a new one
<srk> it has some flags for ssds
<bqv> btrfs? or nix?
<srk> btrfs - I'm using options = [ "noatime" "nodiratime" "discard=async" ];
<srk> discard=async is the most recent adition, requires new kernel
<bqv> i'm on latest, that's fine
<bqv> and i actually just added the first two to my /nix subvol anyway
<srk> yeah no point since we're computing like it's 1970
<bqv> srk: so, you think new volume or keep them on the same volume?
<bqv> (can i pin a subvolume to a specific device)
<srk> not sure
<srk> started using it only recently, create few subvols, haven't touched it since then much
<bqv> hmm
<srk> I might try snapshotting / rollbacks on boot at some point
<srk> which is probably the only reason to use it on single drive vs ext4
<bqv> well, i dunno about that
<bqv> there are a whole lot of other reasons
<srk> (for me) I hope perfomance is better than ext4s but haven't done any benchmarks
<bqv> heh
<srk> CoW/dedup is nice of course :)
<sphalerite> srk: also send/receive for backups!
<srk> mmm :) wish I had a NAS to send em to
<gchristensen> bqv: early SSDs were relatively low quality severely underprovisioned, modern SSDs have higher quality flash and have a lot more extra memory to handle failures
<bqv> hmm ok
<bqv> so it's just not an issue now
<bqv> hopefully mine's up to scratch
<sphalerite> bqv: I've never had an SSD fail on me even though I had an early one. As for nix usage patterns, shouldn't really be a problem I think.
<bqv> awesome
<bqv> now i need to work out how to move my nix store
<bqv> actually, if i change options.filesystems without restarting, it won't try anything drastic will it
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<eyJhb> True off-topic, finally done changing the exhaust for my car. Soo many things being basically rust complicates matters
<philipp[m]1> Congrats^!
<bqv> eyJhb: perhaps you should use Go instead then :p
<eyJhb> bqv: That may be what fixed the problem! Just GOing at it
<eyJhb> Including, just breaking stuff off, because it wasn't really connected anymore :p
<samueldr> but rust is better for cars
<eyJhb> Thanks philipp[m]1 !
<samueldr> it makes the cargo vroom
<bqv> oh no
<philipp[m]1> It seams like something that doesn't need to be compiled would have helped.
<philipp[m]1> Taking it apart is usually the easy part.
<eyJhb> All the Rust jokes, props :p
<eyJhb> philipp[m]1: actually, there are rubber thingies which comes from hell. So it sucks both ways
<eyJhb> Especially when working on the ground
<eyJhb> But it sounds a lot better know, does not melt the plastic on the car and I don't get the exhaust fumes into the car. So yay on not dying without knowing!
<drakonis> now that's an author i didnt expect to see in here
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* colemickens is going to melt
<ldlework> I think I have conceived of some software that would help learning how to play stringed instruments.
<gchristensen> colemickens: I hear it is toasty over that way. 33C here, but the humidity is manageable -- just 50%
<gchristensen> ldlework: oh yeah?
<samueldr> good thing it's covered and raining, 27°C 85+% humidity for the day
<ldlework> Yeah it's a bit hard to articulate, but yeah for each stringed insturment, when you look at their pedagogy, there is always this area to it, where you can learn to use reusable shapes which "implement" the underlying theories which produce them. For example, it doesn't matter what song-key you're in, the major scale, as an example, is always built from the same intervals (spaces between the
<ldlework> notes). When you apply that interval pattern to a given instrument you get a certain shape.
<samueldr> at least with dehumidifying inside, since the sun isn't heating in as much, it's good
<gchristensen> ldlework: I met this guy Evan who made this: https://ofb.net/~elaforge/karya/doc/overview.md.html
<gchristensen> (barely relevant)
<ldlework> It looks like a tracker, with help to arrange for specific instruments. Neat.
<ldlework> But yeah this is more to help you learn the "shape methods" of whatever instrument is on hand.
<ldlework> Instead of rearticulating shape methods for individual instruments, just code up a generalized visuzlier of those methods.
<ldlework> I actually implemented a basic version of this back in the day, https://codepen.io/ldlework/pen/BKvmEx
<gchristensen> it is compositional and emulation software for Javanese music
<ldlework> But only for scale shapes.
<ldlework> But I just realized, that the generalization goes much further. To chord shapes, and passing tones and the like.
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<ldlework> You should be able to specify the key of a song, get all of the chords in that key, select out a chord progression from that key, and be able to visualize not only the root scale, but also the various passing and chord tones for that chord progression!
<ldlework> I wonder if I could make a product out of it too. Like, tempt people by limiting them to only to say pentatonics, only allowing some degrees of the scale for progressions, not showing passing tones, etc.
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<infinisil> SpaceX doing a static fire test in ~30 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNlS-mgyJAE
<philipp[m]1> gchristensen: sent me down a little rabbit hole about Javanese music. Very interesting stuff!
<gchristensen> :D
<eyJhb> infinisil: thougt it was the official stream
<eyJhb> Wondered why they were playing kerbal space program
<infinisil> Hehe
<infinisil> Couldn't find an official stream
<infinisil> Might be a little (or a lot) longer than 30 minutes unfortunately
<eyJhb> Damn
<eyJhb> But my dishwasher will still be going, so I will be up
<eyJhb> Currently that dick, that has it going at 00:51. But nobody is home in the apartments around me
<joepie91> eyJhb: wait, surely a dishwasher doesn't make much noise?
<joepie91> afaik the water flow/spray sound is precisely the kind of sound that carries through neither concrete nor lightweight walls
<eyJhb> No clue, I can hear it quite clear with the door closed. But I have never gotten a complain so far. Normally I will just not start it after 21 anyways
<Ashy> any chance of getting this one reviewed and merged sometime? https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/92113
<{^_^}> #92113 (by AshyIsMe, 3 weeks ago, open): paraview: Fix dataset filtering
<bqv> hm wonderful, gonna replace my HDD with the SSD i have and another new one
<bqv> Rest in pieces, spinning rust
<Ashy> bqv: welcome to the good life :)
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<bqv> i'm just trying to figure out what partition layout i'll use
<bqv> 1TB drive + 250G drive
<bqv> nix store on the lil one, i guess
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<joepie91> living on the edge, I see
<bqv> howso?
<joepie91> nix stores have a tendency of growing :P
<joepie91> anyway, /me should be off to bed
<bqv> mine is currently only 60G
<samueldr> depends on how much bqv's activities relies on building
<bqv> i reckon it's plenty
<bqv> too much, if anything
<samueldr> my nix store on my main building machine is ~700GiB full
<bqv> do you ever gc?!
<samueldr> yes
* bqv !
<samueldr> though my work involves building full images
<samueldr> so I have multiple artifacts of 1~3GiB depending
<samueldr> hm, I might be off by 1 or 2 hundred
* bqv !!
<samueldr> forgot that I have something else (temporarily for a couple months) on the drive
* samueldr launches ncdu