gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
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<infinisil> Okay so I finally figured out (one) reason I was having network problems
<infinisil> It was the Deluge bittorrent client
<infinisil> Whose configuration I last changed more than 2 months ago..
<infinisil> And I also didn't update nixpkgs for almost 2 month
<infinisil> s
<infinisil> Sooooo... what??
<infinisil> I might need to start bisecting torrents lol
<aleph-> Lol
<gchristensen> gosh how many isos do you fetch
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<jackdk> every linux distro ever released from the sounds of it
<aleph-> Snrk
<samueldr> it's like they're actively trying to make the platform be wonky
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<infinisil> Okay I give up for now
<infinisil> While disabling all torrents makes the network be alright, and enabling all of them makes the network go bad, almost anything inbetween is murky and not deterministic
<infinisil> I also tried changing all network settings, changing ports, whether random ones should be chosen, all kinds of weird network features, encryption, how many connections are allowed, etc.
<infinisil> And they all don't change above result (well connection amount does help, but torrenting won't be very useful with 1 connection)
<infinisil> Next step for tomorrow: See if this doesn't happen with older deluge versions
<infinisil> Hold on, low maximum connection amount might be it
<infinisil> Or not
<infinisil> Pretty sure this is just the torrent god telling me to stop now
<Ralith> sounds like an overloaded consumer router
<infinisil> Hm true that might be something like that
<infinisil> Ohhh actually that would kind of make sense
<infinisil> Because I've had such problems for a long while, and previously I worked around it by using a VPN
<infinisil> Meaning the router didn't have to deal with any TCP connections itself
<infinisil> And my VPN server just went down a few days ago, without any way to bring it back up quickly, meaning all those connections are now going over the normal router
<infinisil> That kind of brings all puzzle pieces together
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<infinisil> So, my internet troubles are solved, I learned multiple things:
<infinisil> - When the payment fails, online.net blocks your server without any email, and they don't even tell you that it's blocked since you can't access the console during that time either
<infinisil> - deluge uses a whole lot of connections, which is probably the cause for my long-running internet problems at home because my router can't cope with it
<infinisil> s/deluge uses/any torrent client can use
<infinisil> - A VPN can be used to get around this because it defers the connection handling to another machine
<infinisil> (the last two are a bit speculative)
<infinisil> And out of all that, I got myself a nice new and shiny openvpn NixOS module: https://github.com/Infinisil/system/blob/master/config/new-modules/openvpn.nix
<infinisil> (doesn't really have anything to do with the problem, I just nerdsniped myself when I saw the poor old module)
<infinisil> (the new module could also be improved still though)
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<infinisil> Someday (tm) I'll upstream parts of my modules :)
<andi-> I hate that part of consumer routers. They don't tell you how many packets per second, TCP flows, … the device is capable of. Running a router with >=512MB of RAM makes all those issues go away. 2019 and we still have those issues :/
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<joepie91> infinisil: be aware that Online.net's billing department is a nightmare in general. I can strongly recommend making very sure that you never have to deal with it :)
<joepie91> (eg. by checking explicitly that all your payments go through, yourself)
<joepie91> they have a bit of a... reputation... for being unwilling to work with people, and then blaming those people for shit that breaks on their end, debt collectors and all
<joepie91> I've heard multiple stories now of people getting debt collectors sent after them because Online's payment system stopped accepting their CC and the billing dept only gave them canned responses
<tilpner> Can confirm, Scaleway is online.net, and their billing is weird and broken. No debt collectors, but still
<tilpner> "Hey, you owe us $2, but we no longer accept your credit card that you were able to add in our management UI"
<tilpner> "Any other way I can pay you?" "No, we'll ban you now"
<ivan> infinisil: some routers can't handle DHT
<__monty__> ivan: What do you mean? Isn't internet access sufficient condition to run a DHT?
<__monty__> *node
<etu> srhb: I'm hanging in Malmö at the moment, will do that tomorrow as well. Leaving early Monday morning.
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<ivan> __monty__: too much UDP to many different IPs
<ivan> (mostly particularly crap routers)
<__monty__> Sounds like routers that can't handle being routers tbh.
<ivan> a lot of the US is running very old consumer cable/DSL equipment
<__monty__> Really? I associate the US with google fiber tbh.
<ivan> hahaha
<ivan> that's available in a few cities, it stopped expanding a while ago
<ivan> most of the US also has a 1TB/mo transfer cap
<__monty__> I'm at 150GB/mo -_-
<ivan> ouch
* joepie91 is quite happy with his unmetered 200/200
<pie_> manveru: oh my goddddd that slide xD https://youtu.be/2SAQNO46V3U?t=155
<__monty__> 150GB/mo at 50/5Mbps at 55euro/mo
<__monty__> Roads and internet are better no matter which of our borders you cross...
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<infinisil> joepie91: Yeah this online.net router is a cheapo one and I don't put important stuff there
<joepie91> right :)
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<pie_> joepie91: xpost:
<pie_> >>> banana"
<pie_> "ehe: > document.write(('b' + 'a' + + 'a' + 'a').toLowerCase());
<joepie91> pie_: it's a pretty badly designed joke :P it would have been much less obvious if the B and A strings had been uppercase
<joepie91> (this evaluates as 'ba' + (+'aa'), ie. using unary +, which coerces the latter into a number, but it isn't, therefore it becomes NaN, which gets coerced back into a "NaN" string and then lowercased)
<joepie91> er
<joepie91> got some things wrong there
<joepie91> with the parens
<joepie91> but you get the point :P
<joepie91> 'ba' + (+ 'a') + 'a'
* __monty__ 'members PHP
<joepie91> pie_: anyway, the toLowerCase kinda spoils what's going on :(
<joepie91> there's obviously no uppercase characters in the string literals, which means it must be in the "nan" bit, which, well...
<joepie91> there you go :P
<infinisil> joepie91: I guess the real joke is that this is the most popular language used
<infinisil> :P
<gchristensen> ...
<{^_^}> tc39/proposal-ptc-syntax#22 (by mathiasbynens, 2 years ago, open): Is this proposal dead?
<ivan> (video reminded me that Safari is the only one with PTC)
<eyJhb> infinisil: how have you setup your VPN on your Router? It is NixOS, right?
<infinisil> No the VPN is an external server
<eyJhb> Damn...
<eyJhb> Thinking about converting my setup to NixOS. But I think the VPN part is the most annoying
<infinisil> Ah you run a VPN server on your router?
<infinisil> What for?
<eyJhb> Nope, VPN Client on the router for portforwarding
<eyJhb> Because my WAN is actually a LAN
<eyJhb> (shared connection)
<eyJhb> Also, not fun testing it, since I will have no ethernet in the meantime :p But of course I could set it up without portforwarding+VPN, but.. Then no Plex
<infinisil> eyjhb: Hm still not quite getting it why you need to do this for port forwarding
<infinisil> Might have to get phone tethering while changing the internet setup :)
<eyJhb> infinisil: My network -> Router -> Shared network with the other residents (LAN) -> WAN. So I cannot directly route anything to WWW, as I have a shared IP :)
<eyJhb> I actually think my OPO is too broken to exchange WiFi, that is at least my experience :p
<eyJhb> So for portforwarding, I have my router (pfSense) connected to a VPN (VPS some place), which receives packets, forwards them to my router, and then to my server and vice versa
<infinisil> Ah so you use this to be able to access your network from outside?
<eyJhb> Yeah :p
<eyJhb> For SSH and Plex basically. And, other stuff sometimes
<infinisil> SSH reverse port forwarding would be an option too
<eyJhb> Yeah, and more lightweight. My original reason for VPN was that I wanted every client on my network to use VPN, but as my provider is under constant DDoS, that was not a option
<eyJhb> But generally, I just want X, Y and Z to be forced to use VPN, and then I might as well use it for forwarding as well
<infinisil> I see
<eyJhb> But wondering if it is worth the hassle to setup on NixOS again.. But would still be nice, as it is easier to reproduce
<sphalerite> eyjhb: can recommend rolling your own vpn with tinc :p
<eyJhb> sphalerite: well, currently rolling my own with OpenVPN :p But if it is easier to setup, then why not :p
<sphalerite> ah right
<sphalerite> I think it's easier to set up, though it's also longer ago that I set up an openvpn thing
<sphalerite> but also meshing is cool
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<__monty__> sphalerite: Does tinc do nat traversal? I.e., can you connect machines without having one that's accessible by all?
<joepie91> __monty__: yes
<joepie91> for a direct connection only one side needs to be accessible
<joepie91> and you can route via other nodes
<joepie91> in the case that neither side is
<joepie91> the base model is essentially a meshnet, not a gateway setup
<__monty__> joepie91: Simple scenario, machine A behind NAT, machine B behind NAT. What other node would I use?
<joepie91> __monty__: if those are the only two nodes you have (and you cannot portforward), you have a problem. but if there is a machine C that isn't behind NAT or that can be portforwarded, traffic can be routed A <-> B <-> C
<joepie91> eh
<joepie91> A <-> C <-> B
<__monty__> No DHT based workarounds?
<joepie91> not that I know of
<__monty__> Ok, thanks.
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<sphalerite> __monty__: do you know about toxvpn?
<__monty__> Yes, it's what I use currently and it's awesome! But meshing's yet awesomer : )
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<drakonis> this looks like a fun thing
<drakonis> reinventing nix though
<gchristensen> poorly even
<drakonis> fhs compatibility seems important to him tho
<drakonis> there are some things done here that could be used for nix on the other hand
<drakonis> so, he had previously used nixos
<gchristensen> really?
<drakonis> yes
<gchristensen> cool
<gchristensen> "nix-env -i perl5.28.2-ack" :(
<gchristensen> "39e9186422ba:/# time sh -c 'nix-channel --update && nix-env -i qemu-4.0.0'" :(
<gchristensen> of only he'd seen the warning, "don't use -i. use -iA"
<drakonis> the only thing i'd like to have with nix is being able to run fhs applications, its the biggest pain :(
<drakonis> everything else is fine and good-ish
<drakonis> printers arent working again
<joepie91> Aug 17 22:41:44 machine-borg2-01.cryto.net mwdcwinxw02nq7xmkb64wcl354fsf5bc-unit-script-network-link-tinc.cryto-start[821]: bringing up interface... Cannot find device "tinc.cryto"
<joepie91> what the heck
<joepie91> it's the configuration itself that's supposed to create that device!
<joepie91> I have no idea what went wrong there, manually running the services afterwards worked fine
<__monty__> drakonis: buildFHSUserEnv isn't user friendly? joepie91 was working on something that seemed similar to me.
<drakonis> don't you still have to package dependencies?
<joepie91> __monty__: ah, you're thinking of depfish
<joepie91> yeah, though I haven't gotten back to that recently
<drakonis> there was a day i wanted to play freespace, but it had three dozen unpackaged python pieces
<joepie91> but that's less "magically package these things" and more "magically figure out which nixpkgs packages we need to run this thing"
<drakonis> i'm trying to figure out a decent way to run other distros inside a container and run binaries inside them
<drakonis> seems like a mostly okay solution?
<drakonis> nvidia makes everything harder
<adisbladis> drakonis: You don't even need containers for that.
<drakonis> do tell
<adisbladis> I'll usually just debootstrap & chroot
<drakonis> hm, neat.
<adisbladis> drakonis: If you want something more "full fledged" you can debootstrap & use systemd-nspwan
<drakonis> i've been trying that
<adisbladis> systemd-nspawn*
<drakonis> but it isn't working as it should
<drakonis> i have a couple graphical applications i need to get running
<drakonis> but my gpu is a nvidia, so i'm getting annoyed at it not working properly
<drakonis> how strange, systemd-nspawn -b worked now
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<pie_> nixos
<pie_> the kind-of-reproducible operating system
<joepie91> lol
<drakonis> lol
<drakonis> i got the container to work
<drakonis> running graphical applications from inside it, finally
<drakonis> time to get audio in it
<drakonis> it lives
<drakonis> metal as heck
<pie_> need to gamify nixos so i know who has what skills..
<drakonis> that'd be a fun experiment tho
<drakonis> excuse me while i go play freespace 2
<pie_> we need character sheets
<pie_> :V
<drakonis> yes we do
<drakonis> let's set up a rpg channel
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<jackdk> make sure you stat up ofborg and r-ryamtm too