<samueldr>
and by eschewing text-based lossy representations, it's probably easier to make different unthinkable paradigms to edit the codebase
<V>
so many UI elements, pieces of tooling, language design, etc all rely on 1-dimensionality and ordering, and it's so bad
<samueldr>
V: as in, code is a 1-dimensional line with references back?
<V>
samueldr: yeah
<samueldr>
yep
<V>
javascript eschews this IIRC by letting you order functions arbitrarily
<V>
but say, C requiring you to predeclare functions to use them in the same file
<V>
there's people who will manage to argue this is somehow a feature, because it acts like a table of contents or whatever
<samueldr>
no, make the editor know about the content, and make it produce your table!
<V>
and then here's me quietly sobbing, wondering why the editor can't just show me that instead
<samueldr>
let the machine do the machine's work
<V>
this is already a thing with IDEs
<samueldr>
make think about the algorithm, not about indenting the code right, or placing braces, or semicolons, parens, and all friends
<samueldr>
yeah
<V>
yup
<samueldr>
but IDEs are a half-measure :)
<V>
of course!
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<V>
joepie91: yeah, it really doesn't. virality is a positive thing for getting people to access your content, not negative
<joepie91>
V: it's like billing a newspaper to place your ad!
<joepie91>
like, there's plenty of shit that Google actually does wrong, maybe they should go after that, instead of this complete nonsense :)
<V>
it does make sense for snippets (where google takes info from your website and skips the need for you to click through to it), since there they're both significantly reducing click-throughs and profiting from your content at the same time
<V>
but plain links? nah
<V>
joepie91: wow, XOD looks cute. a worry I have is that it would be too simplistic or limited, as many graphical programming languages aimed at being friendly to people who haven't coded before are
<V>
the comment at the bottom of the page makes me comfortable that they know their stuff at least
<joepie91>
V: it is relatively limited in featureset, but one thing that drew me to it is that it doesn't appear to be simplistic in *design*
<joepie91>
that is, it is limited for now, but not intended to stay that way, nor intended to be "for beginners" like scratch
<joepie91>
even with the limited featureset that is already pretty apparent
<samueldr>
one thing I want people to start thinking about: multi-level of comfort
<samueldr>
make big blocks for complexe behaviours linkable with nodes like that
<samueldr>
but also allow me to peek into it and modify it
<joepie91>
yeah
<samueldr>
or make my own big blocks
<V>
actually, hm. did I dream the bit about being beginner-friendly
<samueldr>
from tinier blocks
<V>
I can't find it now
<V>
samueldr: you're making me think of a minecraft mod
<joepie91>
samueldr: that's been an idea I've been messing with for a long time, and XOD appears to be following the same principle
<V>
actually, multiple minecraft mods
<samueldr>
that's something I would want to mess with, but uh... good luck finding time to mess with that idea :)
<joepie91>
it's unfortunate that it's still pretty limited and has a weird-ass architecture
<samueldr>
more pressing things to do
<joepie91>
samueldr: yeah I hope to free up more time in the near future by changing my freelance business model a bit
<joepie91>
among other things, to work on this more
<samueldr>
neat
<V>
cool :)
<joepie91>
but it's one thing to want to do that, and another thing for it to succeed :)
<joepie91>
the change in question would be to start doing fixed-time-allocation 'support packages' for open-source stuff, like help with dependencies (review, fixing them, picking them, whatever)
<joepie91>
as in, fixed price per month, fixed amount of hours of work per month, distributed among arbitrary number of people within an organization... that should hopefully allow me to overcommit my work hours a bit more
<joepie91>
leaving more time for this sort of stuff
<joepie91>
there seem to be a lot of dependency-related tasks within lots of companies that rot away on the todo mountain, so hopefully I can turn that into income
<joepie91>
(for JS)
<joepie91>
I guess it's a bit broader than dependencies anyway, with the usual code-review-y things I do, but the point is fixed-cost monthly support packages :P
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<joepie91>
anyhow, should also make for more stable income
<joepie91>
-> easier to allocate time for other things
<joepie91>
and also I'm rambling and should probably go to bed
<colemickens>
Minecraft has come up a few times, I hope people look into Veloren. I have tingly feelings about it being a big thing.
<joepie91>
oh, I still needed to look at that
<samueldr>
yeah, saw that a while ago, it sure looks interesting, letting it simmer to more of something though
<colemickens>
Even though I'm not really in that space, it just feels like a neat fusion - there's already a ton of work to show, there is a ton of thought being put into things like networking auth, the lead dev gave an interview and seems to have a cool philosophy for the world they want to build. There is rudimentary crafting too.
<colemickens>
They're adding (or just did add) WASM plugin support.
<colemickens>
It feels like it could easily tap into the areas minecraft and roblox tap into
<samueldr>
but, speaking of minecraft... ugh... people around me default to the bedrock version (not java)
<colemickens>
plus a portable rust powered code base, and an already neat community. Gives me a good vibe that I kinda trust.
<samueldr>
no linux version
<samueldr>
much inferior
<samueldr>
(yes, at some point versions of bedrock could run on Linux, but late december last year, no)
<colemickens>
I don't know about defaulting, but I don't think Java is available for Switches :(
<colemickens>
or maybe it is, I need to learn more if I'm going to play with my nephews
<infinisil>
Lmao: "Biden removes Trump's Diet Coke button from the Oval Office"
<joepie91>
colemickens: I'm especially curious what it'll do to Roblox. I've long been wondering about bridging between the creative-player community and the open-source dev community, and Veloren seems to be trying precisely that
<joepie91>
done right, I suspect it could cause real trouble for Roblox
<V>
samueldr: damn :( (re friends playing bedrock)
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<V>
hmmm
<V>
3 tabs to go
<V>
oh, I think I've seen veloren before?
<colemickens>
joepie91: I hope so! I jumped in and read around the code for handling the admin commands, and definitely felt like I could start jumping in and making changes if I wanted to. I haven't looked at the plugin system yet but I'm excited to keep an eye on it, especially as my nephews get a bit older.
* colemickens
feels awkward around git lfs though, when it comes to nix
<colemickens>
gchristensen: this is random but I noticed you're using buildkite and generating the json with nix (I think, I skimmed fast) - did you evaluate the other two Nix projects [nix-buildkite, nixkite] that are related to that?
<cole-h>
Buildkite can use yaml now, so (for ofborg infra at least), we're just manually echoing toml lol
<samueldr>
cole-h: json?
<cole-h>
fjdklsjkl
<cole-h>
s/toml/yaml/
<cole-h>
I realize yaml is a superset(?) of json
<samueldr>
AFAIUI
<cole-h>
It's a little easier to generate yaml with just echo / cat than json, so we do that :P
<samueldr>
ah, I would have assumed purely nix eval with builtins to json
<Peetz0r>
I have more gigabytes of ram than open tabs on my machines (...usually)
<samueldr>
I figure you must have at least 2GB of ram, or don't use tabbed browsing
<Peetz0r>
correct :p
<samueldr>
.oO( can you even do tabbed browsing in 1GB and less these days? )
<samueldr>
probably, but probably not in a fun way
<Peetz0r>
if you open about:blank in them, yes
<joepie91>
samueldr: yes
<Peetz0r>
no bot seriously, I have 32GB of ram and 13 open tabs on my desktop
<joepie91>
I don't think it's changed much in the past couple of years, and a couple of years ago I did tabbed browsing on a Pentium III with 384MB of RAM
<Peetz0r>
and 16 GB of ram and 6 open tabs on my laptop
<joepie91>
it was painful but worked
<samueldr>
joepie91: painful, to me, is unfun :)
<joepie91>
hm
<joepie91>
quite a few years ago by now
<joepie91>
but still :P
<samueldr>
I would assume you had swap, right?
<samueldr>
(I was not saying it, but I assumed without swap)
<Peetz0r>
lol I had something around those specs and I stopped using it (as a desktop) in 2006
<Peetz0r>
I kept using it as a server until 2011 I think
<samueldr>
in 2005 I upgraded from a pentium mmx 233mhz with 32MiB to a pentium m with 512MiB, that was fun
<V>
Peetz0r: I have 32GB. I had to expand this from the original 8 because it was chugging
<gchristensen>
colemickens: no I haven't, really
<Peetz0r>
in 2007 I upgraded from that Pentium 3 with 256 MB to a Pentium 4 with 1GB. Never had to turn on the heating sinc :p
<samueldr>
and yeah, really the crucial point is "these days"
<V>
joepie91: I would be *very* surprised to find anyone who has more tabs than me now
<samueldr>
since in 2005 I was doing tabbed browsing (on windows) on 32MiB
<Peetz0r>
V: didn't you just close them? :p
<V>
nope, I just did that to show the window
<V>
I currently have 8999 open
<V>
(I have a widget in my status bar that tells me how many there are at all times)
<samueldr>
I try to cull my tabs quite frequently
<Peetz0r>
fair nuff. But I'd shit my pants if I opened that without the intention of actually closing them if I actually had that many :p
<joepie91>
V: I had more a while ago, before I declared tab bankrupcy
<V>
(plus a delta, in a desperate ploy to get me to close more than I open)
<samueldr>
if it's research material, I "onetab" them
<Peetz0r>
Your list of open tabs has more data encoded in it than my entire hard drive probably :p
<joepie91>
V: this is basically what I've built up over amonth or so
<samueldr>
and then promptly forget about them forever
<V>
Peetz0r: eh, it's only like 100MB
<Peetz0r>
(okay that's a lie, I don';t have any actual hard drives in use atm)
<V>
samueldr: so there's research material, but also "this will be interesting for $other_research that I shouldn't get distracted with right now"
<Peetz0r>
V: huh, what's 100M? The actual list of 9000 urls would be much less, but all of the content would be much more, I guess?
<samueldr>
V: exactly, those get lost into either bookmarks or onetab :)
<{^_^}>
Found in packages: wirelesstools, bash-completion
<bbigras>
lovesegfault: is there an UI for iwd? Or a dmenu thing?
<lovesegfault>
idk, I use the cli
<lovesegfault>
iwctl
<lovesegfault>
it's really nice
<bbigras>
I always forget how to use iwctl
<lovesegfault>
station wlan0 scan on
<bbigras>
Like the device vs station commands
<lovesegfault>
station wlan0 get networks
<lovesegfault>
station I just use `help` and tab completion
<lovesegfault>
well, and now I know the ones I need
<lovesegfault>
station wlan0 ${scan,get-networks,connect}
<lovesegfault>
that's basically it
<bbigras>
I wonder if I used device when I wanted to know if I was connected or not
<lovesegfault>
station wlan0 show
<pie_>
i just ran into this psd2 2fa crap
<pie_>
im slowly being enticed by bitcoin
<pie_>
but i guess maybe old people will be harder to fraud so thats good i guess
<pie_>
neverminnd that they wont be able to buy anything lol
<pie_>
phones cause cancer just not how you usually think
<colemickens>
oh that reminds me, I did the networkd+resolved+iwd thing and its working well. no more nm :)
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<lovesegfault>
colemickens: that's what I use :D
<lovesegfault>
it works really well
<pie_>
...and i cant seem to get through the 2fa process
<samueldr>
pie_: s e c u r e
<pie_>
samueldr: protects my money from me
<ashkitten>
i need to figure out why there are so many different versions of wine in my system
<colemickens>
time for an intervention
<ashkitten>
where are the wine come from!!
<pie_>
at least it used to be that i want to throw the computer out the window because of problems i caused myself. not anymore.
<ashkitten>
i should clearly just get a threadripper 3990x
<ashkitten>
then i could build stuff like 10 times as fast
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<pie_>
or it may just be ebay crap. who knows.
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<V>
ashkitten: sounds like you should hit up alcoholics anonymous
<ashkitten>
ha
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<eyJhb>
colemickens: Any specific reason for switching?
<eyJhb>
ashkitten: Building three versions of wine -> free radiator?
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<V>
eyJhb: for me, leaving firefox open -> free radiator :p
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<ehmry>
someone know a place where I can crash in NL for a bit?
<ehmry>
ik heb geen chorona
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<energizer>
i dd'ed onto a partition, and i want to find out when the command finished. is that possible?
<supersandro2000>
have the date in your shell prompt
<supersandro2000>
*time
<V>
energizer: are we talking about a command that has already finished running, or do you want to be notified as soon as a currently running one does?
<energizer>
V: it already finished
<V>
which shell are you using
<energizer>
zsh
<ehmry>
energizer: ddrescue has nice progress indicators
<V>
ehmry: it's already finished
<V>
energizer: did you run this using sudo?
<energizer>
yes
<V>
look for "session closed for user root" in journalctl
<V>
journalctl -e to get straight to the end, then ?dd to find the sudo log for that
<V>
the pam session markers will be in close proximity
<V>
(and tell you exactly when it started and finished)
<supersandro2000>
progress should show you progress when you already started it
<V>
that would be useful if it was a future invocation, which it isn't
<energizer>
/\bdd\b found the open sudo[<pid here>] and then searching for the pid found the close
<energizer>
thanks V
<V>
np :)
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<jtojnar>
do you know what a “pauch” is?
<jtojnar>
wiktionary does not list it as English word
<bbigras>
isn't the paper clip easy to associate with an attachment?
<joepie91>
bbigras: the problem is that the attachment and link buttons in Google's design look visually similar
<joepie91>
and as I recently found out, I am far from the only one who constantly clicks the wrong one
<bbigras>
joepie91: my "point" was that if it was clear that the paper clip was for files, that it would be easy to guess that the other icon was for a URL. but I don't use those icons often so you people have probably a point in complaining.
<bbigras>
by my "point" I should have said "my thinking" or "my supposition".
<bbigras>
gchristensen: uh it's weird. in my test I got a 0 lease_duration but expire_time is tomorrow.
<bbigras>
I'm asking for feature requests on starship and powerlevel10k
<bbigras>
ah I think my token is not renewable
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<colemickens>
bbigras: you doing the vault thing!? nice! I got stuck on rpi4 and am determined to figure it out today
<bbigras>
colemickens: yeah I played with it a bit the other day. I tried the ssh key signing which is pretty cool. nice :)
<bbigras>
and I just tried login with github for vault. and using terraform to set vault. it sucks that the secrets can end up in the plan/state files.
<bbigras>
next I would like to try some dynamic creds
<joepie91>
gchristensen: whoopsiedoopsie they dun a fraudywaudy
<joepie91>
(ddos-guard)
<gchristensen>
uwu
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<cransom>
re: ddos-guard. a friend long ago was really wondering what stops anyone from advertising space from long defunct companies. he and someone worked at a company with a /16 that had long been gone. they tried to get it back legally (ish? kind of?) by incorporating under the same name to see if they could re-inherit it but there were some high hurdles.
<colemickens>
just got a bad etag error in nix, I think from a cachix
<__monty__>
colemickens: Recently saw domenkozar[m] talking about that. Afaict it's because nix makes erroneous assumptions about etags, so not specific to cachix.
<gchristensen>
I got it without cachix
<colemickens>
I stand corrected, thank you both.
<gchristensen>
rm -rf ~/.cache/nix works around it briefly
<__monty__>
Btw, my intent was to make it clear this is a known issue/being looked at afaict, not to chastise you.
<colemickens>
interesting it even looks like it happened on push
<colemickens>
__monty__: no worries, I took it as such, just like to be accurate especially when wondering aloud and attributing bugs to sw
<eyJhb>
,ping
<{^_^}>
pong
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<colemickens>
lovesegfault: if you don't mind me bugging you, is there anything I should have to do besides add to services.resolved.domains to add search domains? I see it listed in `resolvectl` but it doesn't seem to be used with `ssh`.
<colemickens>
oh never mind, I guess dig doesn't +search by default
<colemickens>
but maybe neither does ssh, what?
<V>
colemickens: I just have aliases for SSH and don't make use of DNS
<V>
Much simpler and less flaky
<colemickens>
it also seems that we make systemd depend on nscd? :/