<Peetz0r>
I have a label printer that doesn't even try to interface to anything else
<V>
wow, those guys really hate printers huh
<Peetz0r>
no driver issues, no tech support, no problems
<samueldr>
additionally using it "wrong"
<samueldr>
I'm suppose to download their android or iOS app
<samueldr>
and use their limited features
<ashkitten>
V: what a jam
<V>
;)
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<abathur>
I can't help but think "who hurt you?" when I read file headers like 'This file is echo.def, from which is created echo.c. It implements the builtin "echo" in Bash.'
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<abathur>
but, having cleaned up some weird messes, I also kinda feel like I know who hurt them, and should do more of it myself
<samueldr>
turns out that yes, I'm missing a component in the chain to get a PPD file
<{^_^}>
in T-4 minutes! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb57ySLWxos: Ping for space stuff (edit this command to add yourself, see ",help"): infinisil Taneb ldlework etu philipp[m] eyJhb gchristensen __red__ red red[evilred]
<infinisil>
"Blue Origin New Shepard NS-14 Launch & Landing"
BaughnLogBot is now known as Baughn
<infinisil>
Oh
<infinisil>
Sorry, replay
<infinisil>
Damnit
<infinisil>
False alarm, undo, undo!
<gchristensen>
I still can't deal with how much it looks like a water rocket
<infinisil>
Wait didn't I watch this a couple days ago
<infinisil>
Heck I did
<infinisil>
*disappointment*
<abathur>
lol
<abathur>
I wonder how many "Best N product" pages are really just generated with a seeded random
<samueldr>
Jan 19 21:13:27 ralphwiggum cupsd[10688]: Can\'t open Bluetooth connection
<samueldr>
the escape in the logs gives me full confidence in its XSS prevention measures
<samueldr>
or uh, injection
<samueldr>
not XSS
<infinisil>
Fun fact: ,escape is implemented by quoting every character first, then trimming it down as far as possible
<infinisil>
> "\h\e\l\l\o\ \t\h\e\r\e"
<{^_^}>
"hello \the\re"
<V>
huh
<infinisil>
Oh right, except \t, \r and \n's
<V>
for once, a fun fact is actually fun
<infinisil>
Actually no, it quotes everything *except* all letters to avoid this crap
<abathur>
ah, *chef's kiss*: a surge protector brand, named joule, whose website doesn't say how many joules
<abathur>
alanis should write a song about this
<samueldr>
partial success, it printed a 125mm long strip for a 12mm high print job
<siraben>
samueldr: what are you doing?
<V>
that's only an order of magnitude off
<V>
you're doing great :thumbsup:
<samueldr>
though I'm not surprised, gimp's print preview alluded to that, while inkscape's didn't
<samueldr>
siraben: trying to use a bluetooth label printer with NixOS
<V>
that honestly sounds terrifying
<siraben>
TIL bluetooth label printers are a thing
<siraben>
FWIW i haven't managed to print with NixOS yet, heh
<samueldr>
*if* I can manage to print on it properly, it might be worth it
<samueldr>
uses Tze tape, dirt cheap compared to other "real" printers that "should" interface with computers
<siraben>
omg I now want something I didn't know I needed
<samueldr>
it *could* be painful to use, if you end up buying
* colemickens
is learning how to use stock tracker discord bots, now, as a result of their cat attempting to occupy the same space as a large glass of water earlier today
* colemickens
is also looking into under-ceiling mounting options instead of under-desk mounting options :P
<abathur>
mounting a stock-tracker bot under your ceiling?
<V>
I thought that was for the cat
<colemickens>
hahahaha
<colemickens>
that some well-needed levity :)
<abathur>
under-desk mounting options reminds me
<abathur>
I am wanting for something that seems like it should exist: a surge protector that doesn't look like a plastic beluga whale--which can clamp or hang (but not screw) below or above--but absolutely not to the side--of a desk top
<abathur>
*with sufficient coverage for actual computing equipment, which seems to also be a sticking point
<samueldr>
abathur: you're searching for your white whale
<abathur>
I mean, I'll accept quite a few colors--but yes
<abathur>
my favorite are the ones that look like an ankle monitor for your desktop
<abathur>
\s
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<samueldr>
printer update: the cups driver sucks, there's a python script that just works
<samueldr>
(assuming you don't send oversized images, or pngs with transparency
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<samueldr>
joepie91: some amount is wasted between prints... by default... this script can make it print without the final feed, though you'll need the final label to have the feed or else it won't cut at the right location
<samueldr>
waste is approx 25mm per "feed"
<siraben>
TIL about 🗾
<siraben>
like the unicode character
<energizer>
i just imported a library and it checked online to see if a newer version was available
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<lovesegfault>
phew
<lovesegfault>
almost done with moving
* lovesegfault
is sore
* abathur
raises an eyebrow @ energizer
<abathur>
this may end up being a dumb question, but does anyone with a decent grip on C have a guess at how much effort it'd take to compile any given coreutil into bash as a builtin?
<samueldr>
I guess it's more about coreutil's design, no?
<samueldr>
if a given function is self-contained, then it should be pretty trivial AFAIK
<samueldr>
if it uses a bunch of helpers from within coreutils, less so
<abathur>
that's my rough guess, especially since at least some coreutils grew out of shell builtins
<lovesegfault>
Alright, if any of y'all are into wine a coravin is totally worth it
<lovesegfault>
Have been sipping on this bottle for a month now and it's indistinguishable
<samueldr>
(probably misusing some terminlogy) abathur: probably as complex as how many symbols it uses that are not from its own compilation unit
<lovesegfault>
pretty amazing
<abathur>
(I've been vaguely wondering if there's much time on the table at, say, hydra scale, by generating a build-bash with some of the most-common commands built in
<samueldr>
it sure is an interesting idea to fold in commonly used coreutils into bash itself
<samueldr>
would it make sense to, at that point, fold all of coreutils into bash rather than pick a few tools?
<samueldr>
bigger bash, but we were going to add a bunch of them anyway
<abathur>
it was something I noticed when I played around with the bash FUSE, which comes with a builtin--I'd never played with the "loadable" builtins
<energizer>
abathur: have you benchmarked any of them?
<samueldr>
and they already know how to live in a single binary, given coreutils is...
<samueldr>
uh... that thing...
<samueldr>
multi-call binary?
<abathur>
yeah, fair question, I'm not sure if it's relatively more/less work to split them or do them all
<samueldr>
abathur: I wonder how hard it'd be to make coreutils.so out of coreutils, and use ctypes.sh
<abathur>
hehe
<abathur>
well
<abathur>
there's already a concept of loadable builtins that are precompiled but added with 'enable' at runtime
<abathur>
but there's a fair amount of overhead when you first enable, like 2-400ms iirc
<abathur>
you can mitigate that by including many builtins in a single file
<Ke>
notably, if you want speed, many things can be done with pure bash
<Ke>
busybox can do many of the busybox commands without exec
<Ke>
yes
<Ke>
multicall
<Ke>
like reading files and finding and transforming output
<Ke>
so if you run ftruncate from busybox ash, there is no fork-exec only ftruncate syscall
<abathur>
but, I assume in a build context that enabling them for every bash invocation would chew through a fair slice of the gain
<Ke>
not sure bash is a thing you want consolidated this way
<Ke>
more like I do it, because I have no shame, but things that consolidate should move to a real programming language most of the time
<abathur>
right, but bash is the Nix build shell, so it's the fungible unit
<Ke>
hmm, you mean nix is considerably slowed down by bash?
<Ke>
because nix itself is dead slow
<Ke>
in my experience
<abathur>
oh, sure
<AMG>
"China has revealed a prototype for a new high-speed Maglev train that is capable of reaching speeds of 620 kilometers (385 miles) per hour"
<AMG>
wicked
<Ke>
and to note, I use nixos on aarch64
<samueldr>
savings in nix wouldn't affect builds, and vice versa
<samueldr>
saving in builds wouldn't affect nix evals
<abathur>
my question isn't so much about *me* getting speed
<samueldr>
yeah, is there some benefit to emphatten bash with more builtins *at hydra scale*
<Ke>
normally, if I get to the build phase, I don't do things interactively, so it does not matter
<abathur>
more like, at scale, is there enough on the table that it's worth the work
<Ke>
nix evaluation I often watch, so I am not really fair that way
<energizer>
but like, who's paying and do they care
<abathur>
i.e., without having to go rewriting all of the code
<Ke>
performance is not scientific time, but the use cases it allows for
<Ke>
either you wait for things or you need to get coffee
<samueldr>
this is a situation where the individual thinking a thought wouldn't work on the Nix eval side of things
<samueldr>
so it's no good to go "but you should instead work on Nix eval" or similar
<Ke>
maybe I shouldn't discourage others from doing things sure, if that's what you mean
<Ke>
GNU people will probably do that for me though
<Ke>
I made a patch for truncate that truncated a sparse file to trim out the sparse tail, maintainer said the patch should maybe go to fallocate, which is obviously wrong, as the syscall it finally makes is truncate
<Ke>
which better than the silence you get on most projects, never does anyone just tell you they don't want your path
<Ke>
patch
<abathur>
energizer: if you want to poke at the existing "example" loadable builtins, a few of which are also in coreutils (though generally skeletal in comparison), you can look in `/nix/store/*-bash-*/lib/bash/`
<abathur>
and then like, `enable <abspath> <builtin-name>` I think to load one
<JJJollyjim>
(they paused and resumed the count due to wind)
<JJJollyjim>
aw, theoretically i should have been able to see it out my window, but no luck
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<eyJhb>
infinisil: They can't just launch rockets at 03:15 at night?! That's not fair
<lovesegfault>
cable managed my stereo
<lovesegfault>
was quite a bit more work than antecipated
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<eyJhb>
lovesegfault: I hope without ziptipes?
<eyJhb>
Sorry worldofpeace :D
<worldofpeace>
eyJhb: my brain chemistry is just conducive to not sleeping at certain times
<worldofpeace>
oh
<worldofpeace>
alcohol is a powerful poison 😸
<worldofpeace>
I personally don't use it
<worldofpeace>
anyways, if u need advice on how to stay awake for 48hr I have sounds that u simply can't sleep through
<eyJhb>
I actually rarely do, and the reason might be quite obivious. But in general I just need a excessive amount of water to live.. So I guess that's why it screws me over.
<worldofpeace>
eyJhb: well, rarely doing so is probably in your best interest. it's terrible for the skin 🤓
<eyJhb>
That sounds like the kind of thing I could listen to when programming :p - That hasn't been a part of the considerations so far ! Might use that next time :p
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<worldofpeace>
lol, it's "PersonalComputer" music
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<lovesegfault>
eyJhb: yeah, zipties and little 3M ziptie hooks
<eyJhb>
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, why the ziptipes lovesegfault ?
<lovesegfault>
what else am I to use?
<eyJhb>
worldofpeace: So you are saying.. It's PC music? ;)
<lovesegfault>
those velcro ones get dusty as hell
<eyJhb>
Yeah, but they don't break your heart when you have to reorganise anything + most ziptipe setup if not all, have destroyed the cables... :(
<lovesegfault>
expensive AF, but it's a once-every-ten-years purchase that I have to look at every day, so I'm fine with it
<lovesegfault>
I really like the flat cable look
<eyJhb>
How did it break?
<eyJhb>
/why
<lovesegfault>
The posts on my speakers are kind of far, my old cables were terminated such that it made the banana plugs really tension the wire when plugged in
<lovesegfault>
so today when I was removing them to move it finally snapped out of the crimp
<lovesegfault>
after... idk... 6 years of being misused? :P
<siraben>
infinisil: I'm new to cloud instances, servers etc. would using NixOps be a good idea to get into it?
<siraben>
s/idea/way
<infinisil>
Hm not sure, nixops feels kind of.. deprecated? I'm not really sure what the best Nix-based approach is nowadays. I'm just using my own tool :P
<siraben>
infinisil: is that nixus?
<infinisil>
Yeah (check the comment I linked ;))
<siraben>
What other alternatives are there to NixOps?
<{^_^}>
in ~50 minutes, starlink: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84Nct_Q9Lqw: Ping for space stuff (edit this command to add yourself, see ",help"): infinisil Taneb ldlework etu philipp[m] eyJhb gchristensen __red__ red red[evilred]
<eyJhb>
FINALLY! All my nix configs are up-to-date and tracked!
<eyJhb>
ANd ran nixfmt on it :3
<Taneb>
Nice!
<philipp[m]>
High chance of vrooom, low chance of booom?
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<eyJhb>
I will not be home for the vroooom... Going out the door :(
<eyJhb>
Heading out* damn it
<philipp[m]>
Good luck of neither vroooom or booooom happening to you while you are out.
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<philipp[m]>
webcast has started.
<infinisil>
Ayy, have it running in the background
<infinisil>
T-12 minutes
<philipp[m]>
Alright, they are done with the teary stuff.
<philipp[m]>
T-5 minutes
<infinisil>
,launch
<{^_^}>
Ping for space stuff (edit this command to add yourself, see ",help"): infinisil Taneb ldlework etu philipp[m] eyJhb gchristensen __red__ red red[evilred]
<__monty__>
"Both vehicles are falling down on nominal trajectories?" Does the second stage count as falling with the engine on?
<infinisil>
__monty__: Hmm maybe they mean the fairings?
<__monty__>
But then why not three?
<__monty__>
One must be stage-1, no?
<infinisil>
Well the upper stage isn't falling right
<__monty__>
Do winds me we're probably getting a boom?
<infinisil>
"Win limits"? "Wing limits"?
<__monty__>
Everything in space is technically falling. I just don't know whether that's the terminology they use.
<__monty__>
Wind limits?
<__monty__>
s/me/mean
<infinisil>
Ah
<infinisil>
Landing \o/
<infinisil>
Oh, I wasn't live the whole time lol
<infinisil>
Like a minute behind
<srk>
any good examples of haproxy/replicated postgresql/similar HA using nix setups out there?
<__monty__>
Oh, that prompts a question. Does anyone have use a fairly generic replicated DB setup for things like calendaring or even secrets/passwords?
<__monty__>
*here
<tilpner>
Why do you want it to be generic? You'll have to write all the integrations yourself then
<tilpner>
(pass+git, and caldav via radicale aren't generic, but they work)
<philipp[m]>
or even that dav server that uses git as storage.
<__monty__>
Just asking. Figured maybe someone would be using vault that way.
<__monty__>
I'm not asking because I want this. More interested in UX and motivations for doing this.
<__monty__>
What holds me back from using radicale for example is I have no stable, always connectable box. Afaict replicated DBs are the closest thing to dealing with this problem.
<tilpner>
No Pi you can leave at someones home?
<__monty__>
Already have a server somewhere. I can't get a reliable connection though.
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<eyJhb>
Did it go vrooom? :o A good vrooom?
<philipp[m]>
It was a an excellent vroom.
<philipp[m]>
They even vroomed back right into the center of the barge in heavier wind than they ever did before.
<eyJhb>
Sad :( Wanted to see it
<__monty__>
:'( Why is homebrew's mpv building rust.
<eyJhb>
^ me a lot of time when I use Nix
<eyJhb>
But it is usually more like, why am I currently building the entire world
<lukegb>
Me: why is everything being compiled
<lukegb>
Also me: haha stdenv = clangStdenv; go brrrr
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<infinisil>
Hm, how about constraint solvers that take function types as input
<infinisil>
So e.g., you can have a constraint that `someLibrary.someFunction has type Int -> Int`
<infinisil>
Or is that a bad idea? Maybe it is
<gchristensen>
I don't understand
<infinisil>
Say you need function `someFunction 10` in your code, and you expect it to return an integer
<infinisil>
Now you don't really care about the version number of the library that provides this function, you only care about the fact that you can call it successfully (mostly)
<infinisil>
So why not use that as a constraint for the dependency
<infinisil>
Instead of `someLibrary > 1.5 && <= 1.8`, you specify e.g. `someLibrary.someFunction :: Int -> Int`, along with all other functions that you need
<adisbladis>
samueldr: Wow that phone screen is so sweet
<adisbladis>
(the e-ink one)
<adisbladis>
It arrived this morning
<eyJhb>
Gz on the new president US
<adisbladis>
Colours aren't very great, but that was expected
<sphalerite>
adisbladis: I thought you were talking about the president and was confused.
<adisbladis>
sphalerite: I do not care about the colours on presidents :D
<eyJhb>
I know this is US, but it seems weird to me, that to say stuff like "whatever you believe in", and then tell people to pray together, etc..
<__monty__>
infinisil: You can kinda reduce the one to the other. Like parts of the JS ecosystem.
<__monty__>
If every package has only one function then constraints on signatures and versions are equivalent.
<infinisil>
Hmm I see yeah
<__monty__>
So it just means you have a *lot* more constraints.
<infinisil>
I guess you'd need tooling to infer them automatically
<__monty__>
Though also, sometimes you don't care about the signature just that `f . g` is compatible.
<__monty__>
So it probably gets a lot more complicated.
<joepie91>
infinisil: signature doesn't encompass function semantics though
<joepie91>
the semantics may very well change without the function signature doing so
<__monty__>
Yeah, but I don't think there's much hope we can specify constraints on semantics any time soon?
<__monty__>
Maybe property based testing should be part of the constraint language : )
<infinisil>
How about we flip it on its head: Every time a dependency gets a new commit, it compiles and runs tests for all reverse dependencies
<infinisil>
And it adds a constraint like "before commit <hash>" to them
<infinisil>
I guess not function-based, but like, better than versions
<__monty__>
"It builds" actually sounds like something that could be added on top of constraint solving. It's just really expensive so maybe not practical.
<__monty__>
Hmm, could this be crowd sourced?
<__monty__>
Probably not, combinatorial explosion's just too great.
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<infinisil>
__monty__: Kind of similar to nixpkgs actually, how hydra can't rebuild everything for every single commit
<infinisil>
And we need to guess which commit broke something
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<eyJhb>
talyz: seems like I lost the ability to use nixos-rebuild switch in general, as I get a systemd error each time I do a switch as "the file already exists"
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<samueldr>
joepie91: in cas you missed it, since you wanted to be informed about it, that label printer does work well with Linux, assuming you don't "print" to it, but rather use a script that does it for you
<samueldr>
and waste is uh... not that big, 25mm between prints so the label can be cut at the right location, which the script can prevent if you were to print multiple labels in succession
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<joepie91>
samueldr: oh sorry, totally forgot to read back my highlights
<samueldr>
no worries :)
<joepie91>
samueldr: 25mm end waste is unfortunately the same as on the other cheapos, and what I'd like to avoid :(
<samueldr>
yeah, that's because it prints "inside" the cartridge
<joepie91>
I believe the more expensive ones have less waste
<samueldr>
yeah, likely
<samueldr>
though I wouldn't expect less than 10mm waste
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<lovesegfault>
gchristensen: what are you doing to hydra?
<gchristensen>
right now, my goals are : I'm looking at normalizing the schema a bit: moving evaluation errors in to the JobsetEval table... copying the nixexpr input and path in to the jobseteval table, and deleting it from the builds table... also things that refer to other tables using strings, I'd like to refer with IDs...
<gchristensen>
maybe some other bigger things, but not sure they're possible yet
<lovesegfault>
nice :) gchristensen++
<{^_^}>
gchristensen's karma got increased to 416
<lovesegfault>
next: new build scheduler :D
<gchristensen>
hehe
<gchristensen>
having hydra's database snapshots being continuously streamed to my server is really nice f or this
<gchristensen>
I'm able to experiment with migrations against production data which isn't even 5 minutes old: 2021-01-20 21:12:07.815 UTC [9376] LOG: last completed transaction was at log time 2021-01-20 21:10:00.756156+00
<samueldr>
cheater
<samueldr>
;)
<samueldr>
with true enterprise development you're working with partial data from months old dumps
<gchristensen>
:P
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<gchristensen>
it is worth noting that I pay for this bandwidth and disk space, literally, with not a small amount of my bandwidth going to it
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<colemickens>
y
<infinisil>
About T-10 minutes until static fire
<eyJhb>
WAIT, WHERE DOES IT GO VROOOOM infinisil ?
<infinisil>
,launch static fire in a couple minutes, maybe ^
<{^_^}>
static fire in a couple minutes, maybe ^: Ping for space stuff (edit this command to add yourself, see ",help"): infinisil Taneb ldlework etu philipp[m] eyJhb gchristensen __red__ red red[evilred]
<philipp[m]>
Give vrooom!
<gchristensen>
thanks, infinisil!
<infinisil>
"That looks like a detank vent, please stop that" - Everyday Astronaut
<infinisil>
ABORT ABORT
<philipp[m]>
They are not giving vrooom, it seems.
<philipp[m]>
ABORT THE ABORT AND MAKE IT GO VROOOOM!
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<joepie91>
,locate pdfbook
<{^_^}>
Found in packages: texlive.combined.scheme-full, texlive.combined.scheme-medium
<joepie91>
I'll take it
<eyJhb>
out of stock joepie91.
<joepie91>
eyJhb: look, I understand it's a bulky item, but,
<gchristensen>
...this local database thing might not be soooo useful.
<joepie91>
sheesh. it's still downloading
<eyJhb>
Texlive is huuuugeee
<eyJhb>
:(
<joepie91>
.... this is gonna compile the world, isn't it
<joepie91>
I just want to make pdf booklets :(
<eyJhb>
We are all software gods sometimes. It is said, that on the first day, we compiled the world.
<LinuxHackerman>
nah not much to compile, just looooads of small things to download
<joepie91>
oh that didn't take that long
<joepie91>
yeah
<eyJhb>
Any good keys to bind for screenshotting in i3? Looking for recommendations :p
<LinuxHackerman>
printscreen
<gchristensen>
alt-shift-3/alt-shift-4 are what macos uses
endformationage has joined #nixos-chat
<LinuxHackerman>
huh, I thought it was cmd-shift-[34]?
<gchristensen>
oh yeah
<samueldr>
you could bind a key, then end up always launching your screenshot script through the launcher anyway like me
<gchristensen>
^
<eyJhb>
I don't even think I have printscreen on my keyboard.. :(
<eyJhb>
Hhaha perfect samueldr !
<LinuxHackerman>
eyJhb: don't you have a thinkpad? A lot of them have printscreen between right alt and right ctrl
<gchristensen>
;_; somebody buy me 60T of nvme, my queries are dying
* LinuxHackerman
starts a gofundme for gchristensen
<samueldr>
oh, right, that is indeed a reference to it
* elvishjerricco
is watching marcan reverse engineer the M1 on his youtube stream, pretending to have a clue wtf is going on
<samueldr>
elvishjerricco: you pretending, him pretending, both? :)
<samueldr>
lol, I join in and it starts with
<samueldr>
"hmmmmmmmmmmm"
<samueldr>
then silence
<elvishjerricco>
samueldr: Mostly me. But he also seems to have no idea what is going on... albeit it at a much more sophisticated level :P
<elvishjerricco>
I think he's just trying to get uart working, but the interrupts aren't working how he thought they would
* elvishjerricco
pretends to know what any of that really means
<samueldr>
sounds about right considering he's into UART drivers :)
<samueldr>
text is too small to really make any sense of it here :/
<elvishjerricco>
I don't even think he's having problems getting linux booted; he just doesn't have usb yet so uart is how he wants to use busybox
<elvishjerricco>
or something
<elvishjerricco>
I have no idea what exactly uart is :P
<samueldr>
serial
<samueldr>
basically a console
<samueldr>
well, basically used to get a console
<elvishjerricco>
ah
<samueldr>
he figured out how to make the usb cable to interact with the "UART" (serial interface) found in one of the type-c receptacles recently
<elvishjerricco>
Yea
<samueldr>
so he can look at... any chatter... from the port
<samueldr>
now he's making it so Linux can do chatter AFACIT
<samueldr>
AFAICT*
<elvishjerricco>
Sounds about right
<samueldr>
without serial, and without usb, good luck trying to interact with the system to poke and prod
<elvishjerricco>
He's also booting linux by sending the kernel and initramfs over that usb cable I think
<samueldr>
I'm terribly lucky that things go well with "blind" initial ports with vendor kernels with Mobile NixOS
<samueldr>
yeah, through m1n1 IIRC
* LinuxHackerman
is now watching too
<LinuxHackerman>
so much for going to bed, eh?
<samueldr>
which is a program that executes early on, a bit like a bootloader, (different enough, but similar enough that we should forget about that definition)
<samueldr>
this program I *assume* has a good serial implementation done already
<samueldr>
or it re-uses what the early boot environment provides
<elvishjerricco>
samueldr: seems like it. It also seems like he can "reboot" back to that bootloader... I think without rebooting the whole machine?
<elvishjerricco>
Maybe he just changed the default boot drive or something
<samueldr>
I would assume that's the default boot option
<samueldr>
given the way he needs to restart the hdmi capture, yeah, normal reboot
<samueldr>
default os is m1n1
<samueldr>
(I *assume* normal reboot)
<elvishjerricco>
samueldr: I don't think he does usually restart the capture
<elvishjerricco>
Oh hey, a shell
<elvishjerricco>
Sick
<samueldr>
yay
<samueldr>
TIL I'm hacking on linux drivers the right way
<elvishjerricco>
That's really close to just... booting a distro, right?
<samueldr>
peppering printks
<samueldr>
elvishjerricco: what do you mean?
<LinuxHackerman>
samueldr: pretty sure that's the right way unless you have jtag :p
<samueldr>
heh
<samueldr>
isn't there kgdb over serial?
<elvishjerricco>
samueldr: Like if he just attached a storage device that the kernel could use with a distro installed on it, he could boot it and start using it over the serial, right?
<samueldr>
(yeah, he didn't have serial yet)
<LinuxHackerman>
oh, maybe
<samueldr>
elvishjerricco: most likely yes
<samueldr>
I wasn't sure if that was what you meant
<LinuxHackerman>
elvishjerricco: that's assuming that he has a way of attaching a storage device that the kernel can use :D
<elvishjerricco>
Yea... I guess usb will be coming up on his todo list
<elvishjerricco>
Wonder why it doesn't work out of the box. Does apple use proprietary usb controllers?
<samueldr>
Linux already has so much batteries included that once you sort out the specific bits for your platform it all just falls into place
<samueldr>
elvishjerricco: it might be simply about providing the configuration in the FDT or ACPI tables
<elvishjerricco>
woosh
<samueldr>
I don't know the details (obviously) about why usb doesn't work yet
<elvishjerricco>
that was a self-woosh
<samueldr>
yeah
<LinuxHackerman>
elvishjerricco: if the kernel doesn't know where the controllers are and how to talk to them, it can't talk to them
<LinuxHackerman>
:)
<samueldr>
heh, elvishjerricco, basically the FDT and ACPI tables describe what hardware is plugged where
<elvishjerricco>
Hm. I would have thought that would be figured out automatically
<samueldr>
so the linux drivers can query the the FDT (or ACPI table) and ask (for DT) «I want compatible = "foo,widget-123"»
<samueldr>
elvishjerricco: yes, it is, through a mechanism like FDTs or ACPI tables :
<samueldr>
:)*
<samueldr>
but then some busses, like USB or PCI are "plug and play" (right terminology?)
<LinuxHackerman>
go team R interpreter in initramfs
<samueldr>
where the devices *advertise* themselves
<gchristensen>
lol LinuxHackerman
<samueldr>
elvishjerricco: most likely the usb controller is not on a plug and play bus, or if it is, *that* bus isn't described yet
<LinuxHackerman>
samueldr: why didn't you use R to implement the mobile-nixos stage-1? 🤔
<elvishjerricco>
Interesting...
<samueldr>
LinuxHackerman: does it cross-compile? :)
<samueldr>
also, you see graphics, but it's most likely using whatever "simple" framebuffer was left behind by the earlier init steps
<samueldr>
so the kernel is not actually in control of graphics
<elvishjerricco>
Right
<samueldr>
no resolution adjustments, no external displays yet, but that's hella useful to have
<samueldr>
I still need to explore simplefb with my devices to grok it and describe how to use it
<elvishjerricco>
Are keyboards/trackpads/audio things in laptops / desktops usually connected via usb?
<samueldr>
extremely variable
<elvishjerricco>
I shouldn't be surprised
<LinuxHackerman>
audio is often via PCI I think
<samueldr>
there is no real universal answer to that
<LinuxHackerman>
but yeah keyboards and trackpads are sometimes USB and sometimes… not USB
<samueldr>
some are/were via PS/2 even
<elvishjerricco>
This guy has been streaming non stop for over 12 hours if the chat is to be believed
<samueldr>
plausible
<LinuxHackerman>
my laptop's keyboard is connected via "serio"
<clever>
chromium might be loosing several major features...
<samueldr>
we need google to answer
<samueldr>
it is extremely unclear what the announcement is about
<samueldr>
people are saying it means chromium from distros will be losing access
<__monty__>
LinuxHackerman: Monkey wrench?
<clever>
samueldr: the article implies that google is just removing the features from the chromium codebase, so the forks wont have the feature either...
<samueldr>
but it's written, in my opinion, in a way that points to non-"plain chromium" uses of those API keys
<samueldr>
nope
<LinuxHackerman>
__monty__: nope, don't have one :/
<samueldr>
>> through a third-party Chromium based browser
<samueldr>
the phrasing is unclear
<__monty__>
LinuxHackerman: Vise grips?
<samueldr>
and AFAIK it's the only communication about the issue
<clever>
> To prevent future abuse, Google said it plans to limit some of the Chrome APIs (features) that it includes inside Chromium starting March 15, 2021, making them unavailable for any other browser developed on top of the Chromium open-source codebase.
<{^_^}>
error: syntax error, unexpected ',', expecting ')', at (string):471:24
<LinuxHackerman>
__monty__: ooh, good thought… I think I might have some
<samueldr>
clever: APIs as in web-based requests
<clever>
samueldr: i parsed the above, as removing the code to integrate the api with the local data
<clever>
perhaps moving it from the open chromium half, to the closed chrome half
<__monty__>
LinuxHackerman: Well, not good. Just that every bolt looks like an appropriate vise grip victim : )
<samueldr>
previous less blogspammy interpretations from users that are more primary sources stated this was about API keys
<clever>
so all forks have to implement their own code, as intended
<samueldr>
and were also confused about the real meaning of the messaging
<clever>
yeah, need a clearer message
<LinuxHackerman>
__monty__: hehe. Unfortunately, looks like I don't have any either :(
<samueldr>
no one actually _knows_ if it will affect plain chromium builds from distros
<LinuxHackerman>
maybe I'll post a note asking my neighbours if I can borrow a pipe wrench.
<clever>
samueldr: also, isnt nixos using its own api key, in the nixpkgs src?
<samueldr>
like all distros do
<__monty__>
LinuxHackerman: I have one more idea but I doubt you'd have the right ingredients. You need a strip of grippy material with a high tensile strength and a stick/pipe, attach one to the other, then wrap the strip around the bit you want to apply torque to and use the stick to clamp and lever.
<samueldr>
most distros were given specific additional rights compared to what _you_ could do
<__monty__>
LinuxHackerman: But yeah, just getting a proper tool is the sensible solution : )
<clever>
samueldr: yeah, thats what i thought it was doing
<samueldr>
it is unclear from google's communications whether those API keys given to distros will be affected
<clever>
samueldr: i remember that checking my google audit report, it clearly said it was the nixos build of chromium
<LinuxHackerman>
samueldr: no, R does not cross-build :D
<LinuxHackerman>
at least not from nixpkgs
<samueldr>
"got penguins" I guess refers to SMP
<samueldr>
(likely before the stream he only got a single penguin)
<LinuxHackerman>
survival multiplayer?
<LinuxHackerman>
(sorry…)
<samueldr>
LinuxHackerman: you youngins and your mines and crafts
<gchristensen>
samueldr: did you know there was a dragon you're supposed to slay in that game??
<samueldr>
gchristensen: yeah, slayed it already
<gchristensen>
I had no idea :x
<samueldr>
though I joke, I played a bunch of minecraft
<samueldr>
I really prefer modded
__monty__ has quit [Quit: leaving]
<elvishjerricco>
I used to play minecraft quite a lot, heavily modded. Eventually I just felt like I had... solved it? Like I knew exactly what to do when starting a new world. Got kinda boring after taht
<clever>
elvishjerricco: some modpacks totally change up the recipes, so you cant do that
* infinisil
prefers vanilla
<elvishjerricco>
clever: I usually found stuff like that pretty superficial. Like ok I have to arrange some machines differently; same formula
<samueldr>
it has been years since I played though
<samueldr>
that's "technical" modded though
<cransom_>
it's a hard balance to keep me interested. i don't like the parts where i have 0 idea what i'm doing and 100% know everything thats going to happen
<samueldr>
there was a neat modpack I never ended up playing, with "roguelike dungeons" emphasis (not the mod, but the concept)
<clever>
elvishjerricco: i think terrafirmacraft uses your uuid to seed some rng, so the exact way you do smithing is unique for every user
<clever>
elvishjerricco: that alone, makes it tricky, because you cant just follow a guide
<samueldr>
yeah, terrafirmacraft is a total other "game" inside the minecraft engine
<elvishjerricco>
That's interesting
<clever>
basically, you have 6 buttons, that are kinda like -3, -2, -1 +1 +2 +3
<samueldr>
most mods are incompatible with it by default, as it really takes control of minecraft
<clever>
and you have to get include certain buttons in a certain order, and land on a certain spot on the bar
<clever>
but the exact amount each button moves the bar by, is random
<samueldr>
terrafirmacraft changes the world generation a lot, with an equatorial climate, temperate climates, arctic climates (going north/south)
<samueldr>
with seasons that affect crops, terrain, you
<clever>
samueldr: i spent literal days trying to find a given ore in my pack, before just giving up, lol
<clever>
food also rots over time
<samueldr>
never ended up playing terrafirmacraft though