gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
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<pie_> oh no the board side connecting games
<pie_> i gave up on those when i was young because i always lost against the computer xd
<samueldr> wargames (the movie) warned you
<pie_> seemed impossible
<pie_> well, i did choose not to play 'xD
<samueldr> "the only winning move is not to play"
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<supersandro2000> traefik is developing in a really worrieng direction
<supersandro2000> they basically force you into sending "anonymized" configuration data when using pilot
<supersandro2000> if they continue like this they eventually just do it by default with no config option to turn it off
<supersandro2000> also I am pretty sure that pilot could work offline if you only use the extension part
<supersandro2000> Enterprise has a different version but I hope that someone is like: not like this
<lukegb> I mean, if you're using Pilot then they're already collecting data :p
<gchristensen> I'm getting *real* tired of kswapd0 taking 99% cpu
<adisbladis> gchristensen: Murder that stupid guy
<adisbladis> Also I hate "peer", that guy keeps resetting my connections
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<{^_^}> martinbaillie/vault-plugin-secrets-github#14 (by grahamc, 3 hours ago, open): Support for roles?
<{^_^}> martinbaillie/vault-plugin-secrets-github#15 (by grahamc, 2 hours ago, open): Do you expect tests to pass when built in a Nix sandbox?
<{^_^}> martinbaillie/vault-plugin-secrets-github#16 (by grahamc, 2 hours ago, open): Maybe the app's private key shouldn't be readable
<{^_^}> martinbaillie/vault-plugin-secrets-github#17 (by grahamc, 7 minutes ago, open): client: log the response body on errors fetching a token
<{^_^}> martinbaillie/vault-plugin-secrets-github#18 (by grahamc, 3 minutes ago, open): config read: don't send back the private key
<cole-h> gchristensen: ahaha
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<gchristensen> nice...
<gchristensen> vault write /github/token repository_ids=251358283 permissions=contents=read -> git clone https://x-access-token:the-secret-token@github.com/grahamc/xxx.git -> works, but can't push
<cole-h> wowie
<cole-h> Never change, nouveau.
<cole-h> Have to unbind everything from nouveau, then rmmod it, then rebind some stuff, then modprobe it, to recover from a crash
<cole-h> Because starting up alacritty or firefox crashes sway immediately
<Ashy> Nvidia??? NOvidia.
<cole-h> :)
<Ashy> is there a nixpkgs package for the x11 fonts?
<Ashy> trying to change the xterm font size logs this error for me: xterm: cannot load font "-misc-fixed-medium-r-semicondensed--13-120-75-75-c-60-iso10646-1
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<lovesegfault> gchristensen: :O
<gchristensen> thank you, cole-h :D
<lovesegfault> that is awesome
<lovesegfault> gchristensen: are you using vault?
<gchristensen> yea
<lovesegfault> we maintain a tool in the same vein but for SSH
<gchristensen> nice
<cole-h> gchristensen: I never knew that x-access-token:token was valid syntax :o
<cole-h> gchristensen: And also, you're welcome (assuming this is for me finding the repo in the first place) :D
<cole-h> huh, interesting
<gchristensen> my `github://...` bit is a party trick shim only good enough for a demo, but it is what it is
<cole-h> Yeah, I figured that's what was going on
<cole-h> Cool!
<infinisil> gchristensen: github://... bit?
<infinisil> Ahh, nice
<gchristensen> unfortunately I can't use it to fetch repos in other orgs, just repos owned by me
<cole-h> Oh?
<cole-h> That seems like an unfortunate limitation.
<gchristensen> since it is a github "app" it has to be installed to each owner or org it applies to
<cole-h> Ah
<gchristensen> I can't install it to my account and fetch repos my account happens to have access to
<cole-h> If only GitHub had such fine-grained controls on PATs or something
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<bbigras> I have been enjoying your tweets about vault lately. I'm going to try it.
<gchristensen> =)
<gchristensen> it is pretty neat
<gchristensen> cole-h: note, i control the ofborg org, so this is not a problem for the task at hand :)
<adisbladis> gchristensen: lol
<adisbladis> "i control the ofborg org"
<adisbladis> Say that 5 times fast
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<samueldr> oh wow... I really hate those kind of sites... but it's one of the first time I see one of those "just work" with the content blocker level I browse at https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/exynos/products/mobileprocessor/exynos-2100/
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<samueldr> (all third party scripts and requests blocked by default, 1st party allowed)
<cole-h> gchristensen: That's true :P
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<samueldr> oh, my terminal goes all urgent on me because of gcc's warnings with fancy links
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<lovesegfault> ,locate lsb_release
<{^_^}> Found in packages: lsb-release, apparmor-profiles
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<elvishjerricco> cole-h: Going to try setting up gpu passthrough without rebooting. Is there a way to detach the device node without using virsh? I'm just invoking qemu directly in my setup.
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<cole-h> elvishjerricco: I believe it was something like `echo $PCI_ID > /sys/bus/pci/drivers/nouvuea/unbind` for me
<cole-h> and then the same to `/bind`, maybe
<cole-h> something like this, I think
<elvishjerricco> cole-h: Oh, very helpful
<elvishjerricco> qemu-system-x86_64: -device vfio-pci,host=42:00.0: vfio 0000:42:00.0: group 30 is not viable
<elvishjerricco> Please ensure all devices within the iommu_group are bound to their vfio bus driver.
<elvishjerricco> Hm. But there's only two devices in group 30 and I've already done that for both of them
<elvishjerricco> cole-h: ^
<cole-h> How are you verifying your iommu groups?
<elvishjerricco> Oh I did the sound device wrong
<cole-h> lol
<elvishjerricco> It's working!
<cole-h> that'll do it :P
<cole-h> Yay!
<elvishjerricco> I don't have my USB set up yet... Guess I'll do that next :P
<cole-h> I also have a script for that in the same directory :P
<elvishjerricco> Hm... Well it took my network down...
<cole-h> Can't say I've ever experienced that.
<cole-h> libvirtd probably takes over most of the networking stuff.
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<cole-h> In the mood for a change of font -- what mono font are you guys using nowadays? I'm currently on Iosevka (mildly customized).
<samueldr> Go Mono!
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<elvishjerricco> Alright. Just about have this new vfio thing set up. Only problem is getting the vt back...
<elvishjerricco> Oh wait, that appears to already be working
<cole-h> Yeah, just need to rebind the efifb and vtcon
<cole-h> er, not the efifb
<drakonis> 84592 store paths deleted, 231814.23 MiB freed
<drakonis> ffffffffuck, i never had to delete so much stuff
<siraben> wtf
<siraben> 231 GB of garbage o.O
<elvishjerricco> Alright sweet. I now have a little systemd unit that stops my display manager, sets up vfio, starts a vm, then in ExecStopPost it undoes all of it and starts the display manager. I can now seamlessly switch back and forth between windows and linux without a reboot!
<elvishjerricco> Only problem is that my windows install seems to have botched itself; it's not using the display as a hidpi display
<cole-h> Might need to install drivers
<cole-h> Are you using nvidia? If so, you might additonally be running into code 43 (which gimps your GPU because it's not "licensed for virtualization" or whatever)
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<cole-h> (can be any string really, from what I've read)
<elvishjerricco> cole-h: It is nvidia. Drivers are installed. It worked previously, but not anymore
<kalbasit> cole-h: here's what I did with my copy of your config (thx BTW): https://github.com/kalbasit/soxincfg/commit/3acba979cd2a07a8cafae3021e540dd02ecfb58c
<cole-h> kalbasit: Probably want to rm the buddylist.txt file :P (I should too, really)
<kalbasit> cole-h: `modules/programs/weechat/default.nix` is the Nix part
<kalbasit> cole-h: yea I noticed that. Not sure what it is yet either :)
<cole-h> It's for the buddylist.pl plugin I used to use
<elvishjerricco> cole-h: How would I identify if it's code 43?
<cole-h> Gives "buddies" some sort of distinguishment, and lets you know when they connect / disconnect from a server IIRC.
<cole-h> Haven't used it in a while
<cole-h> elvishjerricco: In devmgmt.msc, I think the "display adapter" should show a yellow triangle and if you go into details it'll say "code 43" somewhere
<elvishjerricco> cole-h: No idea what devmgmt.msc is :P
<cole-h> elvishjerricco: win+r -> devmgmt.msc
<cole-h> Device Manager
<kalbasit> cole-h: oh I see. Thanks!
<cole-h> kalbasit: Also might want to look through all the autoloaded plugins and trim the fat that you don't want / need
<kalbasit> cole-h: probably. I'll spend some time getting aquainted with the plugins you have installed
<cole-h> Sounds good :)
<kalbasit> cole-h: not sure if you noticed, but instead of allowing weechat from loading the flake repo, I created a separate edit-weechat-config command to open weechat with a temporary directory to allow editing/saving
<elvishjerricco> cole-h: Ah, it is code 43
<cole-h> kalbasit: FWIW, I'm not sure how necessary the loginctl enable-linger thing is necessary -- I didn't have to do it on my most recent reinstall.
<cole-h> elvishjerricco: Yeah, figured. 99% sure all you need is that one line (properly nested, of course) and it should fix itself.
<kalbasit> cole-h: thanks! I did not try it either. My goal is to eventualy run it on my server and use a fifo to forward notifications over to my workstations
<elvishjerricco> cole-h: How does that line translate to qemu command line?
<kalbasit> I did that before, but man that was like 10 years ago
<cole-h> I've also seen people use 0x1234567890
<cole-h> kalbasit: Yeah, I remember I had to enable lingering on Arch, but since I switched to NixOS, I haven't had to. Maybe we do it automagically.
<cole-h> elvishjerricco: sec, lemme goog'
<cole-h> elvishjerricco: `-cpu 'host,kvm=off,hv_vendor_id=null'` I think
<cole-h> (kvm=off just hides KVM from the VM itself, doesn't disable the acceleration :P)
<cole-h> Under the "Set KVM hidden for direct QEMU usage" header
<elvishjerricco> cole-h: ......... I took out kvm=off because I couldn't remember why I had it and thought that might be why it wasn't working :P
<cole-h> lollll
<cole-h> possible
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<elvishjerricco> Oooh yea that fixed it
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<cole-h> Great!
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<elvishjerricco> Well now I gotta figure out why audio isn't working... I see a bunch of crap like `ALSA lib pulse.c:242:(pulse_connect) PulseAudio: Unable to connect: Connection refused`, but pulse/alsa shouldn't matter because the audio is supposed to go through the GPU's sound output, which I have properly passed through
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<elvishjerricco> Audio's now working but it's intensely stuttered
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<eyJhb> elvishjerricco: what are you doing? QEMU windows with GPU pass+
<elvishjerricco> Ok fixed it. Bunch of crap about Message Signaled-based Interrupts
<elvishjerricco> eyJhb: Yea. I'm trying to set it up so I don't even have to reboot even though I only have one GPU
<elvishjerricco> Now that I've fixed the audio, it's pretty seamless!
<elvishjerricco> `systemctl start guest.service` kills my display manager, disables the gpu, and hands it over to a qemu vm
<elvishjerricco> windows boots and everything works as you'd expect
<eyJhb> And on shutdown it is given back?
<elvishjerricco> eyJhb: Yep. The ExecStopPost of the service reverts all the hardware configuration and does `systemctl start display-manager.service`
<eyJhb> Sounds really cool!
<eyJhb> Something that you can "easily" share?
<elvishjerricco> There's a warm fuzzy feeling about having windows completely sandboxed from my actual hardware, and stored on a zfs volume I can freely snapshot/rollback/backup/etc.
<elvishjerricco> eyJhb: Yea I suppose. It's just a NixOS module now
<elvishjerricco> Though it has a link to a specific GPU bios rom that you'd have to replace for your own machine, and some of the specific params/paths in the config will depend on amd vs nvidia
<eyJhb> GPU BIOS ROM? Used to make ti possble+
<eyJhb> to make it possible? or what is the function of that?
<elvishjerricco> Might be some crud in there from all the experimentation but that's what I'm using now
<elvishjerricco> It assumes windows is already installed on a zvol
<elvishjerricco> What would be REALLY neat would be if I could disconnect the X session from the GPU somehow and reconnect it when Windows shuts down so I could keep all my X windows and whatnot open
<LinuxHackerman> That sounds tricky
<LinuxHackerman> but maybe it's in the domain of tools like criu
<elvishjerricco> LinuxHackerman: What's criu?
<LinuxHackerman> checkpoint/restore in userspace
<LinuxHackerman> magical process suspend/resume stuff
<elvishjerricco> whoa
<eyJhb> Looks cool elvishjerricco ! :D Might be useable in the future!
<LinuxHackerman> AFAIU it lets you do things like suspend a process, reboot the machine, then resume the process
<eyJhb> When will we get a private /nix/store.... :(
<elvishjerricco> eyJhb: What's private nix store got to do with it?
<LinuxHackerman> nothing, presumably :p
<eyJhb> elvishjerricco: Offtopic-offtopic, looking at making a module for some other stuff
<elvishjerricco> eyJhb: Oh I misread your message. I missed the "will" and thought you were saying my module would be useful when we get private store :P
<eyJhb> Ahhhh :D I can see how that would be very confusing :p
<eyJhb> ,ping
<{^_^}> pong
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<ldlework> Anyone here played Hex?
<philipp[m]> No, never but it looks pretty cool.
<eyJhb> ldlework: the boardgame?
<philipp[m]> I assume. I only played hexcells, which is minesweeper but... good.
<ldlework> Yeah the boardgame.
<ldlework> It's stunningly simple. More simple than Go somehow.
<ldlework> And yet, it's rich with "ideas".
<ldlework> I have to say, I'm quite impressed
<philipp[m]> There surely is a decent web version somewhere?
<ldlework> Yeah playok.com has a fine version
<ldlework> send me a link if you wanna play
<ldlework> lol
<philipp[m]> I don't think they know what gaming means.
<ldlework> ^_^'
<philipp[m]> Yes, lemme do a short read up and only if you don't mind when I need a few minutes for a move.
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<eyJhb> I am always disappointed when I hear Go, and it is not Golang for some reason...
<ldlework> I have the opposite
<ldlework> lol
<__monty__> Hmm, vice versa for me : )
<eyJhb> Yeah, I would expect that I am alone on that one...
<__monty__> Probably not alone. But Go the game is definitely more interesting than you give it credit for.
<eyJhb> __monty__: Well I do not over/under credit the game, I am quite neutral about it
<eyJhb> Well....
<eyJhb> `note: currently hard linking saves -9.44 MiB`
<eyJhb> Thank you?
<ldlework> philipp[m]: beat me in a no-handicap already!
* ldlework shakes fist full of hexes.
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<philipp[m]> It's a fun game!
<philipp[m]> I wonder whether it's on of theese where actually thinking about strategy ruins it for me or makes it better...
<ldlework> You should probably at least take a look at the edge templates
<ldlework> If red is trying to get to the bottom from b1, then they can unconditionally reach either a2 or b2
<philipp[m]> Yeah, after a few games. I really enjoy figuring at least the easy stuff out by myself. Appreciation the problems first also helps me understand
<ldlework> so getting to b1 is as good as reaching the edge
<ldlework> yeah fair enough :)
<ldlework> sorry to spoil Template I then
<ldlework> hehe
<philipp[m]> I don't think that link is what you meant to post.
<philipp[m]> It's just a red circle.
<ldlework> oh definitely not
<ldlework> then we avoided the spoil!
<ldlework> :D
<philipp[m]> :D
<philipp[m]> Alright, now some actual work...
<ldlework> thanks for the games
<philipp[m]> ggs
<eyJhb> philipp[m]: WORK?! :(
<philipp[m]> eyJhb: Apparently it's a condition to get payed by your employer. I don't like it.
<eyJhb> philipp[m]: Ohh I agree, we should do something about it. Seems like a little too much to ask.
<__monty__> Sounds like you've been had, to use the proper legalese.
<jD91mZM2> I'm experimenting with something... :)
<jD91mZM2> While this might seem as nothing, the Rust-based nix evaluation system I'm building has full support for partially evaluating bits and bobs, which will make it useful in rnix-lsp where we might not want to evaluate more than necessary
<jD91mZM2> Hence the first line with NODE_IDENT - that's after just one iteration of evaluation, the remaining output is printed after the whole thing has been evaluated
<ma27[m]> jD91mZM2: nice! I actually started thinking about how we could teach rnix-lsp how to do some more completion %)
<jD91mZM2> ma27[m]: Yeah, rnix-lsp is very much a hack IMO, it evaluates some stuff manually and it's all weird. With a full evaluation engine we could tell it to evaluate all nodes reaching to the cursor position, and then give us a list of all variables in scope
<jD91mZM2> That said, I suppose I'll need to teach this engine to keep track of where variables are set, if we want Goto Definition... hmm..
<ma27[m]> regarding variable detection: yeah. Though I think it's pretty fine when it comes to detecting which values are expected at which cursor position (e.g. when I'm in a `inherit ...`)
<ma27[m]> Hmm I was wondering if we could ffi into nix somehow, that would e.g. improve the completions of builtins btw
<philipp[m]> lol, seems like today my work is that we need to explain my technically pretty much illiterate bosses father who is very much in denial about the fact that he is technically illiterate that he got scammed by this indian dev team he hired and that they didn't sell him a finished working website, but a mockup.
<eyJhb> philipp[m]: Is it worth the money?
<philipp[m]> eyJhb: I don't know what he payed but... No :D
<eyJhb> No more, is the job worth the money if you have to do such things :p
<eyJhb> But also, this is why frontend devs can score a lot. You make a pretty design, some idiot falls in love with it, you can get bank. Even if it doesn't or barely works.
<philipp[m]> Eeeeh, this is an extreme day. Most of the time I get to do interesting things.
<philipp[m]> Also: Self respect? In this economy?
<eyJhb> WELL! I guess it depends on where you are in the world :p
<eyJhb> But I am guessing the US?
<eyJhb> *based on the time
<philipp[m]> Nah, Europe. It's actually decent here.
<eyJhb> Then it is no problem! :D But wait, where in EU? It is .. nvm, this is actually a time where people work.
<eyJhb> I wouldn't even have been off at this time (15.00 here)
<eyJhb> In a couple of monts I have to find a place, where I can do some internship for a semester... Really wondering if I could find anything Nix related
<jD91mZM2> eyJhb: YEE we're timezone buddies!
<jD91mZM2> I'm in Sweden, where are you based?
<jD91mZM2> (if you don't mind me asking)
<eyJhb> jD91mZM2: Another Sweden buddy! How many swedes are in this place?! Denmark here, northren part. I can actually receive the Swedish P3 (I think), when I drive outside the city :D
<adisbladis> eyJhb: Far too many damn swedes!
<jD91mZM2> I think I've seen one or two outside of myself, so that makes at least three :) I guess with your help soon enough we'll be able to conquer the country and enforce mandated Nix at workplaces.
<adisbladis> åäö
<gchristensen> ("rent is too damn high" meme, but for quantity of swedes)
<adisbladis> Förbjud Nix på uteserveringar
<jD91mZM2> Va? Nej
* adisbladis pops open a julmust and feels delightfully swedish
<eyJhb> Snart vil Norden overtage hele verden, og forene alle med Nix!
<eyJhb> What in the world is a Julmust?
<eyJhb> Juleøl?
<adisbladis> eyJhb: You don't know about the swedish christmas juice?!
<adisbladis> eyJhb: No, it's a non-alcoholic soft drink
<adisbladis> Still with hops and barley, just sweet
<eyJhb> Sooo... Nisseøl?
<jD91mZM2> referring to it as "juice" is- oh wait... maybe this guy speaks Scottish English
<adisbladis> tazjin called it christmas juice
<adisbladis> I really liked the term
<eyJhb> I think there is still some alcohol in our Nisseøl however...
<jD91mZM2> Apparently in Scottish English everything is referred to as "juice", I mean as long as it's not beer. Which is really fun
<eyJhb> You cannot just coin terms adisbladis ! :D
<eyJhb> Btw. any snow in Sweden yet?
<adisbladis> eyJhb: Stockholm has tons at the moment
<jD91mZM2> Coca Cola = juice, apparently, in Scottish English
<adisbladis> I just saw it snow upwards outside the window
<eyJhb> Sweet. It's so nice with snow, as long as you don't have to drive in it.
<LinuxHackerman> jD91mZM2: lived in Glasgow for 4 years, cannot confirm
<jD91mZM2> LinuxHackerman: What, really? But why would the internet... lie??
<LinuxHackerman> oh wait actually yeah I think soft drinks in general would be called juice by some.
<jD91mZM2> It could also be an Edinbrough thing as well, but I'll have to look it up
<jD91mZM2> Edinburgh* aa nobody kill me
<jD91mZM2> Ugh how come Google has *everything* you could ever need an answer for, except for this little detail - I can't find anything on it - maybe I could be imagining things maybe it's all in my head maybe you don't even exist and I'm just writing to myself I need validation
<jD91mZM2> adisbladis: Maybe your window is actually an upside down see-through mirror?
<jD91mZM2> Or maybe your neighbor is on your lawn with a leaf blower trying to make you confused
<adisbladis> jD91mZM2: It's a flat on the fifth floor
<adisbladis> Maybe the downstairs neighbour is trolling
<jD91mZM2> Or maybe one or two snowflakes fell too quickly and then they felt lonely so they went upwards again to join the rest of the group
<jD91mZM2> We are finding so many plausible scenarios, wow. I feel like I could solve anything. Brb gonna pull a Sherlock on the local police with my extremely helpful theories
<sphalerite> Or maybe fluid dynamics are just really weird.
<ma27[m]> ... or you live in the southern heimsphere (scnr)
<ma27[m]> hemisphere*
<FRidh> in Gothenburg its a mess as usual regarding snow. Time to move to Stockholm as well it seems :)
<ldlework> That guy who took the podium from the american capitol was arrested
<ldlework> Just for taking a political stand!
<ldlework> ;)
<gchristensen> boo hiss
<adisbladis> ldlework: I love that picture
<adisbladis> He looks so happy
<adisbladis> Political context aside, his smile is awesome :D
<ldlework> ur smile is awesome
<adisbladis> ldlework: Aww
<adisbladis> Don't stop
<adisbladis> <3
<LinuxHackerman> FRidh: wait, you live in Gothenburg?
<FRidh> yep
<LinuxHackerman> huh, TIL
<LinuxHackerman> my parents live just outside Gbg :)
<adisbladis> Today I TILed
<FRidh> not a swede though
<FRidh> You from around here then originally?
<LinuxHackerman> Nope, far from it. German, and I've never lived in Sweden for more than 3 months :p
<FRidh> "far from it" hehe
<adisbladis> Yeah, don't mix LinuxHackerman with those pesky swedes
<adisbladis> He's above us
<sphalerite> well, conceptually.
<FRidh> better not get associated with them
<sphalerite> lol no adisbladis
<bbigras> I like the before/after pictures of the people who were arrested
* adisbladis glances his julmust collection
<adisbladis> Only one variety left :/
<FRidh> ugh...how can you drink that stuff. Guess I'll never fully integrate here!
<adisbladis> FRidh: I bought 7 crates (~70 bottles) a few weeks ago
<adisbladis> It's great
<eyJhb> Wait, is FRidh swedish as well?
<FRidh> nope, Dutch
<FRidh> just live here
<eyJhb> Ohh, nvm :D
<eyJhb> WAIT! Why Sweden?
<FRidh> got lost somehow
<sphalerite> Well, I can understand living there. It's definitely nice, and I'm very glad my parents live there so I can go there often on holiday :p
<FRidh> was here for erasmus, moved away, moved back moved away, moved back...
<eyJhb> How many connections are there to Sweden?! :(
<eyJhb> sphalerite: Are you a swede?
<sphalerite> eyJhb: no, german
<sphalerite> see above
<FRidh> definitely this year when most of europe is in some form of lockdown
<sphalerite> (oh yeah, I'm LinuxHackerman )
<eyJhb> But your parents live in Sweden?
<sphalerite> yes
<eyJhb> I feel the betrayal from you all.
<eyJhb> No one moves to DK apparantly! :(
<FRidh> nope, just fly over it
<adisbladis> eyJhb: I'd rather live in CPH than Stockholm
<eyJhb> FRidh: Ohh, we have a Erasmus student atm. from France
<eyJhb> adisbladis: I have a mixed relationship with CPH
<FRidh> eyJhb: where?
<eyJhb> FRidh: Denmark, AAU
<FRidh> ok
<adisbladis> eyJhb: Btw, I'm pronouncing your nickname like a drunk dane
<adisbladis> I hope that's OK
<eyJhb> adisbladis: I can't ever pronounce it, so whatever you do is OK! :D
<FRidh> Copenhagen is nice, much better pubs. Stockholm, very nice as long as you don't spend too much time on the subway...
<eyJhb> can't even**
<adisbladis> Yeah, Copenhagen is far more lively and continental
<eyJhb> "continental" :D
<gchristensen> this computer is basically unusable these days, kswapd0 takes 100% cpu and IO is totally paused for 10s of seconds at a time for no reason
<adisbladis> gchristensen: I've experienced this with really crappy SSDs
<adisbladis> Is this a Lenovo laptop by any chance?
<gchristensen> xps 9370
<gchristensen> did you have swap at the time?
<adisbladis> Nope
<gchristensen> hm
<gchristensen> (me either)
<adisbladis> I never found out what the actual root cause was
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<infinisil> gchristensen: Free disk space?
<gchristensen> hmm
<gchristensen> hmm 78% full, and 48% fragmented, that might explain it
<infinisil> I don't think so, that's not too bad
<infinisil> I've only had freeze problems with like 99% full
<infinisil> Also I've got a system with 88% full and 80% frag, and it's doing fine
<philipp[m]> https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/13/intel-ceo-bob-swan-to-step-down-in-february.html Intel is getting a new CEO, their former CTO from their glory days in the late 00s Pat Gelsinger.
<gchristensen> I'm using a high quality tool
<gchristensen> $ sudo fatresize -s 2G /dev/nvme0n1p1 -> Error: Could not stat device /dev/nvme0n1p - No such file or directory.
<gchristensen> reading the man page ... -q --quite Be quite
<adisbladis> Quite quiet
<lukegb> I want to make a tool with a -q flag which is short for --quit "Quit without doing anything"
<lassulus> seems very user friendly
<lukegb> and -v for --virtual "Pretend to do the thing but don't actually perform any operations"
<adisbladis> -h for hammertime
<adisbladis> -h --hammertime "Print 'Stop! Hammertime"' and exit"
<lassulus> maybe it should pretend to run normaly for a minute and then print it?
<philipp[m]> Yeah, don't forget to create some io loads for a few seconds.
<gchristensen> $ gparted \> Unit \xe2\x97\x8f.service does not exist, proceeding anyway. (gpartedbin:28561): Gtk-WARNING **: 11:17:40.720: cannot open display: .... cool
<gchristensen> this is going well: (parted) resizepart ... Partition number? 1 ... End? [2001MB]? ... free(): invalid pointer
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<gchristensen> I gave myself a few mb of swap and it is working s ofar
<eyJhb> ,ping
<{^_^}> pong
<eyJhb> The best bot in the world, good bot {^_^}
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<V> ,botsnack
<{^_^}> Oh thanks, have a cookie yourself
<V> ...that sounds like a good idea actually
<gchristensen> I have no cookies ;|;
<V> same
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<eyJhb> ,botsnack
<{^_^}> Oh thanks, have a cookie yourself
<eyJhb> Perfect :D
<eyJhb> gchristensen: I have a drawer just for snacks. If you are ever in the area, you can try to empty it.
<eyJhb> We have tried somee, but have given up, and it is ever growing........ :(
<gchristensen> lol
<philipp[m]> I can't relate to this problem.
<gchristensen> me either
<philipp[m]> Of all the problems in the world, this might be the wrong I relate to the least, even.
<V> ditto ;w;
<__monty__> I don't even see how the logistics work out?
<eyJhb> My girlfriends mother works at the "delicacy" department at a big store, and has very good and many contacts... + samples. So we get a lot of high quality chocolate all the time.
<__monty__> Why add to it if it's not getting empty?
<eyJhb> + various other stuff she aquaries, as we also need to have it "hyggeligt", etc. and we have not been able to get her to stop so far :p
<__monty__> Ah, surplus, gotcha.
<__monty__> What's hyggeligt?
<eyJhb> So _WE_ don't add to it as such, we just get a lot of things all the time..
<eyJhb> ,hygge
<{^_^}> a Danish word for a quality of cosiness (= feeling warm, comfortable, and safe) that comes from doing simple things such as lighting candles, baking, or spending time at home with your family
<eyJhb> Which can also be eating stuff you enjoy and being cozy with your family. :D
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<philipp[m]> lol, I'm lucky that my mother works at an organic store and I get to pick up healthy stuff when I go visit them. This would be the end of me.
<eyJhb> philipp[m]: I would enjoy that quite a lot. I don't really eat candy that much, or rather, I didn't....
<eyJhb> But we also get Tea and stuff :p Which is OK
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<gchristensen> ,launch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB9ZJfNZSys starship SN9 static fire test in about 19 minutes maybe
<{^_^}> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB9ZJfNZSys starship SN9 static fire test in about 19 minutes maybe: Ping for space stuff (edit this command to add yourself, see ",help"): infinisil Taneb ldlework etu philipp[m] eyJhb gchristensen __red__ red red[evilred]
<eyJhb> Such a big chance, that I will miss this.......
<gchristensen> such a big chance it won't actually do it in 18min
<eyJhb> Well that just adds to the probability that I will not see it go wuuussshhhhh
<infinisil> Nice
<infinisil> Though that also reminded me that I now missed another youtube live stream
<eyJhb> Haha, which one?
<infinisil> eyJhb: Haskell debugging stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zuAsGk9xoM
<infinisil> Still going, but I feel like it's too late to join now :P
<infinisil> (will probably watch it later)
<srk> `T- 0h 12m ish` :D
<pie_> sweet, haskell debugging
<srk> You don't debug Haskell, Haskell debugs you
<pie_> huh, can i not rewind back to the beginning of the stream or is it just a newpipe problem?
<pie_> oh no nevermind its fine
<eyJhb> pie_: The STARSHIP has not gone wuusssssh yet, why rewind?
<infinisil> ^^ :P
<srk> debugging the starship?
<srk> leaks to space /o\
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<infinisil> We're close..
<infinisil> Probably
* gchristensen unmutes
<philipp[m]> Ah, nice! Didn't miss it!
<infinisil> Ah damn!
<infinisil> Wait
<philipp[m]> lol
<infinisil> That was *too* short
<gchristensen> I'm not a rocket scientist but I don't think that was long enough to get to space
<infinisil> Well, it was a static fire
<infinisil> *disappointment*
<infinisil> Spacex, I wanna see boom!
<infinisil> Or vroom!
<bbigras> hehe
<philipp[m]> infinisil: No boom today means maybe vroom later.
<gchristensen> yeah but also boom today means boom today and vroom later
<infinisil> (some amount of negation missing there)
<gchristensen> I didn't mean to negate anything
<infinisil> But once boom there can't be any boom or vroom later, no?
<gchristensen> if they boom they'll make another to vroom
<gchristensen> but they'll never make one to boom
* srhb is very confused
<srhb> Are we rooting for boom or vroom?
<gchristensen> tbh both
<srhb> Does it ever go zoom?
<gchristensen> if it goes boom I assure you there will be a lot of zoom
* srhb nods sagely
<bbigras> I'm rooting for a couple of booms to teach Musk a lesson. He does good things but says a lot of stupid things too.
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<__monty__> Does he do good things?
<__monty__> I think he just does "fatten my wallet" things.
<bbigras> I think the tesla stuff might help the electric car industry. like lower the cost and make those car more mainstream.
<cole-h> Starlink seems interesting, but I don't really know anything about it
<bbigras> for the spacex stuff, I'm more a nasa fanboy. I wish the US would just finance it correctly.
<gchristensen> hear hear
<__monty__> Starlink sounds more like a disaster tbh. Have you heard any of the criticism from the astronomer community?
<eyJhb> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<gchristensen> infinisil: ping me if it looks like another static fire is coming
<eyJhb> :( I told you , I would miss it.
<gchristensen> eyJhb: you'd have missed it if you'd blinked at the wrong moment
<eyJhb> Damn...
<srhb> Youtube should have a feature where you could mirror a live stream, but with some offset, but the recipient wouldn't be able to tell it wasn't live (unless there's something giving it away on the stream itself)
<srhb> Imagine the happiness it'd bring
<srhb> "omg you caught it hooraaaay"
<eyJhb> billion dollar idea, youdidntmissit.com
<infinisil> srhb: Chat would be problematic
<cole-h> Disable chat
<gchristensen> GPT3
<eyJhb> AI
<infinisil> cole-h: That would defeat the original motivation
<gchristensen> chat is just filled with a whole bunch of Elizas
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<srhb> I mean all it took was the sound of one goose to make the chat go HONK HONK for four minutes straight
<srhb> I think we can fake it
<srhb> Hoomans not that smart.
<eyJhb> Did I miss a goose as well???
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<srhb> I'm not actually an ornithologist, but... :P
<srhb> It did go HONK HONK
<ldlework> philipp[m]: you play Go?
<infinisil> Honkmans
<philipp[m]> ldlework: no, but I airways wondered whether I should.
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<gchristensen> philipp[m]: you should, yes
<ldlework> read this bit i wrote about what I think about go sometime: http://ldlework.com/projects/cards/la-sruselkei/index.html
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<__monty__> ldlework: Thanks for telling us about Hex, btw. It's a fun game.
<ldlework> __monty__: the most interesting thing about Hex, I think, is that offense and defense are truly synonymous in the game. Not in a metaphorical sense, but a mathematical one.
<__monty__> My impression was "control" really flipped around quickly. Maybe that's why.
<ldlework> if you prevent a connection in hex, you have necessarily yourself, connected
<ldlework> so weird
<__monty__> What's special about Hex's "star points" btw?
<ldlework> no clue
<eyJhb> srhb: HONK HONK
<__monty__> Is it just they're equally valuable to both players?
<eyJhb> :D
<__monty__> I didn't really find an advantage in them.
<philipp[m]> I think they are just for easier distance measurements
<philipp[m]> At least I found them helpful for that.
<__monty__> Go definitely has a similar feel. Sequences where you're racing to an edge together came up frequently. Are they called "ladders?"
<ldlework> they are lol
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<rnea> the documentary on alphago (no doubt already watched by most interested in Go and/or AI) manages to give a feel for the game
<rnea> (not short, ... worth watching)
<gchristensen> having /bin/sh log what called it and how has proven very useful, letting me see the way google is trying to launch xdg-open to launch slack to add a new workspace, but failed ... I can look at the journal, copy the magic link, and properly open slack with it
<cole-h> :O
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<infinisil> gchristensen: source?
<infinisil> Like what's the /bin/sh script?
<gchristensen> ^ logs
<infinisil> Nice
<cole-h> Very cool.
<andi-> gchristensen: but now you must wipe that token as it was exposed to your logging infra :-)
<gchristensen> I have to assume slack only allows the magic tokens to be used once, but I dunno
<gchristensen> and, logging infra??
<andi-> journald!
<gchristensen> if someone is reading my journal I've got bigger problems than some slack goop
<cole-h> lol
<andi-> but defense in depth and such! P
<gchristensen> I guess I could encrypt it in the log
<andi-> you could request a one-time public key to encrypt your logs from vault for each line you log!
<gchristensen> sounds good
<gchristensen> I've thought about teaching vault about age ...
<cransom> save some entropy for the rest of us.
<cole-h> andi- + gchristensen = crazy-idea-match-made-in-heaven
<andi-> I personally always approached that slack problem with strace
<gchristensen> nice
<gchristensen> cransom: luckily I have one of those infinite noise generators
<andi-> I don't know how would one end up with xdg-open in PATH on NixOS.
<cransom> wall of lava lamps and a web cam?
<andi-> 30KByte/s.. not suitable for OTP encrypting of my traffic!
<gchristensen> lmao
<andi-> (I had one project where they are stupidly pushing for "true randomness" as OTP)
<andi-> and they over engineered it massively..
<andi-> for no proper gain.
<gchristensen> O.O
<andi-> Sending a 4TB disk at the time per month with the new "crypto key"
<andi-> luckily it died quickly.
<gchristensen> WHAT?
<gchristensen> lol!
<andi-> Nice big 3 lettet German company known worldwide for great process automation.
<gchristensen> amazing
<gchristensen> a shame I couldn't have signed up to receive a 4TB each month
<andi-> I can sell you that.
<gchristensen> well I was assuming it would be free
<andi-> "True randomness* *(not guaranteed)"
<gchristensen> "it is truly random, I swear! It just happened to be on a very long streak of zeros"
<andi-> You can book the premium service and it will come on NVMe disks instead.
<gchristensen> tragically it seems my home array is about 50% full somehow
<gchristensen> I feel like I just added 3x 10T disks
<andi-> If you subscribe to my (overprised) 4TB NVMe subscription plan you can solve both issues at once!
<andi-> *overpriced
<sphalerite> andi-: do you have to send the disk back at the end of the month?
<andi-> sphalerite: no, I have an extra package that you can book if you do not trust me with those drives again.
<andi-> The standard package is already at 2.5 * current disk price, the extra package just doubles that.
<andi-> I'll be handcrafting the amazon subscription!
<sphalerite> hm
<andi-> Don't forget: All combinations come preconfigured with randomness.
<etu> ,tofu
<{^_^}> To get a sha256 hash of a new source, you can use the Trust On First Use model: use probably-wrong hash (for example: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000), then replace it with the correct hash Nix expected. For inserting 52 0's in vim: <esc>52i0<esc>
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<bbigras> Do you people use a tool to make sure some config files have the right perms? Like I just found a file that is readable for everyone. with access keys in it.
<cole-h> Note that all files in the nix store are readable by the world.
<bbigras> yes I know. thanks. I meant for files outside the store.
<eyJhb> How would you ensure that bbigras ?
<eyJhb> You could make a module where you add the files with the perms, and then have a systemd unit watching them
<bbigras> I was thinking maybe a tool that builds a database of the file perms. maybe like those intrusion detection tools.
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<eyJhb> Are you thinking default file perms, such as shadow, motd, sshd, etc.?
<bbigras> no. but like .env files. for projects. they are not in the nix store. and we want to make sure they are not readable by everyone
<samueldr> bbigras: tmpfiles.d
<samueldr> tmp is a misnomer
<eyJhb> bbigras: but how would it know who owns the .env file?
<bbigras> I guess intrusion detection tools just whine if the owner or the perms changed.
<bbigras> samueldr: thanks I'll take a look
<sphalerite> hm, tmpfiles.d is good for ensuring permissions one-off, but won't detect or alert if the permissions are too open at any point
<samueldr> yeah, I misunderstood the problem a bit
<eyJhb> chown -R root:root /
<eyJhb> Wonder how much would work
<sphalerite> chmod go-x /
<eyJhb> Group, other -> no execution bit?
<sphalerite> yep.
<sphalerite> Which on a directory means that they can't access anything within it :>
<eyJhb> I always want user -> owner, and thereby get group, owner
<eyJhb> WELL!
<eyJhb> Didn't think of the dir thing actually...
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<infinisil> bbigras: For my nixus secret module, I decided on this structure to leak as little as possible information to other users/groups: https://github.com/Infinisil/nixus/blob/master/modules/secrets.nix#L136-L155
<infinisil> (Secrets there can be owned by either a user or a group)
<infinisil> That's probably not exactly what you're asking, but that's at least the secret structure I use :)
<bbigras> infinisil: thanks!
* kraem am sad setuid doesn’t make files created in a dir inherit the ownership of the dir
<gchristensen> imo nixos shouldn't have stateful modules
<andi-> So everyone handrolls their postgres module?
<infinisil> Arguably every useful module is stateful, because it couldn't do anything if it wasn't
<infinisil> Wait no
<infinisil> Never mind
<cole-h> lol
<gchristensen> truthfully, I don't think nixos should have many modules *at all*, and instead they should be gotten from a marketplace of some sort
<infinisil> I was thinking of "changes the system state", not stateful
<cole-h> gchristensen: How do you envision that working?
<andi-> gchristensen: I think part of the success of nixos comes from the fact that it comes with so much bundled expertise (via the module system)
<gchristensen> yeah
<andi-> cole-h: flake add nixos/modules-nginx … *imperative hacking on flake.nix* done!
<cole-h> lol
<andi-> I am worried by all the interdependencies on modules
<infinisil> In my next-gen nixos modules notes I do have a namespacing of modules, which takes care of modules depending on each other
<andi-> If you want to move them out of nixpkgs what happens to basic stuff like users.users? What if that interface changes? Will we run into the polyrepo releasing hell?
<infinisil> Of course that's not implemented yet, but definitely something I'd want to implement
<gchristensen> flakes, niv, berkshelf, submodules, copy-paste ... I think a lot of modules have few dependencies actually and while I fully agree the "put it in nixos" model helped grow nixos a lot, it also hurts nixos in some ways: very slow to evaluate now, and low quality modules reflect poorly -- for example the "weechat" module is a bit of a joke
<infinisil> Oh yes, eval time is also one of the main reasons for my next-gen module redesign :D
* andi- remembers his WIP weechat module that he wanted to upstream 2y ago
<eyJhb> Not even sure how useful the Weechat module is
<eyJhb> NixOS marketplace
<gchristensen> I think that model helped grow and make nixos what it is today, and also that that model doesn't help grow nixos beyond a certain point of success
<philipp[m]> gchristensen: The quality of the modules has increased drastically in the last few years though.
<eyJhb> There is a big con however of that philipp[m]
<eyJhb> We don't get as many modules, that some might find useful, where we then reinvent the wheel all the time and have no easy way to have a place for "low level, but this works" modules
<andi-> Maybe modules shouldn't be enabled by default but still in nixpkgs. That would address the eval time issue.
<eyJhb> Which could be useful for many :D But high quality is also needed yeah
<andi-> mkdir nixos/staging
<andi-> nixos.enableUnstableStagingModules = true
<cole-h> that's a mouthful
<andi-> nixos.enableUnstableStagingModulesIKnowWhatIamDoing = true
<infinisil> And for everybody that uses at least one such module, eval time wouldn't be any better
<cole-h> much better
<gchristensen> (not commenting on the merit of the idea, adding a option which mixes the name of an unrelated branch and unrelated channel is funny)
<infinisil> Also eval time still increases over time, even if no new things are enabled, just by the fact that new modules are added
<eyJhb> nixos.enableUnstableStagingModulesIKnowWhatIamDoingYesIAcceptTheTermsAsWellIamAExpertDontTryThisAtHome = true
<andi-> What features are we willing to throw away for the speed improvements?
<andi-> eyJhb: add ack'ing the slowness ;-)
<philipp[m]> enableUnstableStagingModulesIKnowWhatIamDoingByAndIllPromiseThatIllalwaysWallItGnuPlusLinux = true
<philipp[m]> *Call
<cole-h> Maybe instead of `modulename1.enable`, we could have `enabledModules = [ "modulename1" "fish" "users" ];` and only load those module? idk, not well-though-out at all
<andi-> what did I start /o\
<gchristensen> I really don't know how any of this actually helps the situation or helps nixos grow beyond its current capacity
<cole-h> Just don't eval any modules outside `enabledModules`
<bbigras> Any way to run a systemd service interactively? I'm trying to renew a ssl cert manually. the service has 3 BindPaths. I would like to avoid having to mount them manually.
<cole-h> maybe that could be paired with infinisil's namespacing idea to make the modules unambiguous without having to refer to the entire path from nixpkgs
<gchristensen> the problem is not all evaluation time, but social, too
<infinisil> andi-: I believe it's possible, and have a plan, to implement a module system that has the same end-user benefits, but whose speed doesn't depend on the number of modules
<andi-> infinisil: nice!
<andi-> infinisil: I recently did some benchmarking and we went from about 2.5s to eval the "simple" nixos test to 3s since April.
<infinisil> andi-: Yeah I also did a bunch of measurements some time ago: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/57477
<{^_^}> #57477 (by Infinisil, 1 year ago, open): `nixos-rebuild --switch` too slow, tracking issue
<gchristensen> it would be nice to have, say, Hashicorp maintain an official Vault service, or Elastic maintain an official ElasticSearch service but today that is basically a handshake deal to other developers in the community not mucking with their expressions
<andi-> It is a steady increase of eval time.
<samueldr> https://beaglev.seeed.cc/ "designed to run linux"
<philipp[m]> bbigras: Enable the service but don't let it depend on multi-user.target.
<philipp[m]> *let multi-user.target depend on it.
<samueldr> with the form factor, I fear RISC-V will "fail just like ARM", in that people will see them as toys or embedded devices
<andi-> gchristensen: I can only see that happen if we move all the things into containers that only have a single script as entry point. An external module might otherwise depend on too much unknown config options.
<gchristensen> yeah, I think there'd be good inroads to be made there, too, for a lot of the services we have
<andi-> samueldr: wasn't there an ITX sized one recently?
<gchristensen> not containers exactly
<samueldr> yeah, but you can make a Raspberry Pi zero ITX sized
<samueldr> (I don't remember seeing details on its actual perfs)
<bbigras> philipp: the service will ask me to hit the "enter" key. Will it work?
<andi-> gchristensen: maybe if they emit a systemd unit file that might be okay and another JSONish file to do the "install"
<andi-> but then you still share the user namespace which might be different.
<samueldr> ah, it's beagle as in beagleboard, at least that makes it big names (beagleboard and seeed) https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/01/seeed-and-beagleboard-team-up-to-provide-a-new-risc-v-based-linux-pc/
<andi-> samueldr: I only remember seeing a bunch of FPGA powered RISCV boards which are a huge no no for me... I can do that already without calling it a RISCV FPGA.
<andi-> It also lacks any kind of decent storage.
<andi-> no NVMe, no eMMC, …
<samueldr> ugh
<andi-> I wouldn't even want to build a build farm with them or run anything that is critical on there.
<samueldr> I see it's a raspberry pi "killer"
<samueldr> same issues ;)
<andi-> just wait for the closed source bootloader
<samueldr> yeah, I don't know what that will look like
<samueldr> hopefully it's just u-boot
<infinisil> Hmm I wonder how Spectre is going
<andi-> I filled out the early access form ealier today and stated exactly that as expected features.
<infinisil> Specrum*
<samueldr> infinisil: try again
<infinisil> Spectrum*!
<andi-> You mean the Mellanox Switching chip?
<samueldr> I believe there are updates on the mailing lists, infinisil https://spectrum-os.org/lists/hyperkitty/
<samueldr> andi-: SD card or firmware, or both?
<andi-> both
<cole-h> The update is: qyliss is taking a break for a little while to combat burnout (but, apparently, is almost ready to come back).
<andi-> I want proper storage & proper bootchain
<andi-> with proper docs.
<samueldr> yeah
<samueldr> oh, and it's sifive
<andi-> not some "just like always"
<philipp[m]> bbigras: I don't think that stdin of the service gets connected to the active terminal in any way.
<bbigras> philipp: yeah. thanks anyway :)
<samueldr> I reaaaaally fear RISC-V will have been destroyed by its openness of design, and that somehow one vendor will shoehorn *its* instructions into the popular ISA
<andi-> samueldr: what I fear more than u-boot is that we will never see big hardware to plug into hydra for RISC-V.
<samueldr> IIRC it's fine for a RISC-V design to add custom instructions[citation needed]
<samueldr> oh, that too
<andi-> There might be a few expensive boards but nothing you would want or could run in large scale.
<samueldr> but fear not, the hard drives probably run RISC-V already if they're quite new
<samueldr> IIRC WD is an early adopter and user of RISC_V
<andi-> yeah and probably better specced than that SBC? :D
<samueldr> I wouldn't think so really
<samueldr> probably the bare minimum to run the firmware they want
<andi-> Maybe, I remember the ARM cores to be not that bad.
<andi-> Like 8 core ARM with 4G of RAM or something on some HDD
<samueldr> oh, then maybe
<samueldr> I assumed they were like those M0 or similar lower specced cores
<andi-> but maybe they just put the complicated stuff in hardware now
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<philipp[m]> Oh, nice. Mod4+Control+Shift+Right" = "move workspace to output right"; is a thing that works in sway.
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<Ashy> the riscv book was a fun read
<Ashy> the designers seem to have really done their homework on existing architectures
<andi-> riscv notebook able to play 8K video when? :D
<energizer> how do i convert .rtf to markdown/ascii/whatever?
<energizer> pandoc doesn't seem to have a --from rtf
<colemickens> Do people have (go)pass ui on windows that is tolerable and not-electron?
<Ashy> andi-: i'm throwing my wallet at irc right now, why is nothing happening???
<bbigras> energizer: could you convert the rtf to docx with word. pandoc supports doc I think
<energizer> homie i dont have word
<energizer> ok pkgs.unrtf
<bbigras> me neither but maybe google docs or something
<andi-> Ashy: just wire it to me.
<energizer> are there any chat programs that support all the popular chat protocols these days?
<andi-> weechat?
<samueldr> yes, quassel, quassel does IRC
<samueldr> IRC is popular with me
<samueldr> (sorry)
<andi-> I always prefer the protocols that I can still use via netcat if I have to.
<samueldr> andi-: good ol' ssl over netcat ;)
<andi-> openssl s_client... or the proper nc with ssl support :P
<energizer> in the good ol days pidgin could do it all
<andi-> including executing code from strangers
<andi-> I very well remember that MSN image upload exploit where you could send anything to any location and also download IIRC
<energizer> huh weechat actually does support a huge number of protocols
<andi-> yeah and it is properly scriptable
<energizer> how flexible is the ui? could it support zulip's server > channel > thread hierarchy?
<andi-> not sure
<andi-> I already hate the slack threads
<energizer> maybe i need to wait for the next generation of guis to come from druid