gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
Jackneill has joined #nixos-chat
<gchristensen> y'all ready for this conjunction?
<pie_> whomstdvenst?
<samueldr> the satellites thing?
<pie_> thats a contraction but eh
<pie_> samueldr: ohhh
<gchristensen> "We are monitoring a very high risk conjunction between two large defunct objects in LEO. Multiple data points show miss distance <25m and Pc between 1% and 20%. Combined mass of both objects is ~2,800kg."
<pie_> yeah so if everyones internet goes out in ...how soon?
<gchristensen> 10 minutes
<pie_> how many satellites are downstream of this shotgun
<pie_> is there a live stream or something? :P
<gchristensen> pie_: potentially, all of them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome / Gravity style
<pie_> yeah
<pie_> not looking forward to that
<gchristensen> hopefully it doesn't happen and then we figure out how to clean up space
<pie_> uhuh
<pie_> "you guys remember that time we told you about epidmic preparedness?"
<samueldr> could it be cleaned up by making a ring around the planet, so that all of the debris gets accreted into a disc?
<gchristensen> hehehe
<samueldr> imagine havint to tell your grandkids "when I was young, there wasn't a ring around Sol-III
<gchristensen> "they installed that ring back in the covid wars"
<pie_> pfff
<pie_> yall so cool
<pie_> i want to read some scifi now
<pie_> make sure the ring is running nixos tho
<pie_> problem is space has...a lot of space i think
<pie_> among other things
<gchristensen> the ocean does too
<gchristensen> well
<gchristensen> a lot of ocean
<pie_> yeah but at least the ocean is relatively 2d, idk how that looks for orbit
<pie_> maybe
<pie_> but also, idk if you want stuff like that anywhere near iss :o
<pie_> *:p
<pie_> theres probably a ton of papers on this but like
<pie_> the way to get stuff to deorbit is to slow it down
<pie_> idk what an efficient way to do that in space is
<pie_> also without making it disintegrate
<samueldr> would kesslering ourselves help with HAM transmissions?
<gchristensen> hehehe I dunno
<samueldr> and you say you're studying for your license?
<pie_> hungry :C
<samueldr> should be chapter 1 material!
<gchristensen> pie_: afaik there is some agreement now to make sure satellites destroy themselves "cleanly" at their EOL
<pie_> sounds good
<gchristensen> but there are lots up there already
<pie_> im still salty about iridium flares not being a thing anymore or something
<gchristensen> and look at the visualisation -- lots of junk too https://www.leolabs.space/
<pie_> id only started trying to observe them :(
<ajs124> samueldr: do I hear someone talking about OSCAR?
<samueldr> ajs124: I don't know, do you?
<samueldr> I don't know what OSCAR is
<samueldr> well, I know two
<ajs124> Orbiting Satellite Carrying Amateur Radio
<samueldr> a green muppet
<samueldr> and the old AOL instant messenger protocol
<samueldr> nope, not talking OSCAR, definitely
<pie_> "As the Iridium constellation consisted of 66 working satellites, Iridium flares were visible quite often (2 to 4 times per night). Flares of brightness −5 magnitude occurred 3 to 4 times per week, and −8 magnitude were visible 3 to 5 times per month for stationary observers. " "From 2017 to 2019, a new generation of Iridium satellites was deployed which does not exhibit the characteristic flares. As the first generation were replaced
<pie_> and retired, flares became less frequent. The last of the first-generation satellites was deorbited on 27 December 2019, ending predictable Iridium flares" :(
<gchristensen> the drop in altitude is probably not related https://www.heavens-above.com/IssHeight.aspx?lat=0&lng=0&loc=Unspecified&alt=0
<gchristensen> oh interesting, pie_
<pie_> i got to see 2 or 3 flares
<gchristensen> this is probably great advertising for leolabs
<ajs124> I have to say, I really like the word "deorbit". It's such a nice way to describe "it burnt up in the atmosphere".
<pie_> well its a lot shorter to say
<samueldr> also less scary than "fell back towards earth"
<ajs124> it's like saying "Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly" instead of "it blew up". sounds much less disastrous :D
<pie_> heh
<danderson> gchristensen: yes, satellites have to retain enough fuel to deorbit themselves at the end of their service life, or boost themselves into a graveyard orbit if deorbiting isn't feasible (e.g. geosynchronous orbit)
<gchristensen> oh hey danderson
<danderson> hi!
monsieurp has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<infinisil> Idea: What if there were alternate unicode mappings that minimize UTF-8 size for specific demographics
rajivr has joined #nixos-chat
<gchristensen> oh dear
<ajs124> like iso codepages or what?
<samueldr> then it wouldn'T be UTF-8 :)
<infinisil> E.g. instead of Emoji's being 4 or 8 or however many bytes, they'd be moved towards 2-byte values
<samueldr> UTF-millenials
<ajs124> just use UTF16-LE. take a page from M$'s book
<infinisil> Tbh UTF16 seems really wasteful for most texts
<gchristensen> I can't fathom how expensive it would be to dothat :)
monsieurp has joined #nixos-chat
<infinisil> gchristensen: To do what?
<gchristensen> implement localized versions of UTF8
<gchristensen> we still can't get regular flavor UTF8 right, yet
<infinisil> Hm yeah
<infinisil> Also, probably any efficiency benefit would be achieved anyways by just compressing the data
<gchristensen> an astonishing amount of money goes in to detecting that a utf-8 lookalike was used to try to phish someone
<samueldr> I don't want to "well actually"
<ajs124> lооkаlikеs rеаllу cаn bе аnnоуing :P
<samueldr> but well actually, you're thinking of unicode, which would end up the same
<samueldr> whatever encoding was used
<gchristensen> right
<samueldr> or whichever*
<samueldr> but yeah, still would be expensive to get UTF-millenials in addition to UTF-8, and in addition to all other existing
<samueldr> and not discounting e.g. UTF-$NATION that doesn't allow encoding $OTHER_NATION scripts
<ajs124> samueldr: at least your log manages to deal with my message above
<ldlework> Anyone around here handy with react that can answer some conceptual questions?
<samueldr> you could still ask if it's like a one-liner, but I might not be up to the task, been a while since I las used React, so I know nothing of the new fancyness
maxdevjs has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
endformationage has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.9]
<infinisil> ARGH
<cole-h> Yo-ho?
<infinisil> How can it be so hard to prevent my screen from being powered off when viewing a video in firefox
<infinisil> I read through firefox source, through xscreensaver source, through xorg and xdg screensaver specs, it just doesn't work!
<cole-h> Just view the video in mpv and set it so your screen never sleeps when mpv is open :)
<infinisil> mpv actually never makes it suspend, it's only firefox
<cole-h> Just view it in mpv then :P
<cole-h> But yeah, that's never worked for me, either
<cole-h> (But I also don't encounter it often... maybe because I'm hyperactive at my computer and never "AFK" for long)
<infinisil> That's some dbus thing firefox supposedly calls
<infinisil> But what's org.freedesktop.ScreenSaver?
<infinisil> Like seriously, what is that, I can't find any potential service that listens for that
<infinisil> xscreensaver doesn't, slock doesn't
<infinisil> ,locate xorg.freedesktop.ScreenSaver.service
<{^_^}> Couldn't find in any packages
<infinisil> Not packaged for nixpkgs (yet) though
<infinisil> No that's totally not going to work
<infinisil> I also can't use gnome's screen saver just like that, because "gnome-screensaver is deprecated. If you are using GNOME Flashback, it now has a built-in lock screen. If you are using it elsewhere, you can try xscreenlock or other alternatives"
<{^_^}> #95896 (by Enzime, 7 weeks ago, merged): firefox: fix libXScrnSaver dynamic dependency
<infinisil> I think this, plus running xscreensaver in the background might do the job
cole-h has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
<sphalerite> infinisil: I think a lot more savings can be achieved by compressing UTF-8 at a much lower cost.
<sphalerite> or UTF-16 for that matter
<sphalerite> I imagine there wouldn't be too much difference compressing the same text between UTF-8 and UTF-16
<steveeJ> infinisil: I've had my issues with xscreensaver WRT locking the screen manually and keeping the behavior consistent with the automatic locking. I have since switched to i3lock. I'm using home-manager and its auto-locker module too
<steveeJ> infinisil: I still don't fully understand the situation here though, because even if I disable the xss-lock and xautolock something triggers the screen to go black after a while
<steveeJ> infinisil: oh, and to your original problem. I actually manually disable the services in order to prevent screen locking :-/ are you watching the videos in firefox in fullscreen?
<sphalerite> steveeJ: screen going black is built into the X server, have a look at what `xset q` says about screensaver and DPMS
spudly has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<steveeJ> sphalerite: oh, I didn't know that the screensaver somehow registers with the X server. I'm surprised it activates i3lock when I do `xset s activate`!
<steveeJ> sphalerite: do you happen to know how to configure it so that it won't blank the screen of turn if off after while, but still allow the screensaver to do so?
madjar has joined #nixos-chat
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
<sphalerite> steveeJ: not sure, xset is probably the right command, check the manpage :)
spudly has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
__Sander__ has joined #nixos-chat
<steveeJ> sphalerite: thanks :-)
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
spudly has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<pie_> hm internet still seems decent
<pie_> no kessler syndrome yet?
<Taneb> Not so far
<pie_> give it a few weeks? :P
<leonardp> did they collide?
<joepie91> it's my understanding that they did not
<pie_> aha good
<leonardp> ah, just read their twitter... you starteled me
<leonardp> everything appears to be fine
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
spudly has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
cjpbirkbeck has quit [Quit: Goodbye, take care]
maxdevjs has joined #nixos-chat
<ar> 2020 is underdelivering
<ar> i was really hoping for some kessler syndrome action
<ashkitten> to me kessler syndrome is scary on the level of a global pandemic... and we already got one of those this year
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
spudly has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
spudly has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
__Sander__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
__Sander__ has joined #nixos-chat
maxdevjs has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
spudly has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
hsngrmpf[m] is now known as DavHau[m]
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
spudly has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
spudly has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
ghuntley has joined #nixos-chat
kini has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
kini has joined #nixos-chat
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
spudly has quit [Client Quit]
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
spudly has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
spudly has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
spudly has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
spudly has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
spudly has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
FRidh has joined #nixos-chat
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
spudly has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
abathur has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
abathur has joined #nixos-chat
evanjs- has joined #nixos-chat
cransom has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.7.1]
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
evanjs has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
cransom has joined #nixos-chat
evanjs- has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in]
spudly has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
evanjs has joined #nixos-chat
<gchristensen> what is "pudding", where "black" and "yorkshire" are both it?
adamt has joined #nixos-chat
<cransom> huh. the original meaning seems like it was a catch all for just a side dish as part of a meal. as dessert usage, seems to be a modern thing.
<Taneb> gchristensen: things that are delicious
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
adisbladis has joined #nixos-chat
spudly has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
spudly has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
spudly has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
<gchristensen> https://gsc.io/snaps/fa568483-34af-44e7-aca3-491726b0ee8f.png I should swittch the top bar to zenity or something, too... this top bar resizes all the windows when it opens
<abathur> doh
endformationage has joined #nixos-chat
cole-h has joined #nixos-chat
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
spudly has quit [Client Quit]
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
<sphalerite> gchristensen: I really hit your taste with zenity, didn't I? x)
<gchristensen> it is bad :( in the best way :)
<gchristensen> I wonder if there is a way to reduce / minimize nix-diff's output
spudly has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<gchristensen> maybe a way to only show parts which start with "The environments do not match:" ...
<gchristensen> ekleog: I don't suppose you'd be interested in working on that, actually :P https://github.com/Gabriel439/nix-diff/issues/8 ?
<{^_^}> Gabriel439/nix-diff#8 (by Ekleog, 2 years ago, open): Shorten trees consisting only of “These two derivations have already been compared” as the leafs.
<aleph-> Nix con is gonna be recorded ja?
<andi-> yes
<aleph-> Cool
<aleph-> "NixOps for Proxmox" would be good if I could get proxmox's bits running on nixOS
* infinisil has had way too much fun making random claps in Nix for #nixcon
<aleph-> heh
tilpner has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
rajivr has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
abathur has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
abathur has joined #nixos-chat
__monty__ has joined #nixos-chat
<infinisil> Oh no
<samueldr> oh no?
<infinisil> The C++ code I'm just working on (Nix itself) only works if I leave a print statement in..
<infinisil> If I remove it, it segfaults
<samueldr> oh no!
xd1le has joined #nixos-chat
<infinisil> I think it has something to do with the compiler doing TCO
<infinisil> And the print preventing that
<infinisil> Or inlining
<ekleog> gchristensen: TBH I only know I won't have time for that in the upcoming month, and would be quite surprised if I didn't have something higher on my todolist anytime in the upcoming year ^^'
<pie_> oh cool i just noticed the bottom of the homepage now links to channel status, cool
<sphalerite> infinisil: time to rewrite it in rust
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
madjar has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
spudly has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
tilpner has joined #nixos-chat
ninjin_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ninjin_ has joined #nixos-chat
cole-h has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
<infinisil> Figured it out: It was caused by a union not being overridden completely, still partly refering to previous values of a different type
<infinisil> Something that couldn't have happened in Rust :)
adamt has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<Taneb> Hmm, it looks like there has been some effort at rewriting nix in Rust in the repo? What's the status of that? What's the *goal* of that?
<aanderse> [Taneb](https://matrix.to/#/@freenode_Taneb:matrix.org): if you're talking about the rust code that was in nix it has been removed
<aanderse> had a small chat about that in one of the breakout rooms today
<Taneb> Ah
<aanderse> there was talk that it might make sense to write separate parts of nix in rust if the could then communicate via ipc or whatever
<aanderse> The point being that it wouldn't be frankensteining rust onto c++
FRidh has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
<{^_^}> nix#4154 (by Infinisil, 4 minutes ago, open): [WIP] Lazy attribute names
<Taneb> aanderse: that makes sense
<aanderse> as someone who maintains a ton of legacy code... you have to pick your battles, you can't rewrite everything every time
<aanderse> so yeah, incremental / selective pieces where you get the most bang for your buck does sound good (and pragmatic)
spudly has joined #nixos-chat
<infinisil> Corona cases in Switzerland increasing a lot.. https://paste.infinisil.com/6QOe9flsBY.png
<infinisil> Guess I won't go out for a while longer :(
<samueldr> here it's been said (and shown) that things take about two weeks until they affect the counts
<samueldr> I don't have a link with local stats that would show a graph similar to yours, but if population listens (generally) it might take a week before it looks like it's getting better
<andi-> aanderse, Taneb: there is still a bunch of rust in the repo: https://github.com/NixOS/nix/tree/master/nix-rust
<samueldr> we just got a bad wave through the province
<infinisil> samueldr: Yeah..
<samueldr> this is since march
<samueldr> the peak to the right, in my region, is basically a week an a couple of days ago
<infinisil> That's france?
<samueldr> nope, Capitale-Nationale, Québec
<energizer> I want nixos on a raspi4. Does that just work automatically, or is there extra work?
<samueldr> depends on what you do
<samueldr> on what you want to do*
<samueldr> things aren't exactly smooth right now with the raspberry pi 4, vendor stuff is not great, and mainline is just about to be good
<samueldr> just like the pi 3, mainline vs. vendor is a big headache
<energizer> i dont want to do anything unusual, idk if that answers the question
<samueldr> that doesn't at all
<samueldr> because "anything unusual" means nothing here :)
<samueldr> if you want to use any piece of additional hardware, that's an issue
<samueldr> e.g. hats and such things
<energizer> i dont need any extra hardware but will use bluetooth
maxdevjs has joined #nixos-chat
<energizer> and wifi
<samueldr> what I will say is that for now, it's not _supported_, but there are ways to run NixOS and YMMV
<energizer> i'm not so much interested in 'supported' since it's not like i can get my money back when a supported thing is broken :)
<energizer> if i put an hour into it, what's the chance it'll be working at the end?
<energizer> 50/50?
<samueldr> probably more than 50/50 if you really are not doing anyting unusual :)
<samueldr> and also it probably is 80/20 depending on whether the same would work on raspbery pi os
<samueldr> the main factors would be your experience level and sticktoitiveness I guess
__Sander__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
<infinisil> A couple weeks ago I tried to update my system, but quickly reverted because overall performance was awful
<infinisil> I tried again just now, and I figured out what it was: linuxPackages_latest
<infinisil> Not setting boot.kernelPackages to that makes my machine go brrrr
slack1256 has joined #nixos-chat
cjpbirkbeck has joined #nixos-chat
xd1le has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
xd1le has joined #nixos-chat
<infinisil> Oh and I just tested https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/95896, it works!
<{^_^}> #95896 (by Enzime, 8 weeks ago, merged): firefox: fix libXScrnSaver dynamic dependency
__monty__ has quit [Quit: leaving]
<infinisil> No need for xscreensaver (in fact using xscreensaver makes it not work), just using a firefox with this patch makes it not go sleepy anymore when playing videos!
<elvishjerricco> Anyone have anything akin to LUKS key slots for ZFS native encrypted root? My only thought is to have a LUKS partition with a key file on it, but nixos mounts file systems after it loads ZFS keys in stage 1 so that wouldn't work
slack1256 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<infinisil> I also just fixed another issue I was having: When my HDMI projector gets turned off with DPMS, pulseaudio switches to it as the default audio sink when waking back up
<infinisil> Which is no good, because I want to still use my headset for audio
<infinisil> To fix it, I made sure to use pulseaudio's builtin priority system for sinks, which conveniently ranks the HDMI output lowest: https://github.com/Infinisil/system/commit/d348cca3d5abd2c81e51224e0bff3af461941c8e
<infinisil> Both the firefox issue and this pulseaudio issue I lived with for more than a year at least by now. So now that I finally took the time to solve them, it feels really good :D
<evalexpr> Hmm, acpi has started reporting "Unknown, X%" randomly since today at some point for me.. no clue why
<infinisil> evalexpr: That sounds like a failing battery (at least the percentage reporting)
<aminechikhaoui> Hello I've asked this in #musl but didn't get a reply yet, I figured NixOS peeps might know :) "can a glibc based binary be able to load a musl based shared library ? More specifically, I have a Java JNI shared lib that I want to build using musl but then be able to load from "arbitrary" systems/JVMs"
<infinisil> I heard that estimating the percentage is actually really tricky over time
<aminechikhaoui> "also worth mentioning that the JNI libs are fairly simple with no extra dependencies other than libc (at least from looking at the headers)"
<evalexpr> infinisil: sorry, X was a placeholder for the current % :)
<infinisil> Ah I see :)
<infinisil> aminechikhaoui: That sounds like a #nixos or #nixos-dev question
<aminechikhaoui> you think ? it seemed more of a broad glibc/musl question to me so I didn't want to spam there
<aminechikhaoui> but I can ask there also :)
<elvishjerricco> aminechikhaoui: If I had to guess, I'd wager it wouldn't be compatible. I don't think there's any reason to believe that glibc and musl are ABI compatible
<infinisil> Oh, this isn't related to nixos
<infinisil> Never mind then
<elvishjerricco> They may implement the same API for compiling against, but the actual binary output may differ. E.g. one may use a macro where the other uses an actual function.
<elvishjerricco> Or they may declare the same struct, but with different binary representation
<aminechikhaoui> elvishjerricco hm I see, so if I want to test that and see how it breaks I guess I need to not only dlopen but also execute the functions. The kind of breakage is segfaults I guess ?
<elvishjerricco> aminechikhaoui: Frankly anything could happen :P
<aminechikhaoui> because as a quick test I did dlopen from a glibc based little program the jni lib after some minor patchelf surgery which worked but that doesn't tell anything I guess
<elvishjerricco> As an aside, this is precisely why Java has the crazy ClassLoader separation; so different parts of your program can rely on different implementations/versions of the same API.
avn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<evalexpr> infinisil: I'm a fool and was duped by TLP charging thresholds that I forgot I had set up... :) battery is probably fine after all
slack1256 has joined #nixos-chat