gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
<lovesegfault> infinisil: you just don't understand it
<lovesegfault> it was _recorded_ live, you see
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<infinisil> xD
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<ldlework> Anyone mind if I paste a few lines to show something neat?
<cole-h> If you ,paste it :P
<ldlework> oops
<ldlework> I am writing some Emacs integration for Foundry Virtual Tabletop a browser thing. This is some lisp. It's demonstrating (let) form, which is a lisp can bind local variables. However, some of the bindings are using [] instead of (). For the right-hand-side of those square-bracket bindings, they are sent as lisp to a JS module I wrote running in Foundry that transpiles the lisp to javascript,
<ldlework> executes it, then sends back a message with the result as JSON, which gets bound to the local variable.
<ldlework> You can see how I am mixing local and remote bindings.
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<eyJhb> :( nixos-unstable, 4 days old again
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<lovesegfault> More like 4 days YOUND
<lovesegfault> *YOUNG
<lovesegfault> I've seen it go to like 11 days IIRC
<eyJhb> lovesegfault: I have seen it at 1 hour!
<eyJhb> :p
<eyJhb> Not sure if I should make a packer file for a project, so more can benefit from it, or that I should just port it to NixOS
<lovesegfault> The latter is always the correct answer :D
<eyJhb> True, but I have 4 groupmates that do NOT have NixOS installed :p
<lovesegfault> They can still use Nix :P
<sphalerite> eyJhb: make a packer file that delegates all the actual work to nixos
<lovesegfault> I used Nix on Gentoo before I moved to NixOS
<eyJhb> lovesegfault: I have two on windows, one on mac, and a ubuntu guy.. :p
<eyJhb> ALso, fuck these installation instructions https://github.com/intrig-unicamp/mininet-wifi#installation
<lovesegfault> windows can use WSL
<eyJhb> sphalerite: Any examples?
<lovesegfault> mac can still use Nix
<lovesegfault> or just a VM
<lovesegfault> ubuntu guy can be converted :P
<eyJhb> Or are you saying make a Packer file, which uses NixOS as the guest OS sphalerite ?
<eyJhb> lovesegfault: I have tried, no dice
<sphalerite> eyJhb: yes, that
<eyJhb> Are you actually kidding me
<eyJhb> Who hates themself so much, to not just use packer?
<eyJhb> I haven't played with the kernel in a while, so what does this mean - # kernel must have NETNS/VETH/SCHED, in, how can I check if I have that enabled?
<srk> something like zcat /proc/config.gz | grep VETH
<eyJhb> Thanks :D
<eyJhb> Do we have some kind of easy way to rebuild a kernel/add config options to it?
<srk> with nixos you declare that you need these .. ^
<srk> :D
<sphalerite> srk: there's also zgrep :D
<eyJhb> I am gessing overlays srk ?
<eyJhb> I went the long way with doing those greps...
<srk> sphalerite: hah, true!
<srk> eyJhb: yup, sort of
<eyJhb> Time for some dvorak-qwerty crossover...
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<lovesegfault> jtojnar: for whenever you wake up: I think I sorted everything out with #98917 :)
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/98917 (by lovesegfault, 2 weeks ago, open): klipper: init at 0.8.0
<eyJhb> Lets just sleep all over the sourcecode - https://termbin.com/u12nu that will not cause weird issues, or a slow as hell system
<eyJhb> tazjin talyz if taylan (#nixos) start being a regular at #nixos-chat, then I am so fucked.
<Taneb> Yeah, it's awful there's so many people whose nick begins ta
<eyJhb> Taneb: part of the problem!
<eyJhb> :(
<Taneb> :P
<Taneb> Anyone know anywhere hiring remote people who know Nix and/or Haskell in a western European time zone?
<srk> iohk
<sphalerite> Taneb: if you're not picky about not working on blockchain stuff maybe iohk, I think they take people from everywhere
<Taneb> I'd really rather avoid blockchain (and also AI)
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<sphalerite> there's also serokell, but they're also going hard on blockchain and AI x)
<Taneb> You see my problem
<eyJhb> Taneb: Why do you hate the blockchain? </3
<srk> oO new vis https://iohk.io/
<immae> Taneb: did you try tweag.io?
<Taneb> immae: hmm, I applied with them a while back and didn't end up going with them... what's the appropriate length of time between applying for the same place twice?
<immae> (In my company we check all your boxes - remote, working on nix and haskell in France - except that we’re not hiring currently :/ )
<immae> Oh I don’t know then
<eyJhb> Given it is Tweag I guess they are rather chill
<eyJhb> So, now?
<Taneb> Works for me
<eyJhb> That is atleast what I assume, isn't that the place that graham, adis, etc. work?
<eyJhb> And niknut(s) ?
<immae> If you’re interested in working in transportation (not much better than blockchain in terms of environment) I may ask if my company is hiring in the forseeable future
<Taneb> immae: please do
<eyJhb> immae: transport of goods?
<immae> yes
<immae> optimisation for transportation
<Taneb> immae: that sounds pretty interesting, actually
<talyz> eyJhb: view it as a challenge!
<eyJhb> I will not :(
<eyJhb> I have no clue why the Ta names are that hard
<immae> ok, no hiring in 2020 sorry
<Taneb> immae: early 2021? *hopeful*
<immae> that will depend on how well the company is
<immae> but it will come back at some point for sure
<eyJhb> immae: what company is it?
<immae> FretLink
<eyJhb> Do you use Nix for everything?
<immae> not "everything", only the CI
<immae> and to package our tools
<immae> the deployments are done via clevercloud so we’re not managing it
<Taneb> immae: ah, might be an issue that I don't speak much French
<immae> it’s not
<immae> you might have to live in France (for legal reasons, maybe it improved recently) but you don’t have to speak French
<Taneb> OK
<immae> however since we’re starting to grow outside of France maybe this legal reason is no more relevant
<Taneb> If you're going to expand into Italy that would work very well for me
<immae> ha ha
<Taneb> Or the UK but with Brexit I don't particularly want to stay here
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<eyJhb> Taneb: Going to Italy?
<Taneb> eyJhb: that's the plan, my partner's Italian
<eyJhb> Ohhhh
<eyJhb> Seems nice, maybe tha Mafia has something? ;) Taneb
<eyJhb> `Mafia revenues amounted to around 0.7 percent of Italy's gross domestic product` :D
<Taneb> I don't think the Mafia do much in the way of functional programming
<Luciole> hmm, who knows
<eyJhb> Taneb: Well, one could hope!
<eyJhb> Maybe you can change that ;)
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<sphalerite> Taneb: ha, I know another person who's planning to leave the UK and probably move to Italy with their Italian partner as well :D
<Taneb> sphalerite: that's wild, are you sure you don't know me twice? :P
<eyJhb> sphalerite: anyone coming to DK? :(
<eyJhb> Mixing up all the ta's maybe?
<sphalerite> Taneb: I don't _think_ so :D
<eyJhb> I have one considering moving from UK to DK, but that is mostly because she comes from DK
<eyJhb> But hell it is hard pulling someone out of the UK if they are born and raised there
<sphalerite> Taneb: there's also https://standard.ai/ which is AI but they have strong privacy principles from what I've heard, I know they use Nix but I don't know if they're hiring and especially if they're hiring outside the US. ekleog_ works there last I heard
<immae> eyJhb: DK = Danemark? If my partner was not so chilly it’s definitly the kind of country I would dream to live in
<eyJhb> sphalerite: Looks cool!
<eyJhb> immae Yeah, Denmark :D - Anything in particular you are looking for/like?
<immae> I’ve always been quite in harmony with Scandinavian way of living (I spent some time in Sweden long ago), that’s all :p
<eyJhb> It is a nice place in general, I however like the Swedish nature a lot more. But generally, it is a nice place to live!
<eyJhb> You are currently located in France?
<immae> yes, in Nice
<Luciole> is it, y'know, nice?
* Luciole ducks
<Luciole> (I'm sorry, that's probably a waay overdone pun)
<immae> (it is :p )
<etu> :D
<Luciole> hmm, it's so far south
<Luciole> I guess I keep forgetting france is kinda big and stretches pretty far south
<Taneb> It goes all the way to the south coast of France
<Taneb> And actually a bit further, looking at a map, looks like the southernmost part of mainland France is in the Pyrenees?
<immae> a little too much south for me, wayy too much north for my partner :p
<immae> (it is the Pyrenees indeed if you remove all extra islands)
<Luciole> immae: haha, I visited Paris a bit earlier this year, and found that to be a bit too warm at times already.. I'd probably die in southern france in the summer
<eyJhb> ... weechat silently DC, and not sending messages...
<immae> eyJhb: Well yes, that is exactly why I cannot convince my partner to go in Scandinavian countries :p
<eyJhb> We have warm jackets?
<eyJhb> And non-idiotic insurances
<eyJhb> Not sure how well France/Italy is... But I have heard the healthcare is not that great in Italy :(
<Luciole> (/window bare is nice btw for copy-pasting lines in weechat :p)
<Taneb> eyJhb: healthcare in Italy varies a *lot* region to region (it's devolved)
<eyJhb> Luciole: alt+l :D
<Luciole> ye
<eyJhb> We had a somehow bad experience with it
<eyJhb> Broken kneecap, and the nurses kept removing the chair to have the leg level (the waiting room was not full)
<eyJhb> And was just thrown around from doctor to doctor, having to come to THEM, with a fractered kneecap all over the hospital :\
<eyJhb> broken -> fractured
<sphalerite> aren't they the same thing?
<eyJhb> sphalerite: I guess one term is more specific than the other, it was a single fracture
<eyJhb> Whereas I guess broken could be multiple or shattered?
<eyJhb> When that is said, I would like a wine garden/whatever in Italy :p
<eyJhb> ,ping
<{^_^}> pong
<eyJhb> Perfect
<immae> eyJhb: healthcare in France is very reasonnable (in terms of access even for poor people, which I find satisfying) but a bit too much abused too because of that
<eyJhb> Abused how?
<immae> It’s almost free, so people tend to abuse it
<eyJhb> But, abused in what way? For drugs?
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<immae> In particular yes
<immae> It’s very easy to get prescriptions for things you don’t have, you just have to go to ten physicians until one is tired enough to give you what you want
<immae> and in the end you pay nothing because everything is reimbursed
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<sphalerite> I'd rather have a system that is occasionally abused than a system that fails to provide care for people who really need it
<immae> sphalerite: I’m not saying it should not be that way, in contrary :)
<immae> But maybe people should be more conscious that healthcare is not free even if they don’t have to open their wallet
<immae> thankfully our government is changing that
<immae> (it’s ironical, they’re pushing closer to an american-like system :( )
<eyJhb> ,ping
<{^_^}> pong
<joepie91> that problem sounds solvable by having people have a fixed physician?
<joepie91> back before neoliberal asshats decided to tear down our healthcare system, we had nationalized healthcare as well but you were signed up with a specific "family doctor", and AFAIK it did not have this issue
<joepie91> (Netherlands)
<eyJhb> We have the same here, but you can be seen by anyone else as well in special cases
<eyJhb> joepie91: What did you do to your healtcare system?
<immae> I don’t think forcing a given physician to people is a good thing either. Physicians have flaws too and people may get hurt by that
<joepie91> eyJhb: blah blah market forces blah blah competition blah blah, and now we have a bizarro system where you are legally required to contract with a private party for insurance (at penalty of being fined by the government, or in some cases even imprisoned), queues have *increased* because many small medical practices have trouble surviving, 300% more bureaucratic bullshit, everyone is paying more for healthcare, coverage has
<joepie91> significantly decreased, and the insurance companies are laughing all the way to the bank
<joepie91> immae: it's not "forcing", rather it's that you choose a specific physician as your standard one
<eyJhb> Well then, I am not coming to NL then
<joepie91> and they are your point of contact for anything medical
<eyJhb> Thought you were doing great regarding that
<eyJhb> Also, the assistet suicide thing as well
<immae> joepie91: ah ok sorry that’s not what I understood from what you said :)
<joepie91> and while you *can* walk into a random physician's office as a "passerby", that's going to raise eyebrows if you do it to 10 different practices
<joepie91> eyJhb: we were doing great regarding this about 30 years ago, then neoliberalism happened
<joepie91> and it's been steadily downhill since
<joepie91> it's definitely not as bad as the US yet, but it's, uh, clear that the US has been taken as inspiration here
<joepie91> there's parallel stories for lots of other government services that have been (semi-)privatized over the past few decades of neoliberal policy
<eyJhb> Maybe the NL population was too high?
<joepie91> no, there was no actual issue with the previous system
<joepie91> it got pushed through with the usual shitty "we're spending so much money on healthcare as a country, we can make it more efficient by outsourcing it to the market!" bullshit
<joepie91> it worked fine
<eyJhb> Yeah, but there is the thing that healthcare in general will never really use LESS
<joepie91> it's the same story for all the other privatized shit, it was functioning just fine before everything got "privatized"
<joepie91> (airquotes because NL apparently loves the construction of privatizing government services and still keeping a financial interest in it as the government, just without the regulation)
<eyJhb> At the start, a lot of money was pumped in to universal healthcare, because there was a backlog that needed to be taken care of, with the thought it would go down after some time
<eyJhb> But we are still waiting for that
<joepie91> eyJhb: far as I am aware, the numbers worked out here
<joepie91> pretty sure costs have actually gone *up* due to idiotic ideas like "own risk", ie. the amount you need to pay out of pocket before you get insurance coverage
<joepie91> which has the result of people avoiding healthcare because of the upfront cost, so issues get worse
<joepie91> and then it becomes much more expensive to deal with them
<eyJhb> When did it start this "privatize" thing?
<joepie91> eyJhb: 2005-2006 I believe
<joepie91> it was one of the things that got privatized later
<eyJhb> But it will most likely never really go down
<eyJhb> ALso considering the increasing population, and the unhealthy habbits people have
<eyJhb> Like not getting enough sunlight I guess!
<eyJhb> :(
<joepie91> those are not actually the main factor
<joepie91> it's "vergrijzing", I'm not sure how it translates
<joepie91> average age of the population getting higher as birth rate drops
<eyJhb> Yup, and cultures as well impact the systems as well...
<eyJhb> As some cultures have a habbit of developing specific symptoms
<joepie91> no really, it's pretty much just this average age increase, AFAIK
<eyJhb> Yeah, that is a factor, but there is a huge amount of other stuff
<joepie91> that's my point, there isn't :P
<eyJhb> Also, the reason I mentioned assisted suicide is, that it might also be able to reduce the money spent :p
<joepie91> from all the data I've seen, this is the factor in healthcare spending (aside from insurance companies pocketing money ofc), and everything else is negligible
<sphalerite> eyJhb: oh no, not the sunlight again! x)
<eyJhb> Well, if you start with the bigger things, with larger groups it might help. But I think one of the bigger ones, are spending money and resources on people who simply do not want to be in the system anymore, etc.
<eyJhb> sphalerite: :( It really hurt
<eyJhb> I can actually see how much all that cost in total. Like 0 for me. but for the state :p
<joepie91> (I do think that assisted suicide should be legalized, but that is unrelated to healthcare spending)
<sphalerite> joepie91: aging population I think
<eyJhb> In some cases would could save a healthy sum on that
<eyJhb> At least from my experince... Also, pain and suffering
<eyJhb> Taneb: We should get NixOS into hospitals
<eyJhb> Holy hell I would like to work on that
<etu> No state!
<Taneb> Hmm, I have a friend who works for a company that makes surgery robots...
<eyJhb> etu: no state hospitals? :D
<eyJhb> In gerenal, I so want a healthcare system, tha builds on the opensource things
<eyJhb> Would be amazing
<etu> eyJhb: More like, journals and stuff has to be stateless ;)
<eyJhb> Everything that can!
<eyJhb> Generally, it would be awesome with more free stuff ...
<etu> eyJhb: Are you aware of https://gnuhealth.org/#/download/projects ?
<eyJhb> / opensource.. I think France is going that way with some things
<eyJhb> Nope, not aware of that
<eyJhb> I can see it is Python?
<eyJhb> etu: are you going to port it to Nix?
<etu> eyJhb: No
<etu> :D
<eyJhb> YEEEES :D
<eyJhb> But good and bad that it is Python :p I would have loved some Rust/Go
<eyJhb> Go/Rust**
ekleog_ is now known as ekleog
<eyJhb> I wonder who uses GNU Health in practice?
<sphalerite> eyJhb: Gran Canaria, apparently.
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<infinisil> My brother packages windows software for a hospital :o
<sphalerite> Does anyone know how to find out how old a google account is?
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<gchristensen> gosh, is there a convenient way to source a file in bash relative to the current file?
<lassulus> source $(dirname $0)/file ?
<gchristensen> yeah...uglybutokay
<makefu> just make sure to surround everything with " -> `. "$(dirname "$0")/file"`
<gchristensen> good ol' filenames with \n's in them
<makefu> spaces would even break the one above
<gchristensen> yeah
<gchristensen> annoyingly, SC1090: Can't follow non-constant source. Use a directive to specify location.
<sphalerite> gchristensen: can't you do exactly what it suggests, with an example file?
<sphalerite> or rather not an example file, since sourcing relative to cwd doesn't seem like a swap-out sourceable file
<gchristensen> sure, but the annoying thing is I want exactly what shellcheck wants too
<gchristensen> so I have to do 2x the work to handle a trivial, missing feature in the language
<LnL> I always use BASH_SOURCE for relative paths
<sphalerite> people competent in emacs wizardry: is there a "stock" way to check if point is in a URL and if so copy it to the kill ring?
<sphalerite> browse-url seems to have the basic functionality for that built in, but I don't see a function for just copying it rather than opening a browser on it
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<makefu> gchristensen: i have a lot of SC1090 exceptions in my work-related scripts
<makefu> it just says that it cannot check the sourced files
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<gchristensen> I know
<makefu> however, once you fixed all this you will never have any issues anymore with shellcheck /S
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<infinisil> Hehe wow, I made a change to Nix that made it *so* slow that I thought it was an infinite loop initially
<gchristensen> hah
<samueldr> the halting problem: only wrong explanations: it's when you don't know whether your code is stuck in a loop or not, so you don't know whether to halt it or not
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<sphalerite> samueldr: it's that infinite loops are so hard to break out of, so you have trouble getting your program to stop.
<samueldr> ah, the classical fork bomb is a halting problem?
<sphalerite> yes, an extreme case of it
<sphalerite> the so-called higher-order halting problem.
<sphalerite> or alternatively that your program gains so much speed that braking would overheat the processor.
<sphalerite> logicial inertia.
<sphalerite> (it took me a long time to understand that French "logiciel" is based on analogy to "matériel". Since knowing that, I've wished that English had the same sort of thing)
<samueldr> though the analogy of hard/soft for ware in english allows FIRMware to exist
<samueldr> for which we have "micrologiciel / microprogramme" as the best equivalent
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<abathur> gchristensen: resholve will resolve in the source statement, if that helps here?
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<abathur> if they're different packages, the sourced script just needs to get packaged and used as an input
<abathur> I'm not exercising the case anywhere, but I guess if they're the same package it won't do quite what you want atm. The command (and scripts attr in nix) accept multiple scripts to resolve together, but the scripts would need to already be in their output dir...
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<abathur> I'm also not certain what it would do with different relative paths on input there; I think it should keep up but I don't think I've ever tested it
<abathur> Need to ponder but I guess it makes sense to be able to give resholve an output/install path. I guess you could hack it for now by resholving them and then replacing the build path with $out?
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<samueldr> oh wow the new inkscape can rotate *the editing viewport*
<joepie91> neat
<joepie91> they've been adding a bunch of new rotate stuff lately
<joepie91> "rotate point selection" is also a relatively new feature
<samueldr> since you can duplicate the window, and it affects the editing viewport, you can keep a window around with the "normal way up"
<joepie91> samueldr: what's the magical invocation?
<samueldr> CTRL+middle-click drag
<samueldr> or the R: box at the bottom right
<samueldr> next to the Z: zoom
<joepie91> (you can duplicate the window...?)
<samueldr> yes
<samueldr> View -> Duplicate Window
<samueldr> there's also the icon view
<samueldr> icon preview*
<joepie91> wow.
<samueldr> those are *ooooold* features
<samueldr> on a normal modern app they'd been removed at least five updates ago since they're old
<joepie91> samueldr: well, I've learned various new things today, thanks :P
<samueldr> inkscape is quite amazing, but does thing so differently than other tools that it won't get converts (people) that easily
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<samueldr> this is amazing
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<gchristensen> omg
<abathur> o_o
<abathur> gchristensen: ? :)
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<drakonis> noice
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