gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
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<ashkitten> i don't like this
<ashkitten> that blog post makes me uncomfortable
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<abathur> ha
<abathur> <3 ashkitten
<{^_^}> ashkitten's karma got increased to 25
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<samueldr> super mario 35's not bad
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<abathur> I love how to-the-point the gif is
<samueldr> but that's terrible
<samueldr> because it limits _all_ interactions
<abathur> yes, it is, but I still love how clear the point is, without saying anything inflammatory
<samueldr> it doesn't solve any problem for big repos with frequent external contributions
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* gchristensen replies
<drakonis> i suppose we're unaffected so far?
<gchristensen> 28 hours in, yeah
<drakonis> wonderful
<drakonis> i'm not jazzed about the whole thing
<gchristensen> yeah.
<drakonis> its a very good way to pad your cv
<drakonis> despite it driving up low quality commits
<infinisil> If you're a fan of casually abusing the Nix evaluator, here's a fibonacci number implementation that does recursion using IFD: https://paste.infinisil.com/ziH5ttBYXw.nix
<gchristensen> I like it
<infinisil> I should make a repository collecting cursed Nix
<gchristensen> this is good code
<infinisil> YES
<infinisil> ackermann function next
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<colemickens> Is an AWS Spot instance the cheapest way to get a beefy aarch64 box? That or a Packet spot instance maybe.
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<ashkitten> infinisil: https://i.imgur.com/MgMuwSw.png
<ashkitten> i'm gonna go take a shower while this evaluates
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<ashkitten> infinisil: the 1000th fibonnaci is not 817770325994397771 >:c
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<srhb> This is a nice way to exercise your inodes xD
<ashkitten> always be sure to take your inodes out for walkies every day so they get enough exercise
<srhb> :3
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<samueldr> oh
<samueldr> I googled starmax, and saw it was either a satellige receiver, a telescope, or a griddle
<samueldr> neat, 90s mac clones are neat
<ashkitten> very
<ashkitten> i don't want to spoil things that are only tentatively happening but we are doing a Project
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<ashkitten> i'm extremely excited
<samueldr> porting macOS big sur to powerpc?
<ashkitten> heh, no
<ashkitten> something imo more interesting
<ashkitten> involving more than just the starmax
<samueldr> I guess morphOS is not really a thing on G3?
<samueldr> yeah, looks like it's G4/G5
<samueldr> got the windows 2003 leak compiling for PowerPC? ;)
<samueldr> (I'm definitely not trying to guess right btw)
<ashkitten> hehe
<ashkitten> as far as i know we don't have a copy of that
<sphalerite> "Macintosh clone license program" TIL
<ky0ko1> so... catalina powerpc port and windows nt powermac compat shim are projects i have actually researched doing
<ky0ko1> but this project isnt osdev related
<samueldr> I would have assumed one of the actually-ran on NT though
<samueldr> (rather than 2003)
<samueldr> oops actually-ran on PPC
<samueldr> not osdev?
<samueldr> surely that means it's now mining buttcoins!
<ky0ko1> nt4 did but only on specific ibm boxen that could do little endian at the bus
<ky0ko1> ive considered solving that with a light baremetal hypervisor and minimal impl of the ARC firmware
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<ashkitten> lol buttcoin... hmm if we wanted to waste resources they'd be better spent cracking the 0 hash
<sphalerite> hah, cracking.
<ldlework> Anyone here screwed around with Foundry VTT?
<ldlework> I'm pretty impressed with it.
<eyJhb> If anyone is interested :p Also, Danish
<eyJhb> ... People in front of the camera
<infinisil> ashkitten: You're right. I should implement bigint calculations in nix to fix that!
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<eyJhb> joepie91: https://github.com/mohitrakhade20/javascript-jokes for you maybe? You will either enjoy it or hate it :p
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<gchristensen> ooooh my bash script breaks Oil
<gchristensen> it may be time to change /bin/sh from dash to Oil
<etu> gchristensen: Hmm? What's the benefits of oil? Haven't heard of it.
<gchristensen> :o
<gchristensen> today is a good day!
<etu> I've been using fish for like 12/13 years though
<gchristensen> take a look at it
<gchristensen> the idea is to provide a graceful migration path from bash to something better
<Mic92> gchristensen: on what features do they break?
<Mic92> I can already 10 years down the line that we have a typed shell script dialect in nixpkgs.
<gchristensen> I'm working on minimizing it but it parses an argument being passed as arithmatic equality
<gchristensen> (and says it is a syntax error)
<__monty__> Mic92: *After* typed nix though : )
<Mic92> __monty__: right, but I hope that this one comes earlier
<gchristensen> okay so the failing program minimizes to: pass --x="". maybe I'm not running it in Bash compatibility mode.
<gchristensen> https://github.com/oilshell/oil/issues/735 and I can't read the thread because I have to register on zulip to read it
<{^_^}> oilshell/oil#735 (by andychu, 22 weeks ago, open): 'pass' name conflict
<__monty__> Could single letters be required to be short options?
<gchristensen> no, this is minimized
<__monty__> Ah
<gchristensen> the original line was `pass foobarg | head -n1 | vpnns --name="$identity" -- somecommand`
<__monty__> That's not a very convenient way to manage issues : /
<gchristensen> changing /bin/sh to osh seems to have broken firefox's ability to resolve DNS
<gchristensen> yeah
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<pie_> the image at the top of the OSM registration page is cute https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/new?referer=%2Fedit
<gchristensen> oh wow that is adorable
<pie_> thats a better word
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<pie_> wow the osm registration process feels pretty good
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<pie_> "If you just want something small fixed and don't have the time to sign up and learn how to edit, it's easy to add a note. " well i could have seen that earlier, oh well :P probably going to be doing more work than that anyway
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<abathur> gchristensen: did you find that via resholve, or were you using osh on its own?
<gchristensen> osh on its own
<gchristensen> I haven't tried resholve on it
<abathur> cool
<gchristensen> maybe you'd like to? :)
<abathur> if it's a parse error it'll presumably break in resholve since getting to the AST back with no errors is a pre-req :)
<abathur> I've wondered, as OSH/Oil come out the other side of this c++ effort, if it'd be interesting to swap it in as the build shell in Nix/Nixpkgs and see how it goes
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<abathur> __monty__: it is a little inconvenient sometimes, but he generally only does that when someone reports an issue to him on zulip and he wants to make sure it gets tracked on GH; it might be better if there was a summary, but I understand him not wanting to spend time doing more than link; might make for an interesting bot...
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<abathur> gchristensen: nod
<pie_> hm maybe i should hold an openstreetmap workshop in the dorm
<eyJhb> Any good way to track a file in Git history? Might have been removed, moved, etc.?
<Valodim> `git log -p`?
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<abathur> eyJhb: I have to search this every time I need it (and it's been a bit)... so I suspect I've only ever found arcane combinations of flags/commands; hope you find something more memorable this time? :)
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<eyJhb> `all: renaming files` :((( outside of Git
<eyJhb> Valodim: Thanks ! :)
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<srhb> eyJhb: Also --follow
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<__monty__> abathur: Doesn't zulip provide for any way for unregistered people to read messages?
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<abathur> gchristensen: got booze compiled; took a bit of fiddling but also eventually got the passthrough example script working (at least for simple read/write/list ops)
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<gchristensen> nice
<gchristensen> yikes :)
<abathur> __monty__: I thought it did, myself; not sure if I'm mis-remembering, or if it changed, or if that's a configurable
<abathur> WordExpansionFS here we come
<abathur> WordSplitting?
<abathur> that
<__monty__> I came across some "guest user" and "public room" stuff with a quick google but it wasn't clear to me whether this actually means public or just, available for accounts without an explicit invite to the room.
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<bqv> So I now have galliumos on my chromebook
<bqv> And I'm realising
<bqv> User mode nix is not very space efficient…
<bqv> I keep having "why don't I save space and install this with dpkg" moments
<__monty__> bqv: Otoh, nix kinda hands you the tools to get rid of all the redundancy, even multiple versions of shared libs.
<bqv> At the cost of either having at least one duplication set, or it not being galliumos at all anymore
<__monty__> Couldn't you symlink all the galliumos things into the nix store (in principle)?
<gchristensen> I wish I could `git add -ip` by pattern
<bqv> Probably, but that sounds insane :D
<gchristensen> ie: if the patch segment looks like -#!/bin/bash, +#!/usr/bin/env bash, add
<bqv> Realistically I should just mutate this into nixos, but then I lose some support
<__monty__> Hmm, my idea doesn't quite work either, if galliumos requires a shared library at two versions you'd need them both in the store to even be able to symlink.
<eyJhb> gchristensen: interactive patch?
<gchristensen> yeah but I'm adding thousands of exactly this diff
<eyJhb> What are you up to?
<eyJhb> And when will you start twitch streaming it?
<__monty__> I suspect he's replacing bash with osh in nixpkgs or something?
<gchristensen> using `sed` and `grep` to fix #!/bin/bash to #!/usr/bin/env bash
<gchristensen> nah, this is a client thing
<__monty__> Ah : (
<eyJhb> Aww :(
<eyJhb> We need a Tweag Twitch stream
<__monty__> I was thinking bash wouldn't be available at /bin anymore.
<eyJhb> So I can stop watching KitchenNightmares
<__monty__> gchristensen: Next best thing, work from a state without other changes, run the sed, add everything?
<gchristensen> heh
<gchristensen> aye
<srk> gchristensen: I have git sed alias .. sed = "! git grep -z --full-name -l '.' | xargs -0 sed -i -e"
<gchristensen> huh
<infinisil> What if we celebrated all our birthdays on one day
<infinisil> And we'll call it.. Birthdayday
<__monty__> I don't like it.
<__monty__> Reinforces the advantages for older kids.
<infinisil> __monty__: Which advantages?
<__monty__> Because of the periodicity of many things, often on somewhat year sized chunks, older kids have an advantage. In school they have the advantage of better motor skills and a more developed brain at the time of the tests. In sports they have the advantage of simply having more and more mature muscle.
<pie_> infinisil: didnt say moce peoples actual birth dates xd
<pie_> *move
<infinisil> Yeah I'm not sure what you mean __monty__
<__monty__> The studies I've seen on this looked at violin players and soccer players for example. The boys that were older at the times of try-outs and exams performed a little better, which coaches/teachers notice so they get more attention, this causes a cumulative effect.
<infinisil> I'm just saying that we celebrate birthdays on one date, as a general day to celebrate aliveness
<pie_> stop giving the business lobbyists ideas
<__monty__> It's very obvious in elementary school. The younger kids in classes are categorised as being "nth year's" just like the older kids in the classes.
<gchristensen> __monty__: that is really cool to know
<__monty__> And your one birthday a year thing would do the same, pretend people born almost a year apart are "the same age."
<__monty__> gchristensen: Yeah, interesting though unfortunate. Anecdotally I indeed had it real easy in school, kinda felt like I had a year stolen from me because everything was too easy. In a niece I see the reverse, she's the youngest in her classes and she often trails in performance.
<__monty__> Age isn't the only thing that makes a difference of course. Your environment can make a huge difference too.
<eyJhb> There are something about this regarding sports as well
<eyJhb> According to at what time of the year you are born, something something
<bqv> so what if we quantized age at a smaller scale, so it no longer made a significant enough difference
<__monty__> eyJhb: Yeah, I mentioned the soccer players.
<bqv> hypothetically of course. no way any country would have the balls to do something like that
<eyJhb> __monty__: I was thinking basketball
<__monty__> And indeed, if you look at top soccer players their birthdates kinda cluster around a specific time of the year, I think it was like february/march.
<eyJhb> Also, there was a lot of text
<eyJhb> Yeah, about that time
<sphalerite> bqv: idk, this could be done on a school level, at least for schools that are big enough that they have multiple classes in a single year.
<eyJhb> /april
<eyJhb> What is the win of clustering them?
<sphalerite> though I guess the classes will still be compared to each other
<bqv> sphalerite: that would likely violate educational laws in almost every jurisdiction
<bqv> because of curricula
<__monty__> Ideally every kid would have personalized education based on performance in each subject of course.
<__monty__> Which makes it hard on two dimensions.
<bqv> it's an optimization problem :D
<__monty__> (Because you can be good at math and bad at french, for example.)
<bqv> and a clustering problem, i suppose
<__monty__> Note that I'm basing this on a psychometrics course from a couple years ago. I haven't kept up with research in that area.
<bqv> that still makes your armchair far bigger than ours
<__monty__> As an aside, I have to say I'm really glad I elected for courses as far removed from my major as possible while still getting credits. I can recommend it highly.
<bqv> i liked the idea of electives, but in practice the education system broke me so now i tend to just appropriate information by osmosis and fly by the seat of my pants
<bqv> if it got me to uni, it can get me further
<__monty__> Oh, I did attend a ton of lectures I couldn't get/spare credits for too : )
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<pie_> lol im stealing this phrase <bqv> that still makes your armchair far bigger than ours
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<sphalerite> bqv: I was thinking to just form the classes based on ages, but not to change the year cycle. But then I realised that doesn't help the problem, since the classes will still be compared to each other.
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<bqv> yeah
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<__monty__> Yeah, you certainly want to avoid the "That's the dumb kids class," kind of situation.
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<__monty__> Also, it'd only work if standardized tests are equally shifted to be available throughout the year, otherwise you'll still end up with over-/undertrained students taking the same test.
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<eyJhb> Sooo..... Chromium have started to use 100% of my CPU, without anything actually running. Are JS Crypto miners till a big thing?
<eyJhb> Digitalocean uses 100% CPU pr. tab, I guess
<MichaelRaskin> DO again? Mmm
<MichaelRaskin> (referring to their spamfest event having already made them deserve some hate)
<drakonis> yesssss
<eyJhb> MichaelRaskin: it is annoying
<eyJhb> I should make another "provider" implementation, so I do not only rely on them :p
<eyJhb> Also, DO has a so unstable API
<eyJhb> Reminds me, I should check on Shitoberfest. That twitter has some gold. But hell it is annoying...
<MichaelRaskin> Should we make like five accounts, create five repos in each and try to make them the spam magnets?
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<eyJhb> https://twitter.com/joelnet/status/1311773094856454144 did anyone link this yet? Or did I maybe?
<eyJhb> MichaelRaskin: "open-pr-here"?
<MichaelRaskin> Yep
<ldlework> drakonis: you played Escape Velocity?
<drakonis> ldlework: i've played games similar to it
<ldlework> drakonis: ah Kaerakh and I played the shit out of it as kids
<ldlework> drakonis: there's a respectable remake
<ldlework> I enjoyed it
<drakonis> i'm fairly certain that's available as a package here
<ldlework> endless sky?
<drakonis> yes
<__monty__> ,locate endlesssky
<ldlework> holy shit you're right
<{^_^}> Couldn't find in any packages
<ldlework> that is cool
<drakonis> am i?
<drakonis> it is
<drakonis> ,locate endless-sky
<{^_^}> Found in packages: endless-sky
<__monty__> Right, I think I've tried it out.
<bqv> ok, the fact that my nix configuration is getting so many stars is starting to get uncomfortable
<bqv> i mean it was always weird but what am i meant to do with a github repo that has tonnes of stars but is literally unusable by anyone who isn't me
<bqv> oh wow, there are ones around with way more than mine
<bqv> ok, nevermind, i'll just ignore it
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<infinisil> bqv: Hehe yeah mine has a bunch too, I just take it as a "this helped me for my own config"
<bqv> that's what i was thinking but then i realised it's hit 20 and that's an order of magnitude more than i've got for anything else, it's weird
<rummik> Huh, I'm surprised mine is 10th on the nixos-configuration topic on GH
<energizer> i want to use a service like Dropbox but I have 5TB which makes dropbox too expensive. Mega is encrypted and cheap up to 13TB, which would be perfect - only worrisome thing is their chrome extension got pwned in 2018 which makes me worried about their security. https://bpa.st/OK7Q I don't see any good options. Am I missing anything?
<gchristensen> link?
<gchristensen> rummik: ^
<rummik> Or my nixos config?
<rummik> It's sorted by stars
<bqv> oh
<bqv> it's cause of the tag
<bqv> that makes sense
<rummik> Huh. I kinda want to look over this one at some point https://github.com/LEXUGE/nixos
<jtojnar> the topics are weird
<jtojnar> oh, looks like it is there because the bigram is used twice in the readme
<infinisil> Damn, why am I on top! I feel like mine is the messiest!
<hexa-> bqv: starred it because of the nft module
* infinisil hides
<rummik> Mine's also a mess. It's just been there a while, and has some Nix-Darwin in it
<bqv> hexa-: oh, yeah, that was pretty fun. fair enough
<hexa-> was it? :P
<bqv> genuinely yeah!
<samueldr> mine's only got 9 stars, but it's on gitlab
<infinisil> This PR to my config confuses me: https://github.com/Infinisil/system/pull/3
<{^_^}> Infinisil/system#3 (by blaggacao, 1 day ago, open): Avoid deceptive scope mismatch?
<rummik> I think the only thing I consider really neat about mine is the fenced syntax highlighting bits
<samueldr> rummik: how'd that work?
<samueldr> I was thinking that it would be neat having something like that
<rummik> Modified the vim syntax to check for a leading comment on multiline strings
<samueldr> yeah, though is it part of your configs?
<rummik> I have a modified fork of `vim-nix` that gets pulled in by my configs
<bqv> rummik: i basically do that with emacs file-local variables
<bqv> and ensure i don't have more than one "non-nix syntax" per file
<bqv> e.g. almost all emacs lisp is quarantined to ./emacs
<bqv> the rest is explicitly tagged
<rummik> There's a PR open for it, but since it's not a community standard it hasn't been pulled in yet
<bqv> then i have shell files explicitly tagged, and i think there's one file with something else inline somewhere
<rummik> I try to keep it to one syntax per file, I just found it more convenient to be able to have more than one syntax loaded
<rummik> Well, one additional syntax
<bqv> i mean it's an artificial constriction i've put on myself. emacs's poly-mode can handle arbitrary mixtures of many syntaces, but the more are loaded the messier things get, and there's no real need for more than "nix and <X>"
<bqv> sorry, syntages
<bqv> wait.. anyone here speak classical?
<bqv> i'm not sure on that one
<rummik> I'm honestly not sure what that is 😅
<bqv> just being a linguistics nerd, excuse me
<rummik> Fair enough
<rummik> Either way, it would be nice to see a fenced syntax standard, since it's pretty common to see code in multiline strings
<bqv> my logic was, any fencing standard would by nature require fencing every string in the file. that's not comfortable or ergonomic. therefore, forcing it to per-file means you can just fence on a file-by-file basis, which is still not ideal but far less intrusive than having to change your comment indicators
<rummik> Makes sense
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<eyJhb> rummik: SO you have thing that makes writing nix expressions in Vim easier/possible. But it is not in NixPkgs? :p
<rummik> Hm?
<rummik> eyJhb: I'm not sure what you mean?
<gchristensen> he's jealous :)
<rummik> Oh
<gchristensen> (me too)
<rummik> I should probably move some of that into NUR
<samueldr> though the PR's been there, all that time, for us to just use it :)
<samueldr> funnily enough what I had in mind was basically the same
<samueldr> (but had no idea where to start to begin implementing it)
<rummik> samueldr: I imagine there aren't many ways to do this without it being terribly kludgy, so I'm not surprised :P
<samueldr> though I also never had to _implement_ anything with vim, i always ended up being fine with whatever existed :)
<rummik> eyJhb: Oh, right xD
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<eyJhb> :D
<colemickens> OMG I got a spam PR!
<eyJhb> Also, people who use laptops + docking stations or whatever, do you turn off your computer at night? OR just turn off the displays?
<eyJhb> colemickens:!!! Link!
<colemickens> I feel so special.
<{^_^}> colemickens/nixpkgs-wayland#230 (by 3ap, 5 hours ago, open): README.md: fix typo and links
<gchristensen> I close and "light sleep" the laptop
<ashkitten> colemickens: can you accept spam prs but also mark them as invalid for hacktoberfest?
<bqv> dunno about spam
<bqv> but definitely poorly thought out, implemented, and considered
<colemickens> not sure. To be fair, most of the changes are indeed correct fixes, and someone must've really sat there and clicked all the links to check if they were valid. I certainly wasn't ever going to do that work.
<ashkitten> yeah that was my point
<bqv> eyJhb: i have a desktop, as well as pc, so i just never turn off the pc but the laptop can do what it wants. and i'm still working out how i'm going to deal with the implications of that for nix deployments
<ashkitten> it's just that those changes arent really... super helpful, yk
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<bqv> i mean that's from your perspective, and i agree, but at the same time that doesn't make it spam
<bqv> just incredibly dumb
<ashkitten> sure
<ashkitten> i'll concede :p
<bqv> phew, cause i just realised i was getting myself into yet another argument i didn't want to have
<bqv> thank you :p
<ashkitten> i don't disagree with you
<samueldr> if it needed categorizing, it'd be something like "churn" work
<ashkitten> (which i don't think should be valid for hacktoberfest, but i don't make their rules)
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<rummik> eyJhb: I usually just put mine to sleep if it's not on the dock, otherwise it runs all night
<rummik> And by "sleep" I mean close the lid ^^;
<eyJhb> Yeah, same. JUst going to bed now, so I wondered if I was normal for just turning off the displays :p
<eyJhb> Because, I don't really trust DisplayLink will work on a resume.. And much in general I don't think my laptop handles sleep that well.... :|
<rummik> I think my displays shut off after 5 minutes or something
<eyJhb> It lives a hard laptop life with me
<eyJhb> Usually do `xset dpms force off`
<ashkitten> really appreciate the --keep-going arg
<ashkitten> makes fixing the failed stuff much easier cuz you can do it after everything else
<ashkitten> so, what is the state of nixos on power9?
<Ashy> ashkitten: i'm also interested in that
<Ashy> plannnig on getting a raptor blackbird in the next month or two
<ashkitten> we might be getting a talos 2
<Ashy> nice
<drakonis> nice
<Ashy> ashkitten: i remember reading somewhere (possibly on discourse) someone asking about power9 hydra cache and i think being told there would need to be a power9 build machine donated
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<JJJollyjim> I wish non-x86 machines were more affordable
<JJJollyjim> I wanna play with power9 and arm and riscv and etc
<samueldr> ARM kind of has a weird problem: affordable junk, or overpriced workstations :(
<JJJollyjim> yeah:(
<ashkitten> agreed
<ashkitten> this one kinda fell into our hands
<ashkitten> we would not have been able to buy it
<samueldr> (junk may be harsh, they're acceptable for what they are meant to be used for... but not as a workstation)
<JJJollyjim> Yeah, they're sub-current smartphones
<JJJollyjim> Oof there's a big price gap from x86 to talos huh
<JJJollyjim> us$3400 for a motherboard + 1 quadcore chip
<Ashy> the blackbird is their "affordable" option
<Ashy> but yeah, they don't have the benefit of manufacturing scale
<JJJollyjim> yeah
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<Ashy> i love the idea of it being foss all the way down to the board firmware though
<Ashy> really cool
<JJJollyjim> yeah
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