gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
<colemickens> It turns out, go modules have an override system but it seems it doesn't play nice with our nix packaging.
<colemickens> Makes it kind of hard to do my usual: fork everything and chain it all together with nixy overrides :(
<colemickens> It kind of seems like the only option remaining is to full-on fork the Go dep (including renaming all of the internal package paths too) which is a lot of hassle/moving pieces
<colemickens> actually this could be a stale vendorSha256.
* colemickens the narrator: it was
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<lovesegfault> Any of y'all have sway working with three monitors
<lovesegfault> it disables one of my 4K ones
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<pie_> jtojnar: totally randomly ran across this https://github.com/webcomics/pywine, idk if its good for anything but
<pie_> "This dockerfile does some umask trickery to create a wineprefix usable by any user. "
<pie_> dunno if that means patching wine could be avoided, but i didnt think about it much
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<colemickens> oh right, I forgot, Azure doesn't advertise DNS over DHCP properly.
<colemickens> so even that has to ... lovingly be accounted for.
<gchristensen> lol.
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<lovesegfault> 134022 store paths deleted, 124403.01 MiB freed
<lovesegfault> I guess it was about time :P
<colemickens> udhcpc doesn't know what to do with it, but I guess they patched... dhclient? resolvconf? because by time regular nixos boots it writes out a working /etc/resolv.conf.
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<colemickens> how are all of these online shopping carts so bad? Do they just not track user funneling and abandonment?
<colemickens> This one resets the cart on page reload.
<colemickens> The last one I used had different state for each tab that overwrote its shared cart state, so the last one always one and would wipe out an existing cart.
<colemickens> At least this restaurant I can just call.
<colemickens> It's freaking Wix Restaurants too. How can Wix be so bad at something so basic?
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<Arahael> WiX isnt exactly a premium service. this is what happens with a race to the bottom. eventually, you hit bottom.
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<bqv> Gosh, I forgot wikis are basically race condition simulators
<joepie91> colemickens: Wix has basically been awful since its inception. it used to generate Flash monstrosities. then when Flash got killed off, they converted to "HTML5", which inexplicably managed to produce 30 MB of HTML, CSS and JS for even the most basic site, with a 10+ second load time
<joepie91> it has been burned into my mind as the worst website builder that has ever existed, from a technical perspective, and that is an impressive spot to take
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<jtojnar> ugh, looks like the Firefox freezing issues I have been experiencing are caused by NoScript
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<jtojnar> even when I disable restrictions globally and turn off XSS checks
<srk> freezing how? my is "only" badly responsive recently
<srk> load times of some pages are way too high, can't even switch tabs while they are loading
<jtojnar> when I open some modern website (youtube/new reddit), the browser ui becomes unresponsive
<jtojnar> for maybe a minute
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<Cute^LaiL> hi
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<Valodim> soo we got flake blog posts on 25.05. and 25.06.
<Valodim> *looks at calendar excitedly
<bqv> lol
<bqv> can't wait for december
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<eyJhb> Ahh, the sweet sweet joy of someone having a party downstairs :(
<Church-> eyJhb: Yeah that's next door for me
<Church-> Might call the cops for once if they got past 11pm/midnight again
<eyJhb> The rule is here, if it is the weekend and you are warned, it can go on till 1AM
<eyJhb> And I didn't bring my laptop, so couldn't really stay in the city I was just in, even if I had a place to stay..
<Church-> Yeah they don't warn us
<Church-> Just do it every weekend
<Church-> Till like 2am~
<eyJhb> At least it is weekends, another neighbour of mine starts at 00:00, blasting music on normal work days. And gets confused about why it is annoying
<eyJhb> I feel your pain
<Church-> Eyep
<eyJhb> Worst part is the base, and nothing else
<eyJhb> Considering just going out shopping and making a nice meal
<joepie91> I don't understand why it's so difficult for noisy people to just talk to neighbours and work with them to figure out an acceptable noise level / distribution
<joepie91> like, it's literally the first thing I did when I moved here, said hi to the neighbours and told them "btw if you have any issues with my music please let me know"
<joepie91> (turns out that it doesn't really carry, so that's good)
<eyJhb> joepie91: some people suck
<eyJhb> Basically
<MichaelRaskin> Back when I worked in France I had an interest in an even more ridiculous question…
<MichaelRaskin> There were parties? concerts? discos? on a city square nearby
<eyJhb> This girl that do not know the time or date of the week, started complaining to my neighbour when she complaiend, that when she walked in her apartment it could be heard, therefore music was OK I guess
<MichaelRaskin> Typically Friday evenings
<MichaelRaskin> My question was: did the person managing the sound (probably professionally) sincerely believe that a) if the floor does not shake, you are not doing you sound engineering job right, and b) that the floor is literally a stone pavement is not an excuse.
<eyJhb> MichaelRaskin: MAKE THAT STONE SHAKE GOD DAMN IT :p
<MichaelRaskin> They might have succeeded at some points even!
<MichaelRaskin> Fortunately for my comfort I do not care much about noise, but I definitely was wondering.
<eyJhb> I like my bass to the point, where it is unhealthy, but that is MY bass, not someone else base... I hate other peoples base, but I don't really listen to non-headset music where I live anyways
<eyJhb> MichaelRaskin: noise is something, feeling the shaking sucks
<MichaelRaskin> Well, I extrapolate the sound level to what should have beein in the center of the disaster area
<MichaelRaskin> Shaking I actually get here in a quiet place in Germany — from a washing machine. It manages to shake quite a chunk of the (non-ground) floor, including approximately the entirety of the studio I rent.
<__monty__> Our neighbors got ticketed for parking on a street corner. They figured we must've called the cops or something. Proceeded to play excessively loud music in the apartment above us for literal months. Always stopping at a couple mins past 22h. When asked why all they said was "I like listening to music. I'm allowed to listen to music."
<eyJhb> __monty__: that is where if they don't listen you can play petty. My friend has a mobile DJ setup, with speakers bigger than me :D
<eyJhb> MichaelRaskin: give them some rubber to place that on, and not the british kind...
<MichaelRaskin> You see, it is already on the rubber
<MichaelRaskin> I am one of the people using the washing machine, so I could try to find out if it is possible to solve it with a different set of rubber if I cared enough…
<__monty__> We don't have any speakers really. And we wouldn't be rude to the other neighbors. They're clearly childish enough to always be able to trump whatever we would do. Among other things they dropped organic waste and poured milk on our doormat.
<Church-> I've considered a sonic loudspeaker to deal with the neighbors.
<Church-> But that'd be Illegal...
<ashkitten> for good reason
<ashkitten> have you talked to them?
<eyJhb> MichaelRaskin: I had some rubber mats, I used to place all around my fridge, both on and the sides
<eyJhb> Maybe that would help?
<MichaelRaskin> Fridge and washing machine in cetrifugal mode are a bit different categories…
<eyJhb> I know, but either way it should help something at least. But there are better materials of course, this was just cheap
<MichaelRaskin> As the washing machine is closest to my place, I assume the others get significantly less Well, at some point you hit the question of how much power exactly goes into the movement. And in this case it is a lot!
<eyJhb> MichaelRaskin: set a timer on it!
<eyJhb> :D
<eyJhb> No more washing after 22
<MichaelRaskin> When my girlfriend was visiting (we are PostDocs, currently working in universities in different countries), she asked if I tried to negotiate something like that and I said that with my days in the washing-machine-use being weekdays (and my commute taking quite some time) I am not sure I prefer such an agreement to the status quo.
<eyJhb> Wait wait wait
<eyJhb> Where is she and what studies MichaelRaskin ?
<MichaelRaskin> She is a pure mathematician, I am a mostly-theoretical computer scientist (with quite a bit of pure mathematics background)
<MichaelRaskin> My practical experience includes writing some measurement automation code, and deciding that sleeping in a room with three kinds of stabilised power supplies whining (and two computers turning their fans) is less annoying than powering everything in the correct order every day
<MichaelRaskin> There was also a moment when the main ofBorg x86_64 builder was a Gigabyte Brix i7-4770R literally in 3 meters from my pillow
<MichaelRaskin> (yes, a small case and a powerful CPU have exactly the implications one would expect)
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<MichaelRaskin> Actually, me annoyed by a loud music of a party does happen sometimes. It is when it is a university party and I am trying to have a conversation with a random colleague with whom we don't normally intersect much…
<MichaelRaskin> Like that time in Aarhus when people wishing to chat flocked to the furthest point from the stage… and then it turned out that the plan includes playing music loudly in _two_ places.
<__monty__> Yes, baffling. Most of the parties I've been to had two things in common, 1) people were spending a lot more time trying to have a conversation than dancing, 2) music was way too loud to have a conversation without screaming.
<ashkitten> hmmm parties seem bad
<MichaelRaskin> To be fair, at all university parties in Aarhus there were many people dancing
<__monty__> Did they spend a majority of the time dancing is the question though. Imo if conversation is prioritized over dancing, maybe the music should be turned down a bit.
<__monty__> Or restricted to a separate room or part of the room?
* ashkitten has sensory issues so just hides in the corner at parties
<MichaelRaskin> I would start with «at no point in the venue the sound level should qualify as a health hazard»
<ashkitten> MichaelRaskin++
<{^_^}> MichaelRaskin's karma got increased to 0x28
<MichaelRaskin> Space layout in terms of parts of the rooms and acoustics gets complicated quickly; but nice people have worked hard to define what level of workplace noise are a health hazard and maybe we should use their efforts.
<ar> hm. i have a weird issue. /nix/store/66lvb19j4ag603363qd0lhp8vvia5mqg-update-users-groups.pl script that gets ran on nixos-rebuild switch, or on boots ends up running in - apparently - infinite loop until it runs out of memory.
<MichaelRaskin> How many configurations do you have?
<ar> configurations?
<MichaelRaskin> I mean, previous system generations built and not yet garbage collected
<ar> hm
<MichaelRaskin> A positive mention goes to LaBRI (CS at University of Bordeaux), which has lab-wide parties, with food and drinks, and no electrically amplified music. At some of these parties a guitar happens in some corner of the lawn.
<__monty__> Our CS department had cocktail parties too. The louder parties were usually in bars.
<MichaelRaskin> I am not sure how, but LaBRI maintains the tradition of not having any loud ones
<ar> nix-collect-garbage… 54885 store paths deleted, 64996.33 MiB freed
<eyJhb> Normally, the place to talk is in the smoking area MichaelRaskin
<ar> but that script still runs in an infinite loop
<MichaelRaskin> I think that party in Aarhus with surprise-second-sound-source managed to cover even the smoking area with music
<samueldr> ar: wrong channel for help :)
<eyJhb> There is some, but eaiser to yell through
<samueldr> (just explaining again that the main reason not to use -chat for on-topic discussion is that many contributors and users simply are not present here)
<pie_> MichaelRaskin: got my MVP working, now im fighting with qtile and refactoring to make it a bit less garbage. this is way too much effort for this isnt it. https://github.com/deliciouslytyped/mindscar/blob/master/scanflow-screenshot.png
<MichaelRaskin> Heh
<gchristensen> I'm supposed to get a freezer delivered today after like 3 months on the waiting list :')
<eyJhb> pie_: what you up to?
<MichaelRaskin> Scanning workflow
<eyJhb> gchristensen: I thought we agreed to send it from Denmark?
<eyJhb> OHH! I see
<eyJhb> Does this seem like a bad thing to do, to update all git repos in a folder? `find . -maxdepth 2 -name '.git' -exec sh -c 'cd $(dirname {}) && git pull' \;`
<samueldr> eyJhb: if they're submodules, submodule foreach
<samueldr> but as submodules are cursed, I hope they're not
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<eyJhb> They are not, it is just for nixos
<eyJhb> home-manager, hardware and nixpkgs :p I wanted to do upstream fetch easily and merge in
<cole-h> eyJhb: Why not `git -C $(dirname {}) pull`?
<eyJhb> cole-h: look at you, with your smarts :p
<eyJhb> Did not know that was a option :E
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<eyJhb> Ohh god
<eyJhb> Something broke vgo2nix
<eyJhb> tags formatted as `autorest/azure/auth/v0.5.0`
<__monty__> MichaelRaskin: The loud parties weren't organized by faculties. I was talking about parties in general (the ones I attend) more than academically organized parties.
<MichaelRaskin> I don't care and (below health hazard levels) can have some understanding of the normal ones! the sad part that a good university can try to organise a party and do it so stupidly (for the context)
<__monty__> I don't mind loud parties, just wouldn't go to them. But the parties I do attend have more (attempted) conversation than dancing and yet the music's clearly dialed in for the latter.
<eyJhb> adisbladis: ping me
<MichaelRaskin> I guess in addition to clearly net-negative professions there are now also professions that can become net-negative by overdoing. Sound engineering is clearly a one…
<cole-h> eyJhb: I'm not ad*sbladis, but here's your ping
<joepie91> I kinda liked the atmosphere at night at the last Congress, there was definitely the loud music, but also the space was big enough that if you plopped down at the other end of the hall, it was more a "background party"
<eyJhb> Then you want to play with vgo2nix? :P
<eyJhb> Go go cole-h :D
<cole-h> Ew, golang
<eyJhb> Ohh, excuse me, what did you say cole-h ?! :(
<cole-h> I said, I dislike golang's syntax to the point where I'd rather not write code in it :)
<cole-h> Or look at it, if I have the choice
<__monty__> cole-h: Are you spoiled by ML-style syntax too?
<cole-h> Whatever the style of Rust is, is the syntax I prefer :P
<cole-h> I can settle for C-like as well
<eyJhb> I hate rust syntax :p
<__monty__> Isn't Go syntax pretty C/Java-like?
<__monty__> Rust has some ML influences I think but there's much nicer syntax out there imo.
<cole-h> It doesn't look C-like enough for me to be able to grok code without any underlying experience.
<cole-h> Maybe for simpler functions, but when you have something like `func FetchEntityPartReader(e *message.Entity, index []int) (io.Reader, error) {`, it quickly becomes hard to read (for me)
<eyJhb> Which part is hard to read?
<__monty__> Rust doesn't score particularly well on that metric either though.
<cole-h> Skimming it, it's not obvious to me that (io.Reader, error) is the return type. `fn fetchEntityPartReader(e: Entity, index: &[i64]) -> Result<Reader, Error>` is more obvious that it'll return a Reader or an error.
<cole-h> Does (io.Reader, error) mean it returns a tuple consisting of a reader and an error? Or is it like a Result<>, where only one is returned?
<cole-h> Maybe this is just my fundamental lack of knowledge in Go, but I find it much less readable compared to Rust
<eyJhb> cole-h: returns both, as r, err := funccall()
<eyJhb> I would say lack in knowledge yes, because it is basically... Everything after your funcName + optional args, are returned
<eyJhb> ANd you can't really return them as a tuple, or list, slice, whatever without getting ugly
<eyJhb> [2]interface{} I guess
<__monty__> Too bad Rust didn't go with Entity -> &[i64] -> Result<Reader, Error> : >
<eyJhb> I.. I hate that syntax sooo much :p
<cole-h> I really dislike the separation (or total lack thereof) of the return type in Go
<eyJhb> All the Fing arrows and stuff
<eyJhb> Lack af return type?
<cole-h> separation
<cole-h> of the return type
<eyJhb> What, that is literally what it is?
<eyJhb> Seperation?
<cole-h> `func FetchEntityPartReader(e *message.Entity, index []int) (io.Reader, error) {` vs `fn fetchEntityPartReader(e: Entity, index: &[i64]) -> Result<Reader, Error> {`
<cole-h> I know the Rust function will return a `Result<Reader, Error>` just by looking at the right of the arrow.
<eyJhb> I know that Go will return a io.Reader and a error
<eyJhb> Those are the types
<cole-h> But I have to read closer (because sometimes I miss parens) Go's return type, to see if it's actually a return type or not
<__monty__> eyJhb: Arrows aren't that different from commas and parens? And single-argument functions are the best.
<cole-h> It's not conducive to skimming (at least for me)
<eyJhb> But, that is not missing seperation, more like, not seeing
<eyJhb> I normally look for the {, and read before it
<cole-h> Maybe I'm in the minority for this, but that is my largest problem with Go, and why I hate reading it. I, personally, cannot skim it and acquire all (or most) necessary information as I can with Rust, or even C/C++.
<eyJhb> I really do not see that, the inability to find the return arguments seem weird. As the direct return types are directly there, you know that it will ALWAYS return this, nothing maybe this or this
<cole-h> I know the return types are there, but since the only separation is a single space, I can (and have) misread the `) (` sequence. In the end, it just looks plain weird to me.
<eyJhb> But they are not missing, and are there quite strongly represented. You need a better () font :p
<eyJhb> 2x as big
<cole-h> I disagree that a single space is "quite strongly represented", when compared to something like `-> Val`, but I guess that's just me.
<eyJhb> func name(str string) LOOK HERE ----> (string, error)
<eyJhb> ^ Solution :p
<__monty__> eyJhb: What about a long list of arguments and a long list of return types? If both are across multiple lines it could get harder to see where one ends and the other begins.
<eyJhb> __monty__: now you are getting more into things that are not Go like anymore, because it is something that is meant to not exists, as you should but that into a struct
<__monty__> eyJhb: That's not far from "Code in language X is always good if you write it properly."
<__monty__> And why not use a struct for the tuple? Or the pair of arguments.
<eyJhb> __monty__: not saying that, but guarding against something you are meant not to do seems useless. Go is a language of heavy conventions, if you do not follow them, then you WILL have a bad time
<eyJhb> Which of them, the return argument?
<eyJhb> You could, but as in Go, every function that can return a error, should do so as the last return, and therefor you would have struct { out string } basically
<eyJhb> And I do admit, you will have a bad time
<eyJhb> REally :p
<__monty__> eyJhb: Heh, the language isn't supposed to limit what you can do certainly doesn't sound like Go's motto.
<eyJhb> Not limited, but having these conventions are put in place to reduce the amout of work, goes into maintain the project. If you have a function which takes 10 arguments, and you want to add another one. Then normally you have to change each place you call it, but if you use a struct, you can just add the field, put in the functionality and the rest will still work
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<__monty__> Seems like a reason to never not use a struct as input argument.
<eyJhb> You could
<eyJhb> You could also do a struct { map[string]interface{} } and never care for types, ever again!
<eyJhb> :P
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<__monty__> Types are great. All I'm saying is "Well don't do that then." isn't a particularly strong argument. (...) (...) is less visually distinguished than (...) -> Type. It doesn't make Go a bad language and it's not something you need to deny imo.
<eyJhb> I would more say it is opinion, I think '->' makes it harder/more annoying to read
<eyJhb> Because you have a ton of < > in general
<__monty__> I don't understand the map[string]interface{} notation though, why is there such a lack of spaces?
<eyJhb> Because it is a single type
<eyJhb> Basically a dict that can only contain keys that are strings, that maps to a empty interface, And everything forfill being a empty interface
<eyJhb> So it is basically, any type you can put into the map, with the key string
<eyJhb> You can hate yourself and do map[interface{}]interface{}
<__monty__> So in haskell it'd be `Map String Object`?
<eyJhb> I guess, I don't do HS
<eyJhb> map[type]type
<infinisil> __monty__: Seriously, ML-style types are so much clearer
<__monty__> infinisil: Well, haskell, MLs usually have the order inverted. `[a]` -> `'a list`
<infinisil> Oh, I just assumed ML-style = Haskell style
<infinisil> But yes, I like Haskell types a lot
<__monty__> Close enough : )
<__monty__> infinisil: Can {^_^}'s karma service please learn to recognize sarcastic "damn it nick" as karma triggers? I'm never gonna get up there with the hotshots otherwise ; )
<infinisil> Hehe
<infinisil> I wouldn't be opposed to a PR for that (it's just another regex case) :P
<__monty__> (Was just joking, ofc.)
<infinisil> (I wasn't lol)
<eyJhb> damn it infinisil and __monty__
<eyJhb> Get going
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<eyJhb> My cat is looking at me, like she will kill me in my sleep. I swear she has food and water
<joepie91> lol
<joepie91> have you paid the mandatory lap tax?
<joepie91> and/or get-the-fuck-off-my-sleeping-place tax
<joepie91> depending on the model of cat
<eyJhb> She is not a fan of lap tax, unless she is allowed to chew at the cables for my headphones... And she has the entire bed for herself atm.
<eyJhb> She is just, silently judging
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<samueldr> eyJhb: she's seeing right through you
<eyJhb> She finally stopped, and is just relaxing where her human mom used to sleep
<eyJhb> joepie91: considering trying Matrix
<eyJhb> But I would like having my own homeserver for it
<adisbladis> I've never even played minecraft, but this is amazing
<eyJhb> HE IS ALIVE!
<adisbladis> Me?
<eyJhb> Yes :p
<adisbladis> Afaik I was never dead
<eyJhb> Need more evidence that support that claim
<eyJhb> s/support/supports/
<joepie91> eyJhb: come over to the dark side :P
<eyJhb> But.. Should I configure a homeserver first, or.. Just use matrix.org to start?
* joepie91 is actually working on some Matrix libs atm...
<joepie91> eyJhb: if you want to run your own homeserver, I'd recommend just setting it up right away
<joepie91> identities are not yet portable
<joepie91> so migrating from one to another is a bit annoying
<joepie91> (work in progress)
<joepie91> be aware that Synapse is not zero-maintenance though, especially if you intend to join larger channels (bridged or otherwise)
<eyJhb> How now zero-maintaince?
<joepie91> it occasionally requires manual attention to recover from bugs and such (ask f0x for the details), and the resource usage profile is... not great, atm
<joepie91> it's not a full-time job to keep running either, but don't expect it to be fire-and-forget or you will be disappointed basically :P
<eyJhb> Might have to then
<eyJhb> I am just so much in doubt, of where to set up the server
<eyJhb> I want another VPS!
<joepie91> pick one with plenty of RAM and ideally SSD storage :P
<joepie91> eyJhb: buy ALL the VPSes!
<eyJhb> How much does it eat?!
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<eyJhb> I should start having a single VPS for things... But I could host it at home as well
<joepie91> it will be unhappy about less than 2GB, if you use it semi-intensively
<samueldr> joepie91: is that an ever-increasing amount of memory that is required, or is it something that ends up relatively stable?
<joepie91> samueldr: roughly scales with the accumulative size (in members) of all the joined rooms
<samueldr> like, is it related to the amount of messages in the history of the home server or is it relatively stable with the same usage over time?
<joepie91> history size doesn't affect it afaik
<samueldr> right, so if from my home server I join a freenode chat with 900 person that affects it more than if I join a chat with 9 person?
<joepie91> yeah
<samueldr> I wasn't sure from previous excursions about the topic *what* criteria was affecting memory use
<samueldr> good to know it's not history
<eyJhb> I should go to bed
<eyJhb> I am doing nothing productive atm.
<joepie91> my info is second-hand as I don't run my own HS, but I fairly regularly complain to f0x about server slowdowns and get statistics in return, so the above should be fairly accurate :P
<samueldr> when you spot a nixos user on an unrelated project lol
<eyJhb> We need f0x in here!
<eyJhb> :D
<joepie91> they are
<eyJhb> How does it handle multiple clients being connected using the same account regarding playback?
<samueldr> isn't there no "playback"? I thought it was like a big linked list of messages
<joepie91> eyJhb: "playback" is not a thing, it's not a bouncer :P Matrix is designed as an eventually-consistent database that you sync up with
<joepie91> so "multiple clients" is exactly the same as "one client" because they all just talk to the same database basically
<samueldr> IIRC that was like the big selling point of the protocol initially
<samueldr> (at least, the one that marked me the most)
<joepie91> dunno if it was used to market the protocol, but it's at least a very useful technical property
<samueldr> yep
<samueldr> no need to resolve playback!
<joepie91> because it means that everything in the protocol has first-class support for multiple devices automatically
* joepie91 glances at XMPP
<samueldr> and ordering
<eyJhb> joepie91: so I have full scrollback on all devices?
<joepie91> unlike certain other protocols...
<joepie91> eyJhb: yep
<joepie91> + search
<joepie91> (search works a little differently for E2EE chats)
<samueldr> blah, can't find the illustrated matrix message thing I have in min
<samueldr> mind*
<joepie91> samueldr: the one with the nodes exchanging messages?
<samueldr> yes
<joepie91> it's on the matrix.org homepage
<joepie91> after a bit of scrolling :P
<samueldr> hm, not that one that I had in mind
<joepie91> ah
<samueldr> it's good though
<samueldr> I'm not even sure the one I have in mind exists
<joepie91> lol
* samueldr checks the wayback machine
<samueldr> hmm, might have been that the one I have in mind is a simplification of that one :)
<Church-> I should make a home server again
* joepie91 should go to bed
<joepie91> what "writing a modular set of Matrix libraries" looks like