<aleph->
gchristensen: Devault always has some fun opinions
<gchristensen>
aleph-: yeah ... I would rather not use his software
<aleph->
Like being frank, if he just explained himself better then 90% of the time I'd be fine with him. He just comes off as a jerk usually
<gchristensen>
yea
<aleph->
He's obviously experienced and formed his opinions for reasons. Just explain and don't be a jerk
<aleph->
Which he can't manage to do...
<samueldr>
something tickles me funny to see what is likely ~2020 as the future in a series made in 1997, and it's so off :)
<aleph->
Oh? What series?
<samueldr>
especially since they are supposed to have been influenced for three years by a race of extra-terrestrials
<samueldr>
Earth Final Conflict
<samueldr>
some of the "futuristic" tech is less futuristic than if I showed up with the best looking laptops or cellphones from our time
<gchristensen>
I was watching some silly movie from 1995 and ther ewas a character shouting insane ideas about what is coming and one of them was voice activated computers
<samueldr>
I don't know what year it is supposed to be set in, but a character has fought "the war of '01", and is in their 40s, so not more than 20-25 years has passed since the year of '01
<aleph->
Heh interesting
<samueldr>
though cars are not running on normal fuel!
<samueldr>
they use fuel cells!"
<samueldr>
(so possibly still oil derivatives, not batteries lol)
<aleph->
Fuel cells, the fuel of the future!
<abathur>
hmm
<samueldr>
this is a vehicle in which, in T H E F U T U R E, we will transport nuclear fuel
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<ashkitten>
holy shit
<ashkitten>
holy shit
<ashkitten>
samueldr: it's happening
<ashkitten>
cosmo order shipped, due on monday
<ar>
ashkitten: getting your cosmo?
<ashkitten>
yessss
<ar>
nice
<ashkitten>
well
<ashkitten>
it's not out of their hands yet
<ashkitten>
so i'll not say anything until it's been given over to fedex
<ar>
hopefully you'll have more luck with yours than i had with mine
<ashkitten>
i hope so
<ashkitten>
that's the last thing i was waiting on to ship, i think
<ashkitten>
besides a couple misc stuff
<ashkitten>
the headphones come tomorrow, along with a set of torx bits to remove the index's speakers
<ashkitten>
(they're fine speakers but pulseaudio misconfigures them and they're fairly inconvenient anyway because they only work while steamvr is running and are part of the headset)
<samueldr>
ashkitten: nice to hear about the cosmo
<samueldr>
is it me or is that keyboard a disaster?
<elvishjerricco>
Shrunk right shift keys are annoyingly common. Luckily my muscle memory never learned to use the right shift key so I wouldn't bother me :P
<energizer>
elvishjerricco: you use left shift for question mark, colon, and dquote?
<elvishjerricco>
energizer: Yup
<elvishjerricco>
I'd find using right handed keys with right shift would be more annoying, wouldn't it? Your right hand is no longer at home row and you have to reposition how you reach the key.
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<elvishjerricco>
I know that annoys me about my using left shift for left handed keys :P
<__monty__>
Traditionally you would shift with the opposite hand.
<__monty__>
Especially for keys normally typed with your pinky.
<colemickens>
ashkitten: the one time I've tried to patch Xwayland was for the proper hidpi support in X/Xwayland. While I did get it working, certain bits didn't work that I thought might be due to how I was patching (but never did confirm). I ended up dropping them though, that only lasted a few weeks.
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<ashkitten>
colemickens: would you be interested in trying some more or do you think it's not worthwhile?
<ashkitten>
i can try and work off of your hidpi support patch on my own
<colemickens>
I think that branch was off of master, so you might be able to just go off what I did and point at the drm branch and see if it just works?
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<colemickens>
(The gtksourceview4 change was just to cause a one-time rebuild removing xvfb_run from gtksourceview4 rather than it getting rebuilt every time I changed the xorg derivation again.)
<ashkitten>
alright, i'll take a look in a bit
<ashkitten>
btw, by "certain bits" can you elaborate?
<colemickens>
glxinfo was complaining about missing extensions or something like that?
<ashkitten>
ah okay
<colemickens>
I couldn't tell if it was because of a bug in the patch, because of a mix-match of xorg-master + other stuff? I have a pretty shakey understanding of how Linux graphical pieces fit together, let alone X :|.
<ashkitten>
i wonder if it's to do with your ./autogen.sh line
<ashkitten>
if configure was called without an argument usually included when generating a source tarball
<colemickens>
I hadn't even thought about that!
<drakonis>
AT LAST, I AM FREE
<ashkitten>
colemickens: want to revisit and see if you can fix it? ;p
<gchristensen>
for people not in USA, how has life changed since the initial lock-down?
<infinisil>
For me personally not much, as I don't go outside much anyways :)
<gchristensen>
is your area strictly locked-down still, or?
<infinisil>
It's been locked down for a while until there were only like 50 cases I think. Now it's opened up more, but cases are going up again
<infinisil>
Switzerland btw
<gchristensen>
gotcha
<infinisil>
They just passed a law that you need to wear a mask in public transport because of this
<infinisil>
From next monday
<gchristensen>
how about bars and restaurants?
<infinisil>
Not there I think
<gchristensen>
but they're open?
<infinisil>
I think most things are open again now yeah
<gchristensen>
gotcha
<gchristensen>
I'm just realizing I have no idea what other places are like
<FRidh>
Here in Sweden many things go on and have gone on quite as usual. Restaurants and bars are open, but for fewer people and with guidelines in place, so no bigger events. Entertainment parks are closed. And there is the request not to travel more than 2 hours away for holidays to consider the impact of health care in remote areas.
<ixxie>
In Finland public spaces like bars and restaurants and schools were closed for a few months; no masks required, social distancing recommended but not enforced (although most complied; its not alien to the culture anyway). Now things opened up again, and even travel to neighboring countries is allowed (except Sweden, which has very lax policies as FRidh reports)
<colemickens>
what other package manager lets you do that?
<gchristensen>
nice
<ashkitten>
colemickens: ugh, spent a while trying to get xserver to build right from the repo
<ashkitten>
no luck
<ashkitten>
it's the glx thingy
<colemickens>
Hmm. I did just bump my external monitor to 1.2x and cried at vscode. maybe I should try again. Though, if you're not having luck I don't know why I would.
<ashkitten>
my estimate is maybe if you set src as a source tarball that you generate from the repo
<colemickens>
What did you try at least? or maybe I should not know and try without being tainted :P
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<ashkitten>
i tried basically the same thing as you
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<drakonis>
ashkitten, from classes
<ashkitten>
oh, grats!
<ashkitten>
colemickens: if you can get it to work i'd be incredibly grateful, since i got the drm lease kmscube example working on sway but i can't play games because i need the xwayland patch
<qyliss>
gchristensen: in Berlin things feel largely back to normal, except masks are required in shops and on public transport, and if you go to a restaurant they take your address and phone number
<gchristensen>
interesting
<gchristensen>
that sounds pretty okay
<qyliss>
Yeah it is
<qyliss>
There were strict restrictions for a while. Unlike other European countries they never made it flat out illegal to go outside without a reason though, which I appreciated.
<qyliss>
Almost everybody actually wears the masks, which is nice. But some people only cover their mouths for some reason.
* colemickens
likes the chin guards
<gchristensen>
lol
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<__monty__>
Which countries made it illegal to go outside?
<philipp[m]1>
France and Russia, I think.
<gchristensen>
in France iirc you had to carry with you a self-written note about where you live and why you are out
<philipp[m]1>
Russia was super strict and apparently not even easily bribeable. You were basically only allowed to go to the nearest supermarket or to medical appointments.
<samueldr>
and the reason had to be worthwhil in france iirc
<samueldr>
(though worthwhile still can be as simple as a healthy health walk)
<__monty__>
Does anyone know of firefox settings that might prevent file uploads from working?
<samueldr>
is it that you can't select a file or that file upload (the transfer) doesn't work?
<philipp[m]1>
Iirc noscript broke http post in a few cases for me.
<samueldr>
if you can't select (no file selection), a thing that came to mind to check is XDG portals
<__monty__>
samueldr: I can select a file or drag and drop but the uploads keep failing. Got another image uploaded earlier though. And I found some duplicates among my images that were from a previous struggle to upload an image that I gave up on.
<samueldr>
right, so I don't have a clue :)
<__monty__>
Hmm, the web console does have an error about a CORS request.
<__monty__>
Hmm, not sure what those are about. Via a "post" button it worked but the image doesn't show up properly in the gallery even though it has been successfully uploaded.
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<philipp[m]1>
mainly for
<philipp[m]1>
(ignore that)
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<ashkitten>
aughhhhhh why weren't patches being applied to xorgserver
<ashkitten>
i had to add a patch command to preConfigure
<ashkitten>
:/
<ashkitten>
nope, doesnt work anyway
<ashkitten>
sigh
<ashkitten>
well, maybe in another year this will work out of box without patching
<ashkitten>
and i'll be able to use wayland for vr
<joepie91>
jtojnar: yeah, there's a thread somewhere that talks about experimental transclusion support in MDX, and that explicitly mentions the blank-line-separation requirement (cc energizer)
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<joepie91>
after a few days of undistracted hard work
<energizer>
is that js on the left? what language is on the right?
<samueldr>
looks like some serialized representation in json-like
<joepie91>
energizer: middle pane is a debug view of the AST after optimizing your input AST (which you've built yourself, because those nested function calls actually build up an AST!)
<joepie91>
the AST shown in the AST debug pane is what gets used to ultimately generate the query at the top
<energizer>
is this all running clientside?
<joepie91>
yeah
<joepie91>
it's not wired up to any database; the query builder itself is completely stateless and immutable
<joepie91>
in practice, when using it, you would pass the generated query to an executor
<joepie91>
which internally triggers optimization (if not occurred yet) and query stringification, filling in any gaps that are dependent on having stateful DB info (like some details about relation resolving, because this thing will actually be capable of handling relations as well, without ORM models)
<joepie91>
the executor does not actually exist yet :P but the whole query generation and optimization part is just a bunch of AST stuff, which can work entirely client-side
<joepie91>
energizer: Knex is highly mutable internally (which leads to bugs and makes it difficult to extend), it has a very inconsistent and relatively awkward API, it is not fully composable
<energizer>
cool
<joepie91>
with my query builder (raqb) you can just arbitrarily generate a chunk of query stuff somewhere, like the `niceNumbers` in the example code
<joepie91>
and reuse it in any amount of plaesa
<joepie91>
places*
<joepie91>
Knex cannot do that, since its query builder instances are stateful and mutable :P
<joepie91>
Knex also does not have any support for handling relations, raqb will
<joepie91>
and there are just a lot of ergonomics improvements over Knex
<joepie91>
like eg. `where({ foo: anyOf([ 1, 2 ]) })` instead of `where({ foo: 1}).orWhere({ foo: 2 })`
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<joepie91>
(relatedly, Knex has a big issue in that precedence of and/or operations are not clear, which is a problem that raqb does not have because they are allOf/anyOf wrappers rather than chained methods)
<joepie91>
likewise, in Knex, you're stuck doing stuff like `.where("foo", ">", 3)` whenever you need stuff other than 'equals', which is awkward; in raqb, that is just `.where({ foo: moreThan(3) })`
<qyliss>
__monty__: Spain and the UK too
<joepie91>
energizer: the allOf/anyOf API is also consistent between conditions/values and expressions, you can use it basically anywhere it makes sense, and it will result in a logical outcome
<qyliss>
And Italy
<joepie91>
energizer: updated the sample code to show moreThan usage :P
<joepie91>
energizer: oh, another thing is that raqb has actual input validation, which is... spotty at best in Knex, it will quite often let you pass in total nonsense. but in that demo, try changing one of the `where`s to `where(NaN)` for example
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<slack1256>
Guys, when replying with email, do you prefer to reply with the whole previous mail at the bottom or delete it an rely on their MUA threading responses correctly?
<samueldr>
the MUA threading possibly relies on the contents being there
<__monty__>
I either include it unchanged or I do mailing list style remove everything except for the bits you're responding to (including their signature etc.) and intersperse quotes and responses.
<qyliss>
Quote the bits that are relevant, put your reply after them.
<slack1256>
I like the interleaved style when trimmed of the cruft, I try to use it most of the time.
<slack1256>
But sometimes the previous mail is not that important to the reply (for example when an external event happened between replies). You just add it as a mark of continuity.
<bqv>
qyliss: actually technically speaking it was never actually "Illegal" in the UK, just a very strong advisory that was not even properly enforceable by the police
<bqv>
was all made painfully apparent by the shenanigans of dominic cummings...
<aleph->
Man I continue to hate volumes in k9s
<aleph->
Storage was a mistake
<__monty__>
Same thing in Spain. You were never forbidden to go out. Just had to have a good enough reason.
<emily>
I think I agree with a lot of that comment although I'm not sure the "forcing one version of every package" thing is something that really fits well with Nix's model (like, allowing arbitrary coexisting versions is why we have hash-filled paths in the first place)
<emily>
I guess there's a tension between Nix not caring at all about having one canonical version vs. nixpkgs generally sticking to that
<bqv>
oh you are alive
<emily>
(also hi I'm ~kind of around, just haven't had the time/energy for GitHub notifications, sorry)
<bqv>
no worries
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<emily>
I was going to say "don't worry, if I die eventually Hetzner will terminate my server and I'll drop off IRC" but I guess matrix.org won't care about that >_>
<bqv>
:D
<__monty__>
emily: It's not about not having two versions of something installed though. It's about having a consistent version of a dependency within a project/flake. To avoid linking to incompatible versions of a library for example.
<emily>
it's not about installation in Nix either
<emily>
Nix derivation dependency trees can and sometimes do have multiple versions of the same underlying package
<__monty__>
You could install/build a flake twice with different versions of the dependencies as long as you have internal consistency.
<emily>
like, nothing actually enforces any kind of matching up except arguably nixpkgs's callPackage
<bqv>
__monty__: i actually do, notably
<__monty__>
Having multiple versions of dependencies *can* be fine. It's just hard to determine when it's fine so most solutions either don't deal with the problem at all or limit things to one version per dependency to avoid all potential issues.
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<__monty__>
bqv: You do what?
<bqv>
use a flake multiple times
<__monty__>
Yeah, and that's 100% fine.
<bqv>
i don't know why that gave me "it's ok to be gay" vibes
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<emily>
I guess the real point I'd want to make is that flakes comes with a huge pile of arbitrary "package manager policy" decisions (of which "try to keep one global version of everything" vs. "keep dependency trees independent" is an example) but there's not much evidence that other package managers or the relative literature were looked into to make these decisions
<emily>
and it's far from clear to me that many of them are the best choice
<emily>
but I do think that the diamond dependency thing is kind of something you inherently run into using Nix
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<gchristensen>
any danish people about?
<__monty__>
srhb, eyJhb: Someone's beaming the Danish-sign into the clouds.
<gchristensen>
"Phi (1.618) is really close to the ratio between miles and kilometers (1.609) which means you can use adjacent Fibonacci numbers to quickly mentally convert back and forth between them" :o
<lassulus>
so 1km = 2miles?
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<lassulus>
:D
<__monty__>
Other way around.
<bqv>
oh my god that's awesome
<bqv>
i love it
<__monty__>
lassulus: And there's two definition's for the conversion of 1 mile, if you average them you get 1.5 km : )
<infinisil>
Ah yes, GDPR compliance: "451: Unavailable due to legal reasons. We recognize you are attempting to access this website from a country belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA) including the EU which enforces the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and therefore access cannot be granted at this time."
<gchristensen>
I wish I got those
<bqv>
GDPR is great in theory but it's just made everyone learn muscle memory of clicking "accept cookies" before you properly enter any site
<bqv>
where's the use in that
<gchristensen>
the cookie law was before gdpr
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<bqv>
oh, it was wasn't it
<gchristensen>
gdpr gave some meaning to the cookie law as far asI understand it
<bqv>
i guess that's why i mentally merged them a bit
<joepie91>
ah yes, the "we are colossal asshats" page
<gchristensen>
gdpr is why I can actually pay to remove ads and tracking on wapo
<__monty__>
I hate the implementation of the cookie thing but I like being able to explicitly refrain from granting consent.
<joepie91>
bqv: basically all of the cookie walls are violating the GDPR, for the record
<bqv>
me too, but not every site has just one button, some even have that whole "uncheck this list of 40 trackers"
<samueldr>
the thing is often there is no way not consent
<samueldr>
they are often worded "continuing to use the site means you accept"
<bqv>
joepie91: nice, normalize criminality!
<joepie91>
and they are nothing more than a shitty attempt by site operators to sneak by it
<joepie91>
they are in absolutely no way required by the GDPR
<joepie91>
by making it look "not that illegal"
<bqv>
but ok, if it's illegal, does that mean someone could sue them under EU law? and if so how much would that cost
<joepie91>
bqv: so the TL;DR of the actual situation with cookies: if you are designing your thing to be private-by-default, and not process more data than is necessary to provide the requested service, then you do not need to ask for consent for using cookies, *not even if you are using cookies*
<joepie91>
the only situation where you ask for consent is when you do not already have a legitimate reason to be processing data
<joepie91>
bqv: they can be fined by the regulatory privacy agencies; unfortunately those are heavily overworked so this isn't really getting enforced on yet
<joepie91>
however, final warnings have been issued in the past few months
<aleph->
Alright time to add that bittorrent tracker to nix
<joepie91>
more generally: consent dialogs that use dark patterns also violate the GDPR
<joepie91>
that includes "nice green button for accept, dim gray button for reject"
<bqv>
that's part of the bill?
<joepie91>
on that basis alone, almost every consent dialog fails to actually result in legally valid consent
<bqv>
that's fantastic
<bqv>
the EU actually thought this one out
<joepie91>
bqv: yes. I don't recall the specific passage, but there's a bunch of rules in the GDPR about how you're basically not allowed to lead people into 'consent', it must be voluntary and informed
<joepie91>
yes, the GDPR is extremely well written, I was kinda shocked by it
<samueldr>
but the CASL has leeway that makes it not *mandatory* for the pop-ups "As described above, under CASL, a person is considered to consent to the installation of a cookie if the person's conduct is such that it is reasonable to believe that they consent."
<joepie91>
it reads almost like a comprehensive review of every loophole that every asshat could have thought of
<bqv>
i take back my misgivings regarding it
<gchristensen>
samueldr: like ignoring it?
<joepie91>
bqv: I'd recommend just... reading it, at some point. it's actually pretty readable
<samueldr>
gchristensen: I don't follow
<bqv>
heh
<joepie91>
bqv: it's not small, but most of the volume is either a) closing off loopholes or b) introducing exceptions and leniencies for small companies, government stuff, etc.
<MichaelRaskin>
I guess gray/green dialog might be good enough to move them way down the enforcement queue… No need to be faster than a bear
<aleph->
I should go buy a cubicle for my office
<gchristensen>
samueldr: if I'm presented with a consent banner and ignore it and continue to use the site, that sounds like consent
<joepie91>
MichaelRaskin: that's basically the play, yeah
<samueldr>
I don't actually know...
<samueldr>
because "reasonable to believe they consent" showing a banner and not agreeing
<samueldr>
it is not reasonable to believe they consent!
<samueldr>
though the CASL is totally lauged at by all big cos
<samueldr>
you should be able not to consent to automatic updates
<samueldr>
there is no way to do so with Android
<samueldr>
(play store)
<MichaelRaskin>
joepie91: also we know that the amount of pain applied the first time varies a log, gray/green might get off relatively easy. Like no fines the first time.
<joepie91>
MichaelRaskin: fines are never the "first time", it always starts with a warning
<MichaelRaskin>
joepie91: I think it depends on both size and the amount of demonstrated disdain to the idea of privacy protection