<samueldr>
and even better in the chromeos-based hardware
<samueldr>
no
<samueldr>
where the you can change even the firmware of the device, except for the "management" chip which is the one chip that protects you from bricking if you do a bad flash as a user
<samueldr>
and that management chip is introspectable
<samueldr>
you can inspect it, and confirm that it matches byte for byte open source code
<pie_>
well, insofar as you can inspect any sort of chip :D
<samueldr>
so, yes "for now", google has an excellent track record
<pie_>
but that seems good
<samueldr>
pie_: yes, you have to start trusting at some point
<samueldr>
as always, as with everything
<samueldr>
but that hardware allows you to go quite deep
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<pie_>
sigh i should go do something useful
<pie_>
thanks i guess
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<ashkitten>
hmmm
<ashkitten>
my unrealistic dream is i'd really like if vendors would put in minimal effort to upstream hardware support for all new linux devices
<ashkitten>
including android
<samueldr>
that's a good example the chromeos hardware team does
<samueldr>
they *have* to upstream everything they do
<samueldr>
this is why coreboot has good support for those boards
<samueldr>
and why linux mainline also is generally not bad
<ashkitten>
unfortunately the same can't be said for android phones
<samueldr>
(there are issues, that are not kernel driver related, but more about architectural weirdness)
<samueldr>
exactly
<ashkitten>
including google's own pixel line
<samueldr>
yes
<samueldr>
things would be much better all around if the chromeos hardware team's way of working was the same for android's
<ashkitten>
yes
<ashkitten>
i'm a bit worried if fuschia becomes the new thing though, that linux won't run on them
<ashkitten>
though, fuschia is a microkernel. maybe linux can run as a service under that
<ashkitten>
but as long as everything is open source it can be worked into any os
<samueldr>
yeah, fuschia is a worrying thing that could happen
<samueldr>
since the licensing is "less restrictive"
<ashkitten>
yeah
* ashkitten
kinda wants redox to become a useful thing
<{^_^}>
undefined variable 'help' at (string):318:1
<c74d>
,help
<{^_^}>
Use `,` to list all commands, `,foo = Foo!` to define foo as "Foo!", `,foo =` to undefine it, `,foo` to output "Foo!", `,foo somebody` to send "Foo!" to the nick somebody
<c74d>
,
<{^_^}>
Special commands: find tell locate expand inclusive-language random-pr - Commands sorted by use count, page 0 (use ,<n> to view page <n>): help unstable libraries tofu paste escape'' declarative escape" ping -a library overlay pinning ifd unfree profiling channels ask botsnack which-channel xml pr tofu-vim xy wololo fancy-uninstall imperative nixlang++ cache pointers invite pills runtimedeps stateversion home-manager matrixbridge smart-questions
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<c74d>
,locate bin nixos-rebuild
<{^_^}>
Couldn't find in any packages
<c74d>
:<
<samueldr>
(it's technically not part of a package)
<c74d>
ah
<lovesegfault>
cole-h: where have you gone
<c74d>
ashkitten: re Redox, you also might be interested in Robigalia (#robigalia), though it's a rather longer-term, researchier project
<c74d>
one-sixth of the people there are also here :)
<lovesegfault>
gchristensen: Are you around? How can I add nixops master to a project with niv?
<lovesegfault>
trying to get it into my shell
<lovesegfault>
wait
<lovesegfault>
I think I got it
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<ashkitten>
hmmm i wonder if i could run jellyfin on my desktop
<ashkitten>
that might be nice
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<tilpner>
philipp[m]: If you're not decided on wireguard, tinc can do such a dynamic setup reasonably well
<tilpner>
Should be fine if your needs don't exceed 50MB/s
<philipp[m]>
Yeah, I had a tinc setup years ago and switched to wg.
<__monty__>
Does wg do mesh?
<philipp[m]>
Nope
<philipp[m]>
It has roaming features, but that's it.
<leons>
__monty__: Wireguard is only the transport. You can easily do mesh above that with routing protocols such as OSPF :)
<__monty__>
I'm not sure what your definition of easy is. Even setting up tinc is hard in my book.
<philipp[m]>
Problem is: Android...
<ashkitten>
tilpner: where does 50MB/s come from?
<ashkitten>
philipp[m]: there's a tinc android client
<leons>
tilpner: I've noticed considerably more power consumption using tinc on Android which is a deal breaker for me. WireGuard runs in my kernel on the phone, I don't even notice it.
<ashkitten>
if wireguard did mesh...
<srhb>
ashkitten: Yes please :P
<__monty__>
I wonder if Tailscale has a good phone solution? (c.e.)
<ashkitten>
i would probably switch back
<philipp[m]>
"ashkitten" (https://matrix.to/#/@freenode_ashkitten:matrix.org): I know. Meant ni ospf on android.
<ashkitten>
oh
<srhb>
Wonder how wg-dynamic is coming along..
<leons>
ashkitten: I've seen some efforts there though haven't investigated much. I'm actually very happy with wireguard only being the transport. It's so simple, the codebase is just beautiful (well, for C in the kernel at least)
<ashkitten>
honestly, i've got gigabit fiber now and will be moving onto a server with 3ms ping to me, i'll probably just have it relay all connections between my devices
<ashkitten>
or maybe i'll just keep using tinc
<ashkitten>
i don't really notice battery drain
<__monty__>
Well lah di dah. You braggart! >: o
<ashkitten>
:p
<ashkitten>
this is all incredibly recent
<leons>
ashkitten: Yeah, then you probably don't need it. I have a mixture of DualStack/v4only/v6only, with both Downlink and Uplink varying between 1Gbit/s to 3Mbit/s. So mesh is the only way to go :/
<ashkitten>
until a few weeks ago i had ~300/10Mbit, and 200ms ping to my server (now it's more like 70ms, it is still across the continent...)
<__monty__>
Gigabit's €79/mo here but I don't even have the hardware to enjoy it >.<
<ashkitten>
speaking of servers... can someone tell me where to get drive caddies?
<__monty__>
ashkitten: Improvisation is the only way to go, cut up a wetsuit or something.
<ashkitten>
sorry?
<philipp[m]>
OK, I still have a pretty stupid idea to solve my problem with a hacky application of the roaming. Wish me luck.
<tilpner>
ashkitten: IME tinc is CPU-bottlenecked on 1GBit/s networks, and my devices don't reliable reach >60MB/s
<ashkitten>
interesting
<ashkitten>
i haven't tested wired
<tilpner>
Which is fine for most things, but for e.g. backups I sometimes skip tinc if I'm in a hurry
<ashkitten>
i should check because my home network is 10Gbit fiber
<leons>
tilpner: I guess this due to context switches and not necessarily crypto?
<ashkitten>
but i don't have a second computer on fiber with tinc
<bqv>
10Gbit, sheesh
<leons>
ashkitten: To which country must I move to enjoy this kind of service?
<bqv>
atlantis, by the sounds of it
<tilpner>
leons: Yes, I've noticed the power usage too. I suppose that might be a deal-breaker if you require it to be on 24/7, but I only use occasionally on my phone
<ashkitten>
not 10Gbit internet, that's absurd
<ashkitten>
i have fiber between my desktop and the router
<bqv>
that seems extremely unnecessary
<ashkitten>
it is!
<bqv>
fair enough, carry on
<bqv>
i'm very happy with wireguard on mobile over tinc, fwiw. it being baked in so hard and being such a light and agile protocol means it doesn't rinse battery, and can actually stay up properly no matter what
<leons>
I recently had the joy of figuring out how to saturate a 40GBit/s Link. It's actually not that easy :)
<ashkitten>
bqv: how does wireguard over tinc work?
<ashkitten>
oh
<bqv>
:p
<ashkitten>
wireguard instead of tinc
<tilpner>
bqv: I don't suppose that's a vendor-provided OS on your Android device?
<ashkitten>
words are complicated
<bqv>
poor phrasing, sorry
<bqv>
tilpner: no, the wireguard app
<ashkitten>
i don't really know how i'd measure battery drain from a vpn app
<tilpner>
Battery life of my phone is terrible with and without it, but I get less than a day of standby with tinc running, and 2 to 3 without it
<bqv>
my best effort is anecdotally, and i've not managed to notice anything at all from having wireguard always-on
<bqv>
whereas tinc, ^
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<ashkitten>
interesting
<tilpner>
bqv: So it's not doing wireguard in the kernel?
<ashkitten>
anyway, good night
<bqv>
tilpner: it can do, if your phone is rooted it'll offer to load a kernel module
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<bqv>
otherwise it's software emulation i think
<leons>
bqv: Does it do that now? That would mean the horrors of having to build my own Android kernels are finally over?
<bqv>
it does!
<tilpner>
You make it sound like it would do wg in hardware otherwise c.c
<bqv>
:D
<bqv>
yeah poor phrasing again i guess
<tilpner>
But yes, that answers how the kernel could be new enough to know wireguard, on phones which usually don't have new kernel versions
<ashkitten>
oh btw, fwiw it's not like it being in kernel is that significant to battery life, it's more likely all the wakeups for network activity because tinc sends keepalive packets
<bqv>
mm, the wireguard protocol doesn't actually require keepalive, but if you have it, the period is configurable
<leons>
ashkitten: Well, the context switches and associated Android app wakeup events etc. do have a significant overhead. My WireGuard sends a keepalive every 15s without much battery drain
<ashkitten>
well, sure
<ashkitten>
that's android's fault
<leons>
Even if running in the kernel, the crypto is still done in Software. Are there even phones with ChaCha20 hardware support?
<ashkitten>
i'm sure it can be vectorized
<philipp[m]>
The beauty of ChaCha20 is that it doesn't really matter.
<bqv>
disabling systemd's capability to kill my emacs user service seems to have worked like a charm, emacs no longer randomly closes. that's crazy
<bqv>
i still have no idea why systemd loves to just randomly nuke my services
<bqv>
or, just that one in particular, actually
<MichaelRaskin>
On rebuild or at random?
<bqv>
legitimately at random
<bqv>
i can have it crash every 10 minutes
<bqv>
extremely infuriating
<eyJhb>
bqv: invalid pid file?
<bqv>
with Type=simple ?
<bqv>
i don't understand why it'd even expect a pidfile for a simple service
<philipp[m]>
How do I forward a package with iptables without nating it? Just keep the source intact and edit the dest?
<leons>
philipp: Why would you edit the destination?
<philipp[m]>
Well, edit the destination and send it on it's way again.
<leons>
If I'm not mistaken that's SNAT
<leons>
Nope, DNAT, but NAT in any case
<eyJhb>
Wel, going to the vet now
<leons>
philipp: What's you scenario? For typically forwarding (as in a Router), just add a route to your routing table and tell iptables to ACCEPT it
<philipp[m]>
The scenario is spoofing wg roaming. I need a fixed target to establish a tunnel but as long as the correct source address stays intact, the tunnel should be established between the points I actually want.
<leons>
So you want your wireguard to transparently connect to different endpoints depending on the network it's on?
<philipp[m]>
It's always the same endpoint but the IP can change... I thought that I could get around dyndns.
<philipp[m]>
I should do dyndns, but where is the fun in that?
<leons>
I can't imagine that not causing headaches.
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<philipp[m]>
Yeah, probably. Do we have any supported dyndns solutions in nixos?
<{^_^}>
[ "CloudFlare Dynamic DNS Client" "Client for updating dynamic DNS service entries" "Free dynamic DNS client" "Dynamic DNS daemon for no-ip accounts" ]
<philipp[m]>
Yep, I just hacked you and got your IP!
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<philipp[m]>
You are going to have to pay me in bitbuckz, to get your IP back.
<bqv>
D:
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<eyJhb>
Unstable bqv ?
<bqv>
as ever
<bqv>
pc randomly rebooted
<bqv>
it does that
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<bkv>
res ipsa loquitur...
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<eyJhb>
What computer are you using?
<eyJhb>
Self build?
<bqv>
Ye
<bqv>
Man, emacs crashed again
<bqv>
This is not a great day
<eyJhb>
bqv: Viiiiim
<eyJhb>
:p
<bqv>
i use it
<bqv>
i also use evil
<bqv>
evil-mode is the best of both worlds as long as you don't care about ram
<bqv>
so i use emacs generally and vim if i'm in ssh or on my phone or something, or in an emergency terminal
<eyJhb>
Vim all the time bqv
<bqv>
no
<bqv>
oh wow, nyxt doesn't support youtube
<bqv>
that's bizarre
<genevino>
:)
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<__monty_1>
Hmm, too bad the Signal AMA was on r/signal, all the interesting questions seem to have been drowned in fanboy-ism.
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<gchristensen>
I hate that this pandemic has caused me to build software to make buying groceries easier
<__monty__>
ERP for your home?
<gchristensen>
goop to take my todoist list and add it to instacart
<srhb>
I feel ashamed for doing essentially that by hand now. Am I a bad hacker? Where did I go wrong? Have I no ambitions? :D
<gchristensen>
I shop as utterly infrequently as possible, and so then it is a massive-massive list and takes a lot of time to just search for all the things
<srhb>
Makes sense.
<gchristensen>
and the instacart search page is incredibly painfully slow
<srhb>
When I get tired of city life I shall have a ginormous pantry.
<__monty__>
srhb: Prioritizing life over hacking doesn't make you a bad hacker. Though life = code, of course.
<srhb>
A truck will not suffice to deliver my groceries.
<gchristensen>
haha
<srhb>
__monty__: ... thanks... I.. Think. :D
<gchristensen>
despite living fairly rurally, my pantry is still not so big :/
<__monty__>
srhb: Are you thinking railroad or digging a channel?
<srhb>
Well that's just unfair.
<srhb>
hm!
<srhb>
catacombs + underwater channel, now that you mention it.
<gchristensen>
nice
<__monty__>
Ah, for that Zarathustra vibe.
<srhb>
I was going for apocalypse gondolieri, but that works too.
<gchristensen>
maybe I could build out a better pantry in the basement
<__monty__>
"What's this elevator lead to, graham? 😱"
<gchristensen>
lol
<srhb>
gchristensen: There's this horrible darknet diaries podcast episode where some poor guy goes pretty nutty and has people dig out an underground bunker in his basement.
<gchristensen>
honestly I'm just hopeful I can get a chest freezer thisyear
<gchristensen>
srhb: ooooft.
<srhb>
But yeah, chest freezer sounds like a fair goal. :D
<__monty__>
Smh, don't all go hide under a rock! >.<
<srhb>
I mean that's a tall order :P
<eyJhb>
gchristensen: NOW that you are here, regarding the FF Patch :D
* gchristensen
scurries away
<eyJhb>
Get, back, here. :p
<gchristensen>
;_;
<eyJhb>
Being able to load policies from /run/user/$UID/... poses the same security risk as being able to load them from $HOME/.mozilla/firefox/hutneo.default/policies.json. Or am I wrong? Both are controlled by the user? :p
<eyJhb>
You should have never wrote a message :p
<gchristensen>
okay but actually I'm not sure, and do need to step awayfor some houselhold stuff before monday
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<eyJhb>
Unsure as well, but it should be the same? Maybe? - Will try to see if I can hit up some Mozilla devs
<gchristensen>
__monty__: the drive failure was a fix while waiting for instacart to load
<gchristensen>
instacart is such trash
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<samueldr>
one good thing about silly-con valley tech businesses not wanting to read out laws written in french is that they often don't offer their services in our province
<samueldr>
our grocery stores (or their parents) each have their own systems
<gchristensen>
nice
<samueldr>
my mom was ordering groceries online since the early 2000s :)
<gchristensen>
I think I need more ram
<samueldr>
for instacart?
<gchristensen>
yah
<gchristensen>
I have a handful of tabs open
<samueldr>
get a remote session going on a beefy remote server
<gchristensen>
good idea
<gchristensen>
I'm grateful for when some of ff's processes get OOM'd, it means other tabs will start working
<pie_>
anyone know any scannning tools with a gui that i can also control programmatically
<pie_>
prophett
<pie_>
questionmark questionmark questionmark
<pie_>
basically, scan code on phone, get scan event on laptop, create store directory for document and launch scanner app
<pie_>
im looking to tie something into a document scanning workflow
<pie_>
my current idea is that i will launch gscan2pdf, do the scanning, manually tell it where to save, then have the scripts detect that i closed it, to end the document
<pie_>
MichaelRaskin: ?
<pie_>
the current idea seems rather crappy
<pie_>
not sure if i want to try learning perl and code a http api for gscan2pdf...
<MichaelRaskin>
Wait, scan the codes or actually scan the pages in reasonable quality in a scanner?
<MichaelRaskin>
And I do not understand how you want programmatic control and CLI to interact here
<pie_>
i mean, i scan the barcode to trigger the document scanning tooling
<pie_>
but i want the document scanning to be done with a gui
<pie_>
does that make more sense?
<MichaelRaskin>
Nope
<MichaelRaskin>
If you want a GUI, you want to take control of the computer doing the scans
<MichaelRaskin>
Like, what is helped by _also_ needing to use a smartphone?
<pie_>
ok you kind of have a point there but thats not strictly related
<__monty__>
MichaelRaskin: Not needing another qr code scanner?
<gchristensen>
:D
<pie_>
the document code is a sticker on the plastick sleeve thing the document is inű
<pie_>
__monty__: i think the point was "why dont i just scan that too"
<pie_>
the scanner is slow
<MichaelRaskin>
Hm. Write a HTTP endpoint, that creates the directory, cd's there and launches XSane?
<pie_>
yeah i figured something like that, didnt think of looking into xsane, will look at it
<MichaelRaskin>
I mean, whatever, key point is mkdir + cd
<pie_>
yeah
<pie_>
thats the part i had figured out :P
<MichaelRaskin>
And GUI is to limit the scan area?
<pie_>
not entirely sure what i want yet, i imagine the user facing process going something like: take pack out of binder, scan sleeve code, remove documents from sleeve, scanner is open, press "scan" as many times as necessary, possibly redoing bad scans etc, scan next document
<pie_>
(reinsert into sleeve, put back in binder, etc)
<__monty__>
Opinions on flatbed vs "diy book scanner with non-great camera?"
<pie_>
well, my budget for this is "i need to use what i already have"
<pie_>
MichaelRaskin: im just trying to optimize the process for myself since i will need to go through several thousand old family documents
<pie_>
the gui doesnt need to be limited, just needs to make common operations relatively streamlined so i dont go nuts
<pie_>
and make it possible to fix things as i go (hence something full features like gscan2pdf)
<pie_>
i mean, im going to go nuts anyway, but yeah
<MichaelRaskin>
Not sure if you can fix that much with a typical scanner…
<pie_>
hm. i guess one of the main things is i dont want to need to click around too much in the save as dialog, kinda just want a "done" button or something...
<MichaelRaskin>
What do you hope to be able to fix?
<gchristensen>
there are probably a lot of operations you'll want to have aesy to re-do
<MichaelRaskin>
Because otherwise scanimage in a loop, with «Enter» = scan next, «r+Enter»=rescan sounds like your best bet
<MichaelRaskin>
There is like _one_ operation, scan a page
<pie_>
MichaelRaskin: that might work
<pie_>
i guess i dont see why it wouldnt, i think i havent needed to set any fancy optins
<pie_>
and i can just have an image viewer auto-refresh or something
<{^_^}>
nix-community/impermanence#11 (by talyz, 5 weeks ago, open): home-manager: Bind mount directories instead of symlinking them
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<pie_>
hm ok so right now i want a scriptable image viewer that has a catalog view...
<pie_>
though at that point i guess maybe just a file manager with thumbnails lol..
<__monty__>
pie_: Like ranger?
<__monty__>
: >
<__monty__>
sxiv and feh do what you want though.
<__monty__>
And mpv with an extension, technically.
<pie_>
i didnt know they have a catalog view
<pie_>
also since when does ranger have thumbnails
<__monty__>
You mean thumbnails of all the files you opened, right?
<__monty__>
And ranger has had image previews for ages.
<__monty__>
From before I became a maintainer.
<pie_>
doesnt that require weird x11 hacks or something , that may or may not work
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<pie_>
maybe we're talking past eachother
<__monty__>
Depends on your terminal emulator.
<pie_>
i want thumbnails of all the files in a directory yeah
<samueldr>
can a fintech startup come up here in Québec and disrupt payment with credit card numbers that you can make per-vendor?
<samueldr>
it looks like I'm getting a new card *again*
<__monty__>
It used to rely on w3mimgdisplay. But we now support ueberzug, which just uses an X11 overlay window, works pretty well. We also have methods supporting urxvt (with a hack), terminology and kitty natively.
<__monty__>
samueldr: Like privacy.com?
<samueldr>
or any other that wants to operate here
<__monty__>
And why do you need new cards frequently? What shady businesses do you frequent? : >
<samueldr>
I don't know which one is the shady one that leaks my info
<samueldr>
that's the issue
<samueldr>
I have few uses, but it still happens
<__monty__>
Info as in card number? No alternative methods available like, ugh, paypal?
<samueldr>
I use paypal to help with that
<samueldr>
but sometimes paypal is not an option
<samueldr>
like here, amazon
<samueldr>
amazon triggered the fraud prevention of my bank
<gchristensen>
my 1 head of garlic turned out to be 1 pound of garlic
<samueldr>
gchristensen: time to make garlic butter
* samueldr
has no concept of what a pound of garlic would look like
<pie_>
hm interesting <__monty__> samueldr: Like privacy.com?
<gchristensen>
11 heads
<__monty__>
WTH? That must be a gigantic bulb of garlic!
<__monty__>
Awww
<__monty__>
Just a second late : /
<gchristensen>
classic instacart units
<samueldr>
imagine "but I mashed *only one* clove"
<__monty__>
At least garlic keeps pretty well.
<philipp[m]>
gchristensen: Now you can make people social distance themselves away from you!
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<samueldr>
I love how amazon pretends their sites operate independently (.com, .ca)
<samueldr>
but your account works across both, and you edit your payment information on one it reflects on the other
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<philipp[m]>
That's how I could buy some very cheap hdds from spain yesterday!
<colemickens>
13" + Ryzen 7 + QHD 2560x1600, can it be true?
<samueldr>
ugh, I (again) have asian market envy
<samueldr>
asian tech market*
<samueldr>
nice, amazon apparently cannot trace the transaction in their system
<samueldr>
but there is "no fear for fraud"
<__monty__>
How does ryzen fare compared to intel for compiling?
<samueldr>
IIRC similarly pound for pound of cycles and cores
<__monty__>
Doesn't GCC have more intel-specific optimizations?
<samueldr>
but that's where it gets interesting, you can get a chip that uses less power, and has more core, than the intel offer at the same price range... or even for cheaper!
<__monty__>
Oh, and I assume this goes without saying but linux performance, don't care about other OSes.
<samueldr>
I guess it'll get better as it gets more popular
<samueldr>
IF it's not already on par
<__monty__>
I looked at benchmarks for ryzen 1 or 2 and they weren't very favorable back then. Even though cycles and cores were similar.
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<samueldr>
the plural of amazon is amazonses, right?
<cole-h>
wot
<samueldr>
well, you have one amazon (amazon.com), two amazonses (AWS), three amazonses (sellers account), four amazonses (amazon.ca) ah ah ah