<samueldr>
(unless it wasn't lovesegfault building into one of these)
<colemickens>
nice yeah that's it, thanks
<samueldr>
??? I was reading a uevent file under /sys/class, with a MODALIAS entry as expected
<samueldr>
and now they're gone?
<samueldr>
while I was working on the script that made use of MODALIAS
<samueldr>
without touching the hardware
<samueldr>
and nothing of interest AFAICT in dmesg
<samueldr>
I don't know much about uevent files, but shouldn't they be quite static?
<samueldr>
so I guess they're completely unreliable and I won't use them to distinguish between nodes under /sys/class :/
<samueldr>
why is it that we have by-* many ways to distinguish block devices, and predicatable network interface names, but none of that for anything else?
<samueldr>
pretty arbitrary imo to limit predictable naming to some class of hw
<samueldr>
though, tbf, modalias is available as a file too, not only in uevent, so at least I don't have to start from scratch
<lovesegfault>
we'll see if my new intel wifi card improves the above
<lovesegfault>
this laptop has an old wifi ifae
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<cole-h>
It's music sharing time again -- been listening to this one a lot recently: https://youtu.be/KyE4aMxsd6c
<cole-h>
Every once in a while, YouTube's algorithm does a good.
<bkv>
Systemd is murdering emacs again :(
<bkv>
I fixed it with killmode=none, so it can't actually kill emacs
<bkv>
But that doesn't answer why sysd has it in for emacs
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<bqv>
<LAMBDA>
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<c74d>
"2020-07-10 03:29:57 <cole-h> I don't know how well ZFS handles ungraceful shutdowns due to power... <cole-h> ... outages... <pie_> i would like to assume pretty well"
<c74d>
From some years ago when I would idle in #zfsonlinux, I recall one of the developers (ryao) saying that he would routinely cut power to his computer to make a point of this
<eyJhb>
gchristensen: It is the normal firefox profiles, located in ~/.mozilla/firefox
<adisbladis>
lovesegfault: I listened to one song on those that made the schiit amp not keep up anymore. You wanna see if you can reproduce? ;)
<eyJhb>
Like I guess one could locate them in the NixStore, but either way , the profiles need to have write access to the profile, and I guess there is no way, to force a pref on the user, that they cannot change manually
<eyJhb>
Now with flakes and everything, will we see a split up of pkgs and the actual lib?
<adisbladis>
eyJhb: I sure hope not
<eyJhb>
Why not adisbladis ?
<adisbladis>
Because it hampers discoverability
<eyJhb>
Seemed like it is useful in some cases, where you don't want to pull in everything
<adisbladis>
I guess, I don't think it's the right trade-off.
<adisbladis>
I think one of the key successes of nixpkgs has been the fact that it's largely a monorepo
<srhb>
The monorepo nature is great for ease of contributing to nixpkgs and keeping things consistent. I think it's one of our strongest selling points. :)
<srhb>
ah, what adisbladis said :P
<adisbladis>
<3 srhb
<{^_^}>
srhb's karma got increased to 117
<MichaelRaskin>
Haing a monorepo is one of those things that some people pretend are not a key part of how Nixpkgs works as a project
<MichaelRaskin>
Turing-complete Nix language is probably another one
<adisbladis>
That said, there is some awkwardness in importing external libs into nixpkgs since you need to copy expressions
<adisbladis>
lovesegfault: I'm always struck by just how incredibly insane that song is
<adisbladis>
I don't know of any other that contains a section of pure sub-bass
<bkv>
immae: did you get nyxt to work btw
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<eyJhb>
Okay okay guys! You win
<eyJhb>
Makes sense
<adisbladis>
eyJhb: Though I have projects where I'm not entirely sure
<eyJhb>
I do however wish for a better and easier way to search the lib, and a better naming convention + in what order arguments are given
<eyJhb>
But wouldn't that be a good example of when to use flakes?
<adisbladis>
Maybe?
<bkv>
Precisely
<eyJhb>
Can you two agree?
<eyJhb>
:p
<bkv>
No :p
<eyJhb>
I guess not
<adisbladis>
bkv: I'll fight you to the death!
<bkv>
🔫
<eyJhb>
bkv: I guess do not fuck with a viking?
<eyJhb>
Damn it, guns.
<bkv>
I live in York, I AM the viking
<adisbladis>
(ง'̀-'́)ง
<adisbladis>
Come at me bro
<bkv>
Heh
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<eyJhb>
bkv: aren't you the guys that got owned by the vikings? :|
<eyJhb>
Nordic Brothers UNITE! (and sisters)
<adisbladis>
Brothers of all genders
<bkv>
I mean yeah but they're now this land's ancestors
<bkv>
Th
<adisbladis>
bkv: That's just diluted viking
<bkv>
This city's named after Jorvik
* adisbladis
< 100% viking
<bkv>
Hmph
<eyJhb>
adisbladis: true!
<eyJhb>
Should I... Just play Ark all day, make some Firefox profile thingy, take a day trip to Mols with the girl?
<adisbladis>
eyJhb: I do think that maybe at some point both those repos will be fully externalized
<adisbladis>
Because how it's currently done is really annoying
<eyJhb>
Just a teeny tiny bit
<eyJhb>
It really hurts my, do not copy code, quite a lot
<bkv>
I'm curious to see the result of your firefox shenanigans, since I still need firefox for shitty drm sites
<bkv>
Unless anyone knows how to hook up webkitgtk to widevine
<adisbladis>
eyJhb: Don't copy that floppy
<bkv>
Apparently it's possible, just requires a blood sacrifice or something…
<eyJhb>
adisbladis: I will copy everything. I also have a problem regarding challenges for my platform, since I do not like the idea of having to copy repos such as https://github.com/fbsamples/fbctf-2019-challenges
<eyJhb>
But making a patch for such a repo makes NO SENSE
<eyJhb>
Since so many things need to be changed
<eyJhb>
bkv: what are you currently using?
<bkv>
the lisp browser
<eyJhb>
Also, bkv you use home-manager, right?
<bkv>
Yers
<eyJhb>
I need a better typing than `shoo`, when I want to `shoo` someone away
<eyJhb>
The nxvt or what it was called
<bkv>
nyxt
<bkv>
Like "next" but in a new zealand accent
<eyJhb>
I got some things correct :p But how come that support better DRM than FF?
<bkv>
Wrong way round
<bkv>
I use firefox for drm
<bkv>
webkitgtk just doesn't support it by default
<bkv>
Tbh I've been considering looking at slipping servo in and seeing how it fares
<srk>
oO.. RIP: 0010:switch_mm_irqs_off+0x3ec/0x4f0 .. can't boot a qemu vm that worked before
<MichaelRaskin>
But sure, I try to do ad-hoc browsing in ways avoiding GUI
<bkv>
Interesting
<eyJhb>
Quick warning to everyone that knows Nix, I am starting a on the Firefox thingy, so HIDE if you care for your safety. Lots of questions incoming
<eyJhb>
adisbladis: you know you are a target :p
<MichaelRaskin>
You mean extension packaging?
<eyJhb>
Also that, but is actually not a MUST have, as it can be installed from URLs as well (only the ones whitelisted){
<eyJhb>
But making them from source would be ideal as well
<eyJhb>
Even though most is just, zip.
<MichaelRaskin>
Even starting with upstream zips, there is the question of auto-building the profile including the extensions
<eyJhb>
What do you mean?
<bkv>
Declarative extensions means painful update process, I like the idea but that part stops me
<eyJhb>
bkv: not exactly :p You can do both as you wish.
<MichaelRaskin>
Ah, almost all my FF instances use empty start-up profiles cloned from a Nix-built one, so I do not care about updates
<eyJhb>
You can just give it a path, to the latest, and it will always be up-to-date
<eyJhb>
But you could make a xpi, and give that to it instead
<eyJhb>
Having a profile which Firefox cannot modify is... not nice I assume
<eyJhb>
Not sure how well it handles that
<immae>
bkv: I got it (nyxt) to work on nixos, I didn’t investigate yet for non-nixos
<bkv>
Also, forgot, servo won't build on nix cause the nix-rust ecosystem is universally incapable of handling it's cargo toml
<bkv>
immae: ahh ok
<srk>
wow, even 20.03 installer image panics instantly with qemu 5
<__monty__>
I use home-manager's firefox module and after every update I have to restart firefox *3* times for it to pick up my profile properly : /
<bkv>
Yikes
<eyJhb>
__monty__: how "pick it up"?
<eyJhb>
Yeah, firefox will not play well with a read only dir for a profile :p
<eyJhb>
Maybe with the bare minimum files it will
<__monty__>
The first time it simply doesn't work. The second time it prompts with the profile selection window, then proceeds to not work. The third time it starts up, restoring all my tabs and being completely fine.
<__monty__>
My profile's not read-only, just managed by HM.
<eyJhb>
Weird, it should work better.
<eyJhb>
I know, but would be nice with a RO profile
<eyJhb>
We like things being in the store :p
<eyJhb>
Honestly I like most about what rycee has done in the Firefox module
<__monty__>
Sure, HM isn't about the nix store. I'm just warning you that there may be slight usability issues. Come to think of it it might be because I have to install firefox applications because the derivations from nixpgks didn't work for me on darwin.
<eyJhb>
It is fairly clean, etc. and the code is a lot better than I can write :p
<__monty__>
Yes, it's still great, I wouldn't want to live without it.
<eyJhb>
Learning Nix slowly, but damn I am bad at it
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<eyJhb>
Seems fairly easy to throw in, but that is a lot of addons I need to find :|
<eyJhb>
Would be nice to build some extensions from git
<__monty__>
Not sure what you mean? Most of those come from the HM module.
<__monty__>
Or maybe rycee's NUR.
<eyJhb>
I would actually have expected the ones from nur, to be build from source. - Yeah I know, but the way I have implemented extensions does not really support extensions in that way, they are currently packaged
<eyJhb>
Maybe it should, but I also like the ability to say F it, and just use the latest
<__monty__>
Doesn't rycee's NUR provide the latest versions from the marketplace?
<eyJhb>
It does, if updated
<eyJhb>
But it points to a specific version, which it should
<eyJhb>
But there is the ability with policies, to always just get the latest version
<bkv>
Ugh, all I want for christmas is a nix derivation for servo
<eyJhb>
bkv: go go
<eyJhb>
Make one :p
<bkv>
I've tried...
<bkv>
You try
<bkv>
Rust is f****d
<eyJhb>
I have no desire to do so! I have amit I suck at Nix :p
<__monty__>
I'm not a fan of automagic updates.
<eyJhb>
I feel like there is a script missing from the NUR repo, that is used for updating these
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<eyJhb>
Are there any statistics for Firefox addons downloads?
<gchristensen>
surely
<eyJhb>
gchristensen: any clue where they are?
<MichaelRaskin>
I think on the addon page at addons.mozilla.org
<sphalerite>
gchristensen: I think you can't use --map-root-user if you want to do that
<gchristensen>
I want to do some mounts, though ;/
<sphalerite>
gchristensen: then I think you need to use -U and do the UID mapping yourself (and make sure the user you're starting unshare as has some extra UIDs available)
<gchristensen>
hmmmm
<gchristensen>
or maybe I could use map-root-user with a persistent mount namespace, and re-enter as me later?
<sphalerite>
hmmmmmaybe
<gchristensen>
wait, I can't do that because I can't mount as me normall :)
<sphalerite>
not sure I get that?
<eyJhb>
What is the goald gchristensen ?
<gchristensen>
a persistent mount namespace requires mounting the persistent namespace somewhere
<gchristensen>
eyJhb: doing funny things with filesystems and firefox
<sphalerite>
gchristensen: oooh haha.
<sphalerite>
gchristensen: wait, but what if you _don't_ use a persistent mount namespace, instead having a process to persist it?
<sphalerite>
gchristensen: like unshare -rm -- sh -c 'mount --bind /foo /bar; exec sleep infinity'
<sphalerite>
gchristensen: then use nsenter -t $(pgrep sleep) -m ?
<gchristensen>
oh, that might work!
<gchristensen>
I've been doing funny things with namespaces lately and flokli has given me a vote of no-confidence on being able to do it :P
<sphalerite>
and now you have to prove him wrong?
<gchristensen>
I'm afraid he might be right
<gchristensen>
:)
<sphalerite>
oh no!
<gchristensen>
systemd user netlink instead of unix sockets is messing me up
<gchristensen>
using*
<tilpner>
Huh, I wondered if sleep special-cased infinity, but it's just accepts most things accepted by strtod, including e.g. 0X0.FP3
<tilpner>
I'm only slightly disappointed "sleep nan" doesn't work
<gchristensen>
arianvp: twitter is busted but my thinking is I'd be able to add NETLINK_LISTEN_ALL_NSID to the right places for the right sockets and it'd work
<gchristensen>
arianvp: silly?
<elvishjerricco>
How the fuck do I delete a bookmark folder in Firefox? It's very dumb that this isn't obvious
<elvishjerricco>
Like I can't even figure out how to kill one item in the folder
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<cransom>
right click, delete? the pre-existing ones aren't purgable to me.
<__monty__>
arianvp: Any word on that bitwarden twitter thread?
<elvishjerricco>
cransom: There's nowhere I can right click a bookmark folder as far as I can tell.
<cransom>
bookmarks -> show all bookmarks pops open a window, where i'm doing it.
<elvishjerricco>
cransom: Does not show folders unfortunately
<__monty__>
elvishjerricco: It does, in the sidebar.
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<eyJhb>
Is there any about:config that sets the default search engine?
<__monty__>
Surely there is.
<eyJhb>
I would think so too
<eyJhb>
But can't really find it
<elvishjerricco>
__monty__: I do not see a sidebar at all :P
<__monty__>
elvishjerricco: Are you sure you're using firefox?
<elvishjerricco>
__monty__: Lol yes
<elvishjerricco>
I am on macos though
<__monty__>
Me too.
<elvishjerricco>
Huh
<elvishjerricco>
Wonder why I can't see a sidebar
<__monty__>
Show all bookmarks pops up a window with a sidebar and the list of bookmarks.
<elvishjerricco>
__monty__: I do get the window, and my regular bookmarks are there. Folders of bookmarks are not though
<__monty__>
Share a screenshot?
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<eyJhb>
__monty__: does not seem to be possible, as well as adding search engines
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<eyJhb>
Damn you Firefox, why have you taken that away from me
<tilpner>
You can add search engines!
<__monty__>
tilpner: But not through about:config?
<tilpner>
No
<__monty__>
That's the problem.
<tilpner>
You get to patch omni.ja
<__monty__>
Ah.
<tilpner>
c.c
<__monty__>
Workarounds ftw.
<tilpner>
Oh, and FF only accepts search engines as default if their id ends in @search.mozilla.org
<tilpner>
(That took a while to figure out)
<eyJhb>
You managed to do it using a plugin, right tilpner ?
<__monty__>
Hmm, where would you find that file, tilpner?
<eyJhb>
And it is idiotic that it is not possible to do using policies
<eyJhb>
Sourcecode I guess
<tilpner>
eyJhb: "it" being adding a search engine, or setting it as the default?
<tilpner>
Might be possible with ESR with policies
<eyJhb>
tilpner: both :p
<eyJhb>
Yeah, ESR can
<eyJhb>
But what exactly is ESR?
<__monty__>
Extended Support Release.
<eyJhb>
Doesn't that just mean, a older version?
<tilpner>
__monty__: omni.ja? E.g. here: /nix/store/nq48q73cd9vy1j14x07d9dhf10kxanr1-firefox-unwrapped-77.0.1/lib/firefox/browser/omni.ja
<__monty__>
Oh, : / Thought it was part of a profile.
<__monty__>
Where does firefox add engines you add through the marketplace?
<tilpner>
Those are extensions too, but they can't make themselves default without user approval
<__monty__>
eyJhb: Fwiw, I use bookmarks with smart keywords for search engines.
<__monty__>
Haven't found a way to do it through nix though.
<eyJhb>
You are doing so well FF, but ... do not keep settings in weird places
<eyJhb>
So who will make a toSQLITE in NixOS?
<tilpner>
You could probably write a tiny extension to declarative manage a subtree of bookmarks via managed storage, which is defined in policies.json
<tilpner>
eyJhb: Have you had the pleasure of .json.mozlz4 yet?
<eyJhb>
Nope, not yet
<eyJhb>
Hoping not to
<eyJhb>
What do they contain?
<eyJhb>
And what are they
<sphalerite>
sound like… json compressed with mozilla LZ4?
<tilpner>
Yes, but also no
<tilpner>
They prefix these files with b'mozLz40\0', so you can't just throw it into lz4
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<__monty__>
>.<
<tilpner>
I assume that's the goal though, to keep pesky users from messing things up
<eyJhb>
tilpner: you do know, that you love it. Right?
<eyJhb>
So what is the goal here, a set of extensions so we can manage everything in Firefox
<tilpner>
._.
<__monty__>
eyJhb: Having to compile firefox is quite horrible UX tbh. firefox-bin is a thing because the nixpkgs-compiled firefox takes a severe performance hit iirc? It's like a 30% difference.
<tilpner>
Why would -bin be faster?
<__monty__>
I think it's an official binary, just nix provides the deps.
<tilpner>
Sure, but there's no reason -bin has to be faster, right?
<__monty__>
No, but no one's been able to figure it out so far.
<__monty__>
afaik
<tilpner>
Do you have a source for the performance difference?
<__monty__>
IRC logs maybe.
<eyJhb>
Go go tilpner :p Firefox is generally not nice to compile
<eyJhb>
Especially using NixOS, since make has no state
<eyJhb>
AS far as I know
<tilpner>
Ahh, profile-guided optimisation might help... but 30%?
<tilpner>
"Note: PGO builds will take much longer than normal builds! With GCC, you will wind up doing two complete clobber builds."
<tilpner>
Sounds fun
<eyJhb>
So
<eyJhb>
Go go? :D
<tilpner>
:/
<eyJhb>
It is actually annoying that they are limiting it to having user interaction. I could understand it with prefs, but hecking org policies?
<eyJhb>
No way
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<eyJhb>
Well, chromium wins this one
<eyJhb>
You can set the search provider
<eyJhb>
Bookmarks as well __monty__
<eyJhb>
Unlimited nesting
<eyJhb>
Very much considering Chromium now...
<__monty__>
That's too much google for my tastes.
<__monty__>
I have faith that mozilla will do the right thing in the end.
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<colemickens>
I've also repeatedly seen the claim that Mozilla produces better (more performant) Firefox builds than all of the distros.
<colemickens>
But I've also not seen numbers on it. And I just switched about a week and a half ago... idk... it "feels" the same to me.
<colemickens>
(I switched from firefox-nightly->'firefox' about two months ago, and then 'firefox' to 'firefox-bin' a couple weeks ago when I got hwaccel working in all builds.
<eyJhb>
Is there any real diff with -bin??
<eyJhb>
What is it even
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<__monty__>
Time to either benchmark or do blind testing.
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<lovesegfault>
adisbladis: My complaint of the schiit amp with the raal is that it's almost too precise
<lovesegfault>
like, too analytical
<lovesegfault>
I like a warmer, softer sound
<lovesegfault>
I think it'll be good when I put a tube pre
<philipp[m]>
Can I pluck your brains for a weird wireguard setup idea for a minute?
<philipp[m]>
I've got a server, a desktop and a phone. Server is on the net, desktop is nated and phone will travel.
<philipp[m]>
Everyone can talk to the server of course and has an existing wg connection.
<leons>
philipp: I've solved most of my mobility issues using OSPF over WireGuard, since I'm on various networks with different connectivity issues (IPv4/IPv6 only, low uplink, etc.)
<leons>
Only exception being Android, which unfortunately always dials into a specific server :/
<philipp[m]>
I want a direct connection between phone and desktop: If I set up a forwarding that forward packages from a certain port on the server via the vpn to the desktop and that desktop has a wg listening there, the phone could talk to the dasktop and from there they should start to use the roaming functionality to establish a direct connection because the desktop should see the phones source, right?
<philipp[m]>
Leon: Yeah, that's the thing. Only android/wg on the phone.
<leons>
phillip: Yeah, that is the exact issue I was solving with my Linux boxes. For better or for worse WireGuard doesn't share any meta information about other clients etc.
<leons>
In most cases you will just have a static route to the next hop being the WireGuard server you're connecting to
<leons>
You can't conditionally change routes depending on whether a WireGuard peer is reachable AFAIK, as it's also hard to define whether something is reachable
<philipp[m]>
I saw something different: wg android app now has an api for those remote controll apps.
<leons>
Apart from the periodic session key exchange, WireGuard is stateless, so you have no chance of knowing whether a connection is "established"
<philipp[m]>
Maybe I can activate a tunnel when I'm connected to my home network...
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<leons>
I guess scripting around the problem is the only solution, it's not natively supported in the protocol
<leons>
In any case, if you manage to run OSPFv3 with bird2 on Android in any usable fashion, please let me know. 🙂 Otherwise I'll have to wait for Mobile Nixos
<arianvp>
__monty__: they removed the tracking code from their website
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<__monty__>
Hmm, no acknowledgement though?
<ashkitten>
hm, my ssh keys are blocked from accessing gitlab.com and i can't log in
<ashkitten>
haven't received any emails from them about anything
<ashkitten>
so i guessed their support email
<ashkitten>
let's see what happens
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<__monty__>
And you're not confusing gitlab.com with a hosted instance?
<philipp[m]>
lol, I bet they get a dozen support tickets per day because people get confused.
<eyJhb>
gchristensen: honestly, my patch actually introduces zero extra vulns
<eyJhb>
Because you see, people at Mozilla are not coordinated...
<eyJhb>
And works against themselves
<cole-h>
You'll need to ask Mozilla if that's allowed. https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/31843#issuecomment-346372756 "as long as you keep the patch queue sane..., you won't have any issues using the official branding" I don't know if I'd call that patch sane (or insane, to be fair)
<eyJhb>
cole-h: I actually alter 0 things after all, the only difference is I make it so that each profile can have its own policy file
<eyJhb>
The fun thing is. Sideloading was disabled, because it was not secure, as malware etc. used it to put persistent stuff into your browser
<eyJhb>
Somebody bitched about it, saying that it is not nice to disable, and can we then get policies that are in /run/user/$UID
<eyJhb>
Which actually mean, that having disabled the sideloading for sec, is null and void now, as any malware with the user permission can place the file in /run/user/$UID/...
<eyJhb>
Also, not a attack on you cole-h :p Just thought of it while doing the dishes
<cole-h>
"I make it so that each profile can have its own policy file" sure sounds like an alteration :P
<cole-h>
If it were up to me, I'd still want permission from Mozilla before accepting that patch, tbh
<samueldr>
ugh, customer support software that I think is buggy on the other end :(
<eyJhb>
It is a alteration, but it is not insane at all :D And it would be a MUCH bigger "nono" if it weren't for the other patch
<eyJhb>
cole-h: It wouldn't go into firefox anyway, but a wrapper or something. Maybe just a flag
<samueldr>
they use e-mail as the way to reach out, but I believe their system doesn't track e-mail chains right, so every reply looks like it is seen as a new query for support on their end
<eyJhb>
Also, no clue of how to reach Mozilla in the best way
<eyJhb>
Contacting sylvestre?
<cole-h>
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<eyJhb>
cole-h: you come here and give contact info :P
<cole-h>
I'd start with sylvestre, yeah. Probably through an email. Then maybe go to their bugzilla.
<eyJhb>
There is no email for sylvestre
<eyJhb>
OR IS THERE
<cole-h>
Have they ever committed to GH? :P
<eyJhb>
Pricesely
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<eyJhb>
Github does not show emails, does it?
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<cole-h>
No, have to view git history
<eyJhb>
Got it
<eyJhb>
cole-h: sent, lets see if he answers :)
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<samueldr>
but it seems they dropped that inbox since then?
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<eyJhb>
samueldr: Who are you writing?
<samueldr>
unless you have contacts at big oems, I prefer just venting :)
<samueldr>
(or anyone here, my PMs are open)
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<eyJhb>
Ehmm.. Which.. Product?
<eyJhb>
:p
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<samueldr>
ah, sorry, phones
<samueldr>
I thought I was type cast
<eyJhb>
samueldr: do you have any contacts at universities? Becaue they usually have some
<samueldr>
none at al
<samueldr>
all*
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<eyJhb>
I know we do a lot with NQKIA :p
<samueldr>
I didn't get fancy shmancy educamation
<eyJhb>
Is there anything in particular you are looking for regarding OEMs?
<samueldr>
GPL compliance
<samueldr>
to get the dang kernels
<samueldr>
(though if I was able to dream, I'd ask for the source of every little bits)
<eyJhb>
*saueldr*: Gime me all da code
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<__monty__>
Fwiw, profs are usually pretty open to interesting communication. Having an education is not a prerequisite.
<eyJhb>
Yeah, that was the way I was headed
<eyJhb>
I am not sure if I know anyone directly, that have such contacts. But I am sure we have some in our mobile department
<eyJhb>
But, if you have any local university, asking around can help.. nvm. covid-19, DO NOT DO THAT
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<eyJhb>
samueldr: I have asked some, maybe they know someone
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<ashkitten>
__monty__: i'm positive i'm not confusing gitlab.com with anything
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<samueldr>
__monty__: that was not my point, my point was that I don't have the (human) network established :)
<eyJhb>
You have us <3
<samueldr>
yeah
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<__monty__>
samueldr: Not sure what you think my point was. It was that it's not hard to start such a network if you want to. Some people think of academia as an Ivory Tower but that's usually not the case.
<eyJhb>
__monty__: some people in academia does as welll
<joepie91>
the ivory tower complaint isn't about access to profs
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<samueldr>
__monty__: if I had been to said university, I'd have contacts already, so it would be a much more frictionless activity, now I have to first, find where to find out about the professors, then figure out a way to introduce myself, then I'm already tired beyond thinking other steps and I just want to curl into a ball
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<__monty__>
That's fine. It's just *an* option, rather than "not even an option."
<eyJhb>
samueldr: curling up into a ball is one way of introducing yourself :p
<pie_>
add some hardwre attestation and you cant even get root properly
<samueldr>
pretty locked down, but bugs do happen
<samueldr>
or backdoors from manufacturers
<pie_>
yes, but with increasing rarity?
<samueldr>
I wouldn't say so
<pie_>
the usual push pull between platforms users and companies
<pie_>
everybody against eachother and the users dont have the coherence to exercise their power
<samueldr>
well that xkcd will need to be reworked into some ways to show that you don't even own the keys anymore
<pie_>
the xkcd doesnt apply because apps have isolation from eachother?
<pie_>
i fear the day we have actually secure systems
<samueldr>
apps don't exactly have isolation, they have _some_
<samueldr>
anyways, that's just tiring
<pie_>
also i kind of forgot youre probably a bit of an expert on this at this point :)
<samueldr>
not exactly about the in-depth of the android platform
<samueldr>
my work is to use only Linux, not the full android stack
<pie_>
yeah, youre preoccupied with the actual linux stuff
<pie_>
right
<samueldr>
still I keep tabs
<pie_>
maybe if we get a decent free phone some day
<pie_>
but that will just be too expensive and somehow get undermined no? :P
<pie_>
im such an optimist
<samueldr>
probably not
<samueldr>
depending on where you can draw some kind of line and abstract where you care the freedoms are
<samueldr>
full free including modem, this'll be a tall order
<pie_>
then again, why would anyone care, it cant run any of the other ecosystems properly so noone will switch except the power users maybe
<samueldr>
but free enough to be pragmatically useful and inexpensive, it's pretty much there
<samueldr>
free as in tinkering
<samueldr>
which is the third free
<samueldr>
that people so often ignore
<pie_>
mm
<samueldr>
ah, right agency
<samueldr>
user-agency
<samueldr>
because even if it's fully FLOSS, you could be locked from agency
<samueldr>
imagine a fully FLOSS phone that locks some early boot component from the user's view
<samueldr>
so the user cannot change this part
<pie_>
gotta love platform lock-in
<samueldr>
that's a thing that exists in the librem, the DDR4 training blobs, while not useful to change, are hidden away as they are a binary blob
<pie_>
its great for the economy though i guess
<samueldr>
so it's (1) not even FLOSS even though it has the "RYF" tag (worthless)
<samueldr>
and (2) if, or rather, when a liberated version of the program exists, there is no way to use it
<pie_>
at l least thats a limited part of the OS though
<samueldr>
at the root of the trust of the device!
<samueldr>
the first thing that executes is a binary blob!
<samueldr>
that you can't even inspect!
<ashkitten>
the only thing android has over linux at this point is being optimized for the devices it runs on, in terms of interface and applications
<samueldr>
ashkitten: only, but... quite a lot!
<ashkitten>
yeah
<ashkitten>
but that's fixable
<pie_>
so
<ashkitten>
and people are increasingly working on it, especially with devices like the pinephone that run linux natively
<pie_>
you have to admit that stuff liek the google attestation apis and idk do solve some problems are completely opposing to having a properly free system
<samueldr>
yes
<pie_>
and people want those problems solved
<samueldr>
but that in itself, as google proves, does not require the user to be robbed of their agency
<pie_>
oh?
<pie_>
im being robbed of my agency right now by not being able to run snapchat in a vm lol
<samueldr>
my thought about that is that as a shortcut, often the devices end up completely locked down from the boot
<samueldr>
google still explicitly allows you to unlock the device and flash custom roms
<samueldr>
(on their hardware)
<pie_>
hm
<ashkitten>
for now
<samueldr>
and in addition, not found on most other, you can enroll your own keys
<samueldr>
ashkitten: sure, but you can say "for now" for EVERY argument
<pie_>
(im not actually sure where its going wrong but i cant seem to get the play store working, and presumably snapchat depends on those services)
<samueldr>
so currently google has a good track record of SHOWING how to do it right