gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
<infinisil> I have this command: du --human-readable --max-depth=1 /nix/store --exclude /nix/store/.links | sort --human-numeric-sort
<infinisil> But I wish there was an "online" sort command which uses the tty to continually refresh the result with new entries
<infinisil> Would give you an idea of what's big before it finishes
<samueldr> I guess ncdu could be modified to show the results live
<infinisil> Anything can be modified to do anything with enough modifications :P
<samueldr> I meant the base is there for a TUI
<infinisil> Ah yea
<samueldr> and it already does most of the work
<samueldr> like, you probably "only" need to hook up the UI function to refresh during a scan
<samueldr> (might not be trivial!)
<infinisil> Good point yeah, doesn't sound like it would be too hard
<Ashy> infinisil: run the whole command in watch?
<infinisil> Ashy: Not straightforward but that might work
<Ashy> i've been doing a bunch of "data science" scripting recently where i dump copious logs into a text file and just use watch and ripgrep to monitor the script during the multi hour runs
<infinisil> Ah yeah, pipe to tmp file and watch the sort of it
<infinisil> That's pretty simple actually
<Ashy> yeah it's a nice approach
<infinisil> Ashy: From a complexity perspective it's like O(n) worse than an online sort though :P
<samueldr> that law about headlines ending with a question mark
<gchristensen> samueldr: the answer is yes they could but
<gchristensen> they have to write code to handle every underlying FS uniquely to do it
<infinisil> Ashy: Though if the sort is so much faster than the size counting then it doesn't really matter
<infinisil> Well, the biggest store path so far is nerdfonts..
<samueldr> my ncdu is still rolling, well, spinning the rust off the hard drive
<gchristensen> samueldr: I guess if you mean "can" asin do they today, the answer is no :P if the "can" ie: is it possible, the answer is yes as long as they sniff the underlying FS and behave appropriately
<samueldr> gotcha
<samueldr> no :)
<gchristensen> :D
<gchristensen> the issue they find where an fsync can fail but then reading that block succeeds b/c it is in the page cache is ... *scary*
<samueldr> cache is hard
<samueldr> like, are you sure it's not only the cache?
<gchristensen> yea... ... and the way that uniquely screws up crash recovery processes is a delight
<infinisil> Oh my lod
<infinisil> Oh my lord
<infinisil> There's a 100GB store path
<samueldr> oh neat!
* bqv !!!!!
<samueldr> what is it?
<infinisil> Um, "source"
<infinisil> Lemme dig into it
<bqv> :|
<samueldr> so pretty much anything fetch'd by Nixpkgs :D
<gchristensen> libguestfs
<samueldr> see, bqv, you couldn't even hold 3 sources
<bqv> :(
<gchristensen> -appliance
<infinisil> Oh lol, never mind, it was `watch` being deceiving
<gchristensen> Nix doesn't handle sparse files and libguestfs-appliance really throws it for a loop
<infinisil> My whole *store* is 100GB, and it printed that at the top, and watch didn't update the thing on the right
* ashkitten accidentally presses alt+any, closes firefox
<bqv> You have an actual any key?
<bqv> So when it says press any key…
<infinisil> But yeah, biggest store path for me is nerd fonts with 2.7GB
<ashkitten> bqv: yes
<infinisil> Man I got excited for that 100GB store path
<bqv> pkgs.topgear-box-set
<samueldr> oh
<samueldr> less exciting
<gchristensen> nice
<samueldr> srv has artifacts and source to lineageos things I was hacking on a few months back
<Ashy> so far the most reliable way i've found to manage the nix store size has been to buy larger ssds
<Ashy> the best thing about it is that it's the future and they keep getting larger, cheaper and faster
<samueldr> as source does
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<bqv> Heh
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<Church-> Well think I finally figured out how to generate a config file from nix lang. Took long enough.
<Church-> Think I can use this for my logg agg module too
* colemickens got matrix tshirts today :)
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<philipp[m]1> There are nice matrix shirts?
<hexa-> better to ask that in #matrix
<philipp[m]1> But I want to ask colemickens
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<philipp[m]1> Also don't go to #matrix:matrix.org. It's a silly place.
<colemickens> Hm. I can't offer a review yet, I was just excited to receive them after lots of shipping delays. I got them from their official store.
<philipp[m]1> Ah, so just the black ones with the white [matrix] logo? Can't say that I'm a big fan of those design-wise. But nice for you, that it finally worked out.
<__monty__> They should do long leather coats with that logo.
<philipp[m]1> lol
<philipp[m]1> Maybe also guns?
<eyJhb> philipp[m]1: MERICA' ?
<eyJhb> My hands and neck are total shit today... Going to be a long one
<philipp[m]1> Oh no... let's not go there already in the morning ^^
<eyJhb> MERICA part?
<philipp[m]1> MERICA gun politics. I just wanted to joke about the matrix movies.
<eyJhb> But.. But.. MERICA philipp[m]1
<philipp[m]1> Pssssh! They are sleeping right now. Let us just have peace for a few more hours.
<eyJhb> philipp[m]1: you can got cat images instead?
<eyJhb> get*
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<philipp[m]1> Much better!
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<bqv> https://github.com/ClementTsang/bottom I quite wanna try this
<bqv> Nix really raises the barrier to entry of trying random software
<srk> also really lowers for lots of sw already packaged :)
<bqv> Totally
<philipp[m]1> Are there still people using the hook that autoinstalls anything you type into a shell?
<Arahael> I cheat and use flatpak.
<philipp[m]1> same, but with steam-run.
<bqv> I just wish I had an imperative hacky version of nix that didn't require tofu
<bqv> For the quick stuff
<bqv> I can formalise later
<bqv> Got bottom working with naersk, after some tofu dances
<Arahael> tofu?
<bqv> Yeah you know, the meat substitute
<philipp[m]1> trust on first use
<bqv> ,tofu
<{^_^}> To get a sha256 hash of a new source, you can use the Trust On First Use model: use probably-wrong hash (for example: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000) then replace it with the correct hash Nix expected. See: tofu-vim
<Arahael> Ah... Because I had that for dinner. :)
<Arahael> Ah, yes, that's fair enough.
<bqv> hope you took small bytes
<eyJhb> philipp[m]1: rather old images of her however
<Arahael> bqv: I definitely did. :) Maximum sauce. :)
<eyJhb> Reminds me I should find some breakfast as well
<bqv> :D
<bqv> anyone ever considered changing the user-based model-ness of linux?
<bqv> at least, for nonsystem users
<bqv> seems superfluous when there's guaranteed only one user, and is kinda restrictive cause it seems sketchy having user owned files outside the home directory
<philipp[m]1> eyJhb: Oh, that is your cat? Such a beauty!
<bqv> then again, i guess that's what user services are for
* bqv sigh
<Ashy> bqv: android and ios are basically that
<bqv> yeah, that's a great point
<bqv> wtb that, but on desktop
<Ashy> a single human user but lots of different isolated apps that you can barely trust
<Ashy> chromebook? :P
* bqv shivers
<Ashy> haha
<bqv> ah awesome, i manged to rebuild and switch my system just in time for the daily gc. now when i migrate my store, it'll be lean and mean!
<gchristensen> adisbladis: apparently Go's crypto/ed25519 doesn't match rfc8032?
<__monty__> By accident or intentionally?
<gchristensen> dunno
<Valodim> what makes you say that?
<Valodim> it uses a different private key representation, and considers the bare scalar as seed for it. I don't know any other implementations that do that, but the "seed" part is more common
<Valodim> e.g. in libsodium
<gchristensen> gotcha
<gchristensen> maybe that is it
<Valodim> huh. so it's certainly intended to be compatible, and I would be extremely surprised if its signatures were incompatible in general with other implementations and noone ever noticed :D
<eyJhb> philipp[m]1: yes! Little idiot Elsa. And thanks!
<eyJhb> Have anybody put NixOS into their car?
<eyJhb> Considering picking up my car project again
<__monty__> "Just rollback to fix your problem. No don't roll baaaaack! 😱"
<Valodim> `nixcar-rebuild switch`
<__monty__> "Why is ed25519 big endian though?" Isn't the answer always network-endianness? Since you might want to verify data received over a network before doing anything else to it?
<bqv> how long does btrfs send/receive normally take?
<bqv> (would it be more efficient to just rsync or something?)
<gchristensen> usually no
<gchristensen> the FS knows better than rsync and has to do significantly less work than rsync would
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<bqv> fair enough :) ty
<bqv> it just seems to be going at a crawl, it's only done 2G so far, but i guess that's just HDD slowness
<gchristensen> maybe btrfs has a `zpool iostat` equiv.
<gchristensen> https://coviddeathtoll.us/ whew
<bqv> i'm judging based on df -m and/or iotop
<bqv> i started at :42, and it's managed ~3200MB, nix store i'd estimate is around 70000MB, so 32/7000, maybe half a percent in 15 minutes. assuming constant speed, that extrapolates to around 50 hours. yikes
<bqv> but it's clearly not constant speed because it's nearly done double that since i started typing
<bqv> i should have run this through pv...
<gchristensen> possibly a lot of seeking
<bqv> yeah
<__monty__> 3200/70000 = 32/700 ~= 1/21 ~= 5%
<bqv> yeah, i just spotted that too
<bqv> i added an extra 0
<bqv> 5 hours :)
<bqv> worst case
<infinisil> gchristensen: I don't doubt there are a lot of fatalities, but that site could really use some sources, considering all the misinformation that's out there
<gchristensen> the data comes from only the most reputable source
<gchristensen> ata is sourced from Johns Hopkins CSSE
<gchristensen> hrm the API doesn't seem to be correct anymore
<eyJhb> Would be cool with NixCar :p
<eyJhb> But would be a RPi and NixOS with a touch screen
<eyJhb> I however need a 3d printer and skills to get the Pi to actually be fastent to the car
<infinisil> gchristensen: Hm that API seems to show cases not deaths
<infinisil> curl https://api.covid19api.com/total/dayone/country/us/status/deaths | jq '[ .[].Cases ] | add' => 22000043
<infinisil> That's a lot..
<gchristensen> that isn't right either
<gchristensen> we've had 4,429,770 confirmed cases according to john hopkins
<infinisil> Ohh, it's the total duh
<infinisil> I just summed up totals
<infinisil> Yeah the last number from that API is 295630 which matches the website
<gchristensen> I pinged their team to see if they know something is wrong
<bqv> it's just occured to me that nixos has the same release schedule as windows...
<__monty__> That's our embrace. Time to extend.
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<bqv> ha
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* __monty__ plays the compiler compiling waiting game on decade old hardware :'(
<gchristensen> this day is going to be rough. 8:30am and it is already uncomfortably warm and humid, and it still has 10° to rise
<joepie91> turns out that my cheapo android actually makes pretty good pictures
<__monty__> Is personal climate control the reason you got the freezer, gchristensen? : )
<gchristensen> haha, __monty__, no actually it makes it worse! usually no a hot day like today I can use the whole-house fan to suck cooler air from my basement in to the rest of the house -- but the freezer warms up the basement
<__monty__> o.O That must be some freezer.
<__monty__> Weren't you talking about snowstorms nary a month or two ago?
<gchristensen> it is just a normal freezer, but a 1-2° rise makes a difference. and, yeah, snow from November 1 to early April is totally normal
<__monty__> Such an extreme climate.
<infinisil> __monty__: The (non-)paradox of freezers: Opening them up increases the heat
<__monty__> Maybe you can pick up the tropic regime?
<__monty__> infinisil: Oh, I did mean vampire-style, this is where I sleep now, freezer use.
<infinisil> Ah I see haha
<__monty__> I am well-versed in basic thermodynamics and perpetually confused about non-basic thermodynamics.
<infinisil> Probably about the same for me :)
<philipp[m]1> Oh great. 18 covid-19 infected people in a bar near my home and 41 people that were there at the point when the infections probably happened could not be found.
<bqv> hm. seems it's bigger than my guess of 70G
<__monty__> bqv: You probably want `btrfs fi usage` rather than du/df.
<bqv> oh, hm. well that's not disagreeing
<bqv> at least on the recieveing end
<bqv> the sending end, i can't use that to measure, because it's just a subvolume
<bqv> oh, it's done! 83G
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<bqv> Oh My God
<bqv> it's so fast!!
<bqv> this is what SSDs are like?!
<gchristensen> welcome to the future, bqv :)
<bqv> it booted up in ..seconds..
<bqv> unbelievable
<srhb> bqv: I remember that feeling :D
<eyJhb> bqv: what SSD have you aquired?
<bqv> oh no, i always had one, i just never really used it
<bqv> cause i was scared of the flash lifespan
<bqv> so i put windows on it, lol
<gchristensen> lol
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<philipp[m]1> Maybe we should do seminars about ssd lifespan anxiety?
<Church-> bqv: Now just wait till we get optane :)
<bqv> huh, sounds neat
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<makefu> philipp[m]1: please do! i have an open point at work which is "how fast do SSDs have bit errors when they are not connected to power"
<makefu> there do not seem to be any reliable sources, some say "never", other say "can happen within one month"
<makefu> i actually thought about performing my own long-term tests (6 months, 12 months, 2 years, 3 years, 5 years) and publish my own papers and become famous at last
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<bqv> at a guess, what's the speed difference R/W between HDD and SATA-SSD?
<bqv> my HDD i think was peaking around 20MB/s reads for btrfs send?
<eyJhb> Depends on the brand bqv , etc
<bqv> hmm
<bqv> i have it on pcpartpicker i guess
<eyJhb> You could just run a test I guess?
<eyJhb> Just don't do zeros
<eyJhb> Then it just cheats :p
<bqv> hmm, well hdd on amazon reports 130MB/s reads and 441MB/s writes. ssd anywhere up to like 550MB/s either way
<eyJhb> bqv: generally SSDs are just nice. I only have HDDs in my server for storage
<eyJhb> No need for movies to be on SSDs. Unless it is some oversampled 4k :p
<gchristensen> back at Tumblr we had these sweet Virident flash cards, hot dog they were a delight: https://www.storagereview.com/review/virident-flashmax-ii-mlc-application-accelerator-review-2-2tb except ours were 4tb and 8tb
<eyJhb> gchristensen: gib.
<gchristensen> gib?
<eyJhb> Basically give, just.. You know, idiot speak :p
<eyJhb> NVMe is one of the main reasons I might want to switch laptop
<gchristensen> ah
<eyJhb> As well as Thunderbolt for eGPUs
<gchristensen> I wanted one but I there was no chance I could have gotten one of the kernel modules to work
<infinisil> Loving my nvme, speeeeeed
<eyJhb> infinisil: tease.
<eyJhb> :P
<eyJhb> gchristensen: what kernel module?
<eyJhb> If I read that correctly
<gchristensen> s/one of// it required special kernel support
<eyJhb> NVMe?
<gchristensen> no no
<eyJhb> Also, s/I// ?
<gchristensen> yeah I'm bad at sentences
<gchristensen> *really* special software and kernel modules unique to this device
<eyJhb> I am the baddesesesest at them gchristensen
<eyJhb> Which device was it?
<gchristensen> the Virident flash
<eyJhb> The Tumbl thingies?
<eyJhb> Ahh
<eyJhb> Tumblr*
<gchristensen> yeah
<eyJhb> Would have been nice yeah
<eyJhb> But.. Didn't they work at Tumblr, which ran NixOS?
<eyJhb> Or was that only SOME?
<gchristensen> most all of the infra was centos. there were a couple of experimental nixos boxes
<gchristensen> no not centos, scientific linux lol
<eyJhb> Whyyy?
<eyJhb> :p
<eyJhb> That does not sound nice
<gchristensen> Because (tm)
<eyJhb> Ah, I see
<eyJhb> :P
<eyJhb> I should really work on managing my hosts with MOPRH, Nixus ( infinisil ) or NixOps
<__monty__> Why not krops?
<gchristensen> why or, and not and? ;)
<eyJhb> gchristensen: one for each host?
<eyJhb> __monty__: forgot about it :p
<gchristensen> no no, use all of them for all the hosts, together
<eyJhb> :( That does not sound nice
<eyJhb> Also, loving this graph - https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/status-paa-coronavirus-lige-nu `Antal dødsfald registreret af myndighederne i alt
<eyJhb> Mouseover shows the date, not the count
<eyJhb> Nvm
<eyJhb> I am blind
<eyJhb> Wish I could delete messages sometimes
<eyJhb> But instead samueldr ensures my stupidity lives on forever :p
<drakonis> he he he
<eyJhb> Any dinner ideas?
<bqv> eyJhb: as ever, i'd love to use morph or nixus, but flakes :(
<bqv> i at least made an issue for srhb, and i had a pr at one point for infinisil
<bqv> (non functional draft pr, that is)
<srhb> bqv: thank you, I did see the issue. I don't know when we will have time to pursue it, but it's definitely something we want to do. :)
<eyJhb> srhb: how do you guys feel about tidying of tho Go code for a PR?
<srhb> I think we have more bandwidth for non-functional improvements than functional ones at the moment, to be honest. :)
<bqv> np
<colemickens> don't most of them boil down to build drv, copy output, run switch-to-config?
<colemickens> every time I try to adopt one I find an aspect I don't like and I wind up back in my script that just does that ^
<srhb> Yeah, absolutely.
<bqv> the parts i'm actively interested in is managing remote systems
<bqv> because that doesn't quite boil down to `nix <something>`
<srhb> morph makes a conscious choice to be very close to that. I think krops too?
<bqv> and a few also have some level of secrets management
<srhb> Right.
<srhb> But yes, it's all just ergonomics around leveraging nix.
<bqv> i was at one point trying to set up my own secrets management model but if something existed that supported flakes and wasn't unpalatable i'd just adopt that
<infinisil> colemickens: With nixus I have some other features that are a bit special
<srhb> Need to check out sops still. :)
<bqv> woah, i just got a desktop notification, i didn't know i could get those
<colemickens> bqv, have you seen sops-nix? I need to wait for the next iteration but it looks like everything I've wanted in secret management.
<srhb> Ah sorry, didn't mean to reduce nixus in any way.
<colemickens> infinisil: I'm curious! I had looked a while back but I don't think I ever actually kicked the tires on it.
<infinisil> No offense at all taken :)
<bqv> colemickens: i have not! this seems interesting.
<infinisil> colemickens: It could really use more docs, and it's really experimental
<colemickens> bqv: it is... going to be a really good UX story for cloud deployments + secrets
<infinisil> So I'm not sure if I should even recommend people to try it
<bqv> this is fantastic actually
<bqv> i might fiddle with it right now
<colemickens> bqv: yea, for real, if you want a full e2e demo on Azure...
<colemickens> it relies on lots of in-progress pieces but I know a guy.
<colemickens> Ooh, someone here wanted to get gpg working in initrd for one-stop unlocking which would work out well with zfs/luks as well as sops-nix too. That would be fun to get working if anyone wants to try to hack on that this week.
<philipp[m]1> I'm at least very interested in trying to integrate zfs into the luks setup.
<bqv> man, so many cool things, so little time
<philipp[m]1> Right now, even just unlocking zfs via ssh is kinda hacky.
<colemickens> bqv: oh btw, sops getting started instructions are... bad, I'm trying to be nice
<philipp[m]1> (You unlock the filesystem and kill the job that was already spawned...)
<bqv> heh. fair enough.
<colemickens> bqv: I recommend writing a `.sops.yaml` to declare what keys to use for new secrets, not using `-i` on sops and then the only commands you'll need is `sops -e orig >orig.enc` and `sops -d orig.enc > orig` more or less.
<colemickens> (`-i` is in place but it will clobber in place on error, apparently)
<bqv> gotcha
<philipp[m]1> colemickens: I've got some time on my hands on thursday. Want to have a shot at it then?
<eyJhb> Ohh I am so sure what I just made to eat will taste like, shit
<bqv> anyone have tips for locating a de-googled phone?
<bqv> i've lost mine
<bqv> in the last hour
<lassulus> Can you ssh to it?
<bqv> it's still in the house, cause all my bluetooth devices connect
<bqv> but ringing doesn't help me hear it
<bqv> i don't think it has an ssh server
<bqv> i can ping it, probably
<bqv> hm, yeah, router says it's here too
<drakonis> can you call the phone?
<bqv> now bluetooth isn't connecting, but it's still connected to the internet
<bqv> i've rung it several times
<bqv> i can't hear where it is
<drakonis> hm
<drakonis> aight
<bqv> this is ridiculous
<__monty__> And you're positive the device you're looking for isn't the device you're ringing the device you're looking for with?
<bqv> bleh, nevermind, found it. it had fallen behind my seat in the car
<bqv> no idea how
<bqv> i was ringing the right device, for sure
<__monty__> Nvm, was a "the glasses are on your head" style joke : )
<bqv> oh, haha, sorry
<bqv> bit flustered
<bqv> misread
<bqv> microsoft teams is down
<bqv> hm
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<bkv> sorry, pc's crashing again
* bkv sighs
<bkv> guess it's not the hard drive that's the issue
<bkv> replacing the rest of the machine anyway
<infinisil> I'm also having some crashes occasionally
<infinisil> Well, freezes rather
<infinisil> (but then I need to force shutdown)
<infinisil> This is on an older nixos-unstable version though, so I should probably just update if it's too annoying
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<bqv> meh, this isn't a nixos thing. this is a "my pc likes to have hourly hardware faults" thing
<bqv> it's been lowkey for years now, but it's got to the point where it's ridiculous now
<bqv> it makes doing things next-to impossible
<bqv> because it likes to crash during git operations, so not even version control can save me
<infinisil> A hardware upgrade/replacement sounds in order then
<__monty__> Any jq ninjas in here?
<__monty__> I'd like to get a field from all the objects where a different field (dictionary) is equal.
<infinisil> equal to what
<bqv> sounds a bit involved for jq
<infinisil> bqv: jq is like a full programming language, it can do pretty much everything!
<gchristensen> yeah so is assembly but it doesn't mean it is a good idea :P
<bqv> :D
<infinisil> Heh
<__monty__> infinisil: List of objects with ids and hashes. I want to find at least two objects with equal hashes but different ids.
<cransom> the jq-proponents were so preocupied with whether or not they could they didn't stop to think if they should.
<__monty__> TIL, JSON strings are a superset of Javascript strings.
<samueldr> it *is* JavaScript object notation after all
<infinisil> __monty__: group_by(.hash) and select(length > 1)
<infinisil> Plus some glue, should do it
<__monty__> samueldr: Yeah, which is why I'd assume equal string literals.
<samueldr> other than the delimiters being limited to ", what other changes is there?
<__monty__> LINE SEPARATOR and PARAGRAPH SEPARATOR are valid characters in JSON strings but not Javascript (as of ECMAScript 5.1).
<__monty__> infinisil: Could that be matching objects that lack the hash field as well?
<samueldr> ah, yeah, forgot about new javascript definitions
<infinisil> Try it out? :)
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<infinisil> I often just do `echo 'some json' | jq 'some filter'` to see how jq behaves
<genevino> same
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<gchristensen> it is so gross.
<genevino> but is it?
<genevino> like i mean, GROSS?
<gchristensen> 30°C and 66% humidity, with an indoor temperature of 29°C
<genevino> 20% here
<infinisil> It just hailed here like 15 minutes ago
<infinisil> With rain
<infinisil> But now it's back to being hot already
<infinisil> I was really hoping for a day-long rain
<__monty__> infinisil: Thanks, was lacking some map()s.
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<eyJhb> Yup, that tasted like I might throw up.
<eyJhb> gchristensen: that does not sound nice
<infinisil> __monty__: What's the expression you ended up with?
<__monty__> infinisil: map(select(.data.hash !=null)) | group_by(.data.hash) | map(select(length > 1))
<infinisil> Nice
<colemickens> > colemickens: I've got some time on my hands on thursday. Want to have a shot at it then?
<colemickens> Yes!
<{^_^}> error: syntax error, unexpected THEN, expecting ')', at (string):318:84
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<ashkitten> i'd really just like it to rain all day constantly forever
<__monty__> Do you live in a desert?
<ashkitten> no, i live in seattle
<ashkitten> it doesn't rain much here
<__monty__> Isn't that close to Niagara? If you got a home built into the cliff you could have the impression of constant rain.
<colemickens> fortunately seattle is westcoast, best coast. Niagra is on the east coast, NY area.
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<ashkitten> 1) no, 2) isn't that a national park
<samueldr> the USA is only the west coast of the niagara, and the east coast of the niagara now
<__monty__> Don't think #2 matters with trump in office.
<bqv> ok, this namespacing thing is gonna need some work...
<ashkitten> __monty__: i dont think he cares about changing up the national park services
<__monty__> I meant he could probably be persuaded with money.
<ashkitten> he also doesn't really have direct control over national park services
<__monty__> Anyway, modulo non-existent geographic knowledge my point stands.
<ashkitten> i'm not sure it does, but thanks for the suggestion
<__monty__> Living under a waterfall was just a humorous suggestion intended to lighten the mood. The original statement sounded kinda dark.
<ashkitten> oh
<ashkitten> i like rain
<ashkitten> it'd be nice to just live in a place where it rains forever
<samueldr> isn't there a moon of some faraway planet in our solar system where it constantly rains methane?
<samueldr> hey there, don't get picky on _what's_ the rain's made from now
<ashkitten> i mean, water would be preferable
<Church-> ashkitten: Here herr
<Church-> here*
<Church-> Kinda envious of my friend in Japan
<Church-> Rainy season rn
<Church-> Got about half a week of rain to look forward to
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<colemickens> so, ui.com (ubiquiti) just let me reset my password without entering or disabling 2FA
<colemickens> fortunately the 2FA is still on... but uh, what. also, oops, where's my 2fa secret :o
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<cransom> i just miss living in a climate where an afternoon rain shower meant it would cool off for a few hours. 'round here, it thunderstorms for 30 minutes while staying hot, and somehow more humid.
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<gchristensen> cransom: right? FL was like that ...
<cransom> NC is like that too.
<eyJhb> I have no clue, what PewDiePie makes on YT anymore
<__monty__> As in money or content?
<eyJhb> Content
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<__monty__> Did he ever produce content other than streaming games?
<philipp[m]1> I think he got his viewers to send him memes and talked about them.
<ashkitten> if you count paying some people to hold up signs with hate speech as "content"
<samueldr> hot take: content can be bad
<ashkitten> yes
<ashkitten> clearly
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<eyJhb> Yeah, he started streaming which was OK I guess, but now it just seems like a weird cult channel
<ashkitten> everyone i've met who's defensive of him seems to be so in a very culty emotional way yeah
<ashkitten> imagine thinking someone who does shit like that is an okay dude, because he fist bumps his camera and it makes you feel like you know him
<infinisil> If I may recommend a less-known Let's Player I'm enjoying a lot recently: https://www.youtube.com/user/OlexaKid64
<eyJhb> Even back in the day, it was very cult like. I had a girlfriend waaay back (okay, 6-7 years ago), who was waaay too much into him
<ashkitten> parasocial relationships are a real issue
<eyJhb> Looks cool infinisil :D
<ashkitten> also like, if i actually considered someone a friend and then found out they paid some people to hold up signs saying "death to all jews", i wouldn't be friends with them anymore
<ashkitten> so i really don't get how people can defend him unless they also hold that belief
<eyJhb> Did he actually pay them?
<ashkitten> yes
<ashkitten> afaik he hired some people on a gig app to hold up those signs
<eyJhb> `These include swastikas drawn by a fan and footage of two Indians he paid to hold up a sign which read "death to all Jews."
<eyJhb> `
<eyJhb> Also, why the F was he part of Disney?
<ashkitten> idk, disney was trying to get into the youtube crowd at some point
<eyJhb> Weird
<eyJhb> Never really liked pewdiepie anyways, it is just so weird
<eyJhb> And all the react videoes
<ashkitten> maybe corporations thought someone who is popular on a video site is popular for good reasons
<eyJhb> The worst I have ever seen, was when they put him into SP
<ashkitten> or just that they could make money off of his popularity
<ashkitten> i don't know what SP is
<eyJhb> South Park, sorry ashkitten
<ashkitten> oh
<eyJhb> Which might not be to your liking as well?
<__monty__> Don't think I've ever even seen a video of his.
<eyJhb> Ohh fuck, now YouTube recommend his videos for me...
<eyJhb> __monty__: luucky
<ashkitten> eh i dont really know enough about south park to have an opinion
<ashkitten> i wouldn't watch it
<infinisil> I'm a fan of chill, relaxed videos
<infinisil> And he is totally not that
<infinisil> most let's players & co. aren't actually
<infinisil> It's hard to find calm people imo
<infinisil> (which is why I suggested one above :))
<eyJhb> ashkitten: some is good, some is not as good. But you have to enjoy some dark humor...
<eyJhb> infinisil: true. The worst I have seen, was stockphotos every 10 secs
<__monty__> infinisil: You should watch code streams, like Kmett's. Super calm : >
<eyJhb> I would be too scared to do code streams
<infinisil> __monty__: Eh, I don't enjoy code streams very much tbh
<eyJhb> Suddenly all my passwords are public
<infinisil> It does need to be interesting and relaxing for me to watch something, and code streams aren't that for me
<infinisil> Usually at least
<__monty__> I get it. Fwiw, it's more talk about design and algorithms and papers than writing code. But watching someone code for 4+h is definitely not for everyone : )
<eyJhb> infinisil: what about games done quick events?
<eyJhb> Those are chiiiill :D
<infinisil> eyJhb: I have watched a couple of those :)
<infinisil> I like them usually (if they're not *too* long)
<eyJhb> I quite enjoy them, but really depends on the speaker
<infinisil> Oh yeah that too
<eyJhb> 3-4 hours is my max :p
<infinisil> Oh that's much lower for me, maybe 20-30 minutes at most (if it's longer I usually just skip ahead)
<__monty__> I've been watching strangeloop recordings.
<__monty__> Do watch them at at least 1.5x.
<eyJhb> Also, anyone besides me that stores a butt load of things in things like these? https://www.harald-nyborg.dk/media/cache/product_fullsize/9950_486153.jpg . I might have too many
<eyJhb> infinisil: that is quite short then
<eyJhb> Then you get glitched runs and small weird games :p
<__monty__> Are you asking whether anyone else uses boxes?
<eyJhb> __monty__: excessive amounts of boxes
<infinisil> eyJhb: I can confidently say that I *don't* do that
<__monty__> eyJhb: You just need bigger boxes to store your boxes.
<eyJhb> I think before my GF "moved in", I had 81 on shelves, + extras
<infinisil> Holy
<__monty__> Ok, that's a lot of boxes.
<infinisil> I have like, 0
<eyJhb> Just had a bunch of bookcases
<eyJhb> I still have a BUNCH, but reduced
<eyJhb> infinisil: why not!
<eyJhb> ?*
<infinisil> Don't need any, why would I put stuff in boxes when I have drawers
<eyJhb> OHHH
<eyJhb> Those are mutally exclusive
<eyJhb> I have boxes in my drawers to seperate things
<infinisil> s/are/are not/ ?
<eyJhb> The few I have left - https://imgur.com/a/QwFEO7F
<eyJhb> Are not*
<eyJhb> Yes, sorry
<infinisil> That looks tide
<infinisil> tidy
<eyJhb> I just enjoy packing them by category. Must of that are tools
<eyJhb> And PC stuff I guess
<infinisil> I guess I don't have a lot of stuff generally
<eyJhb> I feel like most of my stuff is tools which take quite some space, and then some hardware as well. But if I actually had a closet, I could have filled it up better, and not waste too much space (maybe)
<eyJhb> By choice infinisil ?
<samueldr> eyJhb: you're lacking labeling
<infinisil> I'm not afraid of throwing away old stuff I don't need anymore
<eyJhb> I actually do have a labelmaker, but I just go by what I have on top. Then I know what is in the box :D
<eyJhb> infinisil: I get that, but it is just things you cannot get anymore, or small useful things like my army of RPis. Also, 2 jailbroken PS3
<eyJhb> I feel like a hoarder now
<samueldr> some people might say you're hoarding
<samueldr> yeah
<infinisil> Hmm, I wonder what the most exclusive item I have is
<samueldr> though maybe you're not actually depending on what exactly you keep
<samueldr> hoarding is more about when the compulsion leaves the realm of good decisions
<samueldr> like keeping stacks of circulars (paper ads for e.g. grocery stores)
<samueldr> but as with everything, it's not a binary state
<eyJhb> Well, the "some" might be a person living with me. But I am constantly trying to throw things out. And just, yeah some things you can buy again, but being a student it isn't always a option
<eyJhb> Yeah..
<eyJhb> infinisil: I think one of mine is the oscilloscope
<infinisil> I think mine might be my 11x11 rubik's cube :P
<samueldr> I'd argue that hoarding equipment is okay
<samueldr> like my boxes of cables (sorted in ziploc-style bags!)
<eyJhb> Uhh nice, got any images of that infinisil ?
<eyJhb> samueldr: I just use toiletpaper rolls
<eyJhb> Which is the box I get the most hate for. My box with toiletpaper rolls
<eyJhb> But cables are important! I however threw out like.. 5 boxes of cables
<samueldr> eyJhb: I didn't mean individually bagged, but bigger bags per type
<__monty__> That bend radius doesn't sound healthy for cables.
<infinisil> eyJhb: I have a video of me solving it ages ago!
<infinisil> Wait I'll speed it up by like 1000x and upload it
<eyJhb> Depends on the length __monty__ , and the width of them
<eyJhb> For some, not much, others all good
<__monty__> TP roll sounds like too small a radius for even my thinnest cables. Earbud cables maybe?
<eyJhb> __monty__: well, I would say for most of my cables I don't care, but ethernet works fine
<eyJhb> infinisil: GO GO :D
<eyJhb> __monty__: You are French, right?
<__monty__> No.
<eyJhb> DAMN
<eyJhb> IT
<__monty__> Do you over/under at least?
<eyJhb> I need a fucking document with things I need to remember
<__monty__> I do speak some french if that's what you're after.
<eyJhb> Over under?
<samueldr> whether you hang the roll like an animal or not :)
<eyJhb> Is a basic cable
<__monty__> You'd probably have to google for it, not easy to explain if you don't know what it is. Done a lot with audio cables.
<samueldr> that's... wide
<__monty__> I use it to great effect with power cords (the multiple meters kind).
<eyJhb> I do that for cables I have to coil up, but would not make much sense for this
<eyJhb> Here you just grab both ends, and then hold them with one hand, and keep doing that (folding) till it is the sufficient size
<eyJhb> Guessing wide is good
<eyJhb> I can't actually find a cable atm. that is having a hard time
<__monty__> That's a lot better than what I thought you were doing.
<eyJhb> *stuffing table into TP roll* ?
<eyJhb> :p
<eyJhb> cable*
<eyJhb> DAMN IT
<samueldr> turning it around I think
<eyJhb> not tables, they cannot fit.
<eyJhb> Stuff TP rolls into cables?
<samueldr> yes
<eyJhb> I am not the IKEA of cables
<eyJhb> :p
<eyJhb> If.. Anyone understands that
<eyJhb> It is generally weird sawing in IKEA things, because the edges are hard, and the middle is just cardboard
<infinisil> I sped it up 30x
<infinisil> But the original video was already sped up, soo
<samueldr> the quotes are because I want this *exact* string match you dirty rotten AI-driven piece of trash
<eyJhb> infinisil: hard to even see the final result :p How long did it originally take?
<__monty__> Heh, I've been getting that "Learn to Google, newb" message too since tonight.
<infinisil> samueldr is on google's naughty list now
<infinisil> eyJhb: I wish I knew the original speedup, but it has to have been like 1-2 hours
<eyJhb> That is still faster than I can solve the normal ones
<samueldr> this garbage advice is now strewn across half my searches :(
<__monty__> Quite a step up from the 2x2x2.
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<aaronjanse> > Heh, I've been getting that "Learn to Google, newb" message too since tonight.
<aaronjanse> Get wreked. Total noob, exposed as you should, with naive assumptions like search engines needing to return useful results
<{^_^}> error: syntax error, unexpected ',', expecting ')', at (string):318:4
<infinisil> Here's a better one, that's 18 y/o me posing for a "nerdy pic" competition: https://paste.infinisil.com/k473qWVmNU.jpg
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<infinisil> eyJhb: ^
<infinisil> Lol
<eyJhb> infinisil: You haven't cut your hair since, have you?
<eyJhb> Nice, you got a lot of them. AND JAVA! :p
<infinisil> Hehe
<eyJhb> I want to know what code you have in the background :p
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<infinisil> Ohhh hmm
<infinisil> Surprisingly high-res pic, I think I might know what that is actually
<joepie91> infinisil: nice doorstopper on your desk :P
<joepie91> infinisil: ... I only just realized the pi
<infinisil> Hehe
<joepie91> cute :P
<eyJhb> The pi?
<aaronjanse> Props to the nand2tetris book. I use that book to elevate the stand holding my laptop, and I reference the book often when helping friends getting started with the course
<aaronjanse> eyJhb look at the Rubik's cube
<eyJhb> Ah.
<eyJhb> This is why I suck at spot a difference
<joepie91> eyJhb: "including but not limited to" is the phrase, I think :P
<aaronjanse> Lmao. He even points to it
<eyJhb> aaronjanse: hiding in plain sight
<joepie91> oh, it was a request for clarification
<joepie91> also am I lagging again
<joepie91> ping
<eyJhb> pong
<infinisil> Hm I don't think I can find the source code there anymore
<eyJhb> 7 sec delay
<joepie91> hm, okay, that lag isn't too bad
<infinisil> But I think it's from my matura thesis on numerical methods
<joepie91> something something synapse something
<infinisil> I wrote a thing that simulates different numerical methods using Java's BigInts
<aaronjanse> Thesis... at 18?!
* infinisil checks again
<aaronjanse> Lmao
<eyJhb> Isn't it more likely to be 20-22?
<infinisil> Oh yeah I think that was 20 y/o
<eyJhb> Still young
<aaronjanse> Yeah
<eyJhb> I could have managed at 21, but I had a year off
<infinisil> Hm I thought I checked the image tags
<eyJhb> Which sucked
<eyJhb> But it is quite possible infinisil :p
<aaronjanse> Hey, I don't want to interrupt anything, but right now I'm working on Redox + Nix integration. If anyone has any ideas for cool ways to integrate, beyond just using Nix to do simple cross-compiling, I'd love to hear
<infinisil> Create Date : 2014:01:15 21:49:30
<eyJhb> Have a friend who finished hers at 20 I think
<eyJhb> We need a curret age of infinisil !
<aaronjanse> Redox is a plan-9 like operating system written in Rust that supports Unix programs
<aaronjanse> Wow
<infinisil> But my thesis title says 2015-09-17
<eyJhb> current*
<JJJollyjim> aaronjanse: i'm pretty excited by the idea of running nix on redox
<eyJhb> Time traveler. What did you take the photo with?
<JJJollyjim> do you know of any major things in the way of that?
<infinisil> Oh I probably compiled it a year later or so
* aaronjanse is excited, too
<infinisil> and latex updated the date
<colemickens> there was much excited chatter the other day about redoxpkgs
<eyJhb> That would make sense
<JJJollyjim> (i mean the actual store/nix interpreter/whatever on redox, if that wasn't clear)
<aaronjanse> Not really. Nix makes cross-compiling to Redox quite easy. A couple days ago I cross-compiled in-memory sqlite with relative ease
<aaronjanse> > (i mean the actual store/nix interpreter/whatever on redox, if that wasn't clear)
<aaronjanse> Yeah
<{^_^}> error: syntax error, unexpected ',', expecting ')', at (string):318:59
<aaronjanse> I was working on sqlite as a path to Nix itself :-)
<JJJollyjim> sweet
<aaronjanse> Dependencies shouldn't be too tough. The big hurdle will be making Nix's sandbox work on Redox
<aaronjanse> > there was much excited chatter the other day about redoxpkgs
<aaronjanse> Oh cool! :D
<{^_^}> undefined variable 'there' at (string):318:1
<eyJhb> Still amazed about the hair infinisil
<samueldr> aaronjanse: the sandbox isn't _required_ as a first step, is it?
<infinisil> Lol I put some gel in for that pic, usually it's not that weird
<aaronjanse> Oh, I guess you're right! samueldr
<JJJollyjim> ^ it's only a security feature right?
<samueldr> (though it sure is a good thing to have)
<eyJhb> It is a LOT longer in all your pics elsewhere :p
<samueldr> build purity
<aaronjanse> Yeah
<infinisil> eyJhb: Oh I found the code!
<eyJhb> Is it public?
<aaronjanse> JJJollyjim it's also a reproducibility feature
<infinisil> It's in the thesis itself
<JJJollyjim> right
<infinisil> Page um
<samueldr> lol that first page
<infinisil> 50 & 51
<joepie91> infinisil: you actually look a looooot like someone I know, in that pic
<joepie91> now I am admittedly slightly faceblind, but I could probably confuse the two of you in a hurry
<joepie91> :P
<infinisil> Yeah I must've messed up the rendering when doing it again :P
<infinisil> compiling it again
<aaronjanse> Redox has really cool namespaces. It's like chroot but with much more control. I'm considering creating a second, personal overlay for packaging dotfiles with derivations. That way I can support software that wants configs in $HOME without making those configs visible to anything but that process
<aaronjanse> Redox is also very modular. I think NixOS+Redox (as opposed to just Nix+Redox) could be cool
<joepie91> we could call it RedoxOS
<joepie91> wait...
<joepie91> :P
<infinisil> eyJhb: Oh I got the code after all
<infinisil> Like in original form
<infinisil> Smart me apparently added a "CD" folder which contains the whole thing I submitted, untouched
<eyJhb> Your code is not in English! :o
<eyJhb> Sweet :D
<infinisil> The date of the original thesis is 2014-01-29
<eyJhb> So.. You are 26 now?
<infinisil> Which matches the pic date pretty well now :)
<infinisil> eyJhb: 24
<eyJhb> Well, then I guess it is 18 ?
<eyJhb> Or am I mathing wrong
<infinisil> Yeah I guess 18 after all :)
<eyJhb> How the hell did you do that so fast
<eyJhb> Did you skip grades?
<infinisil> Idk, it was standard to finish the matura with a thesis
<infinisil> Nah didn't skip anything
<infinisil> I think I was pretty average age too in my grade
<eyJhb> Just so we agree, we are talking three years at uni, at 18?
<infinisil> That was 4 years, not sure if that can be called uni. I think it's something like Gymnasium in germany
<eyJhb> Ahh
* samueldr has no idea about that school system
<eyJhb> Makes so much better sense then
<infinisil> Alright I think I have exposed myself enough!
<infinisil> I shall be productive now
<samueldr> a bit like "collegial/CEGEP" in Québec (different than in Canada, and both are differen than in the US)
<infinisil> By watching some youtube videos
<eyJhb> Fucking hell, thought you finished bachelors/masters at 18
<eyJhb> I should go to bed...
<infinisil> eyJhb: Ah haha nah
<infinisil> I just finished my bachelor this year
<eyJhb> Me too, this summer
<infinisil> Nice
<eyJhb> Or
<infinisil> eyJhb: What subject?
<eyJhb> I have two reexams. But I have turned in the project etc.
<infinisil> Oh, so almost done :P
<eyJhb> Internet technologies and computer systems. civil engineer degree
<eyJhb> And a bad title... :p
<eyJhb> Wbu?
<infinisil> Neat. Computer science for me
<eyJhb> There are many CS students in Nix things, sometimes one feel a little out of place :p
<infinisil> Hehe I can see that
<samueldr> don't worry, some are drop-outs of the education system :)
<eyJhb> But congrats on the fully bachelor :p - My education is a combination of hardware and software, where we mostly suck at both unless you really spend the time doing either
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<eyJhb> samueldr: that means you will be billionairs!
<samueldr> eyJhb: not by keeping to my values
<samueldr> I'd have to do the bad ideas that are immoral
<eyJhb> The lets settle at millionair?
<eyJhb> Then*
<aaronjanse> > Neat. Computer science for me
<aaronjanse> Ditto. Starting my bachelors this fall. Somehow I only have classes 3 days per week (even though I have a typical class workload), so I'll have lots of free time to build stuff :-)
<{^_^}> undefined variable 'Neat' at (string):318:1
<aaronjanse> {^_^} really does not like my quotes :-(
<eyJhb> Ahh, the joy (maybe) of other unis. No classes at my uni just means, you have to work on your project..
<eyJhb> So 8 to 16 each day
<aaronjanse> ahahaha. Dang. That sucks
<aaronjanse> Welp. I'm gonna have to do fall remotely
<aaronjanse> Just like my last semester of high school
<aaronjanse> I'm gonna have to find some fun Nix project disguised as research to do when I'm an upper-div student
<eyJhb> Well, it is what you pretty much agree to once you start at Aalborg University, it is what it is known for. Problem based learning + groups. So you have a group each semester, where you use 15 ECTS doing these projects. So you learn how to collaborate, handle conflicts, etc..
<infinisil> aaronjanse: Tried that, didn't work though :P
<aaronjanse> infinisil: Awww
<infinisil> (this is what I tried to pass as a bachelors thesis: https://infinisil.com/nix-api-tracker.pdf )
<eyJhb> As long as it had networking, I could pass anything for it. I could have worked on NixOps if I wanted :p But I guess it depends on the Uni...
<aaronjanse> Looks like a great project
<infinisil> Well I had to find a professor willing to mentor me
<aaronjanse> I'll be at Berkeley. Not sure what buzzwords I'd need to prefix a Nix project with to make it considered research
<aaronjanse> "Declarative artificial intelligence: bumping the version of Nixpkgs's tensorflow derivation" /s
<aaronjanse> (but in all seriousness, maybe some Redox+Nix fork thing could be research? Idk)
<colemickens> lmao
<colemickens> I really am getting a kick out of that
<eyJhb> infinisil: small class, and always willing professors or PhD students :p We have some using NixOS :p
<makefu> seems like all the research is in the "we make numbers in nixpkgs go higher" territory
<infinisil> eyJhb: Damn that's awesome
<infinisil> aaronjanse: I mean anything that involves thinking about new stuff can be research really
<aaronjanse> eyJhb: I'm trying to convert Berkeley students to Nix. I might setup a student-run Intro to Nix class
<eyJhb> Have never had a project, that we couldn't do. We also has this one professor, who travels all the time. NEVER in his office (currently going crazy because he cannot travel atm. cause, covid-19). And each time you say something like "Jens, I want to hack this product!", he will go "I know a guy.", without fail.
<eyJhb> aaronjanse: If they are not using Linux beforehand, you will have a bad time
<aaronjanse> infinisil: I really wanna write something like plan9 that uses Nix to support existing Linux software. I might do that this fall
<infinisil> Neat!
<aaronjanse> eyJhb: Oh agreed. I'm recommending Nix, not NixOS. And I'm recommending Nix alongside a more popular package manager to start off
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<samueldr> try to find something more popular than nix here
<aaronjanse> ^^that plan9-like system would be doable with Redox probably. But I don't think that's the direction that Redox maintainers want to go
<aaronjanse> Honestly Nix has changed everything. Ironically though, since I'm now getting involved in Nixpkgs, I spend more time compiling software than I did before. But it's just really nice to know that something will work when I see a `default.nix`
<infinisil> Here it was pretty terrible to find a bachelor thesis project. You could either choose to do one from a predetermined list (from like one department), or you could come up with your own idea and hopelessly ask around if somebody was interested
<eyJhb> Anyways, I will go off now! And eye that muffin, seeing if it will be the midnight snack
<eyJhb> o/
<aaronjanse> Cheers eyJhb!
<aaronjanse> infinisil: dang
<aaronjanse> philipp[m]1 mentioned earlier something about plan9 and namespaces, so I'm hoping to see them here within the next few days
<colemickens> has anyone here seen graham's netboot.nix that uses recursive nix? I don't get it, and I've had this tab open forever hoping it would click. :(
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