<colemickens>
Oh I forgot, discourse snitches on you when you share links, ugh
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<abathur>
bash and I probably need adult supervision
<abathur>
one of the profanity linters should probably be named adult supervision
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<colemickens>
oh. seshat has rust, then node, then more rust inside the node
* colemickens
still doesnt see how the nodejs project builds the inner rust package though?
* colemickens
sees, "neon" is the rust<->js glue
<colemickens>
neon has a slack, if someone wants to put themselves through that pain to get building advice
<ashkitten>
oh, yes
<ashkitten>
i just looked and found that out
<ashkitten>
not the slack
<ashkitten>
neon seems like something that we could make a generic builder for
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<ashkitten>
i hate the trend of "we can build stuff better than you" crap
<ashkitten>
i'd really like more things to be like "this is how you can build without our build system!"
<colemickens>
I also had the same reaction, but I have to admit it looks like a low-boilerplate method for shoving js and rust together
<ashkitten>
sure
<ashkitten>
can you provide it a nix-built package cache?
<colemickens>
me? I have neither the time, and would likely need much guidance.
<colemickens>
I am still failing at getting qt5+python building to go well. :(
<savanni_>
Have any of you worked with node2nix before? I'm unable to figure out how to trigger the build step of the resulting derivation before feeding it into my own derivation as a buildInput.
<savanni_>
Basically, the project is to take an existing electron app, build it using node2nix, and then create a derivation from that in which I add all of the necessary libraries and a wrapper script.
<savanni_>
Which, come to think of it, can't work because electron itself needs all of those libraries...
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<abathur>
I'm not sure if I or bash should feel ashamed of anything we've done in a dark alley, but I suspect at least one of us should
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<ashkitten>
why are forum accounts such high barrier to entry...
<ashkitten>
creating an account means maintaining it, i guess
<ashkitten>
creating an entry in my password manager, dealing with yet another thing that sends me emails
<ashkitten>
this is why i think project forums are bad tbh >>
<ashkitten>
(and why i think there should be decentralized forum software where i can have a single identity for interacting with everything)
<ashkitten>
maybe then i'd have actually used the nixos forums a single time since being involved with the project for so long
* ashkitten
says, lying to itself only a little
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<srk>
I find discourse a little too slow for browsing, just enabled Mailing list mode
<colemickens>
I wonder if Zulip could replace a forum
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<ashkitten>
colemickens: maybe, but it has the same barrier to entry issue because it's not decentralized
<ashkitten>
zulip chats are also not publicly readable, too
<ashkitten>
also, too, as well, additionally
<colemickens>
hm, good point. last random throw out idea- Matrix is getting support for some sort of threaded, based on what I hear in Matrix HQ.
<ashkitten>
yes, matrix is what i'm leaning heavily on
<ashkitten>
i prefer instant messaging formats anyways. it makes me feel less like i'm irrevocably putting something onto a site forever (though i know this is logged)
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<joepie91>
colemickens: ashkitten: this is a good introduction to the purpose of Neon: http://calculist.org/blog/2015/12/23/neon-node-rust/ -- basically, it is the Rust equivalent/layer of Node's native add-on system (but is not a part of core)
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<eyJhb>
joepie91: would be nice with some Matrix bridge modulse for NixOS :p
<hexa->
yeah, the communities part is stuck though
<hexa->
it's not well defined yet and awaiting an overhaul
<eyJhb>
Group/1:1 chats + calls?
<hexa->
communities are a collection of rooms
<eyJhb>
Is all moduels in TS?
<hexa->
?
<eyJhb>
All bridges I have seen, are in typescript :p
<hexa->
true
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<hexa->
re: discord. I'm pretty sure the bridge is working already, but I won't bother bridging discord until I get server<->community mappings
<hexa->
too big a hassle otherwise
<eyJhb>
Server community mappings?
<eyJhb>
Keep in mind, never used Matrix
<hexa->
oh ok
<hexa->
matrix has rooms, and you can group rooms together to communities
<hexa->
so you can share a set of rooms
<hexa->
which maps neatly to discord servers
<hexa->
except they designed a dedicated api for communities, then noticed it overlaps with rooms alot
<hexa->
you can create communities, you can invite others to communities, but you can't find and join them easily
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<joepie91>
hexa-: community overhaul is blocked behind a few other things, notably E2EE fixes and first-time user experience improvements
<hexa->
understandably
<philipp[m]>
Yeah, you can critique the matrix project for a lot of things but I have a strong feeling that they are good at identifying the problems that matter most and work on them.
<philipp[m]>
Do I hate that there are no official native client? Yep! Does it make sense to use node to have a single code base for prototyping and worry about native clients down the line? Absolutely!
<Valodim>
official native client for what?
<__monty__>
Matrix, from the context.
<Valodim>
I meant, native for what?
<Valodim>
linux?
<Valodim>
there are native apps for android and ios
<__monty__>
Maybe it's about "official native" apps?
<philipp[m]>
I'm talking official native apps for all the platforms curently serviced by element.
<Valodim>
honestly if they worked on a native app for linux I'd consider that a major waste of resources and would hope they'd stop
<philipp[m]>
That was exactly my point.
<Valodim>
ah. agreed, then :)
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<eyJhb>
Sigh
<eyJhb>
Maybe I should give Matrix a try
<eyJhb>
joepie91: did you host your own homeserver?
<joepie91>
eyJhb: nah, I use a friend's
<joepie91>
(f0x)
<eyJhb>
I have never seed f0x type in here :o But is that ran on NixOS with some nice costom modules ?
<philipp[m]>
I host my own homeserver. it's alright.
<f0x>
eyJhb: not too active no :p I joined here when joepie91 was working with shayu.it (my project) to try nix documentation
<f0x>
currently don't even use nixos myself, but it's been on my todo for looong now
<hexa->
eyJhb: why custom modules?
<eyJhb>
Uhh sweet! What are you then running it on?
<eyJhb>
philipp[m]: what do you do for the bridges you have then?
<eyJhb>
hexa-: birdges in general, setting them up etc. and integrating it with the server in a declaritive way
<philipp[m]>
I don't have any bridges right now. I used to have a telegram bridge but everyone I talked to moved away from the platform.
<f0x>
eyJhb: Debian Sid, on an old laptop in my utility closet :)
<philipp[m]>
I think there is a project in the works that makes hosting bridges easier and more elegant but it's OK already.
<f0x>
I also run telegram and multiple irc (freenode, oftc, smurfnet) bridges with it
<philipp[m]>
I host it on my hetzner box that I host everything on.
<eyJhb>
Join the dark side f0x ! :D - philipp[m] then do you just use the official bridge server?
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<philipp[m]>
Yeah, all of freenode is reachable via matrix.org.
<hexa->
eyJhb: there is an upstream module for matrix-synapse, nothing more right now
<philipp[m]>
Since freenode is public anyway I don't see much value in hosting the bridge myself.
<f0x>
eyJhb: soon(tm) perhaps :P
<f0x>
federation to matrix.org can get really laggy, so annoying to have that + irc delay
<f0x>
not that this is perfect performance-wise...
<philipp[m]>
federation to matrix.org got much better though.
<joepie91>
especially fun when matrix.org goes down, comes back up, and immediately knocks over everything else with its federation backlog
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<JJJollyjim>
I run appservice irc with a nixos module rn btw
<hexa->
same
<JJJollyjim>
It's easy to get going, except for the really annoying node2nix issue where it can't make devdeps only available at build time
<hexa->
matrix without matrix.org interaction is alot faster and smoother
<JJJollyjim>
node2nix is kinda painful in general :(
<{^_^}>
matrix-org/synapse#7618 (by f0x52, 7 weeks ago, open): Users stop syncing, postgres queries at high CPU
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<hexa->
yikes
<JJJollyjim>
Hmm I don't think I have that one
<adisbladis>
What happened with the supposed go synapse replacement?
<JJJollyjim>
My big problem is that scrolling up is slow, especially in big rooms like #nixos
<JJJollyjim>
adisbladis: it's still happening
<JJJollyjim>
progress was stalled for a while since all the dev effort had to go to keeping matrix.org from falling over
<JJJollyjim>
in general, writing a homeserver that federates correctly is a very hard problem
<JJJollyjim>
cos any discrepancy in what servers think is allowed will have bad effects on a room long-term
<eyJhb>
JJJollyjim: public module?
<JJJollyjim>
nah but it's very barebones, just "run the binary in a service and pass the specified args"
<JJJollyjim>
s/binary/node script/
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<philipp[m]>
Jamie: Wait, you can run your own bridge and still take part in this room on matrix? I thought, you needed to create your own room for that.
<JJJollyjim>
yeah you're right :(
<JJJollyjim>
my bridge is only for another irc server
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<Valodim>
no I think you can do that
<JJJollyjim>
!!
<Valodim>
not sure there is a point to it :) but bridges don't really care if there are other bridges in the same room and/or irc channel
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<JJJollyjim>
hmm
<JJJollyjim>
but messages would get double-bridged in both directions right?
<Valodim>
well, yes, if you tell a bridge to bridge between the same room and channel
<JJJollyjim>
or one direction at least
<Valodim>
but on that one I'm fairly certain there's no point :P
<JJJollyjim>
yeah
<JJJollyjim>
the point would be not relying on matrix.org
<JJJollyjim>
which would definitely decrease latency, and maybe other benefits
<Valodim>
ok no that doesn't really work
<Valodim>
unless you just use a non matrix.org bridged room altogether
<JJJollyjim>
yeah
<Valodim>
I do that for some rooms for my hackerspace, where I don't want to depend on the matrix.org freenode bridge :)
<philipp[m]>
btw: Does anybody know how to get moderation rights to the #nixos namespaced channels on matrix? Is there a way for that?
<philipp[m]>
I'd like to have some icons for them...
<Valodim>
philipp[m]: if you have irc +o, it'll mirror to matrix
<drakonis1>
gonna set up a relay so i can access weechat from my phone
<JJJollyjim>
oh
<JJJollyjim>
that doesn't sound very evil
<bqv>
gchristensen:
<bqv>
Oh
<bqv>
I didn't see it
<drakonis1>
a cheap as heck vps... on vultr
<drakonis1>
i'm reasonably happy that i finally did it
<drakonis>
this is dope
<philipp[m]>
So I made a little icon for #freenode_#nixos-gaming:matrix.org to look nicer on the matrix network. I took care of not violating any copyright. I think I can even get it there myself with op privileges. Is there anybody to ask first?
<joepie91>
drakonis: \o/
<joepie91>
first server?
<drakonis1>
yes
<joepie91>
nice
<joepie91>
I remember that feeling of suddenly having a small little space of my own, with ridiculously fast connection, and I could run whatever I wanted on it
<joepie91>
:P
<drakonis>
i can finally stop annoying people with my constant reconnecting
<philipp[m]>
Maybe gchristensen ?
<__monty__>
I think I talked about power supplies in rackmount units here? LTT recently uploaded a video about a cloud gaming company that has power come from outside the unit and then do DC-DC conversions inside for the correct voltages.
<adisbladis>
joepie91: I haven't even gotten past the headline and I already agree 100%
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<joepie91>
:)
<joepie91>
it's a slightly more polite rant than usual, too
<joepie91>
less "scorch the earth", more "please work with me on this"
<pie_>
i think supply cvhain attacks are becoming more ubiquitous because the usual easy pickings are now hard
<joepie91>
nah
<joepie91>
easy pickings are still there
<pie_>
but idk
<joepie91>
in supply chain land, that is :P
<joepie91>
it's absolutely trivial to ship malware in a library on a package registry
<joepie91>
basically every case that has been caught so far was caught because the attacker fucked up
<joepie91>
relied on a certain environment characteristic that wasn't true everywhere without error handling
<joepie91>
typo'd something
<joepie91>
that sort of thing
<joepie91>
in practice, almost noone actually reviews their deps
<pie_>
well yeh
<joepie91>
so yeah, the main reason that we don't hear of these attacks every day seems to be that there just aren't very many attackers who care about it very much
<joepie91>
competent attackers*
<joepie91>
which is hopeful, in a way :P
<gchristensen>
__monty__: I don't know about PSU talk in here, but iirc the DC bits are standard for Open19 too
<JJJollyjim>
joepie91: or because we don't know about the ones who haven't fucked up :3
<joepie91>
JJJollyjim: well, so, it's interesting - there are some people and organizations who *do* review dependencies, at least in JS (one of them is a client of mine), and that isn't really turning up any active attacks so far
<Valodim>
ah. so we can rest easy then 8)
<joepie91>
so from what I've seen, it seems that there just really aren't many attacjs, and those attacks that do exist, are largely by incompetent actors
<joepie91>
attacks*
<cransom>
__monty__: what's the benefit of bucking the dc down inside the chassis? i thought the advantage of DC in your rack was that you could avoid the powersupply entirely.
<joepie91>
I'm not seeing the entire ecosystem of course, but many of the popular libraries will probably have gone through review by someone, somewhere, at some point
<pie_>
so that raises the question of, if its so easy why arent they
<pie_>
something something economics
<joepie91>
pie_: honestly, I just don't think there are that many competent attackers
<joepie91>
competent tech people can generally earn a living just fine without this sort of thing
<joepie91>
and people, generally speaking, are predisposed to act good, not bad
<JJJollyjim>
hmm, i can't make a living
<JJJollyjim>
anyone know any supply chains i can attack?
<JJJollyjim>
:P
<joepie91>
(it's also probably not a coincidence that the attackers you do run across, often originate from countries with large socioeconomic inequality)
<__monty__>
gchristensen: Yeah, I believe google contributed an open spec for 24v to the unit and then stepping down to 12, 5, 3.3. This was just a baader-meinhof moment.
<__monty__>
cransom: I think it's because of efficiency? Lower voltages are less efficient to transport.
<__monty__>
Also, the DC-DC hardware doesn't need any extra cooling anyway so maybe the benefit is too small.
<gchristensen>
cransom: in this case it is a standard motherboard in a server chassis, and not opencompute/open19-specific board
<__monty__>
Oh, right, totally a good point.
<cransom>
sure, it doesn't have to be supplier specific. telco racks are typically all dc, iirc 48v usually because it makes battery power/backup dead simple
<__monty__>
No, wait. You could still have 5v come into the unit and plug it in bundled with 12v in the big connector, no?
<gchristensen>
dunno
<__monty__>
Yeah, simplicity of UPSes seems like the most prominent reason to do this.
<cransom>
it's possible, but not cost effective. you need really thick copper to avoid the voltage drop. if you are supplying amps of 5v/3.3v power somewhere
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<cransom>
and computers when they need their 3.3v, it has to be super stable. a shared bus of 3.3 power across things would be problematic
<__monty__>
cransom: Wait, you had the answer to your own question?
<__monty__>
Socransomnes : )
<cransom>
i was trying to figure out what kind of new fangled dc you were speaking of. 48v stuff is super old
<__monty__>
Nah, nothing new.
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<philipp[m]>
gchristensen: Could you OP me for a minute in #nixos-gaming so that I can set that icon?
<gchristensen>
you're an op in that channel and should be able to op yourself, I think?
<philipp[m]>
I thought so, too but Chanserv doesn't seem to agree :/
<gchristensen>
philipp[m]: ah, you need to log in with nickserv first
<philipp[m]>
Aaaah, it reset my session again...
<philipp[m]>
Yep, working now. We have an icon.
<philipp[m]>
Thanks for the hint.
* ashkitten
is excited for 3d printer today
<philipp[m]>
You are setting up your first one?
<ashkitten>
yes!
<ashkitten>
a creality ender 5
<philipp[m]>
What are you planning to do with it?
<ashkitten>
print stuff!
<ashkitten>
first thing is a calicat
<ashkitten>
obviously
<cransom>
benchys for days
<ashkitten>
then i'm gonna print some mounts for my vr lighthouses
<joepie91>
don't forget the test dog
<ashkitten>
dog??
<cole-h>
Dog.
<philipp[m]>
The updog?
<ashkitten>
nonsense. all i need is a calicat
<joepie91>
ashkitten: the included SD card will include an STL
<samueldr>
I feel there's so many GTLDs that it's all become horrible, especially considering how many rules and gotchas with some
<samueldr>
like premium names
<samueldr>
THE NAME YOU WANT IS A WORD??? PAY ELEVENTY BAJILLION DOLLARS
<samueldr>
oh, and renewal prices
<samueldr>
what a scam
<samueldr>
9.99$ for the first year
<samueldr>
99.99$ every year after
<ashkitten>
yes
<samueldr>
and it's SO arbitrary who gets to be in charge for GTLDs
<ashkitten>
dns is bad and should be replaced
<samueldr>
dns works fine for its intended design goal
<ashkitten>
samueldr: well, it's not arbitrary at all. it's whoever has money
<samueldr>
but we've had years of evolution on top of the initial goals!
<samueldr>
ashkitten: not even, it's more than just whoever has money AFAIK, they can decided that yes, the word you want you can use it, or no you can't
<samueldr>
*after* paying for the application
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<samueldr>
let's say the nix community was after .nix, it's not simply a question of following the process and paying
<samueldr>
why are some foreign words fine to be equivalent GTLDs (once translated) to english ones, but not other?
<ashkitten>
idk
<gchristensen>
this is a good time to announce I'm starting a gofundme to apply for .nii
<gchristensen>
.nix
<gchristensen>
(I won't make that typo on the application I promise)
<samueldr>
I don't know if you're genuine here
<ashkitten>
gchristensen: gonna have both nixos.wiki and wiki.nix!
<samueldr>
we are the package management that says nii!
<ashkitten>
wikios.nix
<gchristensen>
setup a 301 from nixos.org to default.nix
<ashkitten>
hah!
<samueldr>
os.nix for nixos the OS
<__monty__>
Hehe, "I got the TLD, everyone can now register for .n1x addresses! >.> <.<"
<samueldr>
ashkitten: DNS as a nix store cache resolver
<samueldr>
or, how cursed a sentence can I produce?
<gchristensen>
ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh
<gchristensen>
oh my *god*
<samueldr>
what's he done now?
<ashkitten>
only good things, clearly
<gchristensen>
advertise $(realpath /run/current-system | cut -d- -f1 | cut -d/ -f4).local as a DNS name for every system and create dns-based load balancing based on system hashes for Nix's evaluation/build purity but on the network service level
<ashkitten>
pff
<gchristensen>
including rollbacks and roll-forwards ugh ugh ugh I like it
<samueldr>
sorry
<joepie91>
"I hate that this sounds like a great idea"
<tilpner>
More incentive to keep secrets out of my system closure
<samueldr>
can YOUR operating system's intrinsic characteristics enable you to do such convoluted things?
<cransom>
i remember throwing lots of metadata in dns long ago, but, an entire nix store. that'll be significantly less leight weight.
<MichaelRaskin>
gchristensen: I expect deployment coupling issues to be … significant
<cole-h>
gchristensen: How much do applications cost? And if it gets approved or whatever, how does one create websites using that TLD? I'm very ignorant on how all that works. (e.g. how would I acquire cole-h.nix)
<samueldr>
the latter bit is "however the GTLD owner desires"
<samueldr>
(in my opinion it should be a third level domain, like uses.nix)
<samueldr>
(e.g. samueldr.uses.nix)
<ashkitten>
so in gchristensen's case obviously he'll just stick all of cache.n.o into dns
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<gchristensen>
cole-h: 180k
<cole-h>
samueldr: So, it could be "free", if whoever ends up having control of it wanted to?
<gchristensen>
last I looked
<cole-h>
gchristensen: WOWEE
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<samueldr>
cole-h: depends on what the GTLd owner desires AFAIUI
<gchristensen>
+ ongoing maintenance costs
<ashkitten>
imagine though, we could become the internet's biggest problem!
<samueldr>
that may also not include costs like being an accredited registrat at ICANN
<samueldr>
registrar*
<samueldr>
why must all 26 letters of the alphabet be so close together on that damned keyboard?
<ashkitten>
imo keyboards should have keys spread out over your entire desk
<ashkitten>
just hit big 5-inch buttons for each key
<manveru>
use a better alphabet
<samueldr>
use it like those arcade games you mash big buttons to the rhythm
<ashkitten>
osu! teaches typing
<cole-h>
gchristensen: Be sure to link the gofundme when it gets set up. I'll pitch in for sure -- I'd want a .nix website :P
<gchristensen>
great, now we both individually need to contribute 90k!
<ashkitten>
that's as much money as an entire year of income for many devs!
<__monty__>
ashkitten: You're just trying to have cats wreak even more havoc!
<gchristensen>
ashkitten: pitch in and we'll be down to 60k!
<cole-h>
:D
<ashkitten>
gchristensen: lol, i don't have the money in this household
<gchristensen>
ashkitten: out of everyone who has already 'committed' to help, I don't think any of them do.
<ashkitten>
gf said "if you have $60k sure"
<ashkitten>
so i guess i'm in!
<lovesegfault>
had to buy a dummy HDMI plug for my system to boot headless
<lovesegfault>
bloody stupid
<lovesegfault>
but it works :D
<eyJhb>
Buy. The. TLD. :D
<samueldr>
lovesegfault: when I saw that existed, I bought a couple (dvi, vga too) because I knew it'd end up useful at some point
<samueldr>
and it did
<lovesegfault>
Definitely super useful
<lovesegfault>
I bought three for future proofing
<samueldr>
the only thing that's not future proof is the advertised resolutions on its EDID
<samueldr>
e.g. if you want 4K and they only go up to 1080p
<lovesegfault>
Right, I got a 4K one
<lovesegfault>
not sure how to check it's actual res since the system is headless
<samueldr>
in my case it was to get an accelerated desktop via vnc
<colemickens>
wait, do some PCs just not POST without video out connected or what?
<samueldr>
that may be a thing
<colemickens>
That sounds... horrible and a bit annoying to diagnose if you didn't know ahead of time. oof
<eyJhb>
That is a thing
<samueldr>
but generally it's things like falling back to a safe resolution like 640x480 or 800x600 without an attached display
<eyJhb>
At least in the olden days some would not
<savanni_>
I remember when they wouldn't post if you didn't have a keyboard...
<samueldr>
or IIRC nvidia hardware won't do accelerated stuff without a display plugged-in
<samueldr>
like CUDA
<samueldr>
(not sure about that though)
<samueldr>
savanni_: or POST fine, but gladly tell you about it
<samueldr>
so it ends up as bad as if it didn't POST
<savanni_>
The old days.
<ashkitten>
colemickens: yes, i've got a motherboard that does not POST if the GPU isn't in the first slot even
<lovesegfault>
ashkitten: same
<lovesegfault>
it's some BS
<ashkitten>
it sucked really bad because my noctua nh-d15 didn't fit with the gpu in the first slot, and i've got pcie4 on both motherboard and gpu so it could have reasonably worked in another slot
<ashkitten>
so i have to use the amd stock cooler
<__monty__>
Ouch
<MichaelRaskin>
samueldr: I think there are also plugs to lie to video cards there is a monitor
<ashkitten>
at least it's not an intel stock cooler :p
<cole-h>
ashkitten: Which GPU?
<samueldr>
that's exactly what we were talking about MichaelRaskin
<ashkitten>
cole-h: rx5700
* cole-h
is planning to get a NH-U14S, but completely neglected to check if it will fit with my 1080...
<cole-h>
Guess I need to do some more research
<ashkitten>
it depends entirely on your motherboard layout
<ashkitten>
if the pcie slots are too close to the cpu
<MichaelRaskin>
Ah, too far in scrollback
<MichaelRaskin>
I think I have seen a machine with slightly-busted motherboard which needed no keyboard to be connected at boot. Later is fine.
<cole-h>
ashkitten: I have my eyes on the Gigabyte X570 AORUS ELITE
<cole-h>
Which mobo do you have?
<ashkitten>
mine is a asrock x570 phantom gaming 4
<ashkitten>
i feel silly even saying the name of these absurd things
<cole-h>
lol
<ashkitten>
sorry, i meant ASROCK X570 PHANTOM GAMING 4
<cole-h>
Hahaha
<ashkitten>
it's for GAMING
<cole-h>
Looks like the Aorus Elite has slightly more room between the first PCIe slot at the CPU socket...
<ashkitten>
might be enough
<cole-h>
s/at/and/
<gchristensen>
I hate those names
<cole-h>
But how else will they appeal to the GAMERS?
<ashkitten>
GAMERS only want ONE THING and it's DISGUSTING
<samueldr>
I want a super mario board
<samueldr>
with a 64 bit cpu, so a super mario 64 board
<gchristensen>
ashkitten: rgb?
<ashkitten>
gchristensen: elitism
<samueldr>
entrely red, with denim highlights
<gchristensen>
lol
<samueldr>
the entry level motherboard is the luigi
<ashkitten>
...i'd buy a denim computer case
<samueldr>
just luigi
<cole-h>
samueldr: You're full of bad^W good ideas today, aren't you.
<samueldr>
and in a year, they'll release the “NEW” super mario 64 board
<samueldr>
I mean, I'm a gamer
<samueldr>
I know what I want
* colemickens
crosses his fingers
<ashkitten>
gamers only want one thing: a new paper mario game that doesn't suck
<samueldr>
* a new mario-themed JRPG AFAIUI
<samueldr>
while the new paper mario games are not strictly JRPGs
* ashkitten
hears whispering "it said what we're all thinking!!"
<colemickens>
is the new one bad? I heard something about grinding and/or microtransactions and promptly lost interest.
<ashkitten>
samueldr: SPM was an ARPG, and it was good
<samueldr>
yeah
<samueldr>
I find SPM was good too
<samueldr>
but "the crowd" that wants a "true" paper mario rpg doesn't :/
<samueldr>
I've been hearing that if you expect a JRPG, the new one is "bad", but otherwise it's a fine game
<samueldr>
I haven't played any paper mario except super paper mario
<ashkitten>
colemickens: they're all just very samey with too much focus on aesthetic rather than an engaging story with robust character design
<ashkitten>
there's too many generic npcs, unlike the first 3 games which were full of creative and unique characters
<ashkitten>
it's like, who cares about finding the hundredth toad?? theyre not unique characters
<ashkitten>
ugh this is making me want to replay ttyd
<samueldr>
I've read that it's because of how nintendo has strict guidelines (now) for characters
<samueldr>
and it's basically impossible to make "themed" nintendo characters, or you make completely new unique ones
<samueldr>
that may only apply to external studios
<ashkitten>
i remember one of the selling points for paper mario color splash was just "it's all paper now!! remember pm64 and ttyd with their unique environments that maybe fudged the paper aesthetic a little to benefit the game design? yeah screw that"
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<ashkitten>
it's okay
<ashkitten>
i heard bug fables is good
<ashkitten>
and that it's heavily inspired by ttyd
<ashkitten>
i think as a whole people need to realize that big game studios don't care about making the same games that you grew up with, and it's better to look for the same ideas from other places
<ashkitten>
though it's obviously hard to unwind your identity from the specific games you play
<gchristensen>
it is dangerous to remake something people love
<samueldr>
they're also damned if they do, damned if they don't
<samueldr>
if they do, they "only re-release the same game"
<samueldr>
because there is no "one voice"
<samueldr>
you only hear the most outraged voices
<ashkitten>
yeah but they could also not ruin the entire series by releasing more games that completely throw out all the reasons people liked the original games
<samueldr>
it comes back to who "owns" the games and the "shared experience" of people
<samueldr>
not unique to games
<gchristensen>
the people of course
<samueldr>
we must believe that (in this particular instance) they are releasing the games in good faith, perfectly pleased with their work
<ashkitten>
yeah but the games dont resemble what the series means to its fans
<ashkitten>
which is bad
<samueldr>
I'll be quite blunt, but has there been a thorough survey of all fans of the paper mario series? :)
<samueldr>
anyone wants to try to work on a bug bounty concerning gmail?
<samueldr>
I may know of a long-standing issue, but will never go around to trying to confirm it
<gchristensen>
:o
<ashkitten>
i mean, no. and i know that some people like the new games obviously, but me and a lot of other fans i've talked to are in agreement that it's really frustrating
<gchristensen>
I sorta wish our bootloader integration could add an indicator next to generations which successfully reached multi-user.target
<ashkitten>
obviously it's a lost cause
* gchristensen
is iterating on configs which almost never work
<samueldr>
gchristensen: I believe daniel//rf[m]'s working on something along the lines of that
<gchristensen>
oh!
<samueldr>
what I mean is that it could be hooked into what he's working on
<gchristensen>
nice!
<ashkitten>
we talked about something similar with mobile-nixos, right?
<samueldr>
kinda linked yes
<ashkitten>
mostly just wondering, is there potential for a unified bootloader for both mobile and desktop nixos?
<Church->
gchristensen: Yeah I'm definitely going to need to use nixOps or something going forward. Way too many times I accidentally lock myself out and need to grab a keyboard/monitor because my server restarts and my generation is borked >_>
<Church->
Pretty sure there's a health check feature I think
<Church->
Or some feature to not start a config if it would lead to lock out
<samueldr>
ashkitten: I'm gonna use the bootloadery parts of mobile nixos on desktop, for dogfooding reasons, but it's "highly unlikely" for android-based devices as they are*
<samueldr>
* if tianocore ends up ported for your device, things will differ greatly
<gchristensen>
oooh yeah
<samueldr>
(or if your device uses u-boot, you could boot with other schemes than the one from mobile-nixos)
<ashkitten>
ooh
<samueldr>
so basically, it's an opinionated bootloadery thing for those devices where you are forced to boot a linux
<samueldr>
if you can do something else, do something else! :)
<samueldr>
just like I've said some times, on the pinephone it's a bog standard u-boot (though there's no graphics yet)
<samueldr>
you're free to use the sd image's usual setup
<samueldr>
and more power to users if they want to do so :)
<ashkitten>
need to get a pinephone sometime, heh
<samueldr>
I hate vendor lock-in, so I try not to do it myself
<samueldr>
in theory all parts of mobile-nixos should be composable in relative indepdence
<samueldr>
but the main point here is that they abstract the different ecosystems into usable configuration options
<samueldr>
so for "best results", using the whole toolset is the best, as it in theory allows you to use the same config across the range of heterogeneuous devices
<Church->
samueldr: How is mobile nixOS coming? Was about to go stick mobian on my Braveheart and see how it went
<Church->
Since it's been some months since I fiddled
<samueldr>
right now the pinephone has wifi+bluetooth, basic GUI going, but nothing more as I'm elevating all platforms "equally" along the way
<samueldr>
though I'm in a yak shave to get into it, the next working point is wifi on some more modern android devices
<samueldr>
(current yak shave is making it so the bootloadery thing can mount an encrypted drive so I can dogfood it)
<samueldr>
(and also load kernels using kexec so I can iterate faster)
<Church->
Nod nod, how responsive is the GUI? Any lag?
<Church->
That was a major issue with all the UIs
<samueldr>
"there is no GUI"
<samueldr>
there is no goal to prescribe one GUI
<samueldr>
but, the only "built-in" configuration is an example demo system built on top of X11, fbdev (not accelerated) and a mix of XFCE and awesomewm
<Church->
Nod
<samueldr>
that was made hastily to show something nice during nixcon 2019 :)
<samueldr>
at some point *a* phone GUI will be packaged, but as with NixOS proper, you make the choice
<samueldr>
why fbdev? because it's the lowest common denominator
<samueldr>
I can actually run the same system image, byte for byte, on all the supported devices*
<samueldr>
* as long as the arch matches
<gchristensen>
hrm... I wodner if I can run a second udev ...
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<philipp[m]>
Is there nothing except gimp that can read xcf?
<philipp[m]>
I tried krita, inkscape and imagemagic convert so far. Nothing worked.
<worldofpeace>
philipp: xcf is the native format of gimp
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<philipp[m]>
Yes, but we don't live in a proprietary hellhole, where no software is supposed to import each others native format, do we?
<samueldr>
inter-operability is not necessarily an open source thing
<samueldr>
supporting another program's file format has costs
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<philipp[m]>
I features do. I wished that not locking in users would be more on the top of the respective projects priorities but in the end it's their choice of course.
<philipp[m]>
In this case it seems like gimp is iterating so fast on their format that nobody else can keep up.
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