gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
<samueldr> fun fact, if the linux config kernel file somehow has CRLF (from being uploaded to a site that adds them), the Nixpkgs linuxManualConfig helper will fail in weird ways when validating the config
<drakonis> is it perl based?
<samueldr> you tell me
<samueldr> (I don't know)
<drakonis> well, time to find out!
<samueldr> parts are all over Nixpkgs, it's hard to know where to find each bit :/
<samueldr> but it creates a Nix expression that it reads using IFD
<samueldr> nope, not perl-based
<drakonis> pkgs/os-specific/linux/kernel/manual-config.nix
<drakonis> wonder why then
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<bqv> nyxt is great, actually. I've integrated it nicely, especially with emacs, and it might actually get around my compositor-has-no-clipboard issue since I can just use my emacs kill-ring :')
<bqv> Using more than emacs and a browser is overrated
<bqv> Being able to script a browser is nuts
<bqv> Just wish I could get emacs to stop crashing :|
<bqv> colemickens: would you perhaps add the emacs pgtk fork to your wayland flake, since many of us use it but it's not suitable for the emacs overlay
<colemickens> Yes in the sense that it's fine to add it, no in the sense that I don't have time. You can open an issue though, someday I'll do another round of adding pkgs.
<bqv> Oh, yeah sure, tomorrow
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<etu> eyJhb: I'm in the middle of nowhere in full vacation mode
<srhb> etu: Sounds lovely :3
<srhb> etu: Nowhere, Sweden?
<etu> srhb: Yes, Värmland in a small village with a few houses, one food store, near a small lake, sourounded by forest.
<srhb> etu: I'm very jealous. Was supposed to go to (southern) Sweden this summer, but it probably won't happen. Enjoy! :D
<etu> srhb: I will go to Småland in two weeks. Rented a full house to share with two very good friends from Malmö ;)
<jtojnar> when you start packaging an app, try to create a branch and find out you have already packaged it last year 🤦‍♀️️
<srhb> etu: Excellent
<etu> srhb: I originally had the plans to take the train to Germany and go places there... But yeah... 🤷
<srhb> Sweden is not so bad for getting to some real nature at least. :D
<etu> :)
<sphalerite> etu: ha, some of my family is on holiday in Värmland as well right now
<sphalerite> jtojnar: did you finish it last year though?
<etu> sphalerite: Nice, my wife's parents live here. So it's a family visit combined vacation. It's quite nice :)
<eyJhb> srhb: Plan B for me, is going to Norway :p
<eyJhb> But I would have wanted to go to Sweden as well...
<eyJhb> etu: do you have any lovely images from where you are at?
<srhb> eyJhb: Never been. I really ought to correct that.
<etu> eyJhb: Nope, been here many times so haven't thought about it :)
<eyJhb> srhb: You really should! It is wonderful there as well. My GF hasn't been there as well, so we are hoping to go at the end of august :) -- etu: Makes sense :p
<eyJhb> I should really get my Weechat plugins installed again
<jtojnar> sphalerite looks like not finished, saw the deprecated dependencies and gave up
<jtojnar> at least they removed libgnomeui dependency just this june
<jtojnar> just ten years after it has been deprecated
<colemickens> How do we make this a solved problem?
<colemickens> I know me and others constantly land on this page: https://github.com/NixOS/nix/issues/2363
<{^_^}> nix#2363 (by bhipple, 1 year ago, closed): Feature: human readable path-info closure sizes
<colemickens> and neither the issue, nor the closing PR, nor the contents of the closing PR are immediately helpful for checking closure size
<colemickens> nix-tree uses `nix` directly and thus breaks if nix is too new (and I refuse to enable --experimental-features system wide and thus defeat the point of hte flag)
<colemickens> maybe just another nix feature request.
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<colemickens> I love when sprinkling nix on something feels like a good idea and then turns out to be a great idea.
<colemickens> And what better use than to generate a chain shell scripts.
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<manveru> colemickens: nix-tree works fine with latest flakes, afaict...
<manveru> i use it all the time anyway :)
<manveru> and i think i got all the experimentals on
<colemickens> (and I refuse to enable --experimental-features system wide and thus defeat the point of hte flag)
<manveru> the point of the flag is to make life awesome, as far as i'm concerned :D
<manveru> but i work exclusively with flakes these days...
<colemickens> hm, I have strong opinions on this. the point of the flag is to introduce friction
<colemickens> My concern is that if everyone overrides it, then there will be much complaining when the nix cli interface changes, even though it's explicitly an experimental feature.
<colemickens> I have a lot of trouble with the nix v2 cli and I'm worried about it being stuck the way it is for the sake of it having been that way so far.
<manveru> i have no problem with breaking changes, i know it's experimental, but i can also tightly control what version i'm using across the board...
<colemickens> Hm. I hadn't really considered that.
<manveru> which incidentally, flakes makes both harder and easier...
<manveru> since the lock format keeps changing every week or so
<colemickens> heh
<colemickens> I've yet to get bit by it, but I've seen a few comments
<manveru> anyway, i think i can best help by actually using the new features day-to-day and give constructive feedback on what can be improved instead of waiting until things are finalized and unable to change
<manveru> and then the great wailing and teeth gnashing starts :P
<manveru> everyone lives on the bleeding edge of something... i just enjoy bathing in blood a bit too much
<srhb> hehe, me too. I do miss quite a few "legacy v2" features though
<srhb> The transition is hard when stuff like nix search won't work the way it used to.
<srhb> (and I have to coexist with "old v2" world)
<manveru> yeah...
<srhb> But the problem there was that experimental didn't mean anything to anyone as long as it's not guarded by a flag, so yeah, the world will probably get better after a lot of pain this time around
<srhb> Oh, nixos-option I miss too.
<philipp[m]> https://mastodon.matrix.org/@matrix/104522946973918309 That would indeed be a very cool feature.
<manveru> yeah... nixos-option would be nice...
<manveru> i get by with `nix eval` since my system is a flake now
<manveru> `nix eval .#nixosConfigurations.kappa.config.networking.hostName`
<manveru> but it's not quite as nice
<manveru> so for the actual lookup i have to rely on the manpage
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<bqv> srhb: why coexist?
<bqv> I just nuked nix1 tools
<joepie91> "my system is a flake now" - this does not sound great :D
<joepie91> philipp[m]: one thing to consider is that there is still a social aspect to this
<joepie91> ie. the "yeah sorry it's unsigned, I messed up my Riot install" case
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<srhb> bqv: Not really an option without rewriting the world here. :)
<philipp[m]> joepie91: Yeah, of course. At least it's them trying to do the right thing though.
<srhb> And even then, tooling is not quite there yet.
<bqv> Heh
<eyJhb> Jesus CHRIST Docker, how many edge cases do you have?!
<eyJhb> So if I delete a image, it will not actually delete it, for some reason
<eyJhb> :/
<eyJhb> *sigh* have to look at the API again..
<philipp[m]> One of my main pet peeves with many of the shiny new tools like docker or ansible: They concentrate completely on getting stuff running but never clean up after them.
<eyJhb> WELL
<eyJhb> I guess
<eyJhb> They also document things that are not true
<philipp[m]> Users actually reading documentation is an edge case for them, yes.
<philipp[m]> Why didn't you just copy & paste from stack overflow?
<{^_^}> docker/distribution#3143 (by eyJhb, 13 weeks ago, open): Add pagination on `/v2/<name>/tags/list`
<{^_^}> docker/distribution#3145 (by eyJhb, 13 weeks ago, open): Fix `last` bug and optimise catalog function
<eyJhb> philipp[m]: my current problem is weird..
<eyJhb> I can delete the images using the API (Go lib), but once I rebulid them, it just uses the cache or SOMETHING that should not be there
<eyJhb> If I use the CLI then it works..
<philipp[m]> Sounds nasty...
<eyJhb> Indeed. Because I am rebuilding images, when files changes based on mod time...
<eyJhb> So it will not really "rebuild it"
<__monty__> Is the library caching locally?
<eyJhb> Yes. Local builds
<joepie91> <eyJhb> Jesus CHRIST Docker, how many edge cases do you have?!
<joepie91> yes
<__monty__> eyJhb: Then it sounds like the Go library's caching things improperly?
<eyJhb> More likely that the API does not delete the intermediate builds/images when calling DELETE /images/%s
<eyJhb> I can of course try this using curl
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<eyJhb> I found my problem, yay. I have two images that are somewhat the some
<eyJhb> same*
<eyJhb> You are OK this time, but does not excuse the SLOW SLOW PR workflow
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<philipp[m]> slow PR workflow? Some of my favourite projects have a slow pr workflow :D
<eyJhb> philipp[m]: Anything good?
<__monty__> Ranger : >
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<eyJhb> Delete image by ID, then stuff works I guess
<__monty__> Are "Aztec codes" supported for wifi credentials?
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<eyJhb> Wooo, removed 261 lines of code and added more functionality then before
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<sphalerite> https://status.github.com/ down (expired cert). Nice.
<Valodim> haha
<philipp[m]> Wow, that's a wildcard cert for the entire domain. They are lucky only status.@ is down.
<sphalerite> (though the actual site is at https://www.githubstatus.com/ which is fairly sensible
<sphalerite> )
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<manveru> eyJhb: nomad cleans up after docker at least :)
<manveru> pretty aggressively too...
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<cole-h> Anybody else getting sent to `https://github.com/notifications/beta/archive` when marking a notification as done?
<cole-h> (From inside the notification)
<cole-h> And also adding reactions are refreshing the page for me???
<joepie91> github seems to be working super well lately
<joepie91> yesterday I forked someone's repo and then it got stuck on "forking, this will just take a moment..." for 10 minutes
<gchristensen> lol
<joepie91> until eventually telling me their storage backend was down
<cole-h> .
<gchristensen> was this when they hit their maxint?
<cole-h> They hit maxint? lol
<gchristensen> "During the incident, a shared database table’s auto-incrementing ID column exceeded the size that can be represented by the MySQL Integer type"
<joepie91> with the status page claiming all was totally fine
<joepie91> their what
<joepie91> wow.
<cole-h> Time to add another auto-incrementing ID column
<infinisil> cole-h: Yeah just had the same problem with beta/archive earlier
<adisbladis> joepie91: Yesterday I pushe a commit to a PR branch, the PR in question still hasn't updated
<joepie91> the prosecution rests
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<cole-h> adisbladis: Same happened with wop on their gnome 20.03 branch (up until GH fixed their issues and a force-push appears to have made those commits visible)
<eyJhb> manveru: well it is also quite easy to cleanup :p
<eyJhb> docker rm -f $(docker ps -a -q) - repeat for network+images, etc.
<eyJhb> Welp `*** Forbidden. Your IP belongs to a high spam risk network. Please, try again without VPN. ***`
<gchristensen> what is this?
<eyJhb> Searching https://raspberrypi.dk/
<gchristensen> hm
<eyJhb> Shared IP where I live
<eyJhb> Guess I just cannot search the site :p
<eyJhb> Going to buy a Raspberry Pi Zero W <3
<eyJhb> Hoping to throw NixOS on it
<gchristensen> those things are so cool
<eyJhb> Yeah, but I want to attach my touch screen to it
<eyJhb> Which it seems like it will not do
<gchristensen> I wonder how it would handle a graphical stack and touch screen with 1x 1GHz core
<eyJhb> I guess I might find out? :p
<tilpner> Android phones used to function with less than that, for various values of "just fine"
<gchristensen> all computers used to
<gchristensen> minus the touch screen
<tilpner> Of course, but I couldn't mention those because they didn't use touch interaction
<tilpner> Just don't expect to browse the modern web on it :/
<eyJhb> WHAT
<eyJhb> But I want to
<eyJhb> :(
<eyJhb> Just hoping for maybe a single page open
<manveru> just outsource the rendering...
<eyJhb> Else I will throw a RPi3 at it
<eyJhb> I.. Cannot edit my address for the package
<eyJhb> Because of "spam detection"
<philipp[m]> I had a graphical stack running on the original beagle board. It worked, but it wasn't good.
<eyJhb> Ordered
<eyJhb> Not sure if it should be a display, or a actual touchscreen
<eyJhb> I would like a bigger screen in general for touch. But they are expensive
<eyJhb> > DKK 235
<{^_^}> "814277.350000 VND"
<eyJhb> Damn, still
<eyJhb> > VND 814277
<{^_^}> "30.942526 EUR"
<eyJhb> > EUR 30.942526
<{^_^}> "30.942526 EUR = 232.068945 DKK"
<srhb> ...
<eyJhb> Well, some rouding
<eyJhb> srhb: you know you love it
<eyJhb> rounding*
<eyJhb> Also, thanks for merging my PRs <3 srhb
<{^_^}> srhb's karma got increased to 116
<srhb> Sure. Now to fix apparmor. Q_Q
<eyJhb> Not it.
<eyJhb> Seems no fun. What are you doing with it?
<srhb> I think it's just gnumake43 incompat, but my naive downgrade didn't work, and applying the upstream patch is a PITA because our patches are very very custom.
<srhb> Might just end up throwing a patched patch in the repo.
<srhb> We need a composable fetchpatch. fetchpatch-to-the-nth-power
<Valodim> fetchpatch'
<srhb> Valodim: Perfect, of course! ;)
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<evanjs> note to self.... --ignore-liveliness.... probably not worth it
<evanjs> aptly named, though
<evanjs> I should just consider it _my_ liveliness lol
<srhb> Yeah, --destroy-system-without-warning is probably a better name :P
<evanjs> basically lol
<evanjs> I mean it would be cool if it detected whether it will touch the running system
<evanjs> that would be nice
<evanjs> Man I wish KVM over IP was more common/affordable tho. Just checked the prices and what the heck lol
<evanjs> I wonder if I could also get it set up so that there's an emergency fallback into a recovery disk or something. idk
<evanjs> basically, it wouldn't normally matter too much... if this wasn't on my work computer XD
<evanjs> and we're still working from home for now :P
<joepie91> srhb: I vote for --set-it-all-on-fire
<srhb> yeeees
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<evanjs> good thing IT is in building
<evanjs> *fingers crossed there are un-deleted generations...*
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<philipp[m]> Imagine writing a mpv library for python and hard setting the mpv executable to `/usr/bin/mpv`.
<worldofpeace> people do this
<eyJhb> evanjs: hardware with iKVM, love it
<eyJhb> Once you go iKVM, you never go back.
<eyJhb> Unless something more opensource comes along
<eyJhb> Than SuperMicro + ASRock things
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<evanjs> yeah I wish it was affordable omg
<evanjs> got IT to get a recovery disk booted
<evanjs> nixos-installing my huge@$$ config now
<evanjs> can't directly do it because IFD or something weird lol
<eyJhb> evanjs: how much is affordable?
<evanjs> I mean, hopefully under 100... but at least under 200... everything I'm seeing averages like 400-500. like why lol
<gchristensen> everything is soo expensive
<eyJhb> evanjs: Is this VND currency?
<eyJhb> > VND 200
<{^_^}> "0.007600 EUR"
<eyJhb> :D
<eyJhb> EUR or US evanjs ?
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<samueldr> if funding was found for the time it takes to tie loose ends, I think it is possible to make a raspberrypi-based networked-based KVM thingy, HDMI+USB rather cheaply
<samueldr> including controling the computer's power button
<evanjs> eyJhb: US
<joepie91> so basically an open-source kvm spider
<samueldr> one-legged spider maybe
<samueldr> though multi-legged could work too I figure
<samueldr> but let's stay in the realm of known-possible :)
<joepie91> samueldr: referring to the lantronix product here :)
<samueldr> the main lacking thing right now would be software integration, I guess
<samueldr> yeah, I assumed so
<samueldr> oh, I thought it had multiple inputs/outputs support
<samueldr> so yeah, the main issue would be to have a "vnc-like" software stack, as everything else AFAIK is a solved solution that needs a bit of integration work
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<eyJhb> Sigh.. Forced to create a Matrix for Mozilla support...
<eyJhb> Also.. Media over ethernet might be hard
<samueldr> media over ethernet?
<samueldr> oh, let's say an iso image on USB?
<samueldr> didn't think about that, but possible too
<sphalerite> samueldr: I'd be surprised if there aren't ready-made mux chips that can be controlled via SPI or something and just bash the HDMI/USB through there
<sphalerite> eyJhb: weeelll iKVM is _practical_ but I wouldn't say I love the java crap… :p
<sphalerite> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues?q=is%3Aissue+mysql+gcc+is%3Aclosed has been unicorning all day for me :(
<eyJhb> sphalerite: HATE that Java crap
<eyJhb> But... I love what it gives mo
<eyJhb> me*
<sphalerite> will agree with that bit
<samueldr> sphalerite: show them to me :)
<eyJhb> Honestly
<eyJhb> Couple it up with a Android device
<eyJhb> DriveDroid exists
<samueldr> yes
<eyJhb> A little more and you wold be good to go
<samueldr> is that the FLOSS one?
<samueldr> there is a tool like it that is on F-Droid
<samueldr> I forget which it is
<samueldr> but I don't follow, eyJhb, couple what up with an android device?
<samueldr> the way drivedroid works is a basic feature in the kernel :)
<samueldr> the same feature that would be used to make inputs on usb work
<eyJhb> samueldr: sadly no, I don't think so
<samueldr> right
<samueldr> it's usb mountr
<eyJhb> Ehm.. My idea was just, if can can make something like a android app, that you connected to some hw which connected to the server, then that would be cool
<eyJhb> `Note: This app is no longer maintained, the source repo has been archived.`
<eyJhb> Damn
<samueldr> aw
<eyJhb> I have bought premium for DriveDroid. I love it soo much
<samueldr> though it still works
<eyJhb> I rarely use it however
<samueldr> you'd still need to get the hdmi output and usb inputs on the server going :)
<sphalerite> samueldr: I don't actually know, of course, just making confident assertions anyway :p
<eyJhb> Yuup
<samueldr> I have already half of that working
<eyJhb> But Y thought you where the HW hacker by now samueldr ? :p
<eyJhb> But I*
<samueldr> hw? no, hardware is hard
<eyJhb> Half my education is HW
<eyJhb> I understand 0 of it
<eyJhb> Or some, but not when it comes to PCB design, KCL/KVL
<samueldr> heh
<samueldr> what I have in mind uses only off-the-shelf things anyone can buy
<samueldr> though surely it could be made even spiffier with some hw work
<eyJhb> Make a PCB, make it public, etc. and then.. Well
<eyJhb> Maybe not
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<eyJhb> Everytime I come home after fitness, spotify on my computer will switch to the playlist I heard during fitness
<eyJhb> So I am often surprised by heavy bass drops
<samueldr> extremely old man screaming at clouds, but, my iPod (with a touch wheel, grayscale screen, 3rd gen) doesn't have that "cloud" connectivity, so I don't experience that :)
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<philipp[m]> Medium old man, currently building their own cloud with jellyfin.
<samueldr> oh, "extremely" as in the feeling, not the age
<samueldr> I'm not old
<samueldr> or so I tell myself
<philipp[m]> gelli is out now, a dedicated music player for jellyfin on android with song caching and all those nice things.
<bqv> philipp[m]: a legal, or illegal cloud?
<bqv> cause i used jellyfin once, for extralegal purposes, but it just became a mess
<bqv> maybe it's easier with nix
<philipp[m]> Strictly legal. That elaborate torrent setup is exclusively for seeding linux distribution isos.
<bqv> ah yes
<ashkitten> i was kinda eyeing funkwhale for music
<ashkitten> since it's also got federated music sharing in a sorta soundcloud way
<ashkitten> i'm not sure though
<bqv> i could imagine funkwhale being an incredible tool for creating censorship-resistant music sharing (read: piracy), but they avoid that idea like the plague
<philipp[m]> Yeah... I like to keep my strictly legal setup strictly for me and people I trust.
<bqv> i went into their discord once and asked about it, they all went fight-or-flight and assumed i was a lawyer
<philipp[m]> lol
<ashkitten> well, i imagine it'd be cool for like, you have a private library of songs you've bought, with the added ability to also collect free music other people have created and distributed on the platform in the same place
<ashkitten> i would want to run my own funkwhale instance though
<ashkitten> and it's not packaged in nixpkgs
<ashkitten> (also i really don't need to have more services running on my server, with 200ms avg io latency already....)
<bqv> i would have run my own too, but it makes little sense if i still have to manually go out fishing for music. at that point i might as well just use spotify or just have a local library
<ashkitten> i'll hopefully be moving to a new server soon that we actually own, but we need new drive caddies and the ones we bought turned out to be for 3.5" drives not 2.5"
<ashkitten> we're not sure where to get drive caddies, i think
<bqv> it just seems to me like the only thing funkwhale would actually be great for, is the thing they aren't allowed to legally embrace
<ashkitten> ehh
<ashkitten> soundcloud is very popular
<ashkitten> a self-hosted federated soundcloud replacement is a very strong idea imo
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<philipp[m]> Yeah, we need everything that's popular in self hosted and federated.
<ashkitten> i disagree with federated for things like social media
<bqv> i suppose it might work, i just don't imagine that with soundcloud already being far less popular than larger alternatives, making it even more niche by federating it won't really go anywhere
<ashkitten> i think fully decentralized is the answer for personal communication platforms
<bqv> i think i accidentally triple negative, but you get the idea
<bqv> ashkitten: that's another thing i want, but understand that i'll never get :p
<ashkitten> bqv: ehhh scuttlebutt exists (though it certainly has problems, and a lack of adoption)
<ashkitten> matrix is great for encrypted chat
<philipp[m]> ashkitten: I think federated is a stepping stone to fully decentralised like matrix tries to do it.
<ashkitten> and matrix will be getting p2p in the future
<bqv> yeah, i don't see ssb getting adoption any day soon
<ashkitten> philipp[m]: maybe, but i don't like the design of the fediverse as is
<eyJhb> Anyone know how to enable `Enterprise Policies` for Firefox?
<bqv> say what you will about the fediverse, it's the only thing on the internet to this day that's managed to be decentralised to the scale that it is besides email
<bqv> imagine mastodon made the leap to fully distributed now. it'd actually work!
<ashkitten> it has no path to do so
<philipp[m]> Yeah, the fediverse is kinda a mess. I see it as a learning experience.
<bqv> obviously
<samueldr> I thought http was quite decentralised
<bqv> samueldr: well, ok, fine
<ashkitten> there is literally no way the fediverse could transition to p2p
<bqv> ashkitten: yes yes, that wasn't my point
<ashkitten> for one thing, there's no way for servers to deal with low expected uptime levels
<ashkitten> and dns is extremely centralized
<bqv> ...ok nevermind
<ashkitten> sorry
<samueldr> uh, something's afoot in organization repository lists https://stuff.samueldr.com/screenshots/2020/07/20200716172402_2mgt2as02xa2ynxkzru.png
<ashkitten> bqv: so i don't think the fediverse can be p2p, but maybe something else can. however, it doesn't seem like anyone has the initiative to do so
<samueldr> github somehow decided to assign nixpkgs an <h1> while other repos not
<bqv> no, sure, but i was agreeing with philipp[m] that federation is the only way to successful p2p
<bqv> and i see the fediverse as proof of that
<ashkitten> bqv: i disagree
<bqv> all other decentralised approaches have arguably failed
<ashkitten> cabal is a neat thing
<ashkitten> it's mostly demoware, but it does hit some points other things haven't
<colemickens> cabal is hyperdrive-adjacent, yeah?
<ashkitten> yes
<colemickens> I wish there were less JS in that space, but rumors of a datrs demo soon. I am excited by that space, and kappa, and cobox, but hard to tell where everyone is at/working/etc.
<bqv> i mean, i know about that one, but surely if even tech people barely know about it, it's gonna struggle hard to get out to non-tech people (who are the majority)
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<ashkitten> colemickens: my concern is about privacy, there's no protection against a chat's uri leaking
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<ashkitten> there's a lot of issues with cabal, but it does show that p2p first is viable
<ashkitten> i don't know about for social media
<ashkitten> scuttlebutt is neat, of course, but has a lack of adoption
<ashkitten> people have different expectations for that than they do a chat app
<ashkitten> scuttlebutt is probably good for people who have physical locality
<colemickens> I also have high privacy expectations and have recently (last year) via Asuran learned of data-leaks via backup tools that I hadn't previously considered. Or that I had considered and didn't know were solvable.
<colemickens> I've yet to see if the hyperdrive-y stuff implements such features. I hope for more blog posts around it. I've had a hard time getting my feet wet.
<colemickens> Also, I couldn't get any of the hyperdrive stuff packaged in nixpkgs. I did the node steps but it required more manual overriding than I could figure out
<ashkitten> i think social media is a bad dynamic honestly, it's not great to be dependent on a never-ending stream of posts from people you barely know
<bqv> yeah i agree with that strongly
<ashkitten> and yes, i will freely admit i met many friends through social media (the fediverse specifically, really)
<ashkitten> but i don't think that means the fediverse is good
<bqv> i mean i've intentionally cut myself off from the likes of facebook, twitter, etc. and as a result i can't seem to get into mastodon life even if i want to, but i do use reddit fairly regularly, and i'm tracking lemmy as a potential alternative
<bqv> i'm not sure it's better, but i don't think i can realistically cut myself off from that sort of media sharing anytime soon
<ashkitten> well, we have to look at what those things replaced in our lives
<ashkitten> unfortunately, we can't really do physical interaction much right now
<bqv> it would be bold of me to claim that i did physical interaction even pre-corona :p
<ixxie> well, even without COVID, real-life community interaction is missing from many modern societies
<cransom> social media. when every murmur from the crowd is screaming in your ear.
<ashkitten> often these social media platforms claimed to be an online metaphor for local community interaction, but were actually much inferior
<ashkitten> facebook is not a replacement for getting to know your community
<ashkitten> so i think in the future after covid i'm going to try and go out more and meet people in my area
<ashkitten> of course, we have to examine the aspect that for a lot of people, that's not an option for various reasons anyway
<ashkitten> a lot of queer children discovered themselves through social platforms in ways they would never have been able to in only their local community
<ixxie> facebook/insta/twitter all work for either one-on-one networking with your immediate contacts, OR all of society talking in one giant space, not so much the in-between community scale
<ixxie> I get the feeling Reddit is more community like, although I never got deep into it
<ashkitten> so how can we create healthier platforms that can give people the support they need, in ways that actually work in a community model?
<pie_> colemickens: hyperdrive?
<ixxie> ashkitten: metacommunities
<ashkitten> and furthermore how can we give people the power to cultivate their experience on these platforms, and not have to sign up on some website someone else controls?
<ixxie> yeah exactly, we need to create a platform flexible enough to allow each community to shape its own medium without knowing how to code
<colemickens> pie_: kappa and cobox build on top of hyperdrive (and I *think* one adds support for replicating drives that you can't decrypt). Hyperdrive is the future of dat as I understand it. Cabal is a chat app built on hyperdrive's lower level blocks.
<pie_> so many words
<ixxie> and yet keep these communities connected somehow, so they exchange ideas, people and culture
<pie_> i have no idea what kappa and cobox are
<pie_> what is dat
<colemickens> pie_: yes, it is all a lot, and it's all moving constantly. I'm already at a point where I'm afraid to say a lot more for fear of spreading confusion or outdated info.
<pie_> well, its linked there so at least thats a thing
<philipp[m]> At least from what I've seen so far I strongly believe that communities that have some kind of acual unifying purpose can stay healthy and supportive for a long time.
<philipp[m]> They can survive their medium, even. I know a few communities that formed on early twitter (pre 2011) that are still good and found other ways to organise.
<ixxie> philipp[m]: indeed, and its kinda hard to have an actual purpose when you are only online, unless you are doing purely digital stuff
<philipp[m]> For example the German Podcasting community was founded on twitter and it's still a relatively healthy and supportive network.
<pie_> having common principles will do that
<bqv> colemickens: this is a hell of an update script you've got here
<bqv> it also doesn't work, for me :p
<bqv> unless i'm doing it wrong
<bqv> either way, i'll PR emacs in
<bqv> you know, i've thought up a new github workflow. I'll have a single PR repository, with branches for each fork i want to fiddle with, so i don't end up with hundreds of repos that i've forked only to make a tiny pr every now and then
<colemickens> bqv: lmao which one I have like 3 divergent copies, weee
<colemickens> bqv: sounds like a nightmare for a .git dir
<bqv> well i'd never actually clone the fork repo
<bqv> i'd just add it as a remote when i need it
<colemickens> ah right
<colemickens> bqv: right, context, the nixpkgs-wayland one? Ideally you'd nix-shell, copy/paste an existing dir and add to default.nix. If you get something close I can finish it off too
<bqv> this is what i've done, and that i what i was hoping
<bqv> wait
<bqv> fuck
<bqv> that'd never work because github won't pull request without the Github-Approved fork badge
<colemickens> is that actually true?
<bqv> yes
<bqv> you can't PR unless it's a github fork
<bqv> nixpkgs-wayland#223
* colemickens random: why does direnv not make that dir by itself?
<bqv> i unno
<bqv> colemickens: oh, that rev and sha are completely out btw
<bqv> i just copied another one
<bqv> was hoping to use your script but it broke so
<colemickens> I figured they might be.
<bqv> colemickens: hm, my nix is broken again so i can't test that locally, but i'm guessing nixpkgs emacs has some patches that need to go away
<bqv> could you try the latest force push
<colemickens> It's building
<bqv> noice
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<bqv> adisbladis: by the way if you haven't seen explain-pause-mode, highly reccomend
<bqv> colemickens: did you commit the updated ref/sha?
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<colemickens> no, it won't work until the repo auto-updates. it's currently blocked on cage. I can do something about it in a bit.