<Church->
joepie91: Guess your blog got posted to lobste.rs :P
<aanderse>
i've found gitlab to be a sysadmins nightmare and a developers dream
<aanderse>
i play both roles... so i'm torn on the subject :\
<aanderse>
gitea is a sysadmins dream is that it is so lightweight and hardly any moving parts
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<ashkitten>
i was thinking gitlab wouldnt be so awful since nixos, is it still bad?
<aanderse>
ashkitten: sorry, i only sysadmin gitlab on debian
<aanderse>
my gitea is on nixos and gitlab on debian
<aanderse>
gitea is for personal projects so no real concern, gitlab is for work and needs to be working perfectly all the time... so that may skew my opinion
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<eyJhb>
aanderse: I have only played with GitLab a couple of times in the sysadmin role, it is no fun...
<eyJhb>
So many large things that need to work together, and hell to setup. Never got it working properly in my Docker containers.
<eyJhb>
Basically my PRs to GitLab are in the blind
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<sphalerite>
oh no, is freenode spam starting again?
<eyJhb>
sphalerite: just PM if you want more ;) :D
<sphalerite>
lol
<adisbladis>
sphalerite: Happend to me too the other day
<eyJhb>
Wait, did I miss office friday ?
<eyJhb>
Or is it today?
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<sphalerite>
today
<eyJhb>
Yay! Then I might be able to watch it
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<aanderse>
eyJhb: yeah, exactly that. pray nothing goes wrong with your setup because if it does... there goes your day
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<eyJhb>
Luckily I am not the one that is responsible for it at AAU aanderse :D
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<eyJhb>
,locate bin shutdown
<{^_^}>
Found in packages: systemd, sysvinit, molly-guard, systemd_with_lvm2
<eyJhb>
Is shutdown just a standard command? Anyone know where the source is located?
<__monty__>
You're probably looking for the one in sysvinit. Unless you're looking for systemctl poweroff?
<eyJhb>
Thanks __monty__ :D
<eyJhb>
Could we get BF in Nix?
<Taneb>
Probably
<gchristensen>
BF?
<Taneb>
brainfuck, I assume
<tilpner>
gchristensen: Did r13y.com survive your hardware problems?
<tilpner>
(Last update 2019-08-09)
<elvishjerricco>
Here's a kinda interesting question: Does a file that includes the hash of a GPL'd source tree have to be GPL'd?
<gchristensen>
hrm
<adisbladis>
elvishjerricco: IANAL but it doesn't make sense to me.
<elvishjerricco>
It seems plausible that a source tree's hash could be considered a derivative of the source tree
<elvishjerricco>
At least for hash algorithms that are considered secure
<sphalerite>
derivative _work_
<adisbladis>
Proof of derivate work
<adisbladis>
Just something that popped in to my head ^
<elvishjerricco>
sphalerite: What's the distinction?
<sphalerite>
IANAL but the term used in the licence is "derivative work". Derivative is an adjective, "work" is the noun. I imagine that could be important./
<sphalerite>
oh wait, not in GPLv3
<sphalerite>
never mind me…
<qyliss>
You still wouldn't be linking to the work, though?
<qyliss>
A program that downloads GPL source tarballs specifically wouldn't be bound by the GPL
<sphalerite>
"To “propagate” a work means to do anything with it that, without permission, would make you directly or secondarily liable for infringement under applicable copyright law, except executing it on a computer or modifying a private copy. Propagation includes copying, distribution (with or without modification), making available to the public, and in some countries other activities as well."
<qyliss>
Because it's not propagating it, or is it linked to it.
<sphalerite>
so I guess the question is whether producing a hash of something makes you liable for infringement under applicable copyright law.
<gchristensen>
it isn't reversable
<gchristensen>
having the hash is useless
<gchristensen>
and you can't copyright / patent numbers
<qyliss>
Oh, is the argument that the hash itself is a derivative work?
<qyliss>
gchristensen: you can if they're long enough
<sphalerite>
gchristensen: I don't think it has anything to do with reversability, deleting a function from a source file isn't any more reversible
<qyliss>
gchristensen: the Windows source code is a number
<gchristensen>
qyliss: the windows source code is idea and effort. it happens to exist as a number
<qyliss>
Sure
<sphalerite>
gchristensen: wasn't it that you can't _trademark_ numbers?
<gchristensen>
qyliss: vs. the encryption key for DVDs which is literalyl a number, and can't be whatever'd
<elvishjerricco>
If you post code like `fetchUrl { url = https://gplcode; sha256 = "..."; }`, it is clear to the licensor that you have produced content that is merely a postprocessing of their source code
<qyliss>
But if I have it, I can't encode it as a decimal number and email it to you
<adisbladis>
qyliss: By that definition everything is a number
<qyliss>
indeed
<elvishjerricco>
Does "fair use" apply here?
<gchristensen>
that doesn't have any bearing on this
<qyliss>
fair use is an unusual concept specific to US law too
<samueldr>
if you were to use a random number generator and coincidentally got the same output as their source, minus license and attribution, would it be GPL infringement? (not sure the thought experiement applies here though, just popped in my mind)
<gchristensen>
I do believe yes
<qyliss>
probably imo
<samueldr>
so, following that thought experiment, a trivial program, e.g. GNU hello, could be infringed by people doing it in parallel even though isolated?
<gchristensen>
copyright law does account for trivialities :)
<qyliss>
GNU hello is far from trivial
<gchristensen>
that is true :P
<samueldr>
GNU true, too, is far from trivial :)
<joepie91>
I feel like the overlooked factor with the hash thing is that for a work to be copyrighted, it needs to be creative in nature, not a purely 'mechanical' production; but that is precisely what a hash is! there's no trace of a creative work remaining in it
<gchristensen>
oh cool
<joepie91>
so on those grounds, unless you can argue that the input was crafted specifically to result in a given aesthetically pleasing hash or something (think an input that results in an all-zero hash), I don't think that the hash itself is considered a work under copyright law
<tilpner>
joepie91: Suppose I took a tarball of gcc source, and flipped every bit in it. The process is mechanical, certainly not creative. But the result is clearly derivative of gcc and should be subject to the GPL
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<tilpner>
So the one-way-ish property of hashing must be part of the explanation
<tilpner>
(s/explanation/distinction/)
<gchristensen>
it still is sorta resembles the same thing though, despite being mechanically processed
<gchristensen>
(see also binaries being GPL too)
<joepie91>
^
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<eyJhb>
ANyone who have some good multi-room audio solution?
<gchristensen>
hm?
<eyJhb>
gchristensen: like, e.g. living room, kitchen, etc. being able to stream Spotify from my phone. Looking into something Bluetooth, but .. Somewhat stuck, as I cannot find anything "somewhat cheap", which makes sense
<eyJhb>
So just wanted to hear, if anyone has some nice solutions they use themselves
<eyJhb>
It is incredible how fast drives accumulate. Just have 4xSSDs, 8x2.5" and a bunch of 3.5". Well, time to get out the drill and throw away some HDDs, SSDs are always welcome to stay!
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<andi->
eyJhb: run cables.
<adisbladis>
Bluetooth audio _sucks_
<adisbladis>
Avoid if you can :)
<adisbladis>
eyJhb: A raspberry pi with pulseaudio and maybe spotifyd sounds like it would solve your problem.
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<ashkitten>
is there a daemon that can run on my desktop as a upnp renderer for audio?
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<eyJhb>
Well, my audio perception isn't that good anymore andi- and adisbladis, so it is mostly okay... :/ If I had a house, or owned the apartment, then I would 100% own cables. But I can only run them now using cable trays/enclosures...
<elvishjerricco>
Ok I "fixed" my desktop environment issue. I had to switch lockers because light-locker is broken now. But all of them (probably including light-locker) has an issue where all windows will come in front on the locker, in full view despite the lock, if any window at all would try to come to the forefront while the locker was running. But only if compton was running. And if I don't use compton, I get terrible screen tearing -_-
<adisbladis>
eyJhb: I don't just mean horrible in terms of quality
<adisbladis>
But in terms of user experience
<elvishjerricco>
The "fix" was to surround the locker command with `systemctl stop --user compton.service` and `systemctl start --user compton.service`
<eyJhb>
adisbladis: how so?
<adisbladis>
eyJhb: Well... You're gonna have to find something with decent codecs
<adisbladis>
Which is super hard
<adisbladis>
Already
<adisbladis>
And then bluetooth is not very good at going through walls
<adisbladis>
As in it really cant
<adisbladis>
And when reception goes bad you'll have audible artifacts
<adisbladis>
Also there is really only one truly decent bluetooth codec
<adisbladis>
(hint; not apt-x)
<samueldr>
HSP!
<adisbladis>
samueldr: Nailed it!
<adisbladis>
Though HSP is not a codec
<adisbladis>
It's a BT profile
<adisbladis>
HSP uses SBC
<samueldr>
:)
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<elvishjerricco>
Does no one else have these issues with NixOS? Or am I just the only one using compton and a screen locker?
<adisbladis>
elvishjerricco: I use xsecurelock + compton
<adisbladis>
Works just fine
<adisbladis>
So does i3lock
<adisbladis>
But xsecurelock is "better"
<elvishjerricco>
adisbladis: Are you on 19.09? I only started having these issues when I upgraded from 19.03
<adisbladis>
elvishjerricco: Living that git master lifestyle
<elvishjerricco>
19.09 was released a not too long ago wasn't it?
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<samueldr>
~9 october; forked from master around a month before
<eyJhb>
adisbladis: small apartment, but I understand what you are saying. But I actually considered using a RPi as a basestation for the BT speakers, which I would then use e.g. the Sptotifyd to connect my phone to RPi, and the RPi would use the speakers
<eyJhb>
Does that sound so bad}
<eyJhb>
?
<eyJhb>
Because I have a hard time seeing, how cables could be managed with wired :(
<clever>
eyJhb: i have used blueman and pulseaudio on my laptop before, to impersonate a bluetooth speaker
<clever>
the phone didnt know the difference, and just blasted music out of the laptop speakers
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<joepie91>
hey, can someone check for me whether vscode is currently broken on stable? running it with `vscode --verbose` results in a "Error: Cannot find module '../build/Debug/pty.node'"
<joepie91>
and a stacktrace
<joepie91>
not sure if it's a local problem or a reproducible one
<MichaelRaskin>
joepie91: what is stable? release-19.09 branch?
<joepie91>
MichaelRaskin: oh, uh, 19.03. is 19.09 out already?
<MichaelRaskin>
Yes
<joepie91>
oh, huh.
<joepie91>
but yeah, 19.03 then
<MichaelRaskin>
There is obviously also the channel-vs-branch question!
<MichaelRaskin>
But 19.03 is EOL so hopefully this is trivial
<gchristensen>
samueldr: is there a simple way to make the nixos snowflake take up a full page when printed?
<joepie91>
MichaelRaskin: I guess I'll try to upgrade first.
<MichaelRaskin>
Oh, VScode is also unfree
<MichaelRaskin>
Hmm, 19.03 version seems to start for me
<MichaelRaskin>
joepie91: trying from a freshly-created user might give you some extra information
<eyJhb>
__monty__: did you ever diclouse where you are from?
<qyliss>
I've been thinking we should point the vscode attribute to vscodium
<qyliss>
I doubt anybody would care that the branding is different, but it would be free
<__monty__>
eyJhb: Sure, the place Dr. Evil was raised.
<eyJhb>
__monty__: oh then I am lost now...
<eyJhb>
Thought it was France or something, but I can't remember anything atm
<__monty__>
Pourquoi voudrais-tu savoir?
<eyJhb>
Just curious if you lived in Paris __monty__
<__monty__>
Nope, not Paris.
<eyJhb>
Damn
<eyJhb>
Playing with the thought of driving to Paris one weekend, just because
<__monty__>
I can recommend a showing of La Cantatrice Chauve by Ionescu. (High intermediate french required.)
<eyJhb>
Well, would probably go with someone. But I am not sure she would understand it, even if she has had basic french in highschool for two y ears
<__monty__>
We had 5+ years of middle school french under our belt *and* we'd read the play and it was still hard to understand.
<__monty__>
That's why I said high intermediate. *But* if you can manage understanding it it's brilliant.
<eyJhb>
Well, I myself would never be able to get anything
<eyJhb>
Also, I might be screwed going to Paris, I remember last time people not being glad having to speak english...
<gchristensen>
you should try it anyway
<gchristensen>
just go and try your best
<infinisil>
Is matrix kind of not working for anybody else right now? I can't start chats, times out and stuff
<gchristensen>
infinisil: right
<__monty__>
French people might be above averagely annoyed if you don't at least *try* to speak their language.
<gchristensen>
infinisil: worldofpeace spent 15 minutes telling me they were in a channel I asked them to be in, without actually being in it :P
<infinisil>
Cool thanks
<__monty__>
Are they still getting DDoSed?
<eyJhb>
I actually do thing they will get MORE annoyed if I try to speak french. Keep in mind, I have never spoken a single word, or ever had french before :p
<gchristensen>
worldofpeace: if nothing else, we can get you on freenode's webchat :)
* infinisil
joins #matrix to see if there's anything going on
<gchristensen>
...good luck :P
<__monty__>
Just learn a simple phrase like "Excusez moi, est-ce que vous parlez l'anglais?"
<infinisil>
I guess the good thing about matrix now is that all users not on the main matrix server can still talk to each other
<eyJhb>
My plan is more and more evolving into using my friend as a shield
<infinisil>
(right?)
<worldofpeace>
noo
<worldofpeace>
that's soo rough
<gchristensen>
worldofpeace: that message came 2m10s late
<worldofpeace>
it's not a dos, I think synapse is just having issue's again
<eyJhb>
Unless worldofpeace does not like my human shield idea
<worldofpeace>
omg
<worldofpeace>
ahhh
<__monty__>
eyJhb: Fun fact about french. The phrase "au jour d'aujourd'hui" (not super common tbqh) means "today" *thrice*!
<cransom>
huh. my remedial french only sees 2 todays in that. 'on the day of today'
<__monty__>
cransom: Etymology of "hui" by itself is latin hodie (spanish has hoy).
<cransom>
i don't get out my french much, but usually i lead with 'pardon, je parle francais comme un vache espanole. lentement s'il vous plait'
<qyliss>
Yesterday I made the mistake of telling somebody I didn't speak German in German
<qyliss>
They complemented my German and then carried on in German
<qyliss>
And I understood almost nothing
<qyliss>
Don't tell people you don't speak a language _in that language_ is a lesson I have now learned.
<__monty__>
Just exclaim "Ich verstehe Bahnhof!"
<qyliss>
And now I have learned the word "verstehe" :)
<MichaelRaskin>
__monty__: that's a dangerous phrase, they might believe you and ask to explain it!
<MichaelRaskin>
I guess in Switzerland it's OK, but in Germany you might not what claiming understanding of something railway-related
<__monty__>
It's a fun idiom though.
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<cransom>
oh hey, since we are into the german. i was watching f1 a while back and vettel said something like 'we make tiny breads compared to our forefathers' and it was a loose translation kind of thing. i looked around for etymology of that, but found nothing. any pointers? is that a thing?
<gchristensen>
cransom: niksnut is super in to f1, you could ask him :P
<spacekookie>
cransom: o.o ...not that I am aware of
<__monty__>
Kleine Brötchen backen vielleicht?
<cransom>
i'll have to see if i can dig up the interview somewhere then. it was a long time ago.
<__monty__>
Translates as "To set one's sights lower."
<gchristensen>
the first time somebody tried to pronounce my IRC nickname in meatspace, I switched to using `grahamc` and `gchristensen` :D
<gchristensen>
worldofpeace_: very straight cut, those seams.
<edef>
i didn't buy that one, actually. i really wanted one of the prior ones and failed to buy it out of sizing anxiety, and the one prior to *that* i bought and mis-sized
<worldofpeace_>
edef: I would totally walk around in one of your startup tees
<gchristensen>
btw adisbladis
<MichaelRaskin>
gchristensen: if someone tries to pronounce my entire GitHub username, I won't even have much pity for them
<edef>
because i did a dumb and forgot to include the last commit and was being lazy in the worst way
<worldofpeace_>
that's a head scratcher
<edef>
send-patch is a bit of an experiment in how much i can avoid touching the worktree
<edef>
it fetches origin/master, builds a git index from it, applies patches to the index and produces commits from those, and outputs the last one
<edef>
so the above command is "apply this bunch of patches to upstream and push the result to the git-series branch of the edef remote"
<edef>
and for now i just open the github PR creation link that github outputs on push
<edef>
and edit things in a text box in my browser like some kind of caveperson
<edef>
but i've got the GitHub integration bits loosely written already, they just need to have some UI
<edef>
and i probably ought to handle conflicts by checking out the worktree and stuff, and maybe write some code to ofborg my stuff ahead of submission
<edef>
overall i've got some optimisation to do but getting 8 PRs out in half an hour was pretty okay
<gchristensen>
if you like spiders, the hashtag "Arachtober" is a really beautiful series of photos
<edef>
and doing PR submission in one big chunk honestly feels a lot better than littering my workflow with upstreaming work every day
<edef>
i just do what i need to do for myself, and chuck it in the outbox dir to look at later when i feel i've got something solid
<worldofpeace_>
I believe dtz does the same thing with their submissions, in one big chunk. I've heard hub pull-request can allow you to open the PR in a text editor and it will open the PR link in your browser automatic
<pie__>
joepie91: oh no it looks like css is actually usable now...i might have to reconsider not prototyping GUIs in web stuff >_<
<edef>
worldofpeace_: so the hazard of hub pull-request is that last time i used it, it created a branch on NixOS/nixpkgs
<edef>
worldofpeace_: "you have push access on the upstream, so surely you want to make a branch there"
<worldofpeace_>
edef: I noticed the same thing, I think there's a bug that maybe some config you can setup will restrict
<edef>
but yeah, i could probably reasonably invoke hub pull-request after my branch is pushed to the right remote
<dtz>
Yep that's what I do, worldofpeace. And for the workflow reasons you say, edef.
<worldofpeace_>
edef: have to check hub docs, I haven't used it for the same reason
<worldofpeace_>
dtz: how do you get hub to not push branches to NixOS/nixpkgs, is there a config?
<edef>
i think i wanna do some stuff where i show the email-formatted patches under the scissors
<edef>
note that it won't push a branch to upstream if you've already pushed the local branch to a remote
<edef>
ie you can yank the gun away from being pointed at your foot
<edef>
but it is pointed at your foot by default
<edef>
i probably wanna have an easy way of writing notes for the cover letter right when i write the patches to outbox
<dtz>
Yeah, I'm always slightly nervous about that but it's never happened and.. I don't know if config, will look to see if I did anything special. I general only want to push anything to nixpkgs explicitly so may have configured some knob accordingly
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<edef>
my approach is definitely still evolving
<edef>
i literally finished the current iteration of my script today
<worldofpeace_>
ahh right edef, I did notice that.
<dtz>
Including patches below scissors would be nice, I abandon the pr (maybe an option to tell it to respect editor exit code, git has one ...) if patch subject isn't enough for me to write about it
<__monty__>
What's this scissors?
<edef>
--- >8 ---
<dtz>
But workflow is still more clunky than I'd like, for sure
<edef>
various git tools respect the scissors as "the actual diff starts after this"
<worldofpeace_>
eyJhb: matrix is like dying this week :D https://status.matrix.org/ claims nothing's up but there's performance issues
<worldofpeace_>
eyJhb: like a 1min of delay
<eyJhb>
WEll, it does state `Some systems are experiencing issues` but doesn't say anything is wrong else
<worldofpeace_>
ohh, guess that juts popped up
<worldofpeace_>
* just
<joepie91>
MichaelRaskin: it works after a 19.09 upgrade
<eyJhb>
worldofpeace_: hope it gets better soon. Off to bed now!
<worldofpeace_>
eyJhb: night 👏
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<adisbladis>
gchristensen: !
<adisbladis>
I feel like this idea is really "in the air" :)
<edef>
this = ?
<gchristensen>
adisbladis: :D
<gchristensen>
edef: verified builds
<gchristensen>
brr it is getting to the point that being outside requires more than a flannel shirt
<edef>
ah, yes
<gchristensen>
and it is a thick flannel!
<MichaelRaskin>
gchristensen: in what sense «verified»?
<MichaelRaskin>
Fixing reproducibility and cross-checking with independent setips??
<gchristensen>
setips?
<gchristensen>
yup
<gchristensen>
exactly
<MichaelRaskin>
setups, oops
<gchristensen>
the idea being hydra publishing a stream of hashes as it builds things, and other hydras doing the same thing, then r13y.com just has to slurp it up and compare
<ashkitten>
slormp
<ashkitten>
builds aren't currently signed, are they?
<gchristensen>
they are
<gchristensen>
there is a good chain of custody from the build farm to you. the question in apparently a lot of minds is how can we make sure the build farm is good
<MichaelRaskin>
gchristensen: if you want coverage, you coud support uploading hashes of some local builds from arbitrary registered users
<gchristensen>
yea
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<MichaelRaskin>
Of course the upload script would do some filtering, like only considering things having an attribute path in some commit in a well-known Nixpkgs branch (master or some of the release branches)
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hex404 is now known as hexa-
<averell>
would need some signing infrastructure for those hashes too to be worth something right?
<gchristensen>
a stream of narinfo URLs from hydra would already be signed, but otherwise yeah
<MichaelRaskin>
averell: Well, if users need to register, that means that uploads require authentication
<MichaelRaskin>
If you have two streams always agreeing except on urxvt, this definitely tells you something
<averell>
yes, but i meant if it's supposed to help not having to trust the build farm you need independently signed uploads
<gchristensen>
right
<MichaelRaskin>
Actually, in that case you need even more — you need a local system to keep track of data provenance in case of substitution
<MichaelRaskin>
For signing we could just use nix-serve and upload generated narinfo files
<averell>
this could totally be "buildCoin" or something :)
<MichaelRaskin>
Right, what we lack is an incentive to submit bougs hashes for known-non-reproducible packages