waleee-cl has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
drakonis1 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.6]
<pie__>
tbh i kind of wish kde would increase the quality of existingfeatures a bit
<pie__>
gchristensen: im still ranty that that is our tofu workflow
<pie__>
well ok they do in fact seem to be working on fixing stuff too
<pie__>
im not sure all the obscure little corners are documented
endformationage has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.6]
<sphalerite>
at what point should a bash script be moved from the input line to a script file?
<sphalerite>
cd /backup/.zfs/snapshot; for dir in * ; do [[ $dir < 2018-10-17 ]] && continue; mount --bind $dir /mnt ; ( cd /mnt ; echo -n "$dir " ; date ; time borg --progress create /backup/lugn-test::$dir . ); umount /mnt ; done
<sphalerite>
I often end up creating monstrosities like this and never putting them in a script file
<jackdk>
when you start hitting ^R to pull them out of your shell history?
<sphalerite>
hm, they're usually one-off things
<eyJhb>
sphalerite: I usually write them in a file, once it is more than one action, or multiple pipes
Jackneill has joined #nixos-chat
buckley310 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
buckley310 has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis_ has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<samueldr>
I really need to lay it thick that "the user needs to be in control of every electronic device they own" in my talk
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
<worldofpeace>
like that is really just unpleasant, basically "you can't get money unless you do it through us". lol, is this the mafia? it's just an app on an appstore
Jackneill has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<worldofpeace>
like really, makes me think they use opensource for what works for them, as its own disposible resource for revenue, and you don't have to pay anyone or give thanks
<samueldr>
here it's most likely rules being applied all wrong for no good reasons other than "the process" not being defined enough
<samueldr>
and absolutely no way to get in touch with people involved in "the process"
<samueldr>
though yeah, leaves a terrible taste in the mouth
<samueldr>
the "Payments Policy", in isolation, in the context of an app store, is not that bad for the end-user; it allows the user to have some confidence in the processes for paying. It's likely that there's protection and such for purchases...
<samueldr>
... but that's in isolation; in reality the situation is that I may not want to have "an app store" and "payment policies" attached to it
<worldofpeace>
Exactly, in that sense it seems sensible. But here it's for sure no good reason, and it's almost always not great getting in contact with a real person in this situation.
<worldofpeace>
* almost not great -> almost always the case you can't contact a real person
<worldofpeace>
yep, been in contact with them. it's pretty exciting for me since I'm partial to meson
<drakonis>
a bit surprising to see nix on freebsd again
<drakonis>
gotta check how many packages need patching to build
<drakonis>
importing patches from ports would perhaps make it easier to catch up
psyanticy has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<joepie91>
samueldr: dunno. Google has made a few too many bundling-related missteps for me to still assume good faith here
<samueldr>
as I said "in isolation" removing all other variables
<joepie91>
they reaaaaaally like bundling services (payments and app distribution, in this case), despite multiple antitrust cases over exactly that thing
<tokudan>
pretty much everytime I tell someone about the good things about building a system with nix they answer with "hey, puppet or ansible do exactly the same"... and then i need to tell them about all the shortcomings of those, instead of talking about nix...
<samueldr>
here I'm not assuming good faith, it's likely bad process and they know it, and they won't change it
<samueldr>
what's a few hiccups with some projects vs. all those that won't or don't have the tribune to speak up
<gchristensen>
tokudan: hmmm maybe we can find a way to talk about how, sure, but you can also runit all locally and copy the result over
<gchristensen>
or maybe, talking about how undo is trivial
<samueldr>
is it a good analogy to say that the /nix/store are like git commits compared to puppet/ansible/most other solutions which are like "final copy 2 -- real.docx"
<samueldr>
for the actual deployed artifacts
<gchristensen>
oh cool
<samueldr>
I don't have enough relevant experience with the other solutions to know for sure
<samueldr>
my experience with puppet and similar have been "what the heck I can't do that with the limited built-in thing?"
<samueldr>
where "that" is "some things"
<tokudan>
gchristensen, yeah, what the point that i want to make there is that nix is not a hack to accomplish something like ansible and puppet and just modify state. nix actually creates the full state from the config
<gchristensen>
right
<tokudan>
puppet and ansible rely so much on undefined state that it's just ugly
<tokudan>
if've seen people that love ansible tell me I'd have to reinstall a system just to use their role on a system, because apparently that system was broken
<tokudan>
it had some additional packages installed that the role wasn't compatible with
<cransom>
i was using ansible the other day for some personal stuff and it just made me feel bad because a) it wasn't nix and b) why am i bothering with that when i'm capable of writing shorter, more concise, better bash scripts for the remedial system changes i'm doing.
drakonis has quit [Quit: Leaving]
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis_ has joined #nixos-chat
waleee-cl has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
Jackneill has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
drakonis_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
drakonis has joined #nixos-chat
Jackneill has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
drakonis_ has joined #nixos-chat
drakonis has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
vika_nezrimaya has joined #nixos-chat
<sphalerite>
How do DHTs work in practice? I don't understand how a node discovers its first peer.
<joepie91>
sphalerite: it generally gets 'bootstrapped' in some way; a central peer discovery server (trackers for bittorrent, used to be an IRC server for Bitcoin), hardcoded "seed IPs" in metadata, etc.
<joepie91>
some experimental implementations have tried a bruteforce search of the IPv4 space, I don't think any real-world deployments ever used that though
<gchristensen>
and ipv4 is dead anyway
<sphalerite>
joepie91: hm ok… so what about bittorrent magnet URLs containing only a hash? How do those get bootstrapped?
<gchristensen>
maybe your client has some built-in tracker lists
<joepie91>
sphalerite: your client probably already knows about other peers from other torrents
<joepie91>
mechanisms may vary by client but I'd wager that it uses those to look it up
<joepie91>
you'll find that most magnet URLs from torrent sites include trackers though
<joepie91>
precisely to make sure they can always get bootstrapped
<sphalerite>
in this case I entered a magnet URL with only a hash in a fresh transmission installation which I'd never used before
<sphalerite>
and it worked
<joepie91>
no idea :) maybe transmission has some hardcoded trackers like gchristensen suggested?
<sphalerite>
that's pretty fancy
<gchristensen>
ransmission-2.94]$ rg 6881
<sphalerite>
it's not listing any trackers for the torrent :/
<sphalerite>
Also, are there any things I should be seeding? :p
<qyliss>
I seed Qubes and Tails
<gchristensen>
linux ISOs? :)
<qyliss>
Important things to be easily available
<sphalerite>
qyliss: ooh, good calls.
<sphalerite>
gchristensen: it's a shame the nixos ones aren't really practical for bittorrent :^)
<infinisil>
intensional store might improve this
<infinisil>
s/might/should
<sphalerite>
infinisil: I don't really see how, since the images will still be updated automatically
<infinisil>
Ah right, iso's are a single file
<sphalerite>
if nothing else, the copy of nixpkgs in the image will change with each channel advance
<gchristensen>
it could maybe work if peers don't have to be established often, and the protocol isn't too chatty
<gchristensen>
it has to be really fast, though
<gchristensen>
the hardest part is it has to issue conclusive 404's as fast as possible, while preserving the invariant that a given binary cache has the entire closure of everything in it
<qyliss>
. o O ( magnet: flakes )
<infinisil>
We should have corn flakes for breakfast at nixcon :P
<gchristensen>
lol
<infinisil>
And maybe it snows, so we can watch the snow flakes fall while we eat corn flakes while we install nix flakes :D