gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
<jasongrossman> Those are most of the reasons I've given up on Apple.
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<Ralith> colemickens: click the bell icon at the top-right of riot
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<infinisil> Psyonix was bought by Epic..
<drakonis> yes
<infinisil> Guess I won't have to mess around with steam controller settings and such anymore, because I won't be able to play it at all
<drakonis> isn't that just exciting
<drakonis> apparently epic said they're not going to pull out rocket league from steam
<drakonis> but i bet my sweet ass that steam support will get worse as time goes
<samueldr> though, this doesn't mean it won't stop supporting linux/macOS platforms :/
<drakonis> epic has a complicated relationship with non windows platforms
<samueldr> no epic store there, no pressure to have rocket league updated on those platforms :(
<drakonis> that's the thing
<samueldr> it's not complicated, sweeney plays the victim and continues targetting windows :/
<drakonis> epic :|
<infinisil> I doubt the steam version will work for long
<infinisil> I'm very disappointed
<drakonis> tim sweeney..........
<samueldr> >> thereafter it will continue to be supported on Steam for all existing purchasers
<samueldr> >> Anyone who owns Rocket League through Steam can still play it and can look forward to continued support
<samueldr> but yeah, windows surely will see continued support
<drakonis> the question is, for how long are they willing to keep supporting steam?
<samueldr> I wouldn't bet on other platforms :/
<samueldr> it's probably not an issue to keep supporting steam for windows, they already said with a thin veil that its time in the steam store is limited
<infinisil> samueldr: "can still play it" could mean you can still play the offline version and it won't get updates
<samueldr> that's unlikely
<infinisil> "continued support" might mean they still respond to bug reports or whatever
<samueldr> (for windows at least)
<drakonis> the really bad thing is that tim sweeney yells about how evil microsoft is, but wont bother to improve non windows support
<samueldr> let's not add too much FUD, considering even the continued Linux support uncertainties is FUD already
<infinisil> I hope I can at least get it to work with my steam controller once again before it stops working on linux
<infinisil> They broke it recently and I haven't been able to play since
<drakonis> run with wine
<infinisil> I'm not sure how much better it would work there..
<infinisil> I mean, the controller works *mostly*, but I think their steam configurator is messed up
<infinisil> Leading to me not being able to assign any buttons to e.g. driving forward
<infinisil> But I can navigate the menus just fine with the controller
<infinisil> Guess I'll give it another try, maybe they fixed it..
<infinisil> I removed all the steam state too, I'm very hopeful this will fix it
<drakonis> there was some input device related work with sdl for wine some versions ago
<drakonis> maybe it'd work better under wine?
<drakonis> i don't know
<infinisil> I'd rather not run a game natively supported for linux under wine..
<drakonis> you'll soon have to do that anyways, may as well get used to it
<infinisil> I won't play it anymore if that happens
<infinisil> I'd rather support devs that make their stuff work on linux
<drakonis> likewise
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<Arahael> infinisil: I think the future of games on linux is probably on flatpak.
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<gchristensen> anyone looking for a short-term, paid, nix-adjacent job? https://discourse.nixos.org/t/job-implement-a-nix-fmt-formatter/2819
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* joepie91 ponders
<joepie91> gchristensen: is zimbatm on IRC?
<gchristensen> one sec
<gchristensen> joepie91: yeah, as "zimbatm" :) PM away
<joepie91> thanks
<gchristensen> (they're also in #nixos-dev)
<joepie91> oh, right :)
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<averell> pretty neat. amazing nobody built that yet.
<gchristensen> oh and they're here now too
<zimbatm> hai
<averell> the non-config part is very religious imo :) good defaults are cool too, and it could fit more repos, thus actually spreading adoption.
<gchristensen> an important lesson I have learned from Go and Rust is having no options is a benefit, and options means many wasted hours of discussion
<gchristensen> for no real reason
<averell> rustfmt is configurable, no?
<averell> i get that google wants one standard and they had it from the getgo
<andi-> I am sure that at some point you'll need an `# nonixfmt` kind annotation on some part.. but that isn't really configuration
<gchristensen> oh is it? I guess I just wished hard enough
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<averell> well, one reason is that people have to have a huge history-destroying whitespace commit, if for example they use different line lengths
<averell> but actually i'm not affected, so ultra long term that's probably best
<gchristensen> yeah, that is going to happen no matter what from having no formatting to having some formatting
<averell> just not very pragmatic
<gchristensen> not sure I agree
<averell> that people would opt to configure rather than reformat? or that that is a choice they should make (like, community utility > personal kind of thing)?
<gchristensen> I'm not sure I agree that "having options" and "having no options" falls anywhere on the pragmatism scale
<averell> ok, maybe that is the wrong word, just running the bin and eating the changes is at least quick.
<simpson> The point is to define a single formatting convention, presumably; the point of having a binary which idempotently implements that convention is that we are practical people.
<gchristensen> I'm also not sure I agree that "having options" will allow any existing nix code to make it through the formatter unchang8ed
<averell> but you could have a lot less changes. and the standard will probably be what is most popular in nixpkgs if i had to guess.
<averell> the discussions about what is default will be settled that way either way.
<gchristensen> possibly so
<samueldr> it would be "with reduced changes" for whatever style that orga used I guess
<gchristensen> at any rate, I am certain there will be plenty of opportunity for this topic to be bikeshedded
<samueldr> the hardest technical part will have been handled; being a loss-less translator
<averell> right :) i'm guessing if there really were a pressing need, a fork would eventually appear. but having autoformat will be great in any case.
<gchristensen> maintaining a fork to get configurability sounds like the ideal level of commitment required
<samueldr> I guess that if a project really wants to use its custom style, it would be relatively trivial to have an overlay where nix-fmt is their own fork :)
<samueldr> I mean, nix helps for that
<jasongrossman> "Configuration is the root of all evil." - Axel Liliencranz (IIRC), creator of the fish shell.
<gchristensen> I'd love to see a research project of incremental formatters based on patch files
<averell> There are a lot of roots of all evil.
<gchristensen> we must prune their GC root and garbage collect them as often as possible
<averell> Can you have really have a nix store that is purely good philosophically?
<averell> i guess that is the allowUnfree flag
<jasongrossman> averell: There are indeed a lot of roots of all evil.
<joepie91> roots of all evil are the root of all evil
<gchristensen> is there some sort of philosophy we could lean on to say GC roots in general are the root of all evil, due to an over-attachment to things
<Taneb> GC roots are the root of all evil by virtue of being the roots of everything that sticks around longer than we'd like
<jasongrossman> Yeah, most (all?) forms of Buddhism say it's important to concentrate on the evanescence of all things.
<jasongrossman> So I guess the idea that anything can't be garbage collected is illusory.
<Taneb> We can always garbage collect the entire computer, unless it's on the cloud
<gchristensen> when did The Onion stop doing Satire and start doing real news? https://www.theonion.com/man-s-garbage-to-have-much-more-significant-effect-on-p-1819578908
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<zimbatm> just catching up on history
<zimbatm> averell: I'm not sure if the line length should be the responsibility of `nix fmt`
<joepie91> gchristensen: I think they gave up on satire when the reign of Trump started
<joepie91> there's a point where you can't out-joke reality anymore
<gchristensen> heh
<gchristensen> the part about "50-60 years" :'D
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<averell> zimbatm: line length could be an exception, i think it even is with gofmt?
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<infinisil> Regarding Rocket League + Steam Controller, no luck
<infinisil> Oh I have one more idea, testing..
<infinisil> Nope, doesn't work
<infinisil> I now deleted all steam state, all rocket league state, redownloaded everything, but it still doesn't work
<infinisil> I give up
<Taneb> I presume steam controller works with other things?
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<infinisil> Taneb: Yup
<infinisil> And it even works for menu navigation inside the game, but for actually controlling the gameplay, nope
<Taneb> That's super frustrating
<Taneb> Not something in the Rocket League options, like "use keyboard as controls" somewhere?
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<infinisil> Taneb: Nope, the previous way to configure buttons is just gone
<Taneb> infinisil: frustrating
<Taneb> I have both a steam controller and Rocket League, I might give it a go tonight
<infinisil> Ah that would be nice
<Taneb> And if I fail I might give Neir Automata another go
<infinisil> I'll probably go back to more minecraft
<infinisil> Although, every time I play minecraft I get so absorbed and can't stop for a while..
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<pie_> would be nice if we started doing stuff like "get me a development environment for this" for nixpkgs packages
<infinisil> That's what nix-shell is supposed to be for
<infinisil> and it works for most packages
<ar> /46/37
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<pie_> oh
<pie_> i didnt have anything particularly concrete in mind, but also maybe fetching a copy of the lib from github repo pointed to by src or something
<pie_> I guess a function could be written to do that
<adisbladis> pie_: You can already do: nix-shell -A package and then run unpackPhase to get sources
<pie_> oh right
<pie_> i posed the question wrong :p
<samueldr> could it be scaffolding for e.g. `projectify new rails` so it'd setup an empty rails project using whatever rails does + the nix stuff required to do the thing
<samueldr> ?*
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<andi-> nix-shell -p railsTemplate; unpackPhase; nix-build?
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<samueldr> I don't know if it's what pie_ even had in mind :)
<samueldr> though in my mind, anything you can do on rails new should be doable, so maybe a tad more involved, but minimally so
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* tilpner thinks the bot should just take over the account automatically for safe-keeping
<infinisil> hehe, was a suggestion by gchristensen
<infinisil> that would be nasty
<gchristensen> yeah
<tilpner> Yeah, it might do more harm than good. But it'd be fun
<infinisil> definitely :P
<gchristensen> and it'd make me look bad
<infinisil> Does it? nobody would know it was {^_^}
<infinisil> Ah, I guess I'd have to change the nick to claim it, I think
<infinisil> Not sure how that works exactly actually
<drakonis_> you can ghost someone
<drakonis_> it'll disconnect them off the network
<gchristensen> anyway, we're not going to do that
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<andi-> I'd recommend the user to switch to certificate based authentication..
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<drakonis_> i looked at some of my old logs and geez i'm so embarassing
<colemickens> jfc what percentage of azure outtages are due to dns at this point?
<manveru> man... that mikutter doc consists to 80% of lame jokes :P
<joepie91> colemickens: it's never DNS
<joepie91> :P
<gchristensen> (if you can't operate DNS, you shouldn't operate any distributed database more complicated)
<joepie91> lol
<manveru> " Recently, the deaths of young people due to mikutter development are increasing. Anyway, it's because of the spread of Mastodon. "
<manveru> anw, finally got it to run, it just crashes now when trying to add a twitter account, i consider that success enough for today :)
<manveru> who wants to use twitter anyway :P
<gchristensen> what is this about?
<manveru> mikutter
<manveru> it has some security issues, so i wanted to fix those
<gchristensen> ah found it. never heard of it
<manveru> not surprising
<manveru> the author wanted to inflict the pain of not knowing japanese on english speakers, like he was forced to learn english to use foreign software :P
<gchristensen> hehe
<manveru> from google translate
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<andi-> grml.. a few days of hacking and building wrapper libs for Nix and it turns out I used the wrong field in my nix patch.. renaming all the intermediate layers because of a 5 character change