gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
<andi-> wow
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<samueldr> the plane from toronto was even 25 minutes early at Québec!
<andi-> how nice of them.. our plane was 1h delayed from london -> FRA which is just a 1h flight..
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<samueldr> 1h10 flight from toronto to Québec
<samueldr> (normally)
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<infinisil> andi-: you mean like when a commit changed the release notes it should read the diff?
<andi-> infinisil: not it, a human :P
<andi-> or at least prominently display those in the PR
<andi-> and link to them (even if not on GitHub, and that is what kills most heuristics I believe)
<Lisanna> I wish I could upgrade *just* my upload speed on my internet plan
<gchristensen> same :( for every doubling of my download speed I only get 10mbps increase on my upload.
<andi-> Same at almost all places on this planet.. I have that fixed now but that means I can no longer move :D
* etu got 250/250, it's quite nice
<Lisanna> etu wow
<etu> I know it may sound alien to people living in a !nordic country
<etu> But it's far from the top speeds that are available to private home customers nowadays. One provider sells 10/10 gigabit
<etu> Another one is silly with 1200mbit, which doesn't make sense because what is that speed even? Nobody have hardware for that unless they have 10gig cards
<andi-> well it matches the stupid wifi standards that are also advertising 1200mbit/s on hardware that just has a 1Gbps port :)
<ekleog> etu: wow, in which country do you live? (and how much does that cost? :p)
<ekleog> I mean, 10/10Gbps for consumer internet is something I've never heard of
<ekleog> andi-: the wifi advertising 1200Mbps is usually counting it before addition of the collision avoidance / detection mechanisms, so it's what actually transits on the waves but it's much less than the actual throughput
<andi-> ekleog: I know but that is why I think the advertisements is bullshit
<ekleog> well, it's technically non bullshit :D
<andi-> it is made to confuse the consumers
<andi-> the tech isn't made to confuse the costumers but some people try really hard to use that for marketing (bigger is better right?)
<ekleog> like, should you count before everything, after CA/CD, after layer2 headers, after IP headers, after TCP headers?
<etu> ekleog: Sweden
<ekleog> what size of packets?
<ekleog> etu: nice :)
<adisbladis> ekleog: My parents are paying ~16eur per month for gigabit (also sweden)
<andi-> ekleog: yeah, that is always the same.. I used to work at / run an ISP for a few years.. Everyone uses the scale that fits their expectation..
<ekleog> heh ^^
<ekleog> adisbladis: wow nice
<ekleog> france is like 50€/mo for 1G/300M (once passed the initial “come here” offer)
<__monty__> We pay that for 30M/5M in belgium with 150GB/month or you go back to dialup speeds...
<ekleog> wow… in big cities or in <100khab “country”? (in france fiber is only coming to <100khab cities)
<ekleog> +only now
<andi-> Even if we are talking fiber ther are are a few competing things on how to properly connect people. Usually it is heavily oversubscribed and those 1G/1G you are being advertised is shared between a few hundred other customers..
<andi-> It just doesn't matter that much since the GPON stuff they usually use has more capacity then the usual DOCSIS based copper strips or even DSL..
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<joepie91> the big benefit of fiber is that the capacity limit is in the hardware on both ends, not the fiber itself
<__monty__> ekleog: 30k people city. But this is belgium we're talking. We don't really have metropolises.
<joepie91> (for the most part anyway)
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<etu> __monty__: Wow, data limits on non-wireless connections?
<etu> __monty__: That's weird to me
<andi-> joepie91: yeah
* etu had a usb-stick for 4G with "unlimited" data like 6 years ago.
<etu> I once hit the cap of unlimited and got dialup speed :D
<etu> (unlimited == 100G/month)
<etu> They was forced to change that later on
<andi-> joepie91: still I do not believe that GPON is a proper solution.. it is just pushing DOCSIS to a new medium (blantly speaking).. It is a step forward for sure.. I was in the business of laying fiber, splicing, buying, configuring and automating the whole booking back then and it didn't make any significant financial impact to use GPON vs run >2 fibers to each customer. Sure it takes longer to initially
<andi-> splice but give you more flexibility later on.
<joepie91> andi-: GPON is the FttC thing, right?
<joepie91> (as opposed to FttH/FttP)
<andi-> joepie91: well that basically means they run "proper" network to a curb somewhere and from there they use strings of fiber that they optically split on every residency / appartment.
<andi-> so that means there are multiple customers on the same optical segment. If one of the customers decides to connect a broken laser the whole street/segment breaks.
<joepie91> hm, not sure how that's set up here
<gchristensen> shine a weird laser in your fiber and see if your neighbors complain
<joepie91> all I know is that I have a 'fiber termination unit' sitting before my router
<joepie91> lol
<andi-> hrhr
<joepie91> gchristensen: I don't think that would bring a positive contribution to my pool of potential holiday cat feeders
<gchristensen> don't claim responsibility of course
<gchristensen> "has the internet been weird for you today, too?"
<joepie91> lol
<andi-> joepie91: it might help you bond with them! You are having the smae issues!
<joepie91> hehe
<joepie91> "yeah, I've made sure that my cat is fed when I'm away, by using a laser..."
<andi-> hrhr
<andi-> they wont have time to waste on the internet
<joepie91> hrm. I'm unfocused again today
<ekleog> __monty__: good point :)
<joepie91> time for some rimworld I guess
<ekleog> andi-: what I really dislike in GPON is that some providers embed the en/decryption point in the home router… meaning it's no longer possible to get rid of it :(
<andi-> ekleog: I didn't come across that.. Probably because I always wanted to give people a choice of device. I myself never used one of those off-the-shelve things for my home and whenever I touch themt hey feel broken by design
<ekleog> (don't know the name in english… optical termination stuff?)
<joepie91> it's called an FTU here
<joepie91> Fiber Termination UNit
<joepie91> but that seems to not be a common term
<joepie91> Unit*
<andi-> anyone here familiar with Coccinelle? I would like to match patterns where a non-negative value originating from a define (EBADMSG, EWHATEVER) is being used as return value or comparison.
<andi-> i have seen FTU being used.. but I forgot so much in just about a year.. that is incredible
<ekleog> grep -r 'return E[A-Z]*' ? :°
<ekleog> grep -RE*
<andi-> ekleog: well the issue is that sometimes it is like `-r == EFOO`
<andi-> and sometimes the return value is indirected via a variable that might be negated later on..
<ekleog> oh, missed “or comparison”
<andi-> or even worse `in_set(-f, EFOO, EBAR, EBAZ)`
<andi-> so macro expansion would be a nice feature ;)
<ekleog> oh, I guess coccinelle is more powerful than I thought, if it can handle that :)
<andi-> not sure about the macros but the other patterns should be possible.. It is just that I use it once a year and then waste a day for a glorified regexp...
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<tazjin> ugh, I've been trying to get this new Rust GUI library's examples to run in a nix-shell
<tazjin> it's loading X libs dynamically at runtime
<tazjin> so it tries to find them during the build phase, and if they exist it will refer to the correct paths, apparently when they don't it guesses at a path at runtime
<tazjin> so building it without the required libs doesn't actually fail, but it won't start :/
<andi-> oh that pain yes.. i wrote a tool that does audio -> video animations for things a few orders more fancy then ambilight and it was painful to work with at first.. Can't remember what I did.. I think I had to expose some env var so that it find the correct libGl
<joepie91> would be a lot funnier if intelligence agencies didn't systematically abuse their powers...
<gchristensen> yes
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<gchristensen> I think my coffee is broken
<andi-> how can coffee be broken? Does it taste like tea?
<gchristensen> well it isn't working
<andi-> What part of it? It started to be a ritual thingy for me a few years ago.. It doesn't keep me awake or anything anymore..
<gchristensen> I'm very sleepy :)
<gchristensen> and feel like a junky here, going for coffee so often
<andi-> take a walk?
<gchristensen> rainy and dreary :(
<andi-> I walked throug the building complex to floklis place to grab a coffee.. takes me at least 5min and a few meters of movement ^^
<andi-> I had big plans for the day but it also rains here..
<andi-> not very welcoming the outside world
<joepie91> gchristensen: sufficient lighting where you're sitting? light levels have a lot of effect on wakefulness
<joepie91> (I may or may not have 60 watts of LEDs on my ceiling)
<gchristensen> it is a Regus office :)
<gchristensen> (so, no ;))
<joepie91> regus offices that bad?
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<gchristensen> I'd like to put a bounty of some Nix swag in exchange for making our default kernel pretty slim, with lots of stuff in modules so I can compile custom kernels faster
<andi-> I was thinking about a swag bounty program for "proper" PRs earlier when eelco mentioned the hacktoberfest spam...
<andi-> wasn't ekleog involved in such a kernel expression redesign?
<gchristensen> whenever I watch the kernel compile I dream about turning off the options for all the stuff I don't use.
<gchristensen> like pretty sure this system doesn't need any sort of gpu code
<andi-> oh yeah.. It feels silly compiling a wifi stack, bt, irda, $foo for a server that will only ever do computation & network io :/
<ekleog> andi-: ISTR I talked a bit about it but don't remember actually writing code for it
<andi-> that is all I meant
<ekleog> but my most recent recollection is it was on the topic gchristensen opened for the network card driver :°
<andi-> On a different topic: how do you guys organzie your workspaces? Always working remotely on some server? Always having it on the laptop? How do you handle switching from laptop to desktop? SSH to the laptop via "secure" channel? I am currently connecting to my desktop for a bunch of tasks that I have there in a tmux session.. Signing commits doesn't work then so that bothers me a bit..
<Taneb> How hard is it to customize a linux kernel? It's not something I've ever tried to do
<gchristensen> I always work on my laptop, and treat any other machine as a remote server for specific tasks, andi-
<joepie91> andi-: SSHd on desktop, I grab what I need when I need it by rsyncing it from/to my laptop
<joepie91> most of my work is on my desktop
<joepie91> I only really use my laptop on the go
<ekleog> Taneb: It's not really hard on gentoo where the system is actually designed to make you customize it. For NixOS, ISTR there was a PR to make kernel options an attrset, so it may be easier now, but there's still no equivalent of `make menuconfig` that I know of
<LnL> why doesn't signing commits work?
<andi-> LnL: key material isn't with/on the desktop
<gchristensen> gpg-agent + socat _dies_
<andi-> O.O
<gchristensen> there we go
<andi-> unencrypted? :P
<andi-> (i know socat can do TLS)
<gchristensen> I mean, do you really need any more than netcat
<andi-> openbsd netcat is also able to do TLS
<gchristensen> darn
<andi-> I guess I'll just stick to my current workflow. It does work for me
<andi-> I just always feel it is suboptimal..
<andi-> Really only need the desktop for superior screen experience..
<andi-> and as a build slave..
* andi- wonders if build slave is still allowed these days
* gchristensen usually prefers the term remote builder
<clever> underpaid build worker? :P
* Taneb calls them "(remote) build machines" (I think the nix manual does too)
<andi-> ok, my bad then..
<gchristensen> no worries
<gchristensen> I guess with a tinc/zeriotier/wireguard proxy, I could always have my home machines as remote builders
<andi-> I have wireguard between my notebook and a few servers and there is still a legacy tinc connection for a larger group of people that works as sensible fallback..
<andi-> pairsed with babel announcing the addresses.. it works well :-)
<gchristensen> I want to play with it and set it up, but I won't be able to touch my home network machines for some time now
<andi-> How is your hand? Still having pain? Totally wanted to ask you last week..
<gchristensen> right hand is much better than the left! surger yhas definitely helped. being gone from my nice keyboards for a week now has been very tough, though. the microsoft sculpt keyboard here at the office is pretty good though.
<gchristensen> my left hand needs surgery and it shows. I have that one on November 13 :)
<andi-> thats good news.. I had my kinesis with me last week for typing in the evenings / that one evening where I just needed to rest... My fingers start aching after a few days of the laptop keyboards.. Mostly around the joints :/ Should probably also see someone about it..
<gchristensen> yes, probably :)
<andi-> whenever I do not have "fullmotion" of a finger for typing it starts.. so having proper keyboards definitly helps
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<maurer> andi-: See someone, also consider sunlight/vitd, this was an issue for me in a similar situation
<andi-> maurer: I had sunlight all week last week (for a few minutes between subway and venue ;-)
<andi-> Yeah, maybe that is also it..
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<joepie91> samueldr: your package search is missing 18.09
<samueldr> joepie91: yes
<samueldr> also woefully out of date
<joepie91> ah, not auto-updated?
<samueldr> nah, I intended it to be only a demo for getting it on the nixos.org website :/
<samueldr> hoping that it would be there only for a few days or weeks at most :/
<samueldr> though considering everything I should probably dust it off, make it "my own thing" and as a permanently available and updated service on my domain
<joepie91> samueldr: would be appreciated :P
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<andi-> has anyone played around with an esp32? I'd like to have a nix compatible buildtoolchain...
<samueldr> (remebered that passing through the logs)
<samueldr> no idea how/if it works
<joepie91> andi-: ESP8266 stuff works with platformio
<joepie91> I'd expect ESP32 to be similar
<joepie91> (platformio is in nixpkgs)
<andi-> joepie91: would be nice to have a `buildESP32Package` style function in nixpkgs that I can point to my sources... :-)
<andi-> I know platformio but a proper env would be nice
<andi-> also not from a binary source
<joepie91> andi-: I mean, afaik, it's not really much different from "use the xtensa gcc toolchain, link with the ESP32 SDK, and then flash to your microcontroller"
<joepie91> so it should be relatively trivial to produce such a function
<andi-> yeah, I am currently trying to build the toolchain from source
<joepie91> (minus the flashing)
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<infinisil> If somebody likes super weird youtube videos, here's something for ya: https://youtu.be/DP3yivaOcJA
<drakonis1> this looks like avant garde cg
<drakonis1> https://www.youtube.com/user/cyriak more weird youtube videos
<infinisil> Yeah cyriak does cool stuff
<drakonis1> real quick dumb question, why isn't there a way to boot into a FHS root composed from the store?
<drakonis1> less offtopic-y and more derail-y
<drakonis1> the contents of the booted system overlaid on the root
<infinisil> drakonis1: My guess: There's more to something bootable than just a bunch of files you can chroot into. Bootloader, init system, drivers, stuff like that, maybe
<drakonis1> fair enough
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<joepie91> when running `sudo whatever` from within a nix-shell, it's not supposed to magically escape the shell and lose all of the shell's binaries in the PATH, right?
<joepie91> just because of the sudo?
<joepie91> (Nix on Ubuntu)
<samueldr> I think ubuntu's sudo reduces the PATH to known entries
<samueldr> (or simply strips the user's env)
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<samueldr> check for env_reset or secure_path in sudoers
<samueldr> though, joepie91, I haven't validated
<joepie91> samueldr: yep, both exist - thanks :)