gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
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<jasongrossman> Synthetica: Thanks for doing that.
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<samueldr> ouch, forgetting --enable-kvm is brutal
<samueldr> with qemu
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<samueldr> though the performances weren't *that* bad, I was wondering if there was something wrong with the installer image :/
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<samueldr> only nit I dislike is how it prefers keeping the vendor logo there
<samueldr> I may look into the grub patches for my own use
<samueldr> though, I guess if the i915 modesets aren't made, if grub has shown a boot menu, it will stay on until gdm is shown?
<samueldr> I like the idea of not showing grub (though it can be accessed through keeping shift pressed) if the last boot was successful
<samueldr> they define successful as a user logged-in and had a session more than two minutes long, or shutdown/reboots through the graphical options
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<elvishjerricco> I'm trying to give Dracut a try with NixOS, and for a second I was excited because getting it to build and to make a simple initrd was really easy. But now I'm trying to get it to support ZFS and that is not going well at all... I just can't even get it to build
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<sphalerit> elvishjerricco: aww. What advantages would dracut have?
<elvishjerricco> sphalerit: Turned out the hard part was that `which` wasn't on the path, causing undetectable errors :P At the moment I'm just experimenting. It can resolve graphs a lot better than our initrd; i.e. we have some arbitrary ways of manually ordering LVM, LUKS, etc, but dracut just resolves a proper order.
<elvishjerricco> It's also got a lot of other modules that just do a bunch of things. e.g. I think it's plymouth module might be a little better than ours
<sphalerit> Aaah that does sound good
<sphalerit> But iirc it's all shell scripts >_<
<elvishjerricco> sphalerit: Yea. And I hate it :P
<sphalerit> Well I suppose ours isn't much better in that respect
<elvishjerricco> But yea so are we :P
<elvishjerricco> But these shell scripts don't seem to report errors in any kind of sane way, so that's impossible to deal with
<elvishjerricco> Hm.... Now I'm getting errors because ZFS's dracut module is referencing a ZFS systemd service file that doesn't seem to exist...
<elvishjerricco> Looks like the files were removed 3 years ago, with no comment as to how they were buggy, so I can't verify whether or not they are *still* buggy...
<elvishjerricco> Ok, actually it was just moved around between files like 4 times in the past 4 years. Here's the actual commit: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/commit/12e77fdc3f6f223be1a4d5c88d6c79bff63ae70c
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<jasongrossman> sphalerite: You should switch to a language in which punctuation is redefinable (like say Io) and then you can make your Nix look exactly like Haskell.
<sphalerite> jasongrossman: or haskell itself? :p
<__monty__> I doubt syntax is the reason you'd want something more like haskell?
<sphalerite> :p
<__monty__> Not that I don't like haskell's syntax. Just that syntax isn't usually worth the trouble, especially since it's not a huge difference in this case.
<sphalerite> yeah, it was mostly just a silly thought
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<sphalerite> https://github.com/yrp604/rappel what will they come up with next…
<infinisil> > viewSource hello
<{^_^}> "all-packages.nix:16845 hello = callPackage ../applications/misc/hello { };"
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<gchristensen> someone just messaged me to say their cto shared my blog post in their chat :)
<sphalerite> :D
<joepie91> hehe, always nice when things circle back
<Myrl-saki> > viewSource viewSource
<{^_^}> value is a function while a set was expected, at (string):177:32
<Myrl-saki> Ah.
<Myrl-saki> I doubt this will work, but..
<Myrl-saki> > viewSource { inherit viewSource; }
<{^_^}> attribute 'attrPos' missing, at (string):177:32
<Myrl-saki> Oh okay, that's better.
<sphalerite> > :v viewSource
<{^_^}> viewSource = attr: let apos = attr.attrPos; in "${lib.last (lib.splitString "/" apos.file)}:${toString apos.line} ${getLineNumber (apos.line - 1) 0 (builtins.readFile apos.file)}"
<sphalerite> Myrl-saki: ^
<Myrl-saki> oh lol
<Myrl-saki> Thanks.
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<sphalerite> aaah got to love incidental family tech support roles
<sphalerite> the kind where you don't have enough contact with them to really take care of the system so you can't just install nixos and manage it via SSH
<sphalerite> "uninstall free antivirus foo, activate windows defender" has almost become routine for me :|
<Ralith> the trick is to carefully avoid developing any expertise involving consumer operating systems
<sphalerite> nope that doesn't really help because you're still the computer expert :|
<Ralith> people usually believe me when I tell them I don't know wtf
<Ralith> maybe that is because my family are all technical enough to appreciate the difference between technologies
<joepie91> what do you mean difference between technologies, it all has a screen doesn't it
<joepie91> :p
<sphalerite> there's also the bit where you might not actually know how to solve the problem, but are familiar enough with software in general to be able to find it
<sphalerite> unlike them
<sphalerite> so even though you don't really know what you're doing, you still know it better than they do
<sphalerite> => your help is helpful
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<infinisil> I just had a ping to my *router* of over 2000ms..
<andi-> network buffers, very great :D
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<manveru> sphalerite: it's a superpower called "actually read error messages, menu entries, and preferences"...
* manveru just implemented a pg-based queue for fun
<samueldr> queuing for fun?
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<andi-> I successfully lost track of my outstanding things I was working on before having this gigantic dinner -.-
<sphalerite> manveru: but also "know that most free antiviruses are just adware really" and "know how to get to the task manager on windows"
<sphalerite> infinisil: 222 packets transmitted, 197 received, +21 errors, 11.2613% packet loss, time 356ms; rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 21.922/440.360/4472.441/842.867 ms, pipe 5
<sphalerite> I'm so glad mosh exists right now
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<Synthetica> These days, I can honestly say I haven't touched a Windows machine in months
<Synthetica> Which tends to instil some doubts in people
<Synthetica> (Which is good)
<infinisil> Synthetica: I'm touching a "Windows" machine right now
<Synthetica> 🙀
<infinisil> But the only thing that makes it a Windows machine is that it has it installed. Ain't gonna let that piece of trash boot anymore
<Synthetica> Didn't even complete the installer on my current laptop, straight to NixOS :P
<Synthetica> (or run the installer for that matter)
<infinisil> Noice
<sphalerite> I'm writing from a windows machine right now. Sort of. If you count a server that's got a windows VM on it which isn't running.
<infinisil> Okay, I gotta say, Windows is really well fit for one
<infinisil> thing
<infinisil> Downloading NixOS
<infinisil> \o/
<sphalerite> although the PXE ROM tends to be more efficient at that
<sphalerite> windows tries to be a whole operating syste
* samueldr prefers to download nixos from an android phone and using a usb mounter thing
<infinisil> I should dedicate one of my USB sticks to a bunch of NixOS installers
<samueldr> windows is scary
<Synthetica> What sort of trouble do you guys work yourself into that you don't have another working non-windows machine that you can at least use?
* infinisil usually just creates an installer USB from a running NixOS)
* sphalerite netboots when possible
<sphalerite> less fiddling about with hardware
<samueldr> more fiddling with network
* samueldr ducks
<sphalerite> true
<sphalerite> but I prefer fiddling with network
<infinisil> I should take a look at netboot, I have no idea what it is
<samueldr> it's when you tangle your boots in ethernet packets
<infinisil> Can I put a nixos booter on my server and boot from that somehow?
<sphalerite> no, you need to set it up in the LAN
<infinisil> How does it start the netboot process? Do I need to install something special into grub?
<Synthetica> (To be fair, this _is_ my first NixOS machine, so I haven't set it up on that many ocasions)
<sphalerite> unless you use something like netboot.xyz on a USB stick but that's sort of cheating
<sphalerite> infinisil: PXE is typically implemented by the system firmware. It brings up the network link, then obtains boot information via DHCP
<samueldr> you don't event need a storage device locally to netboot
<sphalerite> infinisil: then downloads a kernel or whatever
<sphalerite> yep
<infinisil> sphalerite: Hmm.. So it could be that my hardware doesn't support netboot?
<samueldr> and you could even use distant storage through those fancy protocols
<sphalerite> https://networkboot.org/ explains it well
<samueldr> the system wouldn't really know the block device is distant
<sphalerite> infinisil: very unusual for x86 stuff not to
<infinisil> Ah nice
<sphalerite> I think macs even support netboot via wifi
<sphalerite> (is it a mac?)
<infinisil> Yeah
<infinisil> 2012 macbook air
<sphalerite> netboot is really cool.
<samueldr> I never tried netboot; target devices I would have tried it on have wifi or usb ethernet and never got it working even tried a custom iPXE build (but didn't actively try hard)
<infinisil> Actually I don't think I want to use netboot, because the internet I have at home is so damn unreliable and has problems all the time
<infinisil> (as before with the random ping of 2000 to the router..)
<infinisil> I'll keep it in mind though xD
<infinisil> That website really does seem like a great resource for it sphalerite
<sphalerite> replace the router :)
<sphalerite> yeah, I found it a year ago or something, then about a month ago I spent ages trying to find it
<manveru> samueldr: yeah... i was trying to avoid adding another dependency to scylla to handle the worker scheduling :)
<joepie91> "A beautiful, lightweight, offline documentation browser for Atom."
<joepie91> that must be why it loaded all of MDN into RAM!
* joepie91 grumbles
<joepie91> I can do without devdocs integration if that's the price...
<manveru> so i made one based on NOTIFY/LISTEN and `FOR UPDATE SKIP LOCKED` and it works beautifully
<infinisil> sphalerite: Yeah I thought about spending some thought and time upgrading our network. We get our internet from 4G and distribute it throughout the house via powerline
<infinisil> And these powerline things are unreliable to begin with
<infinisil> And 4G is unreliable as well
<infinisil> Or maybe that's just the ISP
<sphalerite> oh wow
<infinisil> Kinda lots of stuff I don't have any power over
<manveru> not the fastest queue on earth... 884µs to add an item, and 358µs to process it, but it'll be more than enough for my purpose
<infinisil> Well whatever, I hope I can move out of my parents house and live alone in the next year :)
<sphalerite> infinisil: is this a case of "cellular data is better than ADSL"?
<infinisil> Yup
<manveru> infinisil: powerline works nicely for me, except for the adapters unsyncing every few months
<Synthetica> It honestly is, if it weren't for my (relatively) limited 10 GiB/month data plan I'd never enable WiFi on my phone except to tether my laptop
<infinisil> sphalerite: Well "better" as in, it's a lot faster, *usually*. The ping is worse though, and it's not as reliable and consistent
<sphalerite> powerline worked well for me in my flat in the UK too
<manveru> i'm also on ADSL... no 4G in this area planned in the next few years :(
<sphalerite> I have yet to get the adapters to Germany and try them, uh, wherever I end up living
<Synthetica> Moving to Germany?
<sphalerite> already moved to Germany :)
<Synthetica> Ah, nice :)
<manveru> you got a job here?
<sphalerite> currently staying with a family member though
<sphalerite> yep
<sphalerite> I'm starting at Mayflower on Monday
<manveru> oh sweet :D
<sphalerite> (https://mayflower.de )
<manveru> so you're directly in munich?
<sphalerite> yep
<manveru> should pay you folks a visit sometime
<sphalerite> will probably be moving out to some family friends soon because the family member in question is a bit complicated :p
<sphalerite> and hopefully one day find a flat :D
<manveru> good luck :)
<Synthetica> Does anyone know why 10% of our packages suddenly went out-of-date 19 days ago? https://repology.org/repository/nix_unstable (according to repology, that is)
<samueldr> the list repology uses is a json file on the nixos.org website, it will update when the channel updates
<samueldr> no, it would account for the inverse
<srhb> Is it _actually_ following nixpkgs-unstable?
<srhb> (I'm wondering whether the channel jumped back in time... Still a rather large number though)
<srhb> If so, it could be parsed out of here: https://channels.nix.gsc.io/nixpkgs-unstable/history-v2
<andi-> I think the website builds the same json files for unstable as well
<andi-> It is just not linked
<samueldr> yes, the nixos-homepage also makes a json for unstable, and it's what repology uses
<samueldr> (when the site was broken by emojis in feed news, it halted all repology updates)
<srhb> :D
<Synthetica> (Just found this: https://repology.org/repository/nix_unstable/problems btw, might be cool to make a bot that automatically submits issues based on that)
<samueldr> some are not automatable
<srhb> issues are. :)
<andi-> I would rather sprint through them on a weekend or so..
<andi-> No point in having issues without someone dedicating time to them
<samueldr> I made some efforts at first
<Synthetica> @andi- Sure, but this is a renewable solution, when something new is added it is registered
<Synthetica> Ping the maintainer
<Synthetica> Might be useful to detect other code rot as well
<Synthetica> Dead download links, etc
<andi-> Yes, but not initially
<andi-> We have that tracking issue which should be enough
<samueldr> oh, Synthetica, I think 19 days ago a PR was merged to list more packages in the json file
<samueldr> which accounts for the spikes
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<Synthetica> Ah, yeah, that'd make sens
<Synthetica> s/sens/sense
<andi-> I am a bit concerned with listing more there.. I was looking something up the other day and had to click through pages of Haskell or so.. :/
<samueldr> andi-: clicking on the website?
<andi-> Yes
<srhb> andi-: I think the repology authors intend to drop our autogenerated sets.
<samueldr> maybe I should add a filter by "ecosystems" in my reviewed package searcher
<srhb> (Which I think is a shame, and unfair. :P)
<andi-> srhb: it is a double edged sword
<srhb> Sure, sure.
<andi-> Have any of you come up with a nice thing to work on during the hackathon at nixcon? I would like to not do the same I always do ;)
<samueldr> what do you always do?
<andi-> Grump, work on my tools. Do some PR for security foo
<andi-> I mean we could try to tackle a few issues together that usually do not get done but some might find important
* Synthetica googles nixcon
<Synthetica> First result: Richard Nixon
<Synthetica> 🙃
<joepie91> Nixon 2018
<joepie91> wait..
<Synthetica> Ah, cool, hadn't heard of it
<Synthetica> (Not going, obviously)
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<jasongrossman> sphalerite: Congratulations.