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* samueldr thinks
<samueldr> though it's not good to do so this late
<samueldr> we probably want to somehow review the **whole** NixOS on ARM installation user story
<samueldr> something like booting to a live system, rather than reinstall in place
<samueldr> so users are not "forced" to use whatever layout the sd image ships with
<samueldr> though I fear memory could be an issue
<samueldr> (also, this assumes we have a good installation flow that takes the board firmware into account)
<samueldr> I wonder how much RAM the equivalent-to-the-iso squashfs requires
<samueldr> though I can see one big issue: rescuing a failed install would be annoying
<samueldr> current solution: just boot the 0th generation
<samueldr> in that "live" solution, where you end up re-doing the partitions, you lose the 0th generation
<clever> samueldr: in the case of the rpi, usb boot is supported, so you could boot a .img from usb, then nixos-install to SD
<clever> and thats kinda like how you install on x86 as well
<clever> boot from usb, then install to internal hdd
<samueldr> usb boot is not supported really
<samueldr> on the 3B it requires permanent modifications
<clever> the 3B+ ships with that flag already set i believe
<samueldr> and can fail with different usb drives
<clever> and i think a normal 3B can still usb boot, if you use the pi1/pi2 trick (but ive not confirmed that)
<samueldr> and 3B+ there was a user who didn't have any success with USB booting any of their flash drives recently
<samueldr> still, the world is not only raspberry pi
<clever> yeah
<samueldr> and it is bad to think only about the raspberry pi
<clever> how many other devices can boot from multiple sources?
<samueldr> many
<clever> what about booting from sd, but then nixos-install to an SD in a usb reader?
<samueldr> depending on what additional requirements you add
<clever> then swap the cards
<samueldr> yeah, I was thinking about that solution
<samueldr> but it requires two SD cards
<samueldr> and a usb reader
<clever> yeah
<samueldr> which I've seen be an issue for some users
<clever> what about a hybrid option
<clever> but / over network?
<clever> /boot on the sd your about to wipe
<clever> then the /boot only needs firmware, kernel, initrd, bootloader
<samueldr> now you're losing 90%+ of users
<clever> and the initrd needs network and nfs drivers
<clever> and you can safely wipe the sd once booted
<clever> some boards may not have enough ram to allow a full boot from ram
<samueldr> yeah
<samueldr> that's my main concern with any of those ideas
<clever> thats what netboot solves
<samueldr> but then you have to have a whole setup for netboot
<samueldr> that's too much
<clever> if /boot is on sd, you can vary how much is needed
<clever> for example, it could be a publicly accessible iscsi server, over the internet
<samueldr> it's already too much to involve the user's network
<clever> and you need zero setup on your lan, just internet access
<samueldr> yikes, booting arbitrary stuff from the internet
<clever> yes, it requires some trust, and certs to prevent mitm
<samueldr> or maybe we need a "kitchen"?
<clever> that reminds me
<samueldr> where the cache can provide the aarch64 bits that you finish assembling at home
<clever> install this module onto any nixos machine with 2 interfaces (preferably ethernet + wifi)
<samueldr> so rather than shipping a *filesystem* image, we ship an *archive*
<clever> and set those 2 options, to have the 2 IF names
<clever> and boom, it configures the whole system to be both a netboot server, and a router
<samueldr> we could still construct the sd image just like we do today using the kitchen off of hydra
<clever> now nixos does all of the heavy lifting of configuring a portion of the users network
<clever> and its a direct ethernet from laptop->SBC, so its a isolated LAN
<samueldr> I think this could end up being what Mic92 had in mind
<samueldr> in a way that is not cost prohibitive (in build time and useless wasted space on hydra)
<samueldr> with well-defined primitives, it might even be possible to make a TUI/GUI app to assemble a nix expression to assemble such an image
<samueldr> anybody free to take the slack on mobile nixos while I do that?
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<yorick> https://pub.yori.cc/rpi4.jpg hmm, how do I debug this?
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<LinuxHackerman> yorick: are any LEDs flashing? It might booting fine and just not putting any output on that console
<yorick> no leds, no network
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<kranium> hi angerman, thanks for your work on the helios64. i did however encounter the same /init loading error sphalerite had when booting mine. any chance you could share your image with me?
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<red[evilred]> sphalerite (IRC): you up and running yet?
<LinuxHackerman> red[evilred]: no, I don't have it yet because I wasn't able to pay the import duties yesterday :(
<LinuxHackerman> kranium: try applying https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/107181, that should fix it.
<{^_^}> #107181 (by lheckemann, 2 weeks ago, open): linux: fix generate-config's handling of "no-choice" options
<LinuxHackerman> (I'm sphalerite)
<sphalerite> (can confirm, I'm LinuxHackerman)
<LinuxHackerman> red[evilred]: I should be getting it somtime today though!
<LinuxHackerman> red[evilred]: are you up and running?
<LinuxHackerman> also, are you running your own matrix bridge?
<kranium> thanks LinuxHackerman! will apply and test the PR
<LinuxHackerman> I can be patient, I can do this, really… it can't be so hard, right?
<LinuxHackerman> x)
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<LinuxHackerman> It's arriiiiiiveeeeeddd :D :D :D
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<LinuxHackerman> thefloweringash: trying out your lx2k-nix now — which baud rate should I be using for the serial console?
<thefloweringash> Linux Hackerman: should be 115200
<LinuxHackerman> hm, it's behaving the same regardless of whether I have the microsd card in or not (fans spin up high then slow down again)
<LinuxHackerman> though that failed to init the DDR, I'm guessing because I have slower RAM than she does
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<LinuxHackerman> oh no, is my RAM incompatible? :|
<LinuxHackerman> uuuuh
<LinuxHackerman> does 2900MHz RAM even exist?
<LinuxHackerman> Because I have 2933MHz and that's all I can find searching online as well
<Ke> you can run it slower than spec anyway
<Ke> you even save some baby seals that way
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<LinuxHackerman> saving baby seals is good
<LinuxHackerman> but then the 2400MHz firmware I linked above should work with my 2933MHz RAM, right? :/
<Ke> are you sure it's not the xmp fw
<sphalerite> xmp fw?
<Ke> and if you don't remember, maybe you just haven't learned all the solidrun discord comments by heart
<LinuxHackerman> oh I certainly haven't, I've not even visited it once.
<Ke> liz has a special ug custom made x-trm xmp firmware handmade
<Ke> it's like webscale and all
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<Ke> though very frequently the advise is to build your own fw
<Ke> like eg. disable X64 emulation or something
<Ke> anyway discord allows registration without phone number or spyware on your android, can recommend that media
<Ke> as in recommend only for solid-run support, would not recommend otherwise
<Ke> it also has searchable history, lime matrix
<Ke> like
<Ke> not sure, if we could facilitate matrix bridge somehow
<Ke> like pine64 does for it's channels
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<Ke> I'll get my components hopefully soon and get some idea myself also
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<sphalerite> nah, discord just bans anyone using third-party clients so I don't think a bridge is likely.
<LinuxHackerman> hm
<LinuxHackerman> 🤦
<LinuxHackerman> Moving the RAM module to the other slot fixed it
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<Ke> you only had one?
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<sphalerite> yeah
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<Ke> now I am compiling a honeycomb kernel on nixos
<LinuxHackerman> I've got mine almost booting :p
<Ke> or basically shared pbp/honeycomb 5.10 kernel
<Ke> with my btrfs patches
<LinuxHackerman> oooooh
<LinuxHackerman> let me know how that goes!
<__red__> I don't have my memory yet or I'd be joining you in the pain ;-)
<Ke> I can't as I don't have the hw
<Ke> honeycomb part is just solid-run branch for 5.10
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<Ke> many/most people seem to be using that tree
<Ke> diff is against v5.10.5
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<sphalerite> oh right
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<sphalerite> __red__: do you have your images ready for when you do have your ram? :p
<colemickens> samueldr: finally responding; hello.
<samueldr> it was about your offer
<colemickens> If you're interested, I just need an address, no obligation/expectations, all that jazz.
<samueldr> sure (private message incoming)
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<LinuxHackerman> AAAAH it booted!
<samueldr> nice!
<LinuxHackerman> So it doesn't work with the u-boot from lx2k-nix, but using the image from lx2k-nix and a u-boot built using the docker instructions https://github.com/SolidRun/lx2160a_build it does
<LinuxHackerman> not sure what's wrong with the nix-built u-boot
<samueldr> u-boot?
<LinuxHackerman> but that's a problem for another day
<samueldr> I thought it would be using a tianocore-based UEFI
<samueldr> and even use ACPI
<samueldr> since it's supposed to be "*Ready"
<LinuxHackerman> idk, maybe that's also possible
<samueldr> yikes, having two extremely divergent boot processes on what is basically an oddity machine is not going to do it favours :/
<samueldr> *especially* if it's DT vs. ACPI
<LinuxHackerman> https://github.com/SolidRun/lx2160a_uefi I'll try this sometime this weekend
<samueldr> (though, at the same time, I welcome less firmware monocultures)
<makefu> so two things at once
<samueldr> I had missed the commandline at first
<samueldr> though, annoyingly enough, it just works on mine
<samueldr> have you ended up taking the time to update the eeprom?
<samueldr> neat, release approx. next week
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<makefu> yep, i've updated the eeprom by booting raspbian
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* samueldr thinks
<samueldr> I should validate what's running on mine
<samueldr> and probably update too
<samueldr> are you sure that simply booting raspbian updates the eeprom?
<samueldr> or you skipped saying you did the steps on the OS?
<makefu> i had to do an apt update and that somewhat resulted in the updated eeprom
<samueldr> good, I'll assume you mindfully updated to the latest eeprom releas
<samueldr> release*
<samueldr> looks like my 2GB raspberry pi 4 might be running on an eeprom from before the graphical splash?
<samueldr> ah, no, u-boot takes control quickly enough it doesn't show
<samueldr> that's what was running at the moment
* samueldr waits on raspberry pi os
<samueldr> (those inexpensive hdmi capture cards are handy!)
<LinuxHackerman> oh the blur, it's beautiful
<samueldr> it's hapazardly scaled down by the video player, in addition to the compression by the card :)
<samueldr> (testing on the 2GB variant, but I'll also do the same exact thing on the 4GB)
<makefu> samueldr: yeah these hdmi capture cards got much better over the years
<makefu> and they are so cheap
<samueldr> now if only they prevented me from being confused by the keyboard not responding to input in mpv
<sphalerite> a
<sphalerite> hahahaha
<makefu> some years ago i've built a keystroke forwarder for that situation
<samueldr> now on that
<samueldr> and it boots the 2GB
<samueldr> uh
<samueldr> I hate the raspberry pi vendor stuff
<samueldr> "up-to-date"
<samueldr> though it may be because it's critical and not stable
<samueldr> but I assume you just used the defaults
<samueldr> right, so even with the latest stable (not critical) eeprom, same result for the same image, on the 4GB raspberry pi
<samueldr> so it turned out my 4GB variant was already at the latest "critical" (default level) update for the eeprom
<LinuxHackerman> so I'm building a kernel on the honeycomb, and it sounds funny
<LinuxHackerman> the fan seems very indecisive on how fast it should spin
<LinuxHackerman> I'm guessing it's because the whole thing is bottlenecked by the USB stick
<samueldr> oh, no smoothing, totally actually driven by whatever input it uses?
<samueldr> like, many fan... algorithms? will overshoot under the target temperature before stopping
<samueldr> so it doesn't go weee WHEEEEE weee WHEEEE
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<LinuxHackerman> yeah, uh, this one doesn't
<LinuxHackerman> I think it's probably controllable though
<LinuxHackerman> oh actually maybe not? idk. It only spins up to full speed if firmware is present
<makefu> samueldr: can you check your /proc/cpuinfo revision of the raspi ?
<samueldr> it's in the screenshot
<samueldr> except in a different form
<samueldr> (for the 2GB)
<samueldr> b03111
<misuzu> samueldr: have you tried booting without hdmi connection?
<samueldr> b031114B1.12GB
<samueldr> misuzu: no
<misuzu> i'm using uart only
<samueldr> makefu: are you plugged into hdmi?
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<makefu> nope
<samueldr> hmm
* samueldr literally just finished cleaning things up
<makefu> my 4gb board isc03111
<makefu> s/is/& /
<samueldr> yeah, I have 1.1 for both (first released)
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<samueldr> but the hdmi bit is a plausible difference
<samueldr> I seem to have misplaced all my known-good UARTs
<makefu> i bought an hdmi plug, maybe the rpi4 `needs` HDMI to boot
<makefu> everything is possible with SBCs
<samueldr> or more probable: things are subtly broken with the combination of u-boot + foundation kernel and no-hdmi
<misuzu> i have four of these https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32633767613.html to be able to connect to my devices at any moment
<samueldr> oh, I have a bunch of UARTs that are not "known good" :)
<samueldr> and I tried using one the other day on the raspberry pi 3 and got garbage
<samueldr> though those are interesting
<samueldr> how are they used?
<samueldr> I mean, in practice
<misuzu> i have four devices with uart and four HC-05 with different names
<misuzu> i can connect to them via bluetooth at any time
<misuzu> very convenient
<samueldr> (though, it really wouldn't be something I keep permanently attached to things I don't keep permanently on)
<samueldr> I figure!
<samueldr> with a voltage divider, or whatever the proper term, you could add one on a serial header on an x86_64 motherboard, could you?
<misuzu> probably. i have two ODROID-H2 and they have uart. i can even enter the bios
<samueldr> eh, I was thinking more the classical motherboard you might have as your previous computer, which is now a bad NAS and home server, headless :)
<samueldr> but that's still a valid answer for the parameters
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<samueldr> neat, though I was thinking about the internal header, but internal header could lead to bad bluetooth reception in a metal case
<samueldr> uh
<samueldr> they weren't misplaced at all
<samueldr> they were in the box of serial adapters
<samueldr> among the untested ones
<samueldr> (one of those is from adafruit, which is the "golden" known good)
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<samueldr> out of the box, using a 2GB raspberry pi, headless, my console hangs at "Starting kernel ..." which might be only because the proper serial cmdline isn't given
<samueldr> the green LED seems to respond as if the system was booted
<samueldr> forcing a reboot through systemd by spamming ctrl+alt+delete worked
<samueldr> that's still on the stock sd image
<sphalerite> I must say, the honeycomb is rather zippy compared to my rk3399 devices :)
* samueldr tests on the 4GB
<samueldr> sphalerite: I imagine, having more than "token" firepower :)