<aaronjanse>
Me: "Yeah I'll just quickly write a Nix interpreter in Rust"
<abathur>
the me who starts projects has way more confidence in itself than the me that has to finish them
<aaronjanse>
I have a "junkyard" folder for abandoned projects
<aaronjanse>
Now I just start projects there and move them out if they happen to be completed
<aaronjanse>
These Nix builtins are killing me
<joepie91>
my junkyard folder is my projects folder
<joepie91>
every once in a while, one makes it out :P
<joepie91>
one is actually currently crawling out!
<abathur>
I've been thinking about separating projects and ~random clones, but mostly just because I want to keep my projects backed up w/o paying to back up large clones
<joepie91>
yeah I have a 3rdparty folder for this
<joepie91>
(3rdparty, not thirdparty, to make it easier to tabcomplete)
<abathur>
but sometimes they move :(
<infinisi1>
aaronjanse: Ohh starting out with projects in a junk folder is a great idea
<infinisi1>
I should use that
<abathur>
I think I really want one workspace where I just have to explicitly triage folders
<infinisi1>
Currently I have a ~/prj where all my projects are, but more than half are junp
<infinisi1>
junk*
infinisi1 is now known as infinisil
<aaronjanse>
abathur that's what I do. I have `/safe/contrib` for clones and `/safe/devel` for things I start
<aaronjanse>
Then if a project I start ends up on GitHub, I move the folder to /safe/contrib
<gchristensen>
my last computer had a fairly strict ~/projects/github.com/org/repo structure, but this doesn't account for work trees very nicely
<infinisil>
gchristensen: symlinks?
<infinisil>
Oh
<infinisil>
Never mind
<infinisil>
I was thinking of "work" folders (aka where you put everything related to a job)
<gchristensen>
is that a fancy distributed / mirrored thing?
<abathur>
if I nuked my just-fooling-around dirs and set a low bar like "pushing to GH at least once", I suspect I actually ship a fair share of the local projects I start
<abathur>
but part of that is because I cheat and usually start the stub/investigation scripts/files in an *existing* project and only move them once I'm fairly sure they're a separate project
<infinisil>
Hehe, well all my "projects" are pushed to github, but I can't consider most of them shipped in any way
<joepie91>
gchristensen: nah, just a pile of scrapers + a postgresql + some prototype UI code :P
<gchristensen>
fancy
<joepie91>
gchristensen: what made you ask about 'distributed', out of curiosity?
<gchristensen>
seems like something powers at be would like to see gone :)
<joepie91>
the component distributors who are trying to get leads, you mean? :P
<gchristensen>
well... not all component distributors are so happy to see datasheets out there!
<abathur>
speaking of new projects
<joepie91>
oh, in that sense
<joepie91>
gchristensen: wait you mean manufacturers or distributors
<gchristensen>
manu
<abathur>
wait until I make you look at the perverted bash stuff I've been up to
<joepie91>
gchristensen: right, so leaving aside that I *do not understand* why said manufacturers are so annoying about it, this is just indexing things and (for now) does not host any datasheets
<gchristensen>
oh dear
<joepie91>
though... I have my book of tricks for when I start caching them
<gchristensen>
ahh
<joepie91>
see, the thing is, they can make me take down the datasheets
<joepie91>
what they cannot do, is make me take down the entry in the database with their model number
<joepie91>
... nor the accompanying message of "sorry, this manufacturer does not want you to have access to their datasheets"
<gchristensen>
abathur: what eldritch horrors have you unleashed?
<joepie91>
so... if they start being difficult about datasheets, I can still play the PR game :)
<joepie91>
anyway, time for bed now
<abathur>
well, the fates stacked the deck against me
<abathur>
and I had a choice between doing it slowly in "sane" "bash"
<abathur>
doing it quickly in python
<abathur>
or doing some weird alias metaprogramming
<gchristensen>
so you went for aliases?
<abathur>
I need to clean up all of the swearing, but I think I can have something committed and posted shortly
<gchristensen>
hahaha
<abathur>
pretty proud of it really
<abathur>
it was something I knew, as like, a fact
<abathur>
but I didn't honestly realize I could use it for performance like this
<abathur>
so
<abathur>
really hoping the fates will hand me the cherry on top: letting it trend so I can terrore HN with it
<abathur>
bash aliases have an upside-down property: they are expanded at definition time
<abathur>
so, if you define an alias, and then define new code (say, a new function), the alias text is expanded into the new definition
<abathur>
I'm using that to cut a key corner; assuming a sorted input, the code in the first link iterates over user callbacks from a sourced file and writes an ~efficient "loop" for looping over a file without spending much time processing lines that wouldn't end up getting passed to user callbacks anyways
<abathur>
in the 2nd link, you can see the CI job running `declare -fp main` to show what code the main function expanded to on definition
<abathur>
^ gchristensen aleph-
<aleph->
...
<aleph->
Glorious
<abathur>
a little
<abathur>
I need to chew on it
<abathur>
aliases can do another neat thing
<abathur>
which is that, if they end in a space, another alias expansion can also happen?
<abathur>
I hadn't really internalized this def-time expansion thing, so I haven't really properly considered trying to mix it with the space continuation thing
<abathur>
I had mostly just seen it as a restriction on where you could define/use aliases (i.e., because it's define time, you can't define an alias in a function and then use it in that function)
<abathur>
in part because that's how the docs focus on it
<supersandro2000>
alias sudo='sudo '
<supersandro2000>
also aliases and functions mixed are fun
<abathur>
you can also alias absolute paths :)
<abathur>
*I think, maybe I'm thinking of functions; one of the two works, though
<gchristensen>
youcan definitely make a function named an absolute path and take it over
<siraben>
lovesegfault: wait how does that make friends
<siraben>
don't people loathe mock inteviews
<lovesegfault>
Don't make friends through mock interviews, get mock interviews through friends
<lovesegfault>
big difference
<lovesegfault>
friends are, in general, willing to do things they may not love for your benefit :)
<siraben>
oh misparsed, haha
<siraben>
design patterns in OOP vs. FP for the uninitiated^
<lovesegfault>
Also, for the student here: what is asked of you during an interview is signal for _you_ about the company itself
<lovesegfault>
it's, IMHO, important signal
<siraben>
so if they ask about RB trees what does that imply
<lovesegfault>
Well, it depends right
<lovesegfault>
for a co like Google not much because it's so humongous
<lovesegfault>
and the recruiter has nothing to do with your team, etvc
<lovesegfault>
but if I was asked that interviewing at a small co, I'd run away
<lovesegfault>
because like, if they can't put in the work to come up with a good technical interview, odds are I don't want to work with them
<lovesegfault>
your hiring pipeline is one of the most important things. If that shows signs of being poor, that's a big red flag for me
<siraben>
right
<lovesegfault>
You can tell a lot from the hiring process
<lovesegfault>
e.g. if they give you a long take-home thing, personally I dislike that
<lovesegfault>
what if I had kids and didn't have a bunch of time on top of the job I already had?
<lovesegfault>
there's things that benefit people with no responsibilities outside of work, and failure to consider that on the company's end is telling
<Ke>
" _Real programmers_ implement every data structures from scratch, without the need of a babysitter standard library or borrow checker" <- this is as obviously true as anything said by Wittgenstein
<Ke>
obviously though one would not use premade data structures named by someone else, but wrote optimal custom code in assembly tailored for each use case
<Ke>
or algorithms
<siraben>
Knuth must be a real programmer
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<lovesegfault>
Ke: can't tell whether or not you like Wittgenstein from that :P
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<Ke>
not sure if Knuth was an everything in assembly -person
<lovesegfault>
he made his own assembly
<siraben>
I tried reading TAOCP and the math was good, though the assembly even more intense and I kinda gave up
<siraben>
It's definitely possible to be as precise as he wants to be by formally specifying an imperative programming language
<siraben>
his reasoning for using assembly is that it wouldn't be out of date or subject to control flow conventions of the time
<lovesegfault>
I love it when stuff works in the dev shell but not during nix-build
<siraben>
the letter also calls for the entire FSF board to resign under the pretext of being enablers, which is pretty extreme
<ashkitten>
i don't think it's extreme, and if it is then it's a necessary one
<lovesegfault>
idk, at this point it's clear the guy is a serial harasser
<ashkitten>
"at this point" -- it's been clear for decades
<lovesegfault>
Right, didn't mean to imply "it's just now become clear"
<siraben>
lovesegfault: then he should be charged and prosecuted with harassment
<ashkitten>
everyone who's met him has stories about it, and not favorably to him
<lovesegfault>
more that "at this point there is no doubt"
<konubinix>
I don't look often at this channel, but it looks like RMS is a recurring topic :-P
<ashkitten>
siraben: by whom lol?
<lovesegfault>
siraben: not everything that would ostensibly be harassment is illegal; but that doesn't mean it's okay for the head of an org like the FSF to be doing it.
<siraben>
many of the quotes in the open letter appendix are not even directed at certain individuals, but opinions he expresses on his website
<siraben>
lovesegfault: what bearing does it have on his capacity as a technical leader?
<lovesegfault>
His role isn't as a technical leader
<siraben>
konubinix: hot topic these days, I know
<ashkitten>
his job was to make the fsf look good. clearly he has failed at that. therefore, he should not keep his job.
<cole-h>
why would you want an abuser as a leader, with technical ability or not?
<ashkitten>
^
<siraben>
it's highly unfortunate many cancel culture people are on board with this spreading spurious rumors
<lovesegfault>
and regardless, people's technical ability don't exist in a vacuum. Being a good communicator, being charitable, making people able to do their best work, etc are all leadership qualities that are just as important as technical ability
<lovesegfault>
(if not more)
<siraben>
cole-h: could you clarify what you mean by abuse?
<cole-h>
sorry, used the wrong word -- harrasser is more accurate
<siraben>
accusing him of transphobia is like, next level
<siraben>
"RMS has spent years on a campaign against using people’s correct pronouns. This is poorly disguised transphobia."
<lovesegfault>
You don't think refusing to use people's preferred pronouns is transphobia?
<ashkitten>
hi, trans person here. can confirm that is poorly disguised transphobia. :)
<lovesegfault>
since when is that disguised even?
<Ke>
also just fsf not adapting to this day is an issue, it's like existing only on past credit
<siraben>
he's campaigning against using people's pronouns?
<siraben>
he is not transphobic because he suggests the use of per/pers, he recognizes plurality of genders and what-have-you
<ashkitten>
siraben: are you trans?
<siraben>
ashkitten: why does that matter?
<ashkitten>
if you are not, then you should defer to the analysis of people with more relevant experience than you, thanks.
<lovesegfault>
idk man, refusing to just use whatever pronoun someone kindly asks you use sounds like a dick move if nothing else
<siraben>
in what world did I say that I don't respect people's pronouns lol (see log)
<konubinix>
I'm a white sis male person and also often hear that I don't have to give my opinion on any matter :-P
<siraben>
it just seems to me he's just proposing a change to gender neutral pronouns in his own way
<lovesegfault>
I'm not talking about you man, we're _both_ talking about RMS
<siraben>
one can continue using they irrespective of RMS's views
<ashkitten>
siraben: rms's views are that people using they/them pronouns are invalid
<ashkitten>
so therefore rms's opinions are invalid and he's a transphobe
<ashkitten>
it's quite simple really. if you don't respect other people's pronouns, then you're a transphobe
<ehmry>
hypothetically, if this is a coup and the fsf is replaced with a shill org in california, what is the difference anyway?
<konubinix>
ashkitten: You mean because this behavior hurts transsexual people?
<siraben>
ehmry: then the free software movement would be politicized beyond belief
<siraben>
"Ethical source" and other nonsense
<ashkitten>
konubinix: can you rephrase your question?
<ehmry>
siraben: right, but what is the difference
<Ke>
what is shill org
<Ke>
?
<siraben>
ehmry: the current FSF isn't (to my knowledge) currently doing that? but idk this is a big hypothetical
<Ke>
ilerminaty?
<ehmry>
Ke: a coporate front like linux foundation
<Ke>
I don't think linux foundation tries to look like anything
<Ke>
looks just boring accounting conglomerate to me
<konubinix>
ashkitten: He makes the distinction between the right of people to define their genre and the grammar used to refer to them. I define a transphobe person as a person wanted to hurt transsexual people. I don't see his point as a mean to hurt transsexual people. So I'm wondering if you have another definition of transphobe.
<siraben>
ehmry: linux foundation is already overrun with politics
<ashkitten>
konubinix: someone does not need to think that their actions hurt trans people in order to do transphobic things, or be a transphobe. i don't care if rms thinks he's hurting trans people or not, his actions of arguing against the way that trans people choose to be referred to are harmful
<siraben>
"Writing or speaking English, we always face a conundrum when we need a pronoun to refer to a person without specifying gender. Previously we needed a way to cover both male and female; nowadays some people state that they don't want to be considered either of those, and I believe in respecting their wishes. "
<siraben>
sounds pretty non-transpobic to me
<siraben>
transphobic*
<siraben>
he's just stating a proposal for an alternative pronoun that he views is more coherent in English
<siraben>
since English lacks gender neutral third person singular
<ashkitten>
siraben: he believes in respecting their wishes, while refusing to use the pronouns they want
<ashkitten>
doesn't sound like respecting anyone's wishes to me
<ehmry>
siraben: but thats fine, linux isn't a community project anyway, its enterprise grade industrial software
<lovesegfault>
"I respect you by not listening to you because I know better"
<ashkitten>
siraben: frankly i'm annoyed that you keep arguing this point and disregarding my words
<ashkitten>
you clearly don't care what actual trans people think
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<siraben>
wow. ok.
<ashkitten>
siraben: change my mind
<ashkitten>
i don't think you're listening to me. so change my mind and make me feel like you are.
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<siraben>
ashkitten: I took a moment to re-read his page in its entirety
<lovesegfault>
siraben: were you going to add to that?
<siraben>
and since ashkitten insists on trans people commenting, I asked a trans user close to RMS and she said RMS is not transphobic and respects her pronouns.
<siraben>
I don't have anything else to say.
<ashkitten>
i can understand people saying that it's incorrect to call him a transphobe, because he does not seem to harbor ill will toward trans people. however, he also speaks over them and claims to know better than them (his publicly stated opinion that they/them pronouns are not valid)
<ashkitten>
and frankly, whether rms respects she/her pronouns was not under question so i don't know why you brought that up siraben
<eyJhb>
ashkitten: I have a question
<eyJhb>
Because it annoys the hell out of me.
<ashkitten>
feel free
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<eyJhb>
I have a hard time making my sentences neutral to gender/what pronoun a person want to be adressed as. I know this is basic, but how would a sentence like `Thanks henk and GeeKoyo, who was on so many drugs that he/she/it/*pronoun* disconnected`
<eyJhb>
Not sure how to structure such a sentence, to not include gender? *which I guess is somewhat just basic English*
<ashkitten>
"Thanks henk and GeeKoyo, who was on so many drugs that they disconnected"
<waleee-cl>
sounds like both disconnected
<lovesegfault>
"the latter being on so many drugs..."
<eyJhb>
ashkitten: Thanks, I am too used to use genders in my sentences, and somewhat feel impolite not to do so... Which is weird.
<eyJhb>
waleee-cl: I do agree on that one :p
<cole-h>
lovesegfault++
<{^_^}>
lovesegfault's karma got increased to 48
<eyJhb>
Sorry for bringing drugs into the chat. It was just from a conversation I just had
<lovesegfault>
IMHO it's usually about adjusting the sentence a little bit than trying to just s/he/they/g
<cole-h>
+1
<ashkitten>
the subject of the sentence in either is unclear anyways
<ashkitten>
it would be reasonable to interpret it as either or both disconnecting
<waleee-cl>
honestly there needs to be a singular neutral pronoun in English
<ashkitten>
there is!
<waleee-cl>
repurposing they isn't the answer
<ashkitten>
they can be singular or plural
<cole-h>
is that not "they"?
<cole-h>
I don't think that's repurposed :P
<lovesegfault>
this stuff is easy in english
<waleee-cl>
ashkitten: well aware of that. But still think it'd be better with something that isn't used for multiple people too
<lovesegfault>
the gender issue is, IMHO, unsolvable in PT
<lovesegfault>
(Portuguese)
<ashkitten>
waleee-cl: plenty of neopronouns out there, but i don't see anyone using those as generic
<eyJhb>
In Danish it just seems rude to sue the neutral term. I think
<waleee-cl>
what
<waleee-cl>
sue?
<cole-h>
s/sue/use/
<cole-h>
I imagine
<ashkitten>
it strikes me as an excuse to not use neutral pronouns, since there are plenty of neopronouns if anyone complaining really cared
<eyJhb>
use* yeah :p
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<ashkitten>
lovesegfault: yeah, i feel that. english is probably one of the least gendered languages out there
<waleee-cl>
ashkitten: Is there more than they? I'm somewhat out of the loop on this front
<ashkitten>
i've known nonbinary israelis and let me tell you hebrew is not a kind language for that
<joepie91>
eyJhb: fwiw, I generally switch over verbs to plural form when using 'they' as a gender-neutral term, less jarring to people and it still gets the point across
<lovesegfault>
ashkitten: Right, for us not only does a neutral gender not exist in the language, but every single noun is inherently gendered as male/female
<waleee-cl>
eyJhb: what's the Danish pronoun?
<lovesegfault>
so like, any solution would involve major language refactoring :/
<cole-h>
a downside(?) to latin's descendants
<lovesegfault>
Right, the same is true for other romance langs
<ashkitten>
lovesegfault: yeah.. it's not only nouns in hebrew :)
<lovesegfault>
gendered... verbs?!
<ashkitten>
yes
<cole-h>
ouch
<lovesegfault>
scary
<eyJhb>
waleee-cl: den, dem, De (which is a how you talk to ie. the queen)
<ashkitten>
there are four ways to say "i love you" just between two singular people, depending on how they are each gendered
<joepie91>
sheesh
<ashkitten>
"i love(f) you(f)" would be אני אוהבת אותך
<lovesegfault>
another really confusing thing for me was that in PT the PC/polite word for trans people is "transsexual", which in English I later learned is _not_ appreciated and "transgender" is preferred (although I haven't really grokked why)
<lovesegfault>
idk if there's a in-use equivalent to transgender in PT
<ashkitten>
it's mainly outdated terminology that relates to transmedicalism
<ashkitten>
(the idea that trans people are only valid if they medically transition)
<ashkitten>
some older trans people refer to themselves as transsexual because that's the term that was used in their time
<cole-h>
so "transgender" is more correct?
<ashkitten>
yeah
<ashkitten>
but it's up to the specific person's preferences
<cole-h>
of course
<lovesegfault>
I see
<lovesegfault>
ashkitten++
<{^_^}>
ashkitten's karma got increased to 0o36
<cole-h>
ashkitten++ indeed
<{^_^}>
ashkitten's karma got increased to 31.000000000000007
<ashkitten>
feel free to ask questions at some other time but i need to sleep
<cole-h>
o/
<ashkitten>
night
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<eyJhb>
To the left you see Elsas toy, which was Elsa. And she killed it.
<ldlework>
eyJhb: Penny and Pino
<f0x>
also same mousemat :D
<eyJhb>
It had eyes, tail, etc.
<eyJhb>
f0x: They just work <3
<eyJhb>
ldlework: Where any of them from a shelter? Just wondering. And really nice names :D
<f0x>
except that one is now off to the side, because I got a big steelseries one to fit almost the whole desk, it's amazing
<eyJhb>
We had one each at some point f0x , but one of them grew legs and ran away during our move. That's at least the theory... :(
<eyJhb>
Never really gotten the whole desk thing. Is it really that nice?
<ldlework>
Penny we got because my landlord got her as a kitten then wasn't sure she really wanted a new cat, so we took her. Pino we got from a shelter.
<f0x>
yeah I think it's great
<f0x>
perhaps even in part because I just don't like the desks' natural color :p
<eyJhb>
ldlework: Cute little monsters! :D
<ldlework>
Yesterday Penny went up a tree
<ldlework>
And I had to have my wife's cousins push me up it so I could get her down
<ldlework>
Too tall to be climbable
<eyJhb>
f0x: Maybe that's the solution to steal back my big desk. Atm. I have the smaller desk of the two, because the color is "not pretty" (it is grey... The bigger one is black)
<eyJhb>
Didn't she want to get down? Did you try to snack her down? :D
<ldlework>
When she goes up a tree, I freak out, which freaks her out
<ldlework>
so she's up there looking down yelling at me, while I'm scampering up towards her, and she's like "up? Is should go up more? or down? I don't know!!"
<ldlework>
She's super brave though. She takes walks with me, with no leash or anything.
<ldlework>
We go to the park and walk around the jungle-gym (or whatever you call the wooden structures on a playground)
<ldlework>
Never had quite the same kind of trust relationship with another animal in my life though I've owned and loved a number.
<eyJhb>
Sounds nice! :D They are outdoor cats normally, right?
<eyJhb>
ldlework: What do you do if a dog/car comes by?
<ldlework>
Cars are not a problem. I snatch her up at the first sign of any dogs.
<ldlework>
I usually notice the dogs before she does. And the dogs never notice her.
<ldlework>
Penny's primary goal when she's outside is seeking out fresh catnip and then rolling around on it to get as dirty as possible.
<ldlework>
lol
<f0x>
eyJhb: aww very pretty
<gchristensen>
it'd be really cool if I could tell Gnome that a window is locked: can't be resized, no input can be given, just watching
<ldlework>
It grows everywhere around here apparently. I never knew until she found some one time, and started going crazy over it, and I was so confused. I started googling and sure enough, wild catnip
<eyJhb>
ldlework: It is so weird, Elsa does not react to catnip or baldrian. I think the foster home place stuff she came from had her just live in it since she was a kitten
<eyJhb>
So she is just immune to it.
<Taneb>
eyJhb: I've heard like one in three cats are
<f0x>
siraben: like an irc channel but irl in a room (and usually with tools you can use)
<siraben>
f0x: oh like carpenter tools and so on?
<Taneb>
And it's genetic, and almost all the cats in Australia don't react to catnip or something
<f0x>
siraben: yep, and lasercutters, 3d printers, soldering stuff
<f0x>
but all those are secondary to being a space where people can hack together (or just hang out)
<Taneb>
I regret not getting involved with hacker spaces when I lived anywhere near one
<siraben>
f0x: oh nice
<eyJhb>
Taneb: But catnip AND baldrian?
<gh0st[m]2>
They had a hackerspace at my college. They called it a "makerspace" though. I made a few little boards and stuff once
<eyJhb>
just seems weird. But yeah..
<Taneb>
eyJhb: not sure about baldrian
<eyJhb>
We got a new hackerspace in Aalborg :O
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<eyJhb>
With shitty smooth scroll that does not work.
<f0x>
gh0st[m]2: there's definitely a cultural difference, where makerspace (or even more commercialized, fablabs) generally just provide tools
<gh0st[m]2>
That's definitely true. Might be something to do with the general culture of the States though :/
<f0x>
gh0st[m]2: well we have makerspaces and fablabs here too
<f0x>
and the US has hackerspaces, like noisebridge.net
<gh0st[m]2>
ooh, I wonder if there's one near me then. I'll have to do some searching
<f0x>
that's the pile of junk^W treasure under my monitor :P
<f0x>
eyJhb: noo it's mine!!
<eyJhb>
f0x: Pretty sure there is written eyJhb someplace, somewhere in that room.
<eyJhb>
:D
<eyJhb>
Or on some of the computers.
<eyJhb>
Thereby, it is mine!
<eyJhb>
:D
<gh0st[m]2>
gasp is that a DnD!
<f0x>
hmmm but my name is there too
<gh0st[m]2>
That reminds me, I need to get more dice...
<f0x>
always
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<hodapp>
gchristensen: whereabouts are you in the US again?
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<hodapp>
I was quite jealous when we visited Detroit in 2010 and saw how much space some of their hackerspaces had
<gchristensen>
I'm in western Massachusetts, in the Berkshires
<hodapp>
but the past ~5 years we saw a surge of stupid-ass corporate "makerspaces"
<hodapp>
things that were either flagrantly for-profit, or open only to employees of a specific company
<gh0st[m]2>
Those and the often corporate hackathons is kinda tragic :(
<hodapp>
and I'm glad Hive13 has been around here since ~2009 and is doing well
<hodapp>
the libraries around here have their little 'makerspaces', which is cool I guess, they're not doing it for profit and they're trying to get kids access to things that might otherwise be a bit out of their reach
<gchristensen>
my library here also has a bunch of 3d printers, it is pretty cool
<hodapp>
ours has that and I think like a little recording studio
<gchristensen>
whoa!
<hodapp>
when I say 'little', I mean like a workstation with some software and a couple mikes and maybe a camera :P
<gchristensen>
yeah but still!
<gchristensen>
libraries are so good
<hodapp>
yeah. regrettably I am hardly ever at my local one
<supersandro2000>
my nearest library is a meeting point for lout youngsters
<supersandro2000>
a bit louder than the main station I would guess
<hodapp>
the downtown Cincinnati library is a large, nice building but I've also been told - by people who work there - that it tends to attract some people of nasty habits
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<__monty__>
Compiling stdenv on a single core really isn't ideal. Is there any other way to get a nicely linear and non-confusing log?
<MichaelRaskin>
Do you want it in real time or later?
<MichaelRaskin>
Because toposorting the .drv files and nix-store -l on them in this order should work
<cransom>
oof. this hydra schema update for setting nixexprinput and nixexprpath on JobsetEvals is hefty.
<gchristensen>
mmm
<gchristensen>
"This migration took 4.5 hours on a server with 5400RPM drives, against a copy of hydra's production dataset. It might take a significantly " I think it took ~10 minutes in prod
<cransom>
i'm at 20 minutes now on a t2.medium in rds.
<gchristensen>
oofta
<__monty__>
MichaelRaskin: Thank you. That'll save me so much time >.<
<cransom>
i need some more iops.
<__monty__>
MichaelRaskin: By toposort do you mean nix-store --requisites?
<__monty__>
Oh, nvm, should've asked in #nixos.
<MichaelRaskin>
I am not sure it orders things
<MichaelRaskin>
Worst case, you just do --referrers query recursively to find all the dependencies, then use tsort
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<MichaelRaskin>
Probably there is a better way…
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<MichaelRaskin>
Oh, you probably can ask for row IDs in Nix database of valid paths
<MichaelRaskin>
__monty__:
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<das_j>
oh my god I hate perl so much
<das_j>
but after a good day of sweat and pain I finally have live log output in Hydra
<gchristensen>
one way to approach rewriting an application like hydra is the strangler pattern, also apparently sometimes known as the needy cat pattern, where you front the old thing with your new thing and proxy requests you can't process yet, then you can move stuff over one route at a time
<gchristensen>
might be a way to implement log streaming
<das_j>
that's about what I did with nginx (probably)
<gchristensen>
ma27[m]: holy crap lol that test
<ma27[m]>
you mean the one from my latest hydra PR? %)
<gchristensen>
yea
<gchristensen>
should we make a channel to talk about this? or go to -dev?
<ma27[m]>
to be fair, parts of it are stolen from the hydra & gitea test
<ma27[m]>
-dev is fine
<MichaelRaskin>
gchristensen: so, a credit-stealing front-runner?
<gchristensen>
yes :)
<gchristensen>
or blame absorbing, depending on the older version
<MichaelRaskin>
If there were no credit to steal, you would just junk the old version
<gchristensen>
I'd love a tool that let me visually see similarities between many files -- not just 2 or 3,2 and not so much the differences
<MichaelRaskin>
Are they at least text?
<samueldr>
one's a macos 9 file with resource forks, the other is a sheepskin parchment
<gchristensen>
yeah they're text
<gchristensen>
(the various Hydra Plugins)
<MichaelRaskin>
Are we talking of exact matches?
<gchristensen>
definitely many exact matches
<MichaelRaskin>
Let me search my Monotone database for old branches…
<MichaelRaskin>
Argh, Julia has changed so much it is not even funny
<MichaelRaskin>
Basically I have some really old Julia code that takes a ton of files, finds exact matches of size at least N and then expands the matches to fit
<MichaelRaskin>
Which sounds pretty close…
<MichaelRaskin>
Hmmm, maybe as-is it is not too useful as it does some clever processing to distinguish kinds of characters in _Russian_ text
<MichaelRaskin>
By the way, how much total amount of text?
<MichaelRaskin>
Translating to modern Julia seems more complicated than expected
<MichaelRaskin>
(but there are silly parallel tricks etc.)
<pie_>
tfw you are a pl theory researcher :P
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, to be fair the changes are apparently mostly superficial, but now I need to recheck all the new names for the same stuff
<MichaelRaskin>
It was fine when I updated the code yearly, 5 years of not touching any of the related stuff in Julia is indeed a bit much
<MichaelRaskin>
gchristensen: I guess if you give me the files, I could see how much of the old code is even relevant at that scale
<MichaelRaskin>
I mean, the real core is 20 lines…
<MichaelRaskin>
(And without those twenty lines things get bad really fast)
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<aaronjanse>
Oh yeah, a lot has changed in 5 years
<samueldr>
I think there should be more ways to specifiy font sizes, but pixel only is going to break in the same ways, but for other uses
<samueldr>
no goals are similar
<samueldr>
and fonts are wicked hard
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, the actually hard fonts are not even used…
<abathur>
hasty modifications probably won't help, but I felt like the core thesis regarding the relationships was reasonable, though I admit I didn't read it very carefully
<abathur>
I recall thinking there'll be some ascender/descender clashes
<abathur>
if anyone just adopted what he described
<MichaelRaskin>
I guess it depends on how you pick line spacing…
<MichaelRaskin>
gchristensen: 623 fragments at 50, 128 at 100, 20 at 200
<MichaelRaskin>
What sounds better?
<gchristensen>
uhhh I'm not sure ...
<MichaelRaskin>
50/100/200 are initial lengths of match to start caring
<gchristensen>
in termsof # of characters?
<MichaelRaskin>
Yes
<gchristensen>
let's do the middle ground number :)