<cole-h>
needs cleaning before I submit it upstream, but it works*
<samueldr>
abathur: I'd gladly let a fuzzer write docs if it meant docs were written and truthful to the state of things
<abathur>
it'd just flip the problem
<abathur>
instead of users spending hours figuring out what is supposed to work the maintainers would be spending hours figuring out if the docs were describing a bug or a feature :)
<cole-h>
one quirk I discovered is that, since rust is utf8-aware... `echo X | cargo run -- tr X '\377'` gives you ÿ (U+00FF), whereas `echo X | tr X '\377'` gives you the byte 0xff
<abathur>
I don't mean to suggest the courts don't have to disambiguate inputs
<aaronjanse>
The bug vs feature decision is the job of legislature, right?
<abathur>
but more that courts dedicated to legal fuzzing would be an arrangement where smart people are paid real money to treat the law like a piñata rather than us all having to sit around and wait for someone with the appropriate combination of money, personality, and legal representation necessary to actually force issues
<abathur>
grey area probably
<abathur>
depends on the law? :)
<abathur>
for example, it's silly that we're this far in to OSS licensing and don't know the answers to some of these questions; I'm not if the outcomes, whether LARPed or real, would necessarily lead to any legislative decision
<abathur>
*not sure
<abathur>
they might, but it might also just mean people on all sides of GPL questions re-evaluate their risk tolerance?
<supersandro2000>
cole-h: nice! Going to look at this probably tomorrow
<cole-h>
sounds good. if you ping me before you test it out, I might have cleaned it up slightly
<supersandro2000>
cole-h: in that gist or are you going to create a PR?
<supersandro2000>
I also already patched autoconf to treat that issue correctly and fallback to bashism
<cole-h>
depends on how happy I am with it :P
<cole-h>
if I think it's "OK", then I'll probably PR it and ping you; otherwise, I'll update the gist. (but only on-demand, cuz, well, I'm iterating on it rapidly)
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<supersandro2000>
cole-h: I don't know rust and can't really tell if it is good code or not
<cole-h>
I can :P
<supersandro2000>
right now I just want a quick fix to make it ready for normal usage
<cole-h>
I just don't want to fix a bug and worsen the code quality at the same time
<supersandro2000>
or even worse add new bugs and regressions
* abathur
blinks
<cole-h>
I don't think I can regress the unescaping, but I can certainly add a new bug / inconsistenty with gnu coreutils
<supersandro2000>
but we have a pretty giant test suite: building a complete OS with it
<cole-h>
hehe, that's fair
* siraben
catches up on messages
<siraben>
aaronjanse: that's great!
<siraben>
how did your BIOS settings get reset? lol
<supersandro2000>
I want to get this PR merged now...
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<aaronjanse>
No idea siraben. I think my hardware did it automatically after thinking I was stuck in a boot loop? (I was constantly rebooting because I was setting my tty colors and font)
<aaronjanse>
*not "no idea" because I just stated an idea
<supersandro2000>
noticed it while building python that the set-source-date-epoch-to-latest.sh hook is broken
<supersandro2000>
also somehow it thinks that my Lib is capitalized and install fails
<cole-h>
supersandro2000: stdenv rebuilds take a while
<supersandro2000>
cole-h: yeah true.. I just want the eval to pass finally
<cole-h>
if staging things are missing from cache, ofborg will have to build them itself :P
<cole-h>
and since they're from staging... lol
<cole-h>
supersandro2000: any reason you're so eager to merge this PR? if it were me, I'd wait for fridh to chime in (or merge it, as they are wont to do)
<cole-h>
(re: "I am waiting for ofborg, then pushing the change and then merging.")
<cole-h>
ah, didn't read the PR body
<cole-h>
disregard
<cole-h>
sorry :)
<supersandro2000>
cole-h: because it broke all PRs targeting staging.
<{^_^}>
uutils/coreutils#1823 (by SuperSandro2000, 2 minutes ago, open): install: does not remove path from files
<siraben>
is it possible to reduce one's karma
<siraben>
siraben--
<aaronjanse>
siraben--
<aaronjanse>
Aww
<siraben>
siraben++
<{^_^}>
siraben's karma got decreased to 6
<siraben>
ope
<aaronjanse>
:O
<aaronjanse>
siraben++
<{^_^}>
siraben's karma got increased to 7
<siraben>
aaronjanse thanks
<aaronjanse>
Np
<aaronjanse>
I'm almost done with a MVP of a backup tool I'm building that's inspired by git-annex
<aaronjanse>
Then I'll do root-on-tmpfs and have a very clean system for making sure everything is backed up
<siraben>
ooh
<siraben>
At the moment I'm using borg backup for backing up, the other alternatives seemed too complex as if I needed to be a sysadmin to learn to use it properly
<pie_>
aaronjanse: youve seen restic?
<pie_>
aaronjanse: show me youre thing when youre done \o/ im great at losing data
<aaronjanse>
I used Restic for ~6 months
<aaronjanse>
Will do
<aaronjanse>
The main thing I want is a single view of all my important files, without having to have a local copy of them all
<aaronjanse>
So my tool will let me easily pull/push individual large files that I rarely need, storing different parts of my backup repo in different places
<aaronjanse>
Basically just git-annex but faster and written in Rust
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<pie_>
I need to figure out udev one of these days. And file a bug report upstream asking for a pokey interface not dependent on files-on-disk -_-
<pie_>
ive been wanting to do that for like a year now
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<elvishjerricco>
I really hate how often I have to reboot just to use Bluetooth headphones on this system...
<pie_>
elvishjerricco: VM_
<pie_>
?
<elvishjerricco>
pie_: No. Native NixOS install
<ar>
elvishjerricco: I didn't have to reboot in recent memory, but a few times i had to "pulseaudio -k"
<pie_>
no i mean put it in a vm and reboot the vm ÉP
<pie_>
* :P
<lovesegfault>
I have a newer intel wifi/bt card and it sucks
<lovesegfault>
the older one on my laptop was good
<elvishjerricco>
pie_: It's not the time it takes to reboot. It's that I have to lose all my open applications
<ar>
i have ax200 in my current laptop
<elvishjerricco>
Sometimes I can find the right incantations of services and kernel modules to reload to fix everything but the same thing never works twice
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<ar>
it might help that i'm on nixos-unstable and linuxPackages_latest kernel
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<pie_>
elvishjerricco: yeah thats why i said mazbe you can put the bluetooth stuff in a vm or container or something ÉP
<pie_>
* :P
<elvishjerricco>
That sounds complicated to say the least :P
<jD91mZM2>
aaronjanse: Sorry for missing your messages yesterday! I keep forgetting to check IRC
<jD91mZM2>
You should definitely use home-manager, it's a life saver
<jD91mZM2>
And yep, it's a workaround for SSBs. It will continue to work until they remove userChrome.css because it's probably also going to get called an "unused feature"
<jD91mZM2>
You already have to enable an option with "legacy" in its name
<jD91mZM2>
firefox is going down a bad road but hell if it isn't better than chrome regarding security
<gchristensen>
I wonder how grub, ubuntu, rhel and stuff detect console parameters properly for bare metal
<f0x>
do they :P
* f0x
spent too long trying to figure out usb serial console :(
<__monty__>
Does anyone grok how to navigate the Apple developer documentation website? I can only find things through the archive but that has admonitions all over the place the documents are no longer updated and I should use the documentation website, which seems more like an ad than usable documentation? : s
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<LinuxHackerman>
I could imagine DTBs providing defaults in a lot of cases so no console parameter needs to be passed on the cmdline
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<patagonicus>
Learning how modules work was so worth it. Now managing all of the machines I have is so much nicer. :)
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<cole-h>
how so?
<patagonicus>
Well, for one thing I've made a module for backups to my NAS. After I had that enabling backups for a new machine was basically just setting one option in that machines config + generating an encryption and SSH key. And if I notice that something's not working well I usually just need to change it once and then just pull the changes on the machines
<patagonicus>
when I do updates.
<patagonicus>
I plan on making the VMs and my desktop pull updates to the config automatically, although for some other machines I'd rather do it manually.
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<abathur>
anyone know how/why `nm --undefined` on a binary could show a symbol from GLIBC that I can't locate when reading it with xxd?
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<abathur>
I haven't audited to see if I can find them all, but specifically I am looking at sudo on nixOS (inside `nix-shell -p sudo`) and nm says execl, execve, and fexecve are all present; I see execl and fexecve via xxd, but not execve
<gchristensen>
I wish our systemd were stage-1
<gchristensen>
erm
<gchristensen>
I wish our stage-1 were systemd
<samueldr>
paging elvishjerricco for collaboration purposes :)
<ar>
that would require systemd to be present in initrd?
<samueldr>
gchristensen: what feature is making you wish for it at the current time?
<abathur>
execve isn't the only one, but the list is pretty short; execve, exit, getpgrp, sleep, and textdomain
<elvishjerricco>
samueldr: Hm?
<elvishjerricco>
oh
<samueldr>
systemd!
<samueldr>
ar: since no one answered... yes, it would
<elvishjerricco>
I should really change up my code to be a very broken nixpkgs branch instead of a weird external bit.
<samueldr>
and don't hesitate to ask for help where you need it!
<samueldr>
but yeah, it wouldn't be that much more, considering udev is in stage-1 already, which brings a chunk of systemd libraries
<elvishjerricco>
My initrd with this is like 20M :/
<elvishjerricco>
I'm sure I could get it down, but I'm not sure where to start
<gchristensen>
great so we're saving 2M and the only cost is miserably painful initrd scriptsn 18M ./rd0ykzgsi3w7nxykyigir63lg83g11l3-initrd-linux-5.10.15-initrd.efi
<elvishjerricco>
One thing I did differently is I don't have that weird extrautils derivation. Instead, I just copy binaries and libraries into their usual locations so nothing needs to be patched.
<elvishjerricco>
gchristensen: Oh the standard one is 22M? I thought it was like 12
<samueldr>
gchristensen: your .efi file contains the kernel too :)
<gchristensen>
nope
<samueldr>
oh, sorry then
<gchristensen>
I'm not using secureboot right now :)
<samueldr>
the initrd can be a separate .efi file?
<elvishjerricco>
Well... I don't feel so bad about 20M then :P
<gchristensen>
yea
<samueldr>
I thought it had to be combined with the kernel
<samueldr>
(and it wouldn't matter for secureboot really... the bootloader and/or the kernel could/should verify it if loaded separately)
<gchristensen>
the reason I'm bringing it up is I need networking, iscsid, multipathd, and other things running at the right time with the right options in initrd and I'm tired of shell scripts
<gchristensen>
and having them pass on in to the right status in systemd afgter stage 1 would be nice
<gchristensen>
so instead of making it work we're just giving up and going to run nixos in a vm
<samueldr>
before investing more time in the custom mobile nixos init, I want to see and evaluate systemd in stage-1 properly
<elvishjerricco>
One odd thing about systemd in stage 1 is that it won't pass status unless it thinks it's passing to another systemd binary. But stage 2 starts with the activation script. So I want to have a service in stage 1 that runs nixos-enter to activate the system in stage 1 before switching root and running the systemd binary directly
<gchristensen>
well maybe we can replace activation scripts too ...
<samueldr>
(mainly, if it can fail gracefully in a touchscreen-only environment)
<elvishjerricco>
Well that's a whole other project :P
<samueldr>
elvishjerricco: how does it determine it's another systemd binary?
<elvishjerricco>
samueldr: I forget. But I don't think you can trick it without patching systemd
<samueldr>
maybe we can alias the activation script to something like .../systemd-compat/systemd if it's relatively dumb
<elvishjerricco>
It's pretty simple logic in the switch root code in systemd though
<elvishjerricco>
I believe it checks if it's literally the exact same install path as the binary in stage 1
<elvishjerricco>
as determined at build time
<elvishjerricco>
Hm trying to find it in the systemd code... can't remember where exactly it is
<samueldr>
since it closes the serialization bits afterwards
<gchristensen>
I don't feel great about tricking it, anyway... I'd wager there is a way to make ~all activation scripts work at the right time without it
<samueldr>
no need to trick it I think
<elvishjerricco>
gchristensen: It'd be tough to do that in a way that both works at boot and when the user does nixos-rebuild switch
<samueldr>
each initrd will have a specific generation
<samueldr>
and the SYSTEMD_BINARY_PATH built-in will match that generation
<samueldr>
no?
<samueldr>
ah, it might be *another* systemd build though
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<elvishjerricco>
I just wonder about things like updating etc
<samueldr>
e.g. systemd-but-for-stage-1 (with fewer things enabled, smaller build size)
<samueldr>
elvishjerricco: ?
<elvishjerricco>
That's done during activation, no?
<samueldr>
ah, I wasn't concerned about activation scripts
<samueldr>
I was strictly thinking about handing off to the proper systemd so it deserializes state
<samueldr>
and if it's the same derivation, it should already work
<elvishjerricco>
Yea, initrd should only ever load a generation with the same systemd package
<elvishjerricco>
so that's not a concern to me
<samueldr>
I don't really know about activation scripts to know where there is an issue here
<elvishjerricco>
But like etc is a particularly egregious example
<elvishjerricco>
Because in order to make other activation scripts happen at the right time without activation scripts, you'd use systemd units. But updating etc in a systemd unit is a problem because etc is how we install our systemd units
<elvishjerricco>
And then it's not exactly clear to me that our systemd unit restarting logic for nixos-rebuild switch would handle the other activation-scripts-turned-systemd-units correctly
<gchristensen>
probably not
<elvishjerricco>
So, in the meantime, `nixos-enter` from stage 1 is where I'm headed :P
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<abathur>
trying to run a GH action and it's been queued for 20m
<gchristensen>
ouch
<abathur>
tried to go to HN to see if there was a gripe thread, and HN doesn't want to load; obvious conclusion: HN is down, so GH can't keep up with the number of people actually working on code? :)
<gchristensen>
elvishjerricco: what if I stage-3'd myself, and used systemd to pivot from one nixos generation to another with my iscsid servecise up and running :P
<gchristensen>
"oh god" you say
<elvishjerricco>
gchristensen: It's not far off from samueldr's stage-0 concept :P
<gchristensen>
hmm can I bind-mount / to /mnt-root/ then my new /nix to /mnt-root/nix and then ....
<cole-h>
gchristensen: Funny, I'm actually thinking about a similar-ish thing (to let us not need mountpoint=legacy for zfs)
<cole-h>
just need to install a VM so I can start messing around
<elvishjerricco>
cole-h: Why would such a thing be necessary for that? I'm pretty sure I know how to do it without any modification to nixos as it stands
<cole-h>
oh?
<gchristensen>
nice
<gchristensen>
how ultra cursed is this idea elvishjerricco
<cole-h>
I'm curious how you'd achieve that, elvishjerricco.
<elvishjerricco>
Set mountpoint=/ for the root dataset. Make sure hardware-configuration.nix doesn't contain your automounted datasets. Since stage 1 imports with -N, we don't need to worry about spurious mounts. Manually add a filesystems entry for / and whatever other datasets, with options=["zfsutil"]; (might need a dash in there, I forget the option name). Then boot, and zfs-mount.service takes care of the rest
<elvishjerricco>
So you should only need nix entries for / and /nix/store
<elvishjerricco>
whatever datasets those are on
<elvishjerricco>
But they can still use the automatic mountpoints, even if they're only to guide the mounpoints of children
<cole-h>
Hmmmmmmmmmm, interesting...
<elvishjerricco>
cole-h: Yea the magic is that zfsutil option. ZFS won't let you manually mount a dataset with a non-legacy mountpoint, but it will if you give that option
<elvishjerricco>
specifically for this purpose
<elvishjerricco>
and so that the zfs command can mount but whatever
<cole-h>
"-o zfsutil This private flag indicates that mount(8) is being called by the zfs(8) command. "
<cole-h>
I see, I see
<elvishjerricco>
I want to move all my systems to work this way, using --no-filesystems when I regenerate my hardware-configuration.nix.
<elvishjerricco>
But I haven't even tested it yet
<elvishjerricco>
I just know that's how ubuntu and others do it
<cole-h>
hm, I don't think you could do that, since there's an assertion for the presence of a root fs
<gchristensen>
actually my idea would be ultra cursed since I'd have three /nix's and they'd all be out of sync
<elvishjerricco>
cole-h: Right. You do have to have a root entry in your nix expression. Just needs to use options=["zfsutil"];
<elvishjerricco>
Same for /nix/store if that's on a separate dataset
<elvishjerricco>
But those are the only ones
<elvishjerricco>
everything else will be properly automounted
<elvishjerricco>
And even those two should still have a mountpoint in this setup; legacy not necessary
<cole-h>
So then `--no-filesystems` wouldn't really be helpful, no? Or would you put a `fileSystems."/" = { ... }` in your configuration.nix instead?
<cole-h>
elvishjerricco++ Either way, thanks for the info, this seems like a good direction to explore
<{^_^}>
elvishjerricco's karma got increased to 19
<elvishjerricco>
cole-h: --no-filesystems would be so that it doesn't generate entries for my dozen other datasets that SHOULDN'T have entries. I would manually keep the ones that necessarily aren't automounted, like /, /nix/store, and /boot
<elvishjerricco>
Ideally nixos-generate-config just wouldn't generate entries for zfs datasets with mountpoints
<cole-h>
ah ok
<clever>
elvishjerricco: nixos-generate-config is also not aware of which block device zfs lives on
<clever>
elvishjerricco: and if that is on luks, then the luks isnt auto-generated
<elvishjerricco>
clever: Right, that's already something I have to manually include in my configuration.nix
<elvishjerricco>
Though honestly I bet there's a way to figure that out
<clever>
elvishjerricco: i think nixos relies on lsblk
<clever>
when i run lsblk, i can see the LV's inside lvm that depend on the luks device, and thru to the raw block dev
<clever>
but its not aware of / being on an LV
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<cole-h>
elvishjerricco: Does `zfs mount` on a dataset also mount all its parent datasets?
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<elvishjerricco>
cole-h: Dunno. I'd have to try it.
<elvishjerricco>
but zfs-mount.service just does zfs mount -a
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<cole-h>
yeah, this is more for the installation process :P
<cole-h>
documenting how I think it'll go
<elvishjerricco>
I would wager it doesn't, but again, I'd have to try it
* cole-h
goes to test
<cole-h>
nope, doesn't.
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<supersandro2000>
also why does git not have an interdiff by default!?
<samueldr>
"pull request" the term comes from going on a mailing list and asking the maintainer to "pull from the branch" rather than applying patches
<samueldr>
(if that's what you were asking)
* jess
tips f0x over
<jess>
:333
<joepie91>
oh no, jess has found another target
* jess
tips joepie91 over
<joepie91>
:P
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* joepie91
falls over
<jess>
f0x is my fedi server admin (and they are very cool)
<joepie91>
see now we're back to old times!
* jess
catloafs on top of joepie91, victorious
<f0x>
oh hey jess :)
<jess>
hay \o
<ashkitten>
👀
<ashkitten>
times have been fun in #nixos-chat lately huh
<jess>
IM A CAT
<adisbladis>
DONT START THE CAPS THING AGAIN, IM THE CAPS MAN
<ashkitten>
cats good, ask how i know
<f0x>
hmm maybe the 'ash' part in your name has something to do with it
<ashkitten>
spot on
<ashkitten>
ash is black and black cats are witches and witches ride broomsticks and broomsticks are like rakes and rakes are triangular and triangles are illuminati