gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
<cole-h> `nix-store --graph /nix/store` IIRC
<cole-h> `-q --graph` actually
<lovesegfault> cole-h++
<{^_^}> cole-h's karma got increased to 135
<elvishjerricco> samueldr: I ended up just doing `foo $(for w in {a..f}; do echo -o $w; done)`
<samueldr> in that case `foo $(echo "-o "{a..f})` should work the same
<samueldr> both will lose the word splitting unless I'm wrong
<elvishjerricco> samueldr: Oh, yea that works
<elvishjerricco> That should come in handy in the future
<samueldr> be mindful of expansion and quoting rules, that's all
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<samueldr> TIL a really cursed thing that scares me
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<samueldr> apparently qml apps can load files from a cache instead of from the binary you're running them from
<samueldr> leading to all kind of fun
<samueldr> like using old source files
<samueldr> (compiled-in source files)
<samueldr> find ~/.cache/ -iname '*.qmlc # to see how much scary it could be
<cole-h> s/ #/' #/ :P
<samueldr> OH NO
<samueldr> cursed even more... it looks at the file it loads from (e.g. nix store path) to invalidate the cache
<samueldr> it never had a change to fight
<samueldr> so people updating qml apps might not even be running what's supposed to be running ??????
* samueldr slowly melts into a puddle
<samueldr> why the heck are those even cached?
<joepie91> ah, I see the "people who have looked into the abyss of desktop Linux and had it stare back at them" club has gained a new member
<samueldr> joepie91: I didn't mean to
<samueldr> but it's at a whole new level of wrong here
<joepie91> yeah...
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<samueldr> running software considered harmful
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<ashkitten> samueldr: wait, so it depends on when the file was last changed, not the path?
<ashkitten> and therefore anything in the nix store would never be invalidated?
<aaronjanse> I think it's the other way around; things in /nix/store would almost always be invalidated due to timestamps
<ashkitten> oh
<ashkitten> how's that make sense tho
<samueldr> aaronjanse: it should be the other way around
<samueldr> but the cache is fresher than the nix store path!
<samueldr> so there's no need to update the cache!
<samueldr> I haven't validated why it didn't evict things
<samueldr> but definitely things weren't being eviceted
<aaronjanse> Uhh, double "other way around"? Will the /nix/store be preferred?
<samueldr> evicted*
<samueldr> Qt sees there's a load action for qrc:///main.qml, it checks the cache, sees the cache is fresh enough (fresher than the binary) loads from cache
<samueldr> (that's my assumption)
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<ashkitten> well the binary hasn't been updated since 1970 so clearly it's fine
<cole-h> hehe
<samueldr> no!
<samueldr> >> The source code in the original file has not changed
<samueldr> clearly this is misleading
<samueldr> because the source code in the original file *did* change!!
<samueldr> given it checks for the sourceTimeStamp
<clever> matthewcroughan: the "modem" spits out 802.1q packets, vlan tagging
<clever> matthewcroughan: vlan 35 is internet service, dhcp gets you a public ip, NAT, done
<clever> matthewcroughan: vlan 34 is tv service, dhcp gets you a 10.x.y.z ip, configure multicast routing and QoS, and you have tv service (i have yet to reproduce that config...)
<clever> matthewcroughan: i didnt document it, but the official router, has a 3rd vlan, that is BRIDGED into the PRIVATE side of the lan, making the NAT/firewall effectively useless
<clever> in theory, the ISP could route that vlan to a VM in a rack, and that VM is essentially on the inside of my network
<matthewcroughan> clever: you're insane, but you knew that already
<clever> matthewcroughan: i'm insane, because of how i figured that all out :P
<clever> i configured 2 linux machines, to emulate both the "internet+modem" side, and a normal computer
<clever> then i put the isp router in the middle
<clever> so its effectively in a test env, with a fake internet on the WAN port
<clever> then i probed it from both directions at once, and looked at what it did
<clever> matthewcroughan: also, for more evidence of my insanity: https://youtu.be/u7DzPvkzEGA what do you see here?
<matthewcroughan> clever: I have got no idea
<clever> matthewcroughan: no pre-existing drivers or firmware was involved in generating that video
<clever> that is all code i wrote (or copied a bit), directly interacting with the hardware
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<lovesegfault> so I was in bed with my wife tonight and I farted
<lovesegfault> so she elbowed be in revenge
<lovesegfault> but I was really close to the edge
<lovesegfault> so I fell off
<lovesegfault> and in the process I kicked one of those wall COAX plugs
<lovesegfault> and now I have a big cut on my foot :(
<aaronjanse> Oh no
<lovesegfault> lessons learned:
<lovesegfault> 1. don't fart
<lovesegfault> 2. cover your coax plugs!
<Ke> needs more causal chain
<Ke> what did you eat before the fart
<lovesegfault> kimchi fried rice
<Ke> did you properly participate in plug standardization to make it safer
<lovesegfault> no :(
<lovesegfault> the coax really _is_ sharp
<ldlework> Anyone like to see some AI art I have been working on?
<aaronjanse> I wanna see
<ldlework> aaronjanse: https://imgur.com/a/X9gU2eP
<aaronjanse> Whoa
<aaronjanse> How??
<ldlework> lots and lots of twiddling the many knobs of style transfer
<ldlework> each took an average of around 80 attempts
<ldlework> i'm estimating the average, but heh it's a lot of fiddling
<ldlework> the moon one took me so long
<ldlework> i ended up reading the underlying white papers just to figure out why the heck it wasn't working
<ldlework> aaronjanse: oops forgot one, https://i.imgur.com/KYWu3KS.png
<aaronjanse> Wow
<ldlework> thanks
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<makefu> Greek: Θωθ (Thoth)
<srk> ldlework: pretty cool!
<ldlework> thanks
<srk> I'm toying with spacemacs btw.. pretty impressed so far
<srk> how do you resist the urge to convert things to org(-babel)?!
<cole-h> IMHO, doom-emacs is better (way faster). No time to elaborate, but maybe take a look at that as well :)
<srk> I will, I like spacemacs due to leader bindings, I'm using space as a leader in vim as well so find it pretty natural
<ldlework> srk: my entire config is in babel
<srk> :))) cool
<ldlework> literate programming is tight
<srk> exactly this
<ldlework> srk: have you seen my Tower of Babix project?
<srk> nice. I find this ability to mix languages a killer feature
<ldlework> I wonder if the marketing team would be interested in Babix
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* ldlework shrugs
<ldlework> Babix + crdt.el :)
<srhb> Oh, that's a really cool showcase.
<srk> combined with nix it makes a lot of sense for reproducible orgs / research
<ldlework> I should probably just add crdt.el to the Babix distribution.
<ldlework> collaborative co-editing out of the box
<siraben> why are you recommending nix-env -i -f . in your readme gasp
<ldlework> *my* readme?
* ldlework looks at contributor listing
<ldlework> well well who is this
<ldlework> siraben?!
<ldlework> :D
<siraben> our readme :P
<sphalerite> ldlework: any reason you don't load the dependencies lazily? i.e. rather than putting all of them together ahead of time, use nix-shell to build/run the examples?
<siraben> ldlework: Profpatsch has an interesting approach to doing something similar to babix
<ldlework> sphalerite: no. weekend project.
<sphalerite> "no time" is a good reason :D
<ldlework> not sure what i'm looking at
<ldlework> some rust treesitter stuff
<siraben> ldlework: it's like mini rust scripts with dependencies
<ldlework> ah
<siraben> I'm thinking it could be way generalized
<siraben> but how to get it to a literate programming setting like org
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<aaronjanse> Ooh that's cool
<aaronjanse> Wow
<Mic92> siraben: I was not really able to get the snippets there working. Did it load grammars for you with this code?
<siraben> Mic92: I haven't tried it
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<supersandro2000> such comparisons are utterly useless
<supersandro2000> linux dns -> getnameinfo aka os api
<supersandro2000> if windows DNS is not working you are like 🤷 maybe it works after a reboot
<ehmry> if you look at what libc does internally you might get an even bigger chart
<ehmry> YP, NSS, LDAP, etc
<supersandro2000> if we look at the windows internals we are certainly also get a bigger chart
<supersandro2000> and probably take a few turns through registry and AD
<patagonicus> Something I learned earlier today: syncplay crashes on startup if it can't write to its config file. So to use it with home-manager I had to patch it to just not write its config file. 🤷‍♀️
<patagonicus> On the other hand, it's great how easy it is to do small patches in NixOS. Didn't even have to look at how syncplay is built.
<pie_> someone please make the bigger map i dont want to figure this out myself
<pie_> xD
<f0x> pie_: you just set the right networking keys and rebuild, all is well :P
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<siraben> Sometimes pinned nixpkgs in flakes annoys me and I resort to overriding `nix build --override-input nixpkgs nixpkgs --no-write-lock-file github:foo/some-package`, what other solutions are there?
<siraben> the flake could automatically lock its nixpkgs, but is it really that bad to use `<nixpkgs>`?
<siraben> automatically update the lock*
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<aaronjanse> Most of my personal projects with auto-updated Nixpkgs break after about a month
<aaronjanse> Then when I want to use them later, I have to bisect Nixpkgs to figure out what commit works
<aaronjanse> So I'm strongly in favor of pinning Nixpkgs
<aaronjanse> *and not updating the pin without testing
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<eyJhb> Working with this JSON API, and they have a lot of "this is a int", but they give it as "123456"........... So it is really a string.
<aaronjanse> I prefer Scuttlebutt protocol's approach
<aaronjanse> Where lots of things are floats
<aaronjanse> But there serialization must exactly match the way some Javscript library does it
<aaronjanse> Meaning it's actually a string
<aaronjanse> Even though it's a number
<aaronjanse> *their serialization smh
<eyJhb> It. Sucks. aaronjanse :(
<aaronjanse> :-/
<eyJhb> Wondering if I should do a custom JSON Unmarshaller now...
<aaronjanse> Aaah
<aaronjanse> Maybe
<aaronjanse> Which language? (Go?)
<eyJhb> I found out there might be a keyword I can use on the struct `,string` :D
<eyJhb> Yeah Go :)
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<siraben> aaronjanse: dang, not pinning breaks after a month?
<siraben> I guess it depends on the project and language
<aaronjanse> Sadly so :-/
<aaronjanse> Do you know if there's a way to have a flake as an `input` but override its nixpkgs?
<siraben> Yeah you can use followe
<siraben> inputs.sops-nix.inputs.nixpkgs.follows = "nixpkgs";
<aaronjanse> Whoa, TIL
<aaronjanse> I've been using NixOS on my laptop for 3 years now, and I still learn a new cool thing almost every day
<siraben> time to alias to ns-repin to nix shell --override-input nixpkgs nixpkgs --no-write-lock-file
<siraben> in many cases overriding doesn't seem to do any harm
<aaronjanse> That sounds good to me
<boredom101> I am working on a way to build arduino sketches as nix derivations
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<aaronjanse> Oooh
<aaronjanse> Please share when you get that working
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<aaronjanse> I'd really like to package some sketches I wrote some time ago so I can try them again in the future
<boredom101> Here is the repository where I am working on it: https://github.com/boredom101/nixduino, there is also an example included
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<siraben> aaronjanse: an intensional store model (as described in the thesis) would be great for reducing disk usage
<siraben> Content-addressed paths is a great step towards a full intensional store
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<boredom101> aaronjanse: there is still more to do, but the repository is a functioning proof of concept.
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<gchristensen> any opinions on trackball and/or/vs vertical mice?
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<__monty__> I'd expect the non-fixed position with a trackball to be good for your hands.
<__monty__> It's what I personally like about trackpads.
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<gchristensen> I use a trackball now, but it is not working properly anymore
<etu> Trackballs <3
<cransom> i have 0 experience or history with https://www.ploopy.co/classic-trackball , but they came across my radar the other day and i was intrigued.
* etu have gone the route of Trackman Wheel -> Logitech M570 -> Logitech MX Ergo :)
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<gchristensen> "not all perfect according to my taste" trolls
<adisbladis> Trying to figure out a good way to get my entire screen transition from black->white->contents
<adisbladis> Any takers?
<adisbladis> I'm trying to "emulate" an e-ink refresh cycle
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<__monty__> Woah, why?
<adisbladis> Because I want to have a window layout change hook that refreshes my monitor
<__monty__> gchristensen: Not working as in the device or it's not helping your hands anymore?
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<NinjaTrappeur> adisbladis: I was about to suggest `cat /dev/null > /dev/fbx`, but my system greets me with a "cat: write error: No space left on device". I remember having used that trick for my e-ink portable terminal though :/ That's weird.
<gchristensen> the device is unreliable now
<adisbladis> NinjaTrappeur: Probably a device that draws directly to the framebuffer
<adisbladis> I'm on X11
<NinjaTrappeur> You can use a simple graphics rendering system like pygame to perform that.
<NinjaTrappeur> Yeah, I'm on wayland. That might be the issue :/
<adisbladis> I think it doesn't matter if you're on wayland or x11
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<adisbladis> It's still not going to work
<NinjaTrappeur> I did use that trick for https://alternativebit.fr/posts/ultimate-writer/
<adisbladis> I would use mpv + a gif :P
<NinjaTrappeur> haha, yeah, works as well :P
<adisbladis> But I have some issue re full screen + my wm in a certain condition
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<__monty__> gchristensen: Could be an easy fix if it's anything like the scroll ball on the Apple Mighty Mouse.
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<gchristensen> nah, the keyswitches don't work properly -- releasing clicks midway and then re-triggering
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<gchristensen> and right click hasn't worked in, uh, years
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<__monty__> Ok, sounds ripe for replacement.
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<gchristensen> yeah so I've had this trackball for 9 year now, and a couple of those years it was at the bottom of a parts bin. I don't think it owes me anything7
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<kraem> anyone using xautolock with an external monitor? i can't get it to respect my `-corners` settings when i have an external monitor plugged in and the builtin laptop display off..
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<cole-h> srk: FYI, doom also has leader bindings (and is basically built around evil-mode)
<srk> mm, interesting
<srk> cole-h: easier to deploy on nix?
<kraem> srk: the author is using nix :) https://github.com/hlissner/dotfiles
<srk> oh :)
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<siraben> there should be a TTP (time to package) speedrun, heh: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26537559 → `TZ_LIST="US/Central" nix run github:siraben/siraben-overlay#tz`
<siraben> maybe speedrun some random unpackaged GNU package, for instance.
<siraben> WTF bluetoothaudiod is taking up most of my CPU on macOS rn
<cole-h> srk: There's also nix-doom-emacs https://github.com/vlaci/nix-doom-emacs
<cole-h> but I never tried it
<cole-h> (nowadays I've switched to kakoune, though)
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<Ke> didn't someone buy freenode?
<Ke> obviously you can't buy the protocol at this time
<ar> iirc freenode is still a foundation, but it's mostly sponsored by one of the "vpn providers"
<f0x> huh it used to say Private Internet Access, but now freenode.org links to "shells"
<f0x> https://www.shells.com "Your personal cloud computer"
<AMG> saw that
<AMG> wonder if they'll scrap it and rebrand to skype
<samueldr> xbox network chat
<samueldr> they *did* just rebrand xbox to xbox network
<samueldr> uh, xbox live to*
<samueldr> oh, or "microsoft network messenger"!
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<cransom> revive the ms comic chat.
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<boredom101> I have created a simple builder for arduino sketches.
<boredom101> Is this something people think they would use?
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<gchristensen> I need an e-ink laptop screen
<gchristensen> so I can work outside the 3 months it is nice
<lassulus> maybe a remarkable2 and use vnc to your computer?
<gchristensen> oh interesting
<gchristensen> or SSH?
<lassulus> input could be a problem I guess
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<samueldr> something "similar" to this could help https://www.logitech.com/en-ca/product/multi-device-keyboard-k480
<samueldr> though as long as eink is held hostage under patents by that one eink company... I don't have high hopes to see it in consumer products other than ebook readers
<__monty__> Dasung Paperlike?
<samueldr> I should have said something more precise before being linked under an avalanche of niche products
<gchristensen> I've seen a little desk thing that has a piece you sit on, and then a piece that is stable
<gchristensen> I think I'd need a kinesis
<gchristensen> so remarkable + a stand + kinesis + ssh might do just fine
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<__monty__> The Dasung Paperlike monitor sounds more ergonomic tbh, https://youtu.be/AeC3LIFTaho
<gchristensen> yikes quite expensive too
<__monty__> Definitely, but eInk with a watchable video experience is pretty cutting edge.
<gchristensen> oh wow yeah that is remarkable
<gchristensen> I don't need quite that much
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<cransom> that dasung display is neat.
<__monty__> Not planning on eInk video conferencing out in the sun? ; )
<gchristensen> probably not :P
<samueldr> remarkable could be enough on its own, a monitor would need another computer close by
<gchristensen> and much more "right price"
<samueldr> remarkable is also really hackable
<samueldr> so it's a good device outright for that
<samueldr> you can change the OS if you desire
<samueldr> or you can "just" add apps to the built-in OS
<gchristensen> can I attach a keyboard?
<samueldr> I don't know!
<samueldr> (I don't have one)
<samueldr> I guess it depends on whether the usb port also does OTG or guest/host detection
<samueldr> without searching I would almost assume yes it would
<samueldr> almost no recent SoC expose port that serves strictly as guest USB as the main usb port
<gchristensen> oh cooool
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<gchristensen> oh neat
<bbigras> I wonder if it's only for the CM4 or if the regular Rpi4 would work too.
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<samueldr> getting the SSD on the PCIe bus will be the hard part on the regular rpi4
<samueldr> *maybe* the raspberry pi platform is worth a look, now that it doesn't use terrible backing storage
<samueldr> its early boot flow still is a mess though
<samueldr> unless the CM4 added more "out of band" storage for the early boot firmware?
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<adisbladis> gchristensen: lassulus: Using the remarkable like that is terrible
<adisbladis> The software just isn't there
<adisbladis> It's far too slow
<lassulus> I guess scrolling through code could be slow, how about typing single characters?
<adisbladis> The Dasung however 🤤
<adisbladis> lassulus: There isn't good enough control, so it's either ghosting as hell or it's super slow
<aaronjanse> Ooh, thanks for the link @boredom101
<samueldr> adisbladis: do you know if it changes between RM1 and RM2?
<adisbladis> samueldr: Nope, doesn't
<elvishjerricco> bbigras: Before the CM4 came out, there was a guy who desoldered the usb controller from a regular Pi 4 and used it to connect other PCIe devices. So you could probably boot off NVMe that way :P
<elvishjerricco> s/usb/usb 3/
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<samueldr> yep, though you're left with only the type-c connector for USB
<samueldr> I don't remember how the RJ45 connector is connected to the SoC though
<elvishjerricco> samueldr: I thought two of the USB ports were USB 2 ports that didn't go through the USB 3 controller?
<samueldr> maybe
<samueldr> (I don't recall)
<elvishjerricco> I think the RJ45 connector goes to a dedicated ethernet controller. No idea how *that's* connected to the SoC, but I know it's not through the USB 3 controller
<bbigras> elvishjerricco: wow
<bbigras> For the desoldering part
<elvishjerricco> Yea his Pi looked like a Frankenstein because of all the wires soldered to the middle of the board running to some PCIe monstrosity
<samueldr> yeah, obviously I meant what path through however many steps :)
<elvishjerricco> Oh, well apparently someone made PCIe on Pi 4 a lot cleaner: https://hackaday.com/2020/07/01/adding-pcie-to-your-raspberry-pi-4-the-easier-way/
<adisbladis> __monty__: That one is dank AF
<sterni> adisbladis: do you have the dasung display
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<adisbladis> Yes 🙃
<sterni> 😳😳😳
<tazjin> sterni: same
<tazjin> but my work laptop's HDMI port seems to have died
<tazjin> so I can only use it for personal stuff :'(
<sterni> it's important if the sun is shining
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<tazjin> the sun never shines in Egypt, very cold and cloudy country
<sterni> it's not the 25" though
<adisbladis> We both have the 13.3" one
<sterni> the reasonable choice
<sterni> but the 25" came out very recently iirc
<tazjin> it's not really out yet afaik
<tazjin> at least not outside of China
<tazjin> and there were rumours that it's got a glossy surface
<sterni> $999.00 huh
<sterni> oh and touch screen is probably also nice?
<adisbladis> Neither me nor tazjin went for the touch model
<adisbladis> flokli has the one with touch
<lovesegfault> gchristensen: how do you handle ssh keys with buildkite?
<lovesegfault> Trying to set it up right now but it obv can't clone our private repo
<gchristensen> I use Vault to generate one time use pull tokens
* lovesegfault cries
<gchristensen> but you could just toss a private key in the home dir
<lovesegfault> but each agent has its own homedir
<lovesegfault> and there's a bunch of them
<gchristensen> do you know each agent can run multiple jobs at once?
<lovesegfault> TIL
<gchristensen> extraConfig = ''
<gchristensen> spawn = 5
<gchristensen> '';
<lovesegfault> gchristensen++
<{^_^}> gchristensen's karma got increased to 441
<adisbladis> sterni: Supposedly the touch one was a bit less clear but we haven't compared them side by side yet
<adisbladis> Either way I'm not a touch screen person so It's not important
<sterni> okay if there is no cool workflow for it
<sterni> I proabably wouldn't want it
<sterni> maybe I should buy a e ink display instead of a new printer
<sterni> now that my old one broke
<gchristensen> lovesegfault: if you're curious though, this is how I clone via vault: https://gist.github.com/grahamc/d39a584cf5ab77d0a7b7fd6ce8a6ba20
<lovesegfault> Oh, nice!
<lovesegfault> thanks
<lovesegfault> gchristensen: how is vault registering the token with GH?
<lovesegfault> nice
<gchristensen> rmcgibbo[m]: a pretty good letter
<rmcgibbo[m]> I agree. I think those of us in this community who agree ought to consider signing on. (Maybe some people have the other position, don't want to start a flame war, but imho it's good for people with a position of prominence to speak up).
<gchristensen> "Institutional affiliation is provided for identification purposes only and does not constitute institutional endorsement."
<gchristensen> they're getting a lot of PRs
<lovesegfault> gchristensen: if I have a bunch of steps that all depend on one previous step, like steps B, C, D, E, F, G all depend on A, but they can run in parallel after A is OK, do I need `depends_on` for each of those?
<lovesegfault> or is there some handy way of saying "this group depends on that guy"
<gchristensen> maybe a wait block
<gchristensen> rmcgibbo[m]: I agree with you
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<bbigras> Would a cm4 make sense for a tiny home server?
<samueldr> depends on what the features of said home servers would be
<samueldr> if you imply "with an NVMe drive", look first into CM4 carrier boards that accept an NVMe drive
<samueldr> you'll have to find one you can actually get
<samueldr> factor it into the cost
<samueldr> the CM4 is not meant for end-users, really... it's for integrating into product designs
<samueldr> product designs which, then, may target end-users
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<ashkitten> ugh my jellyfin is broken since the upgrade to 10.7
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<aanderse> ashkitten: oh no! i don't want my jellyfin to break!
<aanderse> ashkitten: if you open up an issue can you possibly ping me please?