gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
<aaronjanse> Mac & cheese + hot dog is fantastic
<aaronjanse> Oh wow that sounds great
<samueldr> one thing that was annoying: first time I did that, I don't want to make 12 servings or more, and most recipes I found online were quite vague about how to adjust proportions and stuff
<samueldr> so it was all a big experiment about figuring out how much stuff to put in!
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<abathur> hmm
<abathur> how long has this github README toc/outline icon been here?
<samueldr> new to me
<samueldr> that's not in Nixpkgs' README
<gchristensen> link?
<abathur> lol
<abathur> well, that works
<samueldr> it's here though https://github.com/NixOS/mobile-nixos
<gchristensen> nice
<abathur> anything with # headers I assume
<samueldr> Nixkgs has # headers!
<abathur> oh, hmm
<samueldr> maybe ## is required?
<samueldr> Nixpkgs only has <h1> equivalent headings
<abathur> maybe, or maybe raw html disables it
<samueldr> while 100% of the other repos I looked at (2) have <h2> equivalent headings
<abathur> probably the heading level 2 then :)
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<abathur> weird question(s) I guess, but: what would you consider ~definitional/essential for a shell exec wrapper, and bonus: what's the most-complex exec wrapper you can think of? (if you can think of any that stand out)
<abathur> for context, I'm thinking about how to map executable wrapper -> wrapped executable, and seeking out model-challenging examples :)
<abathur> <3 siraben
<{^_^}> siraben's karma got increased to 8
<elvishjerricco> Why is it taking so long to get it unstuck?
<siraben> good discussion here
<gchristensen> turns out the largest container ship ever built had a lot of momentum
<siraben> even if they manage to unload 1 container per min, it would take almost 14 days to unload 20K containers
<siraben> would be interesting to see how this all turns out
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<samueldr> apparently not the first time *this* ship got stuck even
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<siraben> when was the last time?
<samueldr> I don't remember if it was stated, and I lost the source
<siraben> does anyone use nixpkgs-master as their channel?
<samueldr> if you're on NixOS DON'T
<samueldr> using nixpkgs to build your system breaks the expectations that you're somewhat protected behind the integration tests for NixOS
<samueldr> (and that's too on-topic for here I presume)
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<aleph-> Ahhh good old Cadey
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<samueldr> a thing I did in the past on similar machines (without a "KVM") is to use qemu (with another kind of kvm heh) to boot the "machine" from the rescue environment
<aaronjanse> Huh I wonder why they chose morph over nixops
<aaronjanse> I've also heard of some people using deploy-rs
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<siraben> Has anyone packaged https://github.com/mame/quine-relay ?
<siraben> boomshroom asked the same question in 2017, heh https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos/2017-06-26#392973
<pie_> " Huh, a case where using kubernetes is actually justified. "
<pie_> " Also like kubernetes, here's a picture of 20,000 zombie containers, getting no work done. "
<pie_> :'D
<siraben> I wish I could find a website that lets me play back the vessel data, did all the ships decide to go around Africa or are still waiting?
<lassulus> I guess some are waiting, some are going around. there are still a lot waiting
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<Patagonicus-web> Weird. My The Lounge instance is broken again and can't connect to freenode. Something something VM, I guess. Anyway, currently updating for the openssl patches anyway and plan on restarting once that's done.
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<sterni> siraben: we used to have a hydra tracking master and building specific machine configs plus all test of modules used by that machines. Arguably this is the only way you can feasible use nixpkgs master
<sterni> siraben: still it was pretty painful since everytime you wanted to change something and test the config locally you'd sit there compiling random stuff for ages
<sterni> I switched away from that setup because it was too annoying for ad hoc stuff imo and nowadays we just track unstable
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<supersandro2000> alternative to that: you have fast build machines where even staging takes only a few minutes to an hour
<LinuxHackerman> where do I get these fast build machines? :o
<sterni> if you throw like 100€/month at hetzner I guess
<Ke> first sell some of your stocks and use the paper money (worthless fiat) to create a fire on your forge
<Ke> then use your hammer to fashion some sand into cpus
<supersandro2000> for 100€/m you get 12 cores, 128GB RAM, 2x2TB SSD
<supersandro2000> not to shabby
<LinuxHackerman> Yeah that is not going to do a mass rebuild that quickly.
<supersandro2000> but if you are on master a 6 year old 4 core intel with 32 GB is enough
<supersandro2000> I don't expect that anyone really needs to build staging+stdenv in an hour
<supersandro2000> thats a bit overkill
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<Synthetica> speaking of fast builds: has openssl 1.1.1k already landed in any channels?
<supersandro2000> nope
<supersandro2000> and nope either for 20.09 https://nixpk.gs/pr-tracker.html?pr=117589
<sterni> Synthetica: unstable-small
<sterni> well not in the channel
<sterni> but the jobset for the channel is done
<sterni> :|
<sterni> I'm not sure how long it takes from jobset succeeds to channel advances
<sterni> gchristensen is not gonna wake up to happy I'm afraid
<supersandro2000> why are we building with 3x the machines on aarch64? https://hydra.nixos.org/status
<gchristensen> sterni: nixos-unstable-small and nixos-20.09-small both ahve the patch already, not sure why that tracker is wrong
<gchristensen> $ nix-build -I nixpkgs=channel:nixos-20.09-small -E '(import <nixpkgs> {}).openssl'
<gchristensen> /nix/store/fxwmbsbkpvkssfrhpbaqb4rdp2a3p28c-openssl-1.1.1k-bin
<gchristensen> $ nix-build -I nixpkgs=channel:nixos-unstable-small -E '(import <nixpkgs> {}).openssl'
<gchristensen> /nix/store/in89592f0gnwq25ki4jjybv474hjpzpf-openssl-1.1.1k-bin
<sterni> gchristensen: that's a relieve :)
<sterni> I think status.nixos.org is correct but your .gsc.io channel tracker is wrong
<sterni> iirc
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<Synthetica> oh my, I use .gsc.io for my channel update script 😅
<joepie91> infrastructure block tower XKCD goes here
<Synthetica> I didn't know Graham lived in Nebraska
<sterni> joepie91: hahahaa
<gchristensen> oh hrm let me see
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<eyJhb> Why does it suck so much compiling systemd?
<gchristensen> b/c everything depends on it
<eyJhb> My minimal router config depends on firefox, rust, etc. and those will recompile each time
<eyJhb> Should maybe pinpoint why it tries to compile those
<gchristensen> firefox is actually for spidermonkey
<supersandro2000> https://weather.gsc.io/
<eyJhb> But then.. Why spidermonkey gchristensen ? :D
<gchristensen> policykit uses javascript for its rules
<eyJhb> And policykit is default?
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<supersandro2000> that sounds like something totally cool
<eyJhb> supersandro2000: It sounds like I have to rebuild spidermoney, rust, firefox and systemd + everything else that is on my router each time I have to test something systemd...
<eyJhb> :$
<adisbladis> eyJhb: Yes, it's the default
<supersandro2000> why are you not pulling in only the new systemd?
<eyJhb> supersandro2000: Guessing you mean by changing systemd.package ?
<eyJhb> adisbladis: :( It hurts
<supersandro2000> yeah
<adisbladis> eyJhb: You can probably disable it safely on your router
<eyJhb> supersandro2000: Might do that
<eyJhb> adisbladis: Hopefully, I don't use much.
<eyJhb> But it would also only be while testing stuff :p
<adisbladis> IMO polkit is mostly relevant for desktop systems
<adisbladis> I wonder how much work it would be to switch it to use nodejs...
<eyJhb> adisbladis: You go!
<eyJhb> With all your freetime and stuff ;) :p
<eyJhb> Recompiling glibc
<eyJhb> I guess
<adisbladis> eyJhb: I'm guessing the answer is "a ton" :P
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* etu did a thing
<etu> It's beautiful I promise.
<gchristensen> oh my word
<etu> It has worked for years with my once manually copied grub binary, until last time I updated the channel.
<etu> So yeah, now it stays updated.
<eyJhb> If we still burned witches, I would trow in etu for that one :(
<eyJhb> But quite simple ,could be soo much worse :D
<adisbladis> Well... Interact with stupid hardware, get stupid hacks
<adisbladis> I think it's really quite decent
<eyJhb> But why does it actually happen? Guessing there is dualboot on this system?
<etu> No
<etu> EFI removes all non microsoft bootloaders and adds a microsoft bootloader to the bootloader list ON EVERY REBOOT.
<etu> This EFI is great XD
<eyJhb> etu: Burn it.
<eyJhb> That is fucking insane
<adisbladis> etu: Did you see the firefox hack I made? :D
<etu> adisbladis: Yes... I did.
<adisbladis> My setup is becoming a rube goldberg machine
<Cynthia> etu: what god awful EFI is that?
<Cynthia> or what firmware I guess might be more accurate
<etu> I don't remember the vendor of the mobo, but it can at least boot from fat32, I once had a system that could only boot from fat16 :D
<LinuxHackerman> etu: put your bootloader in the location of the windows one? :D
<etu> LinuxHackerman: Yes
<adisbladis> etu: Oh, I rembember that one
<adisbladis> Iirc the EFI spec states fat32?
<etu> it does yes
<adisbladis> So that's like a very blatant violation
<Cynthia> the Dell firmware interface has quite a lot of features, but the UI is weird as hell
<Cynthia> it is trying to look like Win Vista/7
* adisbladis is so happy :)
<adisbladis> Just got some pull requests merged in record time
<adisbladis> Not nixpkgs related
<Cynthia> (the same UI on my XPS 15 from 2018 or so, and my dell optiplex from core 2 duo time, so seems pretty universal)
<lukegb> I miss the Thinkpad BIOS that had the flapping bird cursor
<Cynthia> lukegb: was that when thinkpad was IBM?
<etu> Cynthia: This is the mobo: https://www.webhallen.com/se/product/238133 in that box
<lukegb> yeah
<adisbladis> lukegb: Those were the days
<lukegb> I mean, the Thinkpad BIOS was absolutely shit and had basically no options other than setting the date/time
<lukegb> but at least it had a bird
<Cynthia> etu: looks cursed
<adisbladis> lukegb: Something something flipping the bird
<etu> Cynthia: Well when you wanted ECC before AMD became good again, you kinda had to go to Xeon, then you had quite limited choices of boards on the consumer market.
<Cynthia> I generally buy ASUS mobos as of the consumer brands, they seem to have the best linux support, I have seen firmware changelog entries specifically mentioning linux, which is pretty impressive for a consumer mobo
<Cynthia> sure the firmware interface UI looks very gaming, but it works :p
<adisbladis> Cynthia: ASUS or not doesn't help when Intel is doing everything in their power to segment the market
<Cynthia> I have had 1 gigabyte mobo in recent times, and the NIC didn't work on Linux iirc
<Cynthia> adisbladis: hm?
<adisbladis> Cynthia: I mean Intel is really hurting the adoption of ECC
<adisbladis> AMD supports it on pretty much everything
<Cynthia> ah, I have no take on that, I just meant with regards to linux compat
<adisbladis> Even if you might not get official support for ECC at least they don't try to restrict it
<adisbladis> Fuck Intel for that.
<adisbladis> etu: I even bought and AMD Bulldozer once just to get ECC
<etu> adisbladis: oh my
<etu> I did build so many of those machines
<adisbladis> I mean it was decent for a file server
<etu> ~600 maybe?
<adisbladis> First gen CPUs with AES-NI
<adisbladis> Oh right, you had that job :P
<etu> Indeed
<crazazy[m]> im a liiittle pissed atm
<crazazy[m]> turns out when you do nixos-rebuild with a flake.nix is your /etc/nixos, nix tries to execute a flake command
<crazazy[m]> even if you're on stable nix
<crazazy[m]> like that makes 0 sense
<crazazy[m]> why would you do that
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<gchristensen> hahaha
<infinisil> ,launch Starship SN11 test flight, possibly today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJXEq9IX1To
<{^_^}> Starship SN11 test flight, possibly today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJXEq9IX1To: Ping for space stuff (edit this command to add yourself, see ",help"): infinisil Taneb ldlework etu philipp[m] eyJhb gchristensen __red__ red red[evilred] risson
<gchristensen> nice
<gchristensen> hopefully you ,lau\nch when it is closer :D
<infinisil> I'll try :)
<lovesegfault> is this the one that always goes boom?
<infinisil> Maybe not this time!
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<abathur> supersandro2000: I noticed a while back that the nixpk.gs tracker wasn't acknowledging two PRs had reached unstable when a local checkout of the branch said they were present; I assumed it was caching and that I was just checking too obsessively
<supersandro2000> abathur: I don't know. Not using it for very long I must admit.
<abathur> nod
<supersandro2000> hopefully it is not caching like the gitlab api with some stats
<supersandro2000> the more often you call it the longer it waits to update
<supersandro2000> whcih is pretty great for a CI because it only invalidated on quiet days or the weekend
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<cransom> my favorite kinds of management requests. please write some documentation to click through a web gui to perform an action, where the individual steps boil down to 'to add X, press the 'add x' button'.
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<cransom> closely followed by 'can you also write docs on how to detect and then defeat possible future DoS attacks on our web application?' sigh.
<Ke> show him some initiative and write instructions in Napoleon tries to make a landing to seize the servers
<Ke> what to do in case
<aaronjanse> ^you can never be overprepared
<supersandro2000> cransom: you know sharex?
<supersandro2000> screenshot and put a red arrow on it
<supersandro2000> text under the picture: please see picture for instructions
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<eyJhb> My colors... They are nowhere... :(
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<gchristensen> lol.
<sterni> what is the url to the turtle again
<ajs124> sterni: http://www.kame.net/ ?
<bbigras> oh. it's been a while.
* __monty__ was expecting endless redirects, is fairly disappointed.
<bbigras> it's a bit depressing that I had ipv6 like 15 years ago when I lived at my parents' but for some reason my current isp doesn't give a shit about ipv6.
<ajs124> I'm paying 5€/mo extra just to get a real IPv4 address -.-
<ajs124> At least I got v6 for free, though.
<bbigras> oh 5€/mo is not bad. here I think I would need a business connection.
<ajs124> oof. which ISP is that?
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<bbigras> I might be wrong but I think all the isp over here are like that.
<philipp[m]2> ,launch SN11 is canceled for today.
<{^_^}> SN11 is canceled for today.: Ping for space stuff (edit this command to add yourself, see ",help"): infinisil Taneb ldlework etu philipp[m] eyJhb gchristensen __red__ red red[evilred] risson
<lovesegfault> no boom :(
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<veleiro> about to try the nativecomp+pgtk3 emacs overlay of nix-community/emacs-overlay, excited
<sterni> ajs124: yeah!! thanks
<ashkitten> it's kinda sad that matrix people want so hard for irc bridging to be good but here i am with a matrix server of my own and i still use weechat to connect to irc
<cransom> same. i use weechat for matrix than i use element/other clients for matrix.
<bbigras> Do you use matrix on mobile?
<pie_> "Joel Spol­sky in 2002 iden­ti­fied a ma­jor pat­tern in tech­nol­ogy busi­ness & eco­nom­ics: the pat­tern of “com­modi­tiz­ing your com­ple­ment”, an al­ter­na­tive to ver­ti­cal in­te­gra­tion, where com­pa­nies seek to se­cure a choke­point or qua­si­-mo­nop­oly in prod­ucts com­posed of many nec­es­sary & suffi­cient lay­ers by dom­i­nat­ing one layer while fos­ter­ing so much
<pie_> com­pe­ti­tion in an­other layer above or be­low its layer that no com­pet­ing mo­nop­o­list can emerge, prices are dri­ven down to mar­ginal costs else­where in the stack, to­tal price drops & in­creases de­mand, and the ma­jor­ity of the con­sumer sur­plus of the fi­nal prod­uct can be di­verted to the qua­si­-mo­nop­o­list. A clas­sic ex­am­ple is the com­mod­i­fi­ca­tion of PC hard­ware by the
<pie_> Mi­crosoft OS monopoly, to the detri­ment of IBM & ben­e­fit of MS."
<pie_> in usual gwern quality
<pie_> (old post, just thought its worth a repostÖ
<eyJhb> bbigras: Generally the IPv6 adoption is sad
<eyJhb> Facebook says about 6% of users in DK uses IPv6
<bbigras> wow
<eyJhb> Also, we have few IPv6 ISPs in DK - https://ipv6-adresse.dk/ , they don't give a flying fuck.. Because we have enough IPv4 in DK. Otherwise, they just NAT you..........
<Cynthia> mentions of Denmark in this channel on a friday now just makes me think of cappy hour...
<eyJhb> So then you are a bunch of people, behind a NAT, and then you own firewall with another NAT
<eyJhb> Cynthia: How come?
<eyJhb> I read it as "crappy hour"
<Cynthia> CGNAT is the typical term
<Cynthia> oh lol
<Cynthia> eyJhb: does it make sense now or does "cappy hour" also not make sense?
<eyJhb> Cynthia: CGNAT is a dick move when we have IPv6...
<eyJhb> It does not. Crappy hour made somewhat more sense
<eyJhb> :P
<Cynthia> cappy hour, aka people start typing in all caps, sometimes in Swedish
<eyJhb> OH
<eyJhb> NO
<Cynthia> YES :3
<eyJhb> You go away with that kind of talk. Don't let mrworldwide hear of that
<Cynthia> blame adisbladis, tazjin, and flokli I think
<eyJhb> Ohh no..
<eyJhb> ,mrworldwide
<{^_^}> adisbladis
<Cynthia> ah yes
<eyJhb> :D You tagged him first :p
<Cynthia> why is he "mrworldwide"?
<eyJhb> He keeps moving around
<Cynthia> I mean fair
<eyJhb> You never really know where he is
<Cynthia> I am pretty sure I know roughly
<Cynthia> amusingly enough he is probably the only person in here who I met IRL first before meeting online
<eyJhb> But will you know in... 2 months?
<eyJhb> :D
<Cynthia> who knows, a bit over 2 months ago he was here
<eyJhb> Exactly!
<eyJhb> Oh, just to put it out there. Finally switched to nftables! Feels great. A ton of help from andi- :D
<eyJhb> andi-++
<{^_^}> andi-'s karma got increased to 60
<Cynthia> I mean he is sneaky
<lovesegfault> eyJhb: How much work was it?
<lovesegfault> I just use the normal nixos firewall module
<lovesegfault> which IIRC is iptables-based
<eyJhb> lovesegfault: Ehmmm.. I just looked at andi-'s rules, got some help, rebooted, and done (add another reboot for IPv6 issues)
<lovesegfault> Nice
<lovesegfault> I guess it'll be annoying that all modules that open firewall ports will break?
<eyJhb> lovesegfault: yeah, but... Not that big of a deal luckily
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<Ox4A6F> Ugh, is this intended? xorilog/home is referencing merged prs with his nix update commits: https://github.com/xorilog/home/commit/3838c979f57e3ec590adce1a5e18b9ef07ac41fd
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<samueldr> Ox4A6F: you'll have to ask them, but yes github has that (mis)feature
<supersandro2000> eyJhb: at least your IPv6 does not break when you turn on 5 Ghz Wifi