<COLE-H>
WHY IS IT THAT UPDATING SWAY BREAKS GAMMA APPS LIKE REDSHIFT >:(
<Swant>
READ THEIR WEBSITE, WHICH THERE IS LIKE 12 OF FOR SOME REASON, THINK YOU GET THE ANSWER, CALL THEM, GET A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ANSWER, LIE DOWN AND CRY
<Cynthia>
Swant: I EXPECTED BETTER AS I CALLED SEKRETESSGRUPPEN THAT PRETTY MUCH ONLY DEALS WITH THIS CRAP
<ADISBLADIS>
CYNTHIA: FYI I'M STILL LISTENING TO SMOOTH JAZZ NYAN
<Swant>
SEKRETESSGRUPPEN IS SUCH A MYNDIGHETSNAMN
<Cynthia>
ADISBLADIS: SAME, I AM NOT EVEN GOING INSA--- NYA NYA NYA NYA NYA NYA
<ADISBLADIS>
FÖRENINGEN FÖR FÖRARGELSEVÄCKANDE BETEENDE APPROVES
<Swant>
I MEAN I LOST TRUST THAT SPECIALISED GROUPS LIKE THAT HAS ANY CLUE WHEN I TRIED TO START MY ENSKILDA FIRMA WHEN I WAS A YOUNGLING, AND ÖVERFÖRMYNDARNÄMNDEN DENIED ME BASED ON LEGISLATION THAT WAS REPEALED IN 2006
<Cynthia>
CA/MEME FORUM APPROVES OF THE VERY EASY TAX PAPERWORK IT HAS TO DO AS IT HAD NO TAXABLE INCOME
<eta>
WE DO?
<Swant>
CYNTHIA OH YES IDEELLA FÖRENINGAR ARE AMAZING TO CREATE
<Swant>
AND HENCE I'VE CREATED WAY TOO MANY
<ADISBLADIS>
ETA: BABY SHARK DO DO DO DO
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<ADISBLADIS>
ACTUAL FACT: AT ONE POINT I SAW 50-60 BABY SHARKS
<Swant>
ETA YES I'VE READ YOUR TAX STATUS IN THE PUBLIC RECORDS
<ADISBLADIS>
IT WAS AMAZING
<Cynthia>
eta: THAT HAS BEEN THE UNDERSTANDING SO FAR, BUT WE CAN HOLD A BOARD MEETING TO MAKE AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT
<ADISBLADIS>
YOU ARE NOT A MEMBER OF THE BOARD
<Cynthia>
ADISBLADIS: WHO?
<ADISBLADIS>
NONE OF YOU ARE
<Cynthia>
I AM AND SO IS ETA :3
<ADISBLADIS>
NOT OF THE BOARD
<ADISBLADIS>
MAYBE OF A BOARD
<Cynthia>
...
<ADISBLADIS>
BUT NOT _THE_ BOARD
<multi>
WHAT IS THIS *THE* BOARD YOU SPEAK OF?
<ADISBLADIS>
THE BOARD ROOM
LASSULUS is now known as lassulus
<ADISBLADIS>
DUH
<Swant>
MULTI MY CHARCETURIE BOARD
<multi>
SWANT: YOU WOT
<Swant>
I'VE PUT NO EFFORT INTO SPELLING THAT WORD, AND I WILL NOT
<Cynthia>
I AM EVEN NERDY ABOUT RIPE NCCS RULES FOR EXECUTIVE BOARD ELECTIONS, COMBINING BUREAUCRACY AND NETWORKING
<hexa->
Cynthia: have you been to DENOG in the last few years?
<Cynthia>
NAH
<hexa->
For some reason I follow you on twitter already :p
<Swant>
OOOOOOOOH RULE NERDING
<Cynthia>
I HAVE ONLY BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS FOR 2.5 YEARS AND GAINED A WEIRD AMOUNT OF TRUST IN THAT TIME
<Cynthia>
I AM BY FAR THE YOUNGEST IN THAT TASK FORCE TOO
<Cynthia>
AND BY FAR THE LEAST MALE
<Swant>
IN COMMITTEE WORK IT'S LESS ABOUT AGE AND MORE ABOUT BEING ABLE TO TELL PEOPLE THERE WRONG
<Cynthia>
Swant: YES BUT THE RULES PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE WRITTEN ENTIRELY BY WHITE CISGUYS MAINLY IN THEIR 50S OR MORE
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<Swant>
(WELL THAT'S NOT REAAAALY WHAT IT'S ABOUT BUT SHHHH)
<Swant>
YES
<gchristensen>
all the caps is giving me a headache
<Cynthia>
WELL I OBSERVED THAT BEING AN ISSUE AND I COULD AT LEAST POINT OUT SOME OF THE ISSUES WITH SOME IDEAS FROM A DIVERSITY PERSPECTIVE
<Swant>
THAT IS GREAT AND I WISH THAT COULD HAPPEN IN MORE ORGANISATIONS
<Cynthia>
hexa-: btw what's your twitter handle if I may ask?
<hexa->
Cynthia: @hexa_de
<TAZJIN>
ADISBLADIS: HOW ARE YOU HUNGRY?!
<TAZJIN>
WE ONLY HAVE CHICKEN RINGS
<ASHKITTEN>
WHAT ARE CHICKEN RINGS
<TAZJIN>
MAYBE YOU COULD GO TO A PLACE THAT SELLS HMMM
<Cynthia>
Swant: it almost didn't, but luckily I had enough trust or whatever to be considered more important than someone who straight up said he wouldn't follow the CoC
<TAZJIN>
ASHKITTEN: I DON'T KNOW HOW TO TYPE IN ARABIC SO I CAN'T ACCURATELY ANSWER YOUR QUESTION
<TAZJIN>
THEY'RE JUST EGYPTIAN CHICKEN ... RINGS
<Cynthia>
aka he got kicked out and I stayed as we no longer had personal attacks within the group
<ASHKITTEN>
oh is fun time over?
<Swant>
Cynthia, that... I think I saw that on twitter, it made me rub my temples in frustration for a while
ASHKITTEN is now known as ashkitten
<Swant>
Someone said it was meant to be an hour
<Swant>
It seem to have gone longer than one hour now
<Swant>
I am, however, very tempted to make gchristensen's cloak all caps :p
<ashkitten>
how many freenode staff hang out in nixos-chat anyways
<gchristensen>
;_;
<Cynthia>
ashkitten: the swedish ones
<hexa->
ashkitten: just the one ig
<Cynthia>
I actually don't know how many swedish ones there are
<Cynthia>
FireFly is also staff
<ashkitten>
hexa-: isn't jess staff also?
<hexa->
ashkitten: yeah, who else?
<jess>
maybe
<jess>
swant is
<hexa->
jess: shush
<hexa->
oh ok
<ashkitten>
oh i didn't know firefly was staff
<jess>
swant is both staff and lovely
<gchristensen>
how did we get so much staff? this is lovely
<jess>
oh yeah firefly too
<jess>
who else
<Swant>
Cynthia I think there are three
<ashkitten>
i know firefly from elsewhere i was surprised to find them in nixos-chat a while ago
<Cynthia>
hm
<hexa->
freenode on nixos when?
<gchristensen>
when do we get to see freenode migrating to nixos ♥‿♥
<gchristensen>
sigh hexa- I woulda beaten you but I had to find my smiley on textfac.es
<hexa->
lma
<hexa->
o
<jess>
oh it's just us 3
<hexa->
I already packaged solanum
<hexa->
and atheme is there as well
<Swant>
We obviously need more Swedish staff to take over the lead from the bloody brittish
<jess>
theres some nicks that i see so often near staff that my brain is like "yup them too" when thinking about whos staff
<jess>
but theyre not
<Swant>
jess I am staff yes, dunno about lovely
<gchristensen>
I always wanted to be staff but I don't think I could deal with sitting in #freenode all the time
<ashkitten>
is it bad there?
<jess>
i wanted to be staff quite badly for a while and it was not what i expected but it's very worth it
<jess>
ashkitten: it's a nexus for trolls on the network
<ashkitten>
ah
<Cynthia>
Swant: the swedes would just create a complicated organizational structure around every staff position
<Cynthia>
is a bad idea
<Cynthia>
or maybe that's more german actually
<hexa->
yup
<hexa->
was about to say just that
<Cynthia>
well depends
COLE-H is now known as cole-h
<hexa->
we are big on administration
<jess>
hexa wheres my hackint oline
<Cynthia>
if it's complicated due to barely being defined, then it's swedish
<hexa->
jess: :o
<jess>
gchristensen: what makes you want to anyway
<jess>
just curious
<gchristensen>
jess: just always really liked freenode and participating in the communities, and wanted to give back
<jess>
that's a nice reason
<Swant>
Cynthia I don't think you understand how much I'd like if that happened
<gchristensen>
how about you?
<jess>
mine's a bit idealogical
<Cynthia>
Swant: if it got defined?
<jess>
i think IRC is one of the last hopes for a widespread open/free chat platform that's simple to write code for
<jess>
i'm also a bit obsessed with abuse mitigation
<Swant>
Cynthia nah just a ridiculous setup
<ashkitten>
being staff sounds like work ngl, but i do feel kinda similarly to gchristensen
<jess>
but abuse mitigation is difficult, nasty and thankless
<Swant>
Cynthia but I mean the best quote I've found on twitter is "if you want to find inconsistencies in your processes, document your processes" sooooooooo
<ashkitten>
Cynthia: wait do i know you?
<Cynthia>
no clue
<ashkitten>
i feel like i recognize your twitter handle
<Cynthia>
hexa-: discovered that apparently they follow me
<jess>
the thing about abuse mitigation is you can write some cool code for it
<Cynthia>
ngl, one of my reasons for considering nixos for my home router is just to force me to document things
<ashkitten>
right?
<Cynthia>
as aside from the firewall, who knows what's going on in there atm
<Cynthia>
some random bgp sessions, network namespaces, wireguard tunnels, and other cursed stuff
<Swant>
Cynthia the solution, as always, is to hide the router where it can't be seen. And if the Internet is a ring weird you blame it on hustomtar
<ashkitten>
i switched to nixos because i started feeling physically sick thinking about how many things i could never possibly remember changing in my arch system
<Cynthia>
I like arch on my main desktop because it's semi experimental in a way, and in my experience things like custom secure boot keys are easier with arch than nixos
<Cynthia>
but my home router should preferably be more stable
<Cynthia>
my home router aka AS210089
<ashkitten>
i thanked myself so much when i got a surface tablet and was able to just deploy my nixos system onto it with very minimal tweaking, most everything how i like it
<Swant>
Some of us don't even have a static ip
<Cynthia>
Swant: I don't really either
<ashkitten>
ofc, turns out that the tablet gets ridiculously hot so i haven't actually used it much...
<Cynthia>
I have Telenor, and
<ashkitten>
don't get a surface they're really uncomfortable to hold
<Swant>
Oh dear telenor
<Cynthia>
and a cursed setup with network namespaces to run wireguard over Telenor without changing the main routing table
<aanderse>
i have run into the ultimate nix packaging challenge
<aanderse>
package A has package B as a dependency... package B modifies the source code of package A at runtime
<aanderse>
i'm certain i can't win
<aanderse>
-_-
<samueldr>
my computer decided I had done enough web browsing for tonight
<Swant>
Cynthia that sounds.... Horrifying
<samueldr>
the browser just vanished
<Cynthia>
also for the record I just stopped smooth jazz nyan cat after roughly 2h 10min
<Cynthia>
Swant: yes :3
<samueldr>
(rootfs and ~ fs hit 100% fullness)
<Cynthia>
I should sleep now, I am sufficiently insane now
<Swant>
But it's just 01:09 UTC
<Swant>
Which is almost morning anyways
<Swant>
And who needs to be /awake/ at 8:45 standups *grumbles*
<samueldr>
Swant: those who _participate_ in 8:45 standups :)
<Swant>
samueldr well not if everyone had the sanity to sleep through it
<ashkitten>
aanderse: what package is this :o
<samueldr>
oh, I definitely implied people don't want to or shouldn't want to participate
<samueldr>
aanderse: at runtime? :x
<aanderse>
ashkitten: the worst of all script kiddies possible... the true arch nemesis of everything `nix` stands for... `kodi` media center addons! 😱
<ashkitten>
terrible
<aanderse>
samueldr: yes, at runtime :\
<ashkitten>
aanderse: can you make package B do its thing at build time and then just leave it out?
<ashkitten>
kill it with fire
<aanderse>
samueldr: then... we end up with annoyed wife and children
<samueldr>
aanderse: and if you walk instead?
<aanderse>
things only go downhill from there
<aanderse>
ashkitten: unlikely
<aanderse>
i'm going to spend another hour or so looking into this and then admit defeat
<aanderse>
and go back to having to manually hand craft configure 3+ htpc boxes every 6 months :(
<ashkitten>
aanderse: alternatively, use a fhs chroot in tmpfs
<Cynthia>
Swant: not me, but I didn't get much sleep last night so am sleepy
<Cynthia>
waking up before 09:00 local time is way too early for me
* gchristensen
grumbles in 5:45a wakeups
<Cynthia>
gchristensen: solution, move to europe, and get a job with a manager in the US
<Cynthia>
no early meetings
<gchristensen>
lol
<gchristensen>
I have an unscheduled but persistent 5:45a meeting with my infant :P
<Cynthia>
I mean I am only joking about the moving part, this was actually a benefit I had at my last job, the rest of the team was in various US timezones
<Cynthia>
oh ah
<Cynthia>
sadly your infant is probably incapable of being taken care of remotely over google meet
<Cynthia>
that wording came out weirdly but you get my point
<gchristensen>
I think that is quite true
<aanderse>
gchristensen: how is the little one? :)
<gchristensen>
too big ;_
<gchristensen>
;
<Cynthia>
as in toddler now? or what do you mean by too big?
<DigitalKiwi>
their ego
<aanderse>
he means he can't believe how fast babies grow :D
<aanderse>
DigitalKiwi: "toddler" not "teenager"
<Cynthia>
ah
<aanderse>
;-)
<DigitalKiwi>
is there a difference
<Cynthia>
I mean as an actual teenager for a few more months, I think the difference is pretty major
* slack1256
felt some crack on his back just now.
<DigitalKiwi>
see that's exactly what a toddler would say
<gchristensen>
presumably, hopefully, you're no longer helping with the teenager's bathroom use
<Cynthia>
I mean I will acknowledge in many ways I am not the stereotypical teenager but still :p
<gchristensen>
teenage years ... I remember the good days back when I could sleep without injuring myself
<Cynthia>
I assume I look older as I rarely get IDed by bars the few times I have ordered alcohol
<DigitalKiwi>
you know who else doesn't get asked for ID in bars? toddlers
<Cynthia>
I mean yes, but they don't get alcohol served at all :p
<DigitalKiwi>
they do if they're teething
<samueldr>
ugh, my cat's the cause of half my waking-up feeling like crap
<slack1256>
samueldr: allergic?
<samueldr>
(because she sits in a place where I contort myself unconciously)
<samueldr>
well, sits... sleeps, all of it
<samueldr>
she's a bogarting all the leg room on my bed!
<Cynthia>
ah I recognize that situation (well from the perspective of the cat)
<aanderse>
lol @ DigitalKiwi
<slack1256>
her bed you mean :-)
<samueldr>
slack1256: I see you think like a cat
<ADISBLADIS>
Swant: "meant to be" lol
<Cynthia>
well so you see, meow
<Cynthia>
ADISBLADIS: meow
<ADISBLADIS>
It was a spontaneous event ^_^
<ADISBLADIS>
It didn't even start in this channel
<ADISBLADIS>
It just leaked to here because overlap
<Cynthia>
ADISBLADIS: you are a bad influence :3
<ADISBLADIS>
Or a good influence :3
<Cynthia>
in the best way
<Cynthia>
ADISBLADIS: cursed influence
<ADISBLADIS>
<3
<DigitalKiwi>
it carried over into #haskell too
<slack1256>
It didn't took over though.
<Cynthia>
ADISBLADIS: btw, you can attest to the fact that I am not a toddler, right?
<ADISBLADIS>
Cynthia: I can indeed confirm you're not a toddler
<Cynthia>
yay
<Cynthia>
ADISBLADIS: am I a cat though?
<ADISBLADIS>
Cynthia: You can be anything you want to be!
<ADISBLADIS>
I think you're more catgirl than cat though
<94KAAA9XC>
Texas Tank Watchers stream has started. Nobody cleared out yet, so no launch for hours. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOQkk3ojNfM: Ping for space stuff (edit this command to add yourself, see ",help"): infinisil Taneb ldlework etu philipp[m] eyJhb gchristensen __red__ red red[evilred] risson
<sphalerite>
samueldr: can very much recommend nix-bisect :)
<philipp[m]1>
Flight window opening up in 2h.
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<infinisil>
Ohh that's Starship SN10 :o
<philipp[m]1>
My Signal vm started swapping because 800mb RAM are apparently not enough for a messenger.
<tazjin>
philipp[m]1: the source is Elon Musk's Twitter :p
<ar>
philipp[m]1: here it maps 8.3G VIRT and 0.3G RES, though i don't have too many chats there
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<hexa->
>> PipeWire, a new daemon created (in part) out of these attempts, will replace PulseAudio in the upcoming Fedora 34 release
<gchristensen>
wow!
<adisbladis>
Fedora doing the good work yet again!
<adisbladis>
I really like how they push forward the entire ecosystem
<adisbladis>
First dropping Docker :)
<adisbladis>
Now dropping pulseaudio
<etu>
Didn't they push systemd, pulseaudio, networkmanager, etc to begin with as well?
<etu>
They are also pushing for btrfs
<sterni>
isn't that exactly the point
<sterni>
systemd is forward from sysvinit definitely
<etu>
Yeah, it's great, I'm really happy with systemd compared to everything before it
<andi->
How is the Nix support on Fedora? :D
<srk>
there were nix copr packages iirc
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<sterni>
etu: oh, sorry misunderstood your point
<etu>
I wish I trusted btrfs to rely on it, instead I use ZFS.
<etu>
So I'm happy Fedora is pushing it :)
<sterni>
I've been using btrfs for like 4 years now and never had any issues
<etu>
I must admit there was a while since I lost data to btrfs, about as long as since I used it the last time :p
<etu>
But data loss tend to... make people upset.
<sterni>
although I'm interested to see what happens when one of the disks in the btrfs raid1 on my server fails
<sterni>
which is gonna happen eventually because it's one of the hetzner cheap servers from old contracts programme
<sterni>
probably should bother to read out the smart values and figure out when these disks were put in at some point
<supersandro2000>
isn't btrfs totally failing if your disk is full?
<supersandro2000>
and Docker at least gets their networking right
<supersandro2000>
podman does not even have a guide to get it working
<gchristensen>
btrfs had a rough start but my understanding is it is pretty good these days
<gchristensen>
if fedora is going forward with it, I'd believe
<philipp[m]1>
Wasn't it also one of these cases of distributions adopting stuff the devs weren't convinced was ready yet?
<DigitalKiwi>
*a man in a red hat slips gchristensen another hundy*
<gchristensen>
lol
<cransom>
i hope it's changed since, but there were cases where you needed a 3rd disk still for your mirrored/raid1 setups as some kind of tie breaker or you could have data loss. it could be a small disk, just for some metadata, but still creeped me out
<DigitalKiwi>
they gave us pulse systemd and btrfs, real winners
<etu>
The first two was the same guy
<philipp[m]1>
You mean, all stuff that is better than what came before?
<DigitalKiwi>
etu: IKR! how'd we get fooled twice!?
<cransom>
i ran btrfs on my boot ssds until zfs got trim support though. it didn't eat data that i knew of.
* DigitalKiwi
/ignores philipp[m]1 ;)
<etu>
DigitalKiwi: I find it kinda amazing that he has developed two such nice things :)
<etu>
pulse also had a rough start, but that was mostly drivers
<DigitalKiwi>
anyway why use btrfs when zfs is a thing ;D
<DigitalKiwi>
philipp[m]1: you know what else was better than what came before it? the V2
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<DigitalKiwi>
etu: same ;p
* philipp[m]1
is proud to have made DigitalKiwi godwin him in a single message.
<{^_^}>
nix#4596 (by siraben, 7 seconds ago, open): In nix repl, :doc shows the documentation for lib.toUpper
<sterni>
siraben: :doc only works for builtins and toUpper is a primop application
<sterni>
> :v lib.toUpper
<{^_^}>
lib.toUpper = lib.toUpper is not defined
<sterni>
> :v toUpper
<{^_^}>
toUpper = toUpper is not defined
<sterni>
:|
<siraben>
sad
<sterni>
siraben: the only way to fix this is making :doc not work with primop applications probably which means that :doc builtins.elem 12 doesn't work anymore though
<sterni>
(which could be fine)
<infinisil>
And :v only works for bot definitions :P
<sterni>
nothing ever works out
<siraben>
It should be like Haskell's haddock, IMO
<siraben>
so `packagesWith (name: pkg: let n = safeEval (pkg.buildInputs == []); in if builtins.hasAttr "buildInputs" pkg then if [] == n then false else n else false)` gets all the packages with an empty buildInputs
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<siraben>
:doc no longer returns docs for partially applied primops
<siraben>
sterni: lol so edolstra just closed the issue with a commit
<siraben>
I doubt that `:doc builtins.elem 12` should return the doc because in GHCi applications do not
<siraben>
so this change makes sense, IMO
<sterni>
it can be convenient
<sterni>
but since there is no way to distinguished between a real primop application and a renamed one
<sterni>
is kinda misleading
<sterni>
still :doc is pretty limited and feels like an afterthought
<sterni>
the way it's implemented can't support lib documentation
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<veleiro>
honestly why md, org-mode is more simple and more scalable to be for an entire productivity suite. think its been around longer too
<bbigras>
a lot more people use md than org-mode. it's a bit like choosing mercurial instead of git. there's a lot of advantages to using the most popular one.
<bbigras>
I use and like org-mode btw.
<veleiro>
yep but git is better than mercurial
<veleiro>
actually i only used mercurial for 2 years a decade ago before moving to git
<veleiro>
i'm just saying, the world is a better place with org as markup
<bbigras>
I thought a lot of people preferred mercurial. Yeah, I only used mercurial more than a decade ago too when git didn't support http remote and ssh was blocked at school.
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<philipp[m]1>
,launch recondenser activated. Sign for launch within the hour.
<{^_^}>
recondenser activated. Sign for launch within the hour.: Ping for space stuff (edit this command to add yourself, see ",help"): infinisil Taneb ldlework etu philipp[m] eyJhb gchristensen __red__ red red[evilred] risson
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<infinisil>
Ayy
<gchristensen>
yay
<kiwi_73>
there is no communication on the main channel?
<pie_>
i didnt actually look up where the place is, that explains some things
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<gchristensen>
one day I will stop being annoyed that I haven't made a tags-based scheduler and actually make it
<cole-h>
👀?
<samueldr>
yay?
<gchristensen>
lol
<samueldr>
ADD: annoyance driven development
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<risson>
philipp[m]1: there is tank activity now
<risson>
philipp[m]: ^
<philipp[m]1>
Thanks!
<gchristensen>
I wish I knew what was breaking github's "project" interface for me
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<infinisil>
T-11 minutes!
<infinisil>
,launch
<{^_^}>
Ping for space stuff (edit this command to add yourself, see ",help"): infinisil Taneb ldlework etu philipp[m] eyJhb gchristensen __red__ red red[evilred] risson
<eyJhb>
cole-h: ! I heard you have done some Grafana + Log stuff maybe?
<infinisil>
Spacex usually goes live 1 minute before launch
<cole-h>
eyJhb: You heard wrong x) Although for a while I was the Loki gremlin for ofborg's logs.
<eyJhb>
YES!
<eyJhb>
Loki stuff
<eyJhb>
But did you use that seperately, or with Grafana?
<cole-h>
L\nL is the one who did some of our Grafana stuff. But it's been broken for a while and I don't know why x)
<cole-h>
with grafana
<cole-h>
(and by that I mean he did some of the actual graphs which were really pretty)
<eyJhb>
So, I am guessing it is not a pleasant experience (Grafana + Loki)
<eyJhb>
Really thinking of starting to look more into it. But would be nice to learn a little from someone with hands on experience
<cole-h>
It's pleasant enough
<cole-h>
It's just that when ofborg died recently, it took the Grafana configuration and I haven't had the brainpower to seriously look into fixing it (the graphing stuff; Loki still works fine since it's basically just a frontend for journald, the way we use it)
<cole-h>
"recently" being last year, whenever that was
<eyJhb>
cole-h: Understandable. So you can somewhat say, give it a go I guess :D
<cole-h>
Yeah, basically
<cole-h>
The main reason I use loki for monitoring borg logs rather than watching journalctl via ssh is because ofborg has some fanciness that lets Loki add "tags" to certain lines
<cole-h>
makes filtering easier
<colemickens>
" And @grahamc has been hard at work making Hydra more efficient for us and the Nix community." what does that entail?
<{^_^}>
T-2:00: Ping for space stuff (edit this command to add yourself, see ",help"): infinisil Taneb ldlework etu philipp[m] eyJhb gchristensen __red__ red red[evilred] risson
<gchristensen>
the spacex shot is gorgeous
<infinisil>
Yeah
<infinisil>
Imminent! T-20 seconds
<gchristensen>
that launchpad is fantastically small
<infinisil>
ABORT
<gchristensen>
wow did you see it come apart at the seems?
<risson>
damn
<infinisil>
It did??
<gchristensen>
1s
<risson>
that .1 second on the countdown
<gchristensen>
oh no it was just a reflection on some steam
<cransom>
still pretty metal though.
<infinisil>
Literally
<infinisil>
Oh maybe another tyr
<infinisil>
try
<infinisil>
Today
<gchristensen>
colemickens: if you have any specific questions, I'd be happy to answer :)
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<infinisil>
Maybe another launch attempt in 2 hours!
<samueldr>
eyJhb: you wouldn't know where smartctl comes from otherwise
<samueldr>
I'm not saying it's a good reason!
<cransom>
years of re-inforced training from writing cron jobs where users never had a path set
<samueldr>
anyway, why wouldn't it be in /usr/sbin?
<samueldr>
(oh, I know, because it's in /usr/bin)
<eyJhb>
cransom: That actually helps
<eyJhb>
I am still mad however, but it helps!
<cransom>
sure it's not in /usr/local/bin? or /opt/local/bin? but what about /sw/bin?
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<eyJhb>
*now I just need to remember how the hell one patches in the path in nix....
<samueldr>
cransom: everyone knows good distros ship a combined /usr/bin that is linked to /bin /sbin and /usr/sbin
<samueldr>
doing otherwise would be madness
<samueldr>
cats sleeping with dogs
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<eyJhb>
,tofu
<{^_^}>
To get a sha256 hash of a new source, you can use the Trust On First Use model: use probably-wrong hash (for example: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000), then replace it with the correct hash Nix expected. For inserting 52 0's in vim: <esc>52i0<esc>
<cransom>
i wonder if sumologic's client is still a hodge podge of a single script, figuring out if you are old or new linux, solaris, or another unix base don what paths existing.
<joepie91>
samueldr: you may not be aware that it exists, but believe me, there is a humble bundle fanboy contingent :P
<samueldr>
oh, I'm sure it exists, but I don't think it's because of DRM-free games on Linux
<samueldr>
it's because of cheap bundles of games
<samueldr>
so your take is tepid at best :)
<joepie91>
samueldr: so that's the thing, that's not really what it once was
<samueldr>
yeah
<joepie91>
and they are still riding on the goodwill from back then
<samueldr>
I know that it started with the _humble indie_ bundle
<__monty__>
They don't do DRM-free anymore?
<joepie91>
have not done so for years
<joepie91>
it's nearly all steam keys now
<samueldr>
it's not a component of their things anymore
<__monty__>
So GOG's the only source now?
<joepie91>
yep
<samueldr>
itch.io
<joepie91>
well and itch.io
<joepie91>
but that's a very different selection of games
<samueldr>
the thing is... nothing should stop big studios from publishing there! (except DRM)
<samueldr>
devolver has some games there
<__monty__>
Ah, is itch.io just heaps and heaps of indie games, most of which aren't all that great?
<samueldr>
it's a platform where anyone can publish anything game-related
<samueldr>
so yeah
<joepie91>
I don't think it offers stuff like cloud saves and whatnot though?
<samueldr>
are those features for _studios/publishers_?
<samueldr>
I would assume it's more users that like those
<samueldr>
(and I don't know)
<joepie91>
samueldr: they are, indirectly, due to Steam's dirty tricks
<samueldr>
a fun thing is a bunch of itch.io and itch.io techs are open source
<joepie91>
the trick that Steam pulls is that you don't buy a mod system, and then buy a distribution system, and then buy cloud saves, etc.
<joepie91>
you buy "Steam publishing"
<joepie91>
and then you get all of the infrastructure things alongside it
<joepie91>
and since you, as the developer, have no choice but to publish on Steam for the most part, you will get a distribution agreement with them
<joepie91>
and hey suddenly you get free infastructure included with it!
<joepie91>
might as well use it
<joepie91>
and now your game is tied to Steam
<joepie91>
and so basically any competing games platform needs to offer close to a 1:1 match of all infrastructural services, a drop-in replacement, to truly compete with Steam
<samueldr>
I was thinking more along the lines that users that care about DRM-free might care about controlling their saves, compared to "cloud saves"
<joepie91>
yes but my point is that the developer still needs to have equivalent functionality on all distribution platforms, lest they be accused of distributing "inferior copies" in some places
<joepie91>
so in practice you end up in a situation where a game either has no fancy features at all for anybody, or it has them on Steam
<joepie91>
and users do care about those features, in many demographics
<joepie91>
result: alternative platforms like itch.io look super unappealing to developers
<joepie91>
(incidentally Valve should 100% be sued under antitrust regulation for this shit)
<joepie91>
also this means that if you want to sabotage Valve's market dominance, a good place to start is to build a drop-in steamworks clone :P
<__monty__>
Might that not happen? Afaik Apple's trying to drag Valve into the Unreal lawsuit?
<__monty__>
(Not just Valve but still.)
<joepie91>
__monty__: afaik that suit is not about steamworks but about exclusives?
<joepie91>
or am I misremembering
<joepie91>
oh wait it was the app store % thing right
<samueldr>
yeah
<__monty__>
I typed before reading about steamworks. Don't even know what that is.
<samueldr>
IIRC apple wants financials from valve to compare and see if competition actually helps or not
<joepie91>
__monty__: steamworks is the formal name for Valve's infrastructural crap, the mod workshop, multiplayer infra, and so on and so forth
<samueldr>
well, wants to build stats that shows competition won't help anyone
<joepie91>
basically the thing you plop into your game
<drakonis>
__monty__: epic lawsuit that is
<__monty__>
Lol, "Extra, extra! Capitalist behemoth sets out to show competition doesn't work!"
<drakonis>
unreal isnt part of the problem
<__monty__>
drakonis: Unreal makes it more fun. Think imaginary numbers ; )
<{^_^}>
14minish https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jWbqhP5eJI: Ping for space stuff (edit this command to add yourself, see ",help"): infinisil Taneb ldlework etu philipp[m] eyJhb gchristensen __red__ red red[evilred] risson
<infinisil>
I watched the stream on my phone while making the food ;)
<samueldr>
you snooze you looze
<risson>
the stream started
<infinisil>
T-5:00!
<samueldr>
aw, bad exposure
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<infinisil>
T-1:00!
<gchristensen>
,launch 30s
<{^_^}>
30s: Ping for space stuff (edit this command to add yourself, see ",help"): infinisil Taneb ldlework etu philipp[m] eyJhb gchristensen __red__ red red[evilred] risson
<infinisil>
HYPE
<infinisil>
Liftoff!
<risson>
it seems so slow
<infinisil>
No going back now, either it's gonna land, or not!
<infinisil>
Flop!
<infinisil>
Landing coming up..
<eta>
flip incoming
<eta>
donk
<infinisil>
AAAAAAAY
<infinisil>
SUCCESS
<hexa->
did I just start watching as it landed? lmao
<eta>
yes
<risson>
youhouuu
<gchristensen>
the whole thing is so surreal
<hexa->
its like I didn't miss anything at all
<infinisil>
A little fire is okay!
<risson>
the little fire is the rocket being happy to have landed
<gchristensen>
and the calvin and hobbes design makes it even more surreal
<colemickens>
straight up looked like CGI
<eta>
I liked the automation moving the engine around
<eta>
"uhhhhh point here! no, here! *wobbling intensifies""
<samueldr>
it looked like it was from out of this world