gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
<ashkitten> hmph, im trying to think of a good way to have beets-web + mopidy-iris on my server
<ashkitten> the main issue is where/how do i store my music collection? i currently have it in nextcloud, maybe i should bind-mount that directory somewhere for beets to read?
<ashkitten> hmmmm
<joepie91> lovesegfault: marketing banners are cheap, structural investment into a better world is not... something something don't expect for-profit corporations to be genuinely solidary something
<slack1256> We don't even agree on the structural changes, that is the actual hard part.
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<lovesegfault> joepie91: Yeah
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<cole-h> How do you guys name your zfs snapshots? By date, by a meaningful subject, etc?
<lovesegfault> cole-h: however the zfsautosnapshot thing does it
<lovesegfault> cole-h: ping
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<cole-h> lovesegfault: pong
<lovesegfault> cole-h: I want to reinstall NixOS b/c I need to repartition
<lovesegfault> (I want to move the Nix store outside of my crypt)
<samueldr> spooked by the skeletons?
<cole-h> lol
<lovesegfault> I know you recently reinstalled systems, but it's been almost 2y for me, did you fall for any traps? Anything I need to back up other than ssh keys and gpg keys?
<lovesegfault> samueldr: Yes, they spook me :(
<lovesegfault> I also really want to go CoW
<cole-h> Not really. You can see almost step-by-step what I did in my README: https://github.com/cole-h/nixos-config#setup-stuff
<lovesegfault> Jesus LORD 16GiB swap?
<cole-h> Might as well lol
<slack1256> "ALWAYS set your swap to the double of your ram" strikes again ;-)
<cole-h> Not double
<cole-h> Exactly my RAM
<samueldr> I don't know what's the current recommendation if you want to suspend to disk
<cole-h> I have room to spare, so I don't mind if it goes under-utilized :)
<cole-h> (Well, I have room /for now/)
<lovesegfault> samueldr: it's still double the RAM
<lovesegfault> but ZFS can't hibernate anyway
<cole-h> I only suspend to RAM anyways
<lovesegfault> FWIW: you only need a bit of swap to make it easier on the kernel to defrag ram, AIUI
* joepie91 has 32GB swap...
<joepie91> this was a misguided attempt at making hibernation work
<joepie91> I should've known better, with an old discrete GPU...
<joepie91> (pre-amdgpu AMD cards don't like being hibernated, generally)
<JJJollyjim> if i have a desktop machine doing a build, i would rather have the source files cached in memory than my background firefox tabs
<lovesegfault> going back in time
<gchristensen> lovesegfault: jeeze you iDRAC'ing?
<samueldr> that sounds painful
<lovesegfault> gchristensen: yep, lol
<lovesegfault> Something's wrong with the DHCP server in our data center and my machines keep changing IP
<cole-h> lovesegfault: How does `nix-shell` still run zsh for you? 👀 Is it just an alias or something?
<gchristensen> lol god
<gchristensen> lovesegfault: I hate, so much, that I knew that.
* cole-h cries in fish
<lovesegfault> gchristensen: I know you've seen pain
<gchristensen> lorri eyes.jpg
<cole-h> lorri cannot do `lorri -p --run 'cat --help'` :'(
<gchristensen> aye
<lovesegfault> ayoo new birkenstocks
<lovesegfault> I splurged on these really nice limited edition birks to celebrate my immigration stuff going through
<lovesegfault> They are so nice
<gchristensen> wow. this Debian 18.04 VM I just started installed Docker 1.5, which was 3 years old when 18.04 came out
* lovesegfault laughs in stability
<gchristensen> "stability"
* gchristensen laughs in upgrades that don't risk permanantly damaging the business
<lovesegfault> pff, who needs that!
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<JJJollyjim> Ugh
<JJJollyjim> I realised recently my granddad's laptop is on Debian 8 which is EOL
<JJJollyjim> So I'd like to upgrade it
<JJJollyjim> But he's super change-adverse when it comes to UI stuff
<JJJollyjim> So if they've like broken the DE he uses or whatever, I have no way of going back
<JJJollyjim> Should've gone with nixos :/
<energizer> JJJollyjim: which DE is it?
<energizer> if nixos has it, he might not notice the switch
<samueldr> any of them will have changed a bunch since the time debian 8 released
<samueldr> 2015 was its release date
<JJJollyjim> yeah I think I will switch, it's mate iirc
<JJJollyjim> which thankfully is the DE of "nope stop changing what my DE looks like" :P
<JJJollyjim> all he uses is firefox and libreoffice
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<lovesegfault> Hmm
<lovesegfault> Do I need networkmanager if I have iwd
<bqv> No
<energizer> networkmanager is a nice front-end tho
<JJJollyjim> Yeah, you can also easily use wpa_supplicant without iwd
<JJJollyjim> **without NM
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<hexa-> the benefit of having nm is that it is profile based
<hexa-> you can basically say in wifi network X i want that DNS server, or that static route
<hexa-> vertical integration between L2-L4
<hexa-> if you run just wpa_supplicant or iwd … what do you do?
<hexa-> have dhcpcd listen on the wifi interface?
<hexa-> but what if you need a static config for *that* network
<hexa-> or some other networks dns is just meh
<lovesegfault> Going to try to go without networkmanager and see what happens
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<samueldr> cats and dogs sleeping together into chaos
<drakonis> for freebsd
<drakonis> one of the primary contributors has been slowly moving into linux over the course of last year
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<lovesegfault> Alright, got rid of NetworkManager :)
<lovesegfault> Let's try using networkd now
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<ashkitten> im upset at icecast
<ashkitten> for some reason mopidy is failing to auth to icecast despite having the correct password
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<pie_> anyone ever see something like declarative screencasts? where you can compile a screencast from some sort of script?
<pie_> (not necessarily textual i suppose)
<pie_> though editing something like that sounds like it would be awkward because you cant really scrub around in a system execution like you can in video
<gchristensen> garbas made something like this for nixos homepage
<lovesegfault> Learning systemd-networkd
<lovesegfault> it's not bad
<{^_^}> nixos-homepage#425 (by garbas, 2 weeks ago, open): Landing page (second review cycle)
<lovesegfault> gchristensen: you around?
<pie_> ohhhh?
<pie_> hm where can i see the output
<pie_> (i was thinking for gui stuff but this is definitely a start)
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<pie_> cole-h: not sure where to find the demo on that page
* pie_ ctrl-f for some strings in the scenario
<pie_> oh doh
<pie_> its the video on the right
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<cole-h> (:
<pie_> looks like the outputs are hardcoded though?
<pie_> nvm im not reading
<gchristensen> lovesegfault: yes but I shouldn't be
<cole-h> Prepping for another talk? :P
<lovesegfault> gchristensen: it's a quick one: I have about 10 systems and I'd like to see at a glance if they're okay or dying or dead. What tool do you recommend?
<pie_> cole-h: who me? i dont rememebr ever giving one xD
<cole-h> pie_: No, gchristensen
<gchristensen> cole-h: nah, luckily :P
<pie_> ah
<cole-h> He seems to stay up late(r) when prepping a talk ;^)
<cole-h> lovesegfault: `ping`? :P
<pie_> i wonder if theres any good affordable text to speech stuff these days
<gchristensen> lovesegfault: I really like prometheus + grafana. if that is too heavy, I'd want to know more details
<pie_> ie f sufficient quality for said declarative screencasts
<lovesegfault> cole-h: I mean to monitor disk health, load, etc
<lovesegfault> gchristensen: I don't need much, just making sure disks aren't full and that the box is online
<cole-h> lovesegfault: We use grafana for ofborg monitoring: https://monitoring.nix.ci/d/000000002/ofborg?orgId=1&refresh=10s
<lovesegfault> Does prometheus have good NixOS support?
<lovesegfault> or, the other way around rather
<gchristensen> yeah
<cole-h> Good enough that we run grafana+prometheus+loki on a NixOS system ;^)
<lovesegfault> We use grafana at work, but I find it hard to create dashboards
<lovesegfault> cole-h: what's loki
<cole-h> Log aggregation
<lovesegfault> Ah
<cole-h> (I don't now if aggregation is the right word, but it definitely deals with logging from e.g. systemd units)
<gchristensen> yep
<gchristensen> lovesegfault: usually dashboards are hard to make b/c you don't know what you want to know yet
<lovesegfault> We use sumologic for log aggregation and I _hate_ it
<lovesegfault> gchristensen: it's like tests where it needs to fail for you to know to add a metric :P
<gchristensen> hehehe
<lovesegfault> I wish DHCP allows clients to ask for a preferred ip
<gchristensen> okay I'm going to wander off to bed now
<lovesegfault> gchristensen++
<{^_^}> gchristensen's karma got increased to 308, it's a crit!
<gchristensen> lovesegfault: definitely look at prom. you don't even need grafana :)
<lovesegfault> gchristensen: will do :)
<gchristensen> g'night!
* lovesegfault googles how to setup prometheus
<cole-h> lovesegfault: See the infra repo for how we host borg; specifically: https://github.com/ofborg/infrastructure/blob/a87a271f4b0b0fdecbe38ca632eada41fee1e094/nixops/modules/monitoring.nix#L65 might be of interest
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<JJJollyjim> Loki is pretty neat
<JJJollyjim> A hell of a lot simpler and faster than elasticsearch
<JJJollyjim> I still feel like it's much slower than grep though :/
<JJJollyjim> Apparently they're working on the performance next :P
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<Valodim> __monty__: did you ever solve your issue with avahi, where resolving hosts in the local domain resulted in a "system error"?
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<__monty__> Valodim: Ping me in a couple hours? I have it working most of the time. Sometimes I have to kill mdnsresponder on mac hosts though.
<Valodim> will do :)
<Valodim> it's a really weird issue, because my gf doesn't have it and we have been comparing configs (both on 20.03) and couldn't figure out any difference that might be responsible
<Valodim> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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<__monty__> Valodim: I'm back. I don't really remember doing anything special tbh.
<__monty__> Valodim: Here's my config: http://ix.io/2oaG
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<pie_> "In a major business-process innovation, Microsoft executes all three phases of 'embrace, extend, extinguish' simultaneously. "
<pie_> - ngate
<joepie91> lol
<eyJhb> `HDD: 175GB HD space` 175GB space?! How long have I been away from gaming
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<sphalerite> eyJhb: and that better be an SSD if you want it to load before the game's over :p
<sphalerite> (just speculation, have no experience confirming this)
<__monty__> I know storage has gotten a lot cheaper but imo that's just ridiculous.
<__monty__> Isn't 1TB the most common big drive in a laptop?
<__monty__> That's only 5 games.
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<eyJhb> __monty__: 1TB SSD?
<__monty__> Yeah
<eyJhb> For 1.400 EUR circa 500 GB SSD
<eyJhb> And that is expensive as hell
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<joepie91> __monty__: the unspoken factor here is Steam
<joepie91> they use Steam (and such) as a "storage unit" and only install what they want to play at the time, throw it away when they get bored, and reinstall it again later if they want to play it again
<joepie91> people don't leave all of their games installed all of the time
<__monty__> How? To me it looks more like "motivating" people to start using game streaming services.
<__monty__> You don't reinstall 175GB when you feel like playing some CoD. Takes too long.
<Valodim> or people just expect ridiculously high quality textures in a game that focuses on the visual experience?
<joepie91> __monty__: people regularly do, and often play the same game for a while.
<__monty__> Weird people.
<__monty__> There's no way I'd wait for such a big download to play CoD. I'd just pick whichever other game basically installs instantly.
<Valodim> at that point you're just arguing against market success. if it works for millions but not for you, that probably just means you're not part of the target audience
<Valodim> __monty__: I'll look at the mdns thing again in the evening. still at work :)
<__monty__> Oh, I'm sure I'm not the target market. But it's still ridiculous.
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<eyJhb> Watching someone get taught programming is fun
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<eyJhb> Especially when the teacher can't explain things, or is incorrect
<pie_> "error: mcomix has been removed from nixpkgs because its unmaintained"
<pie_> all this is going to achieve is that i set myself as the maintainer and then dont maintain it
<pie_> or keep referring to the old nixpkgs version that does have it
<__monty__> pie_: Or, you resort to a personal overlay which involves none of the red tape?
<pie_> factoring it out is more work :P
<pie_> i mean than referring to the old nixpkgs
<jtojnar> pie_ we want to get rid of pygtk so it will be even harder to export
<jtojnar> though we eventually managed to fix pygtk this time
<jtojnar> we do not want to have to keep fixing it
<jtojnar> there is a mcomix fork that might be better choice but it feels more like a "works-for-me maintenance" too: https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/75028
<{^_^}> #75028 (by worldofpeace, 25 weeks ago, open): Package mcomix3
<abathur> does cachix keep any download stats?
<__monty__> I took to using zathura (mupdf) for comics.
<hyperfekt> abathur: you may want to ask in #cachix
<abathur> hyperfekt: oops, good catch; meant to just say cache.
<adisbladis> pie_: mcomix is unmaintained by upstream
<adisbladis> There is a fork though https://github.com/multiSnow/mcomix3/
<pie_> :/
<pie_> knowing nix people i figured theres probably actually a good reason
<pie_> jtojnar: i kinda guessed this would be an upstream thing
<pie_> aaand yep of course its a 2/3 thing x)
<adisbladis> pie_: Mcomix3 also seems pretty terrible
<adisbladis> Like.. Wtf
<pie_> so i open the yacreader site and a big screenshot is NOT the first thing on the page
<adisbladis> What makes mcomix such a special snowflake they need a setup.py where they throw?!
<pie_> who comes up with this stuff
* pie_ sees if anything changes when he enables js
<pie_> can make a comic viewer but not a usable website
<pie_> sigh
<adisbladis> pie_: Friggin software...
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<cole-h> I've given up on JACK. I don't know how I made it work in a previous install, but it's a PITA. Now I usee pulseeffects's equalizer to reduce the volume to how it was with JACK :^)
<ldlework> cole-h: did you try my config?
<ldlework> What was going wrong with it?
<cole-h> Lots of xruns
<ldlework> I don't know what that is
<cole-h> On my Arch machine I got 0 xruns after switching to the zen kernel. No such dice here.
<cole-h> xruns are when your audio crackles/stutters/pops/what have you.
<ldlework> cole-h: did you try my config?
<cole-h> I did
<ldlework> And it was crackling?
<cole-h> I'm the one who got it to work automagically, remember? ;)
<ldlework> Right.
<cole-h> (With the cadence default.pa)
<ldlework> Right.
<ldlework> Thanks for that.
<cole-h> :P
<ldlework> Shame though.
<cole-h> But meh. The only reason I used JACK was because it was quiter than stock pulse
<ldlework> Mixing linux audio applications through Jack is one of life's pleasures.
<cole-h> But since somebody pointed me to pulseeffects, I'm satisfied
<adisbladis> cole-h: Huh? Quieter?
<adisbladis> What does that even mean?
<cole-h> Yep. Stock pulse I have to have system volume at ~25% for it to be bearable. With JACK I could go around 75%
<adisbladis> I don't get what you mean :P
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<adisbladis> Why is being louder a problem? :S
<cole-h> I don't know how I can be clearer :P Imagine stock pulseaudio is 0dB, and jack is -10dB. 0dB is too loud for my ears. -10dB is not.
<cole-h> Louder is a problem because it hurts my ears
<adisbladis> I don't see why just setting the gain lower is a problem
<MichaelRaskin> Because it is more convenient when most of the scale does something useful?
<JJJollyjim> I have a similar problem on windows, where the volume keys adjust by 2%, and I can't go above 4%
<ldlework> lol
<cole-h> JJJollyjim: Similar; I can't go above 20%.
<ldlework> Don't your speakers have a physics knob?
<adisbladis> Or the expensive option: Get higher impedance headphones :P
<cole-h> I don't have speakers :^)
<ldlework> Headphones with no hardware control?
<cole-h> I plug my HD558s directly into my front 3.5mm
<cole-h> (Because a DAC/AMP is also expensive)
<ldlework> On windows each sound device has a driver control
<ldlework> you have to literally go into the device driver
<adisbladis> cole-h: Nah, it can be pretty cheap even for a decent one
<ldlework> you cannot access it any other way
<ldlework> so if you haven't tried that, maybe that's your ticket
<cole-h> Sounds like a PITA for when I only boot into Windows to play Minecraft with good performance.
<cole-h> s/for//
<ldlework> it shouldn't change
<ldlework> so if like, overall the sound is just too loud
<ldlework> you can lower it in the device
<ldlework> bringing your frontend-volume controls into a normalized range
<cole-h> That's what volume @ 20% is for :P
<JJJollyjim> adisbladis: my motherboard has a decent one for free though :P
<ldlework> this seems like a problem you enjoy having
<adisbladis> JJJollyjim: For some values of decent I guess?
<adisbladis> I have yet to see a motherboard with builtin audio that doesn't suck
<ldlework> but is probably more helpful in JJJollyjim's case
<ldlework> who can only go up to 4% lol
<cole-h> adisbladis: I'm all ears for cheap solutions, especially if it has a little knob letting me change the volume :P
<ldlework> ....
<ldlework> .....................
<ldlework> what is cheaper
<ldlework> then opening the device manager and fixing the problem for free?
<cole-h> The fact that it doesn't solve it in Linux makes it a non-starter ;)
<ldlework> Seems like linux would have a knob too but I wont try to imply you didn't look :)
<adisbladis> I have the opposite problem :3 Most of my hardware can't drive my headphones to satisfactory volumes.
<cole-h> Hehe
<adisbladis> The biggest problem is my phone..
<adisbladis> I'd rather not listen to music that using that crap
<cole-h> I mean, I really have no qualms with my current solution of using pulseeffects's EQ to pin input and output to -20
<cole-h> Nor am I dissatisfied with 20% volume in Windows
<adisbladis> Sounds OK once set up
<ldlework> "why do the cars run a cluster of Ubuntu VMs"
<ldlework> O_O
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<MichaelRaskin> I hope the answer is «because if it was not a cluster, the boot loop would also take out the actual driving parts»
<ldlework> lol
<cole-h> Is there a way to allow an unprivieleged user create folders/files in rpool/system/media? Do I go for the simple chown/chgrp/chmod, or is there something fancier I can do?
<cole-h> (ZFS question, if it wasn't obvious ^)
<{^_^}> nixos-org-configurations#114 (by LnL7, 1 minute ago, open): fix race condition in channel exporter
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<drakonis> i'm seeing more nix users now
<drakonis> its weird
<cole-h> It's the year of the Nix desktop, right?
<drakonis> hmm
<drakonis> sure?
* cole-h was making a joke about "It's the year of the Linux desktop" being thrown around frequently
<drakonis> yes
<drakonis> tweag's website has a new theme
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<adisbladis> Quick protip: If you're gonna name a language "Painless" don't make debugging it a painful experience...
<cole-h> Which langage? ;)
<adisbladis> cole-h: The language is called Painless
<cole-h> lol really?
<cole-h> Nice.
<adisbladis> Yes really ^_^
<adisbladis> It's the default elasticsearch scripting language
<adisbladis> This is the first time in years I've done any elasticsearch scripting, last time the default one was groovy
<adisbladis> And before that it was mvel....
<adisbladis> I hope they can stick with it this time around :P
<adisbladis> Anyway, you can (I think?) only get a single value from a single document out of the debug statement
<ashkitten> it's a good thing nix isn't called painless
<cole-h> zzz
<cole-h> ashkitten: lol
<eyJhb> adisbladis: alias painless="painfull" ?
<joepie91> adisbladis: you know that it's gonna eventually converge on JS like everything else does, right :P
<joepie91> cole-h: you joke, but it really does seem to be the year of the Nix desktop
<joepie91> if the HN frontpage is any indication anyway :D
<eyJhb> What about servers?
<drakonis> again?
<drakonis> its back on the frontpage yet again?
<joepie91> oh dunno if it was on the frontpage again today
<joepie91> but it's been there so often in the past few weeks
<eyJhb> Wish we could track DLs from the cache (just number of hits)
<JJJollyjim> Just please don't track the 404s that are just hashes for secrets people keep in the store :P
<__monty__> Too bad they're not SHA-1 hashes : )
<eyJhb> JJJollyjim: Track, them, all \s :D
<JJJollyjim> Switch the nix store to PBKDF2 :P
<__monty__> I hear Blake3 can be used as a KDF.
<eyJhb> Why all the secrets?
<eyJhb> Base64
<eyJhb> :D
<JJJollyjim> Lol if I'm gonna be uploading the entire base64d derivation and sources to the cache I want it to do the build for me on a cache miss :P
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<cole-h> Is it possible to change the passphrase I've encrypted a zpool with? I came across https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E36784_01/html/E36835/gkkuo.html, but it seems like `zfs key` only exists on Oracle's ZFS
<gchristensen> "Key rotation is managed by ZFS. Changing the user's key (e.g. a passphrase) does not require re-encrypting the entire dataset. [...] see the zfs load-key subcommand for more info on key loading"
<gchristensen> and looks like change-key
<cole-h> I wish I could `man zfs-load-key`
<cole-h> Thanks gchristensen :)
<__monty__> I think only straight-up dmcrypt would not allow one to change the passphrase without reencrypting the disk.
<gchristensen> afaik `man zfs-load-key` is coming
<cole-h> omg really
<__monty__> Git-style help would also be nice.
<energizer> what would man nix-build do?
<cole-h> Show you the manpage for `nix-build` because `nix build` doesn't have a man page (^:
<cole-h> Regardless, this was about zfs's CLI, not nix's :P
<ohhaimark[m]> Is there a wrapper for the whole `symlinkJoin` `wrapProgram` idiom where I can just give a list of arguments to `wrapProgram`?
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<lovesegfault> cole-h: I backed up my ssh and gpg keys and all my passwords that I manage with gopass
<lovesegfault> what else am I missing?
<ashkitten> why does nginx sometimes give "permission denied" errors and need me to rm /var/cache/nginx and restart it to fix
<ashkitten> i don't understand
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<lovesegfault> gchristensen: I'm going to implement erase your darlings on my machine
<lovesegfault> pray for me
<gchristensen> woo!
<gchristensen> lovesegfault:
<gchristensen> lovesegfault: make sure to efine a password in your configuration file and not store your config in /etc if you erase /etc
<lovesegfault> gchristensen: Nah, I don't use nixos-rebuild I use nixus
<lovesegfault> I'm more concerned about figuring our what I need to persist
<lovesegfault> I wish there was a erase.your.darlings.wiki
<lovesegfault> with a table of program -> state dirs
<lovesegfault> iwd -> /var/lib/iwd
<gchristensen> that'd be cool
* lovesegfault sees if the domain is available
<lovesegfault> it is!
<energizer> nixos wiki would work too
<joepie91> never kill a good excuse for more infrastructure :P
<lovesegfault> blessed words
<energizer> oof
<gchristensen> just redirect it to a nixos wiki page
<energizer> it would be nice to have a more readable way of writing the tmpfiles L lines
<energizer> also it would be nice to avoid having all this important mutable state on my computer...
<energizer> is there a solution to that?
<abathur> lovesegfault: figuring out wtf everything is and where it came from can be pretty tedious, but unfortunately there also tends to be enough churn in where/what programs decide to save that I'm not sure how well anything can stay current without persistent effort
<energizer> abathur: just stick that effort in /persist no problem
<adisbladis> abathur: I haven't experienced much of that
<adisbladis> Granted I persist as little as possible
<cole-h> lovesegfault: I don't forget `-o mountpoint=legacy` when `zfs create`ing :)
<abathur> I persist as little as possible, but I still sift through it for changes
<energizer> would be nice to have some monitoring for new files in /
<abathur> git status -u? :P
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<lovesegfault> cole-h: good reminder
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