<drakonis>
nice job isnt even enough to describe it
<drakonis>
they won't include packages if they cannot bootstrap
<drakonis>
so that rules out a significant amount of packages
<danderson>
sometimes I daydream of doing hardcore bootstrapping: build a very simple computer by hand, hard-wire a machine code input routine to it, use that to input an assembler, use the assembler to write a C compiler barely smart enough to build a proper C compiler...
<julm>
GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!, I've invented a new shining compiler (based upon a dusty one you mush fetch from this IP over Time address)
<danderson>
... or just close my eyes and believe in the universe
<drakonis>
they also write build systems that go around the existing systems
<danderson>
Building my Thing, step 1: locate a PDP-7, and...
<drakonis>
haw.
<gchristensen>
danderson: I won't believe you until you're starting from ben eater's kit
<danderson>
gchristensen: that filthy casual uses integrated circuits
<danderson>
THEY MIGHT NOT BE DOING WHAT HE THINKS THEY'RE DOING
<gchristensen>
only later on... he starts without them!
<danderson>
hard mode: first, build a working Analytical Engine
<danderson>
"I have constructed this computer out of rocks, vine, driftwood, and a river. However, it occured to me that I could not determine whether or not the river's flow was being maliciously altered. Therefore..."
<cole-h>
I like to thing I'm the reason why ble.sh and oil first intersected. I was asking for fish-like autosuggestions, when the author of ble.sh chimed in (and the rest is history)
<cole-h>
;^)
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<samueldr>
?!? github finally implemented a passable narrow view to some of their pages?
<qyliss>
mrustc is occasionally updated, though, so it shouldn't expand infinitely
<adisbladis>
To be clear: I still think it's worth it :)
<qyliss>
Good :)
<qyliss>
I'd also like non-bootstrapped packages to be clearly marked.
<qyliss>
(Ideally I'd like there not to be any, but suspect that's not going to fly ;))
<andi->
I have such a rust bootstrap branch somewhere.. Did work on that before the new year.. Just never completed it as the feedback cycle was insane
<qyliss>
The first big contribution I ever did to Nixpkgs I did gradually, with long nightly builds that sometimes wouldn't be finished when I woke up
<qyliss>
(Building LibreOffice on Darwin)
<qyliss>
andi-: I'd be happy to have a go at continuing if you were interested?
<andi->
yeah, I just have to revive that old laptop that I haven't touched since December :)
<qyliss>
ahhh
<andi->
I think I only ported mrustc and did some experiments with how to wire it into the bootstrapping of rustc (on supported platforms)
* andi-
revives the device
<eyJhb>
Anyone in need of a new laptop? I might get my hands on three Lenevo E520
<Taneb>
I wouldn't say no... but I don't really need a new laptop rn
<joepie91>
it's like one step removed from it though :P
<ashkitten>
siiigh
<adisbladis>
andi-: That's gonna celebrate their chiclet ones....
<ashkitten>
my search continues
<joepie91>
so this seems at least useful as proof that it can be done
<adisbladis>
andi-: At that point they've likely transitioned into full touch screen
<joepie91>
and might actually be useful as a reference to create a derived design...
<andi->
adisbladis: yiieeks. NO
<adisbladis>
That keyboard is sooo nice
<adisbladis>
I wish they revived the 701c
<adisbladis>
I don't care about thin or sleek
<adisbladis>
Just gimme a tiny laptop with a big fat keyboard with niiice long travel
<joepie91>
ashkitten: I vaguely recall having seen a mechanical schematic of that butterfly keyboard, fwiw
<joepie91>
in the service manual for that laptop maybe?
<ashkitten>
hm
<adisbladis>
701c == porn
<joepie91>
yes :P
<adisbladis>
Imo that's peak laptop
<etu>
I've read that System76 is building new keyboards for their laptops where they split up the spacebar for example
<etu>
and that the keyboard will run QMK
<etu>
That's pretty neat to be a laptop keyboard tbh
<ashkitten>
i'm gonna stop thinking about this rn. i've got too many things i want and not enough money, and frankly at the top of the list of things i think would be beneficial to my life atm is a vr headset
<qyliss>
adisbladis: I'm just going to keep buying Thinkpad x220/x230s forever
<ashkitten>
which is not possible anytime soon
<joepie91>
ashkitten: what's your motivation for a VR headset?
<ashkitten>
eh, don't really prefer to talk about it atm
<joepie91>
okay :)
<joepie91>
(was meant as a curiosity question for the record, not a critical one)
<ashkitten>
no, it's just a jumble of personal reasons
<ashkitten>
i don't like discussing life things in public channels
<joepie91>
understandable
<qyliss>
andi-: thanks :)
<eyJhb>
qyliss: my man! That is the reason I have stashed all my x230s
<adisbladis>
etu: But will they have a trackpoint ?
<andi->
qyliss: feel free to keep me in the loop. I think bootstrapping properly and sources builds vs just some random binaries is really important :)
<adisbladis>
qyliss: I've been very tempted to get a 51nb...
<etu>
adisbladis: Probably not
<adisbladis>
etu: I'll never get a laptop without a trackpoint :/
<etu>
adisbladis: Same here.
<adisbladis>
Touchpads == race to the bottom lowest common denominator crap
<joepie91>
oh man, the jumping-around Download button
<joepie91>
I haven't seen that since dubious dynamicdriver/jskit scripts back in the early 2000s
<joepie91>
dynamicdrive*
<joepie91>
I can really appreciate how someone went through the effort of getting that page right accessibility-wise; alt text for the unicorn divider, graceful degradation without JS...
<adisbladis>
Knome is the epitome of good UX
<MichaelRaskin>
adisbladis: and lowest on the wrong dimension! I am pretty sure that a 90's touchpad I have used would be cheaper to continue producing than all the clickpad garbage. And they worked better.
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<adisbladis>
MichaelRaskin: Mine is relegated to being scroll only
<adisbladis>
As in you can _only_ use it for scrolling
<joepie91>
adisbladis: you know, the KNOME site is genuinely better than either the GNOME or the KDE site in terms of appeal to potential users :P
<MichaelRaskin>
It's a waste that they just do a rickroll
<srk>
this
<srk>
it even works in surf! but rickroll is a fail as youtube says that they'll soon stop supporting this browser xD
<MichaelRaskin>
Should have linked to suckless.org
<srk>
!!
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<ashkitten>
ugh, so much spam like `shared:WARNING: object /run/user/1000/emscripten_temp_ed51J9_archive_contents/unicorn-2c633bb3266f7fb6.unicorn.5651kjk1-cgu.0.rcgu.o is not valid according to llvm-nm, cannot link`
<ashkitten>
i should go to sleep and not try to run my 253 byte demo on the web using probably multiple megabytes of webassembly
<ashkitten>
web-kvm when
<ashkitten>
(never, ash. that's incredibly silly}
<ashkitten>
lol, the wrapper program is 10 megabytes stripped (compiled for native x86)
<tilpner>
I guess we can add "thank you! nixos is better than pr0n!" to our list of recommendations
<gchristensen>
what? hah
<tilpner>
See #nixos
<gchristensen>
amazing
<etu>
That's a testimonial for the website :p
<tilpner>
Haha, 19.09 has a newer Nix than 20.03
<makefu>
these testimonials would've made an awesome april's fool prank on the front page
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<ldlework>
i was having a nix vs guix thing
<ldlework>
and the other person linked the modules for bash for both
<ldlework>
lol neither were particularly impressive
<ldlework>
from a "look how beautiful this is!" perspective
<makefu>
ldlework: by chance you were not in the nixos telegram group?
<__monty__>
Should make a joke 20.04 release.
<ldlework>
makefu: i was not
<eyJhb>
__monty__: are you still on the old laptop?
<__monty__>
Yeah.
<eyJhb>
What was the reason for it again?
<__monty__>
Not having access to anything else?
<eyJhb>
I just seem to remember you had something else, and then something happened
<__monty__>
Oh, yeah, the T400 died :"(
<eyJhb>
Oh right, how did it die?
<__monty__>
Very dramatically.
<__monty__>
It took a couple days.
<__monty__>
Messing up the display.
<__monty__>
Then disabling it completely.
<__monty__>
And then not starting up anymore.
<makefu>
ldlework: i left this group because of the ignorance of some people there with regards to pulling on the same side instead of fighting against each other.
<gchristensen>
ouch
<ldlework>
makefu: i just thought it funny that they tried to demonstrate how much more beautiful lisp is than nix and both were pretty bad
<ldlework>
the lisp was just one huge function
<ldlework>
i have no idea why lisp programmers do this
<ldlework>
so much of the emacs lisp code is this way
<ldlework>
you literally have one of the most refactorable languages that exists and there's just these monster blobs everywhere O_O'
<makefu>
:D
<ldlework>
i tried to argue that nix also has functions and you can refactor it too
<ldlework>
but it seems like "package managers" and "standard libraries" are just immune to a refactored style
<eyJhb>
__monty__: no power at all? :(
<__monty__>
eyJhb: Nop
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<eyJhb>
Poor little thing. I might be able to provide you with a new one if 1. Shipping isn't too much and 2. All goes well
<eyJhb>
The E520 I mentioned above
<eyJhb>
But no clue if you are interested in that __monty__
<joepie91>
ldlework: I have the same frustration about JS. the language is so well-suited to writing good abstractions, and yet the majority of people just slap together some jquery spaghetti monster and never bother with it
<joepie91>
in the case of JS I can explain it with "a lot of people coming from other languages, using JS because they are required to, not bothering to learn it properly and just importing their habits from elsewhere" -- but lisps don't have that excuse...
<__monty__>
eyJhb: Don't worry about it. I can manage with a desktop I have.
<__monty__>
I'd expect it to be more about the number of inexperienced people that write JS.
<eyJhb>
__monty__: up to you :) I will have three of them around, two at least
<tilpner>
gchristensen: So, uhm, I just canceled the counting :/
<gchristensen>
wow
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56294
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<colemickens>
I'm pretty stumped. My Android wireguard clients connect to my nixos wireguard host and everything works fine. But iOS and Windows clients don't seem to route traffic properly.
<tilpner>
Did you check their issue trackers?
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<colemickens>
All I can find is the ML and I haven't found anything for the past several months.
<colemickens>
Closest I feel like I've been was some ipv4/ipv6 stuff, but even disabling ipv6 everywhere I could didn't help.
<joepie91>
__monty__: unfortunately not, the quarantine hasn't really changed anything for me (other than having *less* time, relatively speaking). I have been considering recently to work on that though, but not gotten around to it yet
<__monty__>
Ok, no problem. Just figured I'd ping.
<julm>
tilpner: regarding the lack of pruning of your ZFS snapshots, are you using sanoid? if yes then it may be a consequence of a NixOS bug I reported yesterday https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/83904
<tilpner>
What will you do differently, depending on the answer?
<gchristensen>
I want to craft a docker image where, when you pull it, it lists fetching many layers all starting with 666420666420
<cole-h>
:D
<gchristensen>
(I'm an adult yes, why do you ask)
<eyJhb>
gchristensen: bruteforce?
<tilpner>
That is simultaneously reassuring and disappointing c.c
<gchristensen>
oh?
<eyJhb>
Well.. Wonder how each layer is sha256. Because using the daemon will take forever
<gchristensen>
yeah
<eyJhb>
Damn it gchristensen ... Wanted to finish up my firewall project, but now I am curious
<gchristensen>
hehehe
<tilpner>
approx. 7.0537894E18 d + 20 h + 52 min + 18.079508 s
<gchristensen>
sounds hard
<tilpner>
I'm not sure I calculated the right value, but it's the message I meant
<tilpner>
Of course, we don't know your budget
<tilpner>
Maybe you can get a large nation to buy into this Docker image if you sell it right
<MichaelRaskin>
Hmm. And people haven't even started trying to remotely exploit Zoom, right?
<tilpner>
"gchristensen: Hey Packet, I have this super secret project, but you trust me, right?"
<gchristensen>
I already hit my max of 100 m1.xlarge's ....
<cransom>
'i need to run this other client for a bit instead of foldingathome'
<MichaelRaskin>
I think _one_ 420666 per layer (cheap enough) but a ton of layers will look impressive anyway
<gchristensen>
lol
<MichaelRaskin>
I guess a remote exploit would leave Zoom above Sony rootkit in the hall of indelible shame; a virus exploiting Zoom holes locally for rootkit aims might be enough to reach parity, though.
<__monty__>
tilpner: How did you get to that figure?
<tilpner>
__monty__: Incorrectly, and then by finding the sha256 hashrate of any tesla gpu, because graham has (had?) one of those
<gchristensen>
I have 1 and had 2 K80's and one K40 but I'm going to pretend I have 0 because I don't want to buy another new computer
<__monty__>
Aiui, gchristensen is looking for a (partial) preimage attack. Which when brute-forced takes 2^n evaluations of the hash function, where n is the number of bits in the hash, in this case 12. 2^12 = 4096 evaluations. So depending on the size of what's hashed this sounds like a very feasible attack.
<gchristensen>
a layer can be very small :)
<MichaelRaskin>
gchristensen: also, are you sure they did not get critical damage anyway?
<tilpner>
__monty__: 12 bytes, not bits
<gchristensen>
MichaelRaskin: I'm not sure! it is quite possible they didn't
<MichaelRaskin>
__monty__: 12 bits or 12 nibbles
<gchristensen>
but I only plugged 2 in at the time, so at a maximum 1 is dead
<gchristensen>
but I only plugged 1 in at the time, so at a maximum 1 is dead
<MichaelRaskin>
Ah
<__monty__>
Ah, right. That's a very different number : )
<tilpner>
MichaelRaskin: Yeah, "a hex prefix that is 12 bytes long" or "a hex prefix for 12 bytes"
<tilpner>
Not sure which was meant
<tilpner>
Though the example suggests the former
<tilpner>
In which case you're right, it's only 6 bytes
<adisbladis>
pie_[bnc]: :D
<eyJhb>
gchristensen: I want to create a 2*127 message and use the first 4 bytes as the message now
<eyJhb>
`aad63a933944: Pull complete `
<eyJhb>
12 bytes for me
<__monty__>
If it's nibbles bruteforcing'd still take 35k years : /
<tilpner>
__monty__: With which hashrate?
<__monty__>
256 hash function evaluations per second.
<tilpner>
That seems doable now
<tilpner>
where "many" has the value of 2
<tilpner>
As in, less than three days per layer, if the layers can be small enough
<MichaelRaskin>
Small enough as in too small to have enough options to get a desired 12-nibble hash prefix?
<tilpner>
(Probably still entirely wrong though)
<__monty__>
I took the MB/s on an Ivy lake CPU from wiki and assumed 1MB for a layer was reasonable.
<MichaelRaskin>
I think you could hash _most_ of the layer, then change a small piece in the end of the layer file
<MichaelRaskin>
Put hash extension attacks to a good use!
<eyJhb>
MichaelRaskin: that is the best way. But how the layer is hashed and what needs to be included is also important
<eyJhb>
If I was a faster typer I could do more
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<gchristensen>
"The Massachusetts Nurses Association – the state’s largest nurses’ union – says almost 100 nurses at BMC are under quarantine for potential exposure to the virus, not all of whom worked in direct contact with COVID-19 patients."
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<cole-h>
Trying to `nix-shell -p rabbitmq-server` starts me on a path to rebuild erlang 22.3, even though I set `nixpkgs-overlays=/var/empty` and the rabbitmq-server 3.8.3 build succeded :')
<kraem>
just switched from font hack -> isoevka, how refreshing :)
<cole-h>
Similar situation here, just switched from JetBrains -> Iosevka