gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
<colemickens> cole-h: trololol https://i.imgur.com/mOnnr9O.png
<colemickens> ignore that I googled that in the first place, of course
<drakonis> too much information
<colemickens> searched for a different repo earlier, could only find my issue about building it in my overlay. google's indexers are having downtime
<colemickens> I wonder how many people do Windows ports using only CI machines :P
<MichaelRaskin> There is always Wine!
<clever> colemickens: iohk is now building the entire windows installer for daedalus, with linux and cross-compilers
<colemickens> neat! Is there an example that I can peek at or is it secret sauce?
<clever> colemickens: its all on github
<colemickens> I didn't realize how much I wanted that until right now.
<cole-h> colemickens: D:
<colemickens> cool, right, I'll go poke around Daedalus, it's been on my list to look at
<clever> colemickens: on the daedalus side directly, there is a cross-compiled nsis, yarn2nix, and some electron wizardy to package things up without any windows machines
<clever> colemickens: then it depends on cardano-wallet, cardano-node, and cardano-shell, which are haskell projects using haskell.nix to cross-compile everything
<colemickens> oops, brain fart reading nix
<clever> colemickens: that runs some haskell code to generate an nsis script
<colemickens> yeah. trying to trace to where the nsis template/script is?
<colemickens> make-installer generates it? where's that?
<clever> colemickens: installers/common/WindowsInstaller.hs
<colemickens> aha, thanks for the quick guide, this is fun to think about
<clever> colemickens: its using a haskell library called nsis, that is using an EDSL, to let you easily write nsis scripts
<clever> it lets you treat the nsis script more like a functional monad
* colemickens grimaces - eclipsensis
<colemickens> I guess if it's complicated enough to benefit from an edsl, then maybe also an ide if you dont have the edsl, heh
<clever> colemickens: nsis is also somewhat stack based, like the internals of lua, so you have to pop things after calling functions, which can get messy
<clever> colemickens: and this part is where i had some trouble but angerman from haskell.nix got it working
<clever> colemickens: this will cross-compile some partial installers, with the actual data&script missing
<clever> colemickens: and then native-compile the makensis binary, which will compress your files, compile the nsis script into some kind of bytecode, then assemble it with the partial installers, to make a working installer binary
<clever> colemickens: then you can just run makensis on a .nsi file, and out pops an installer
<cole-h> So, I just froze my win10 VM. Like I can move the mouse and stuff, but I can't open task manager lol
<colemickens> that's very appealing
<cole-h> And I can still hear my professor lecturing
<cole-h> But I can't see jack
<clever> colemickens: an example nsi script, https://gist.github.com/cleverca22/4cd94157def2e4db2b7c5b7eb8a9c99e
<colemickens> okay, so why nsis?
<colemickens> did you want/need the flexibility, does it do something, or is this state-of-art for Windows installer tech?
<clever> colemickens: it was already using nsis when i joined iohk, and it works fine
<colemickens> aha, okay
<clever> colemickens: nsis also supports plugins...
<colemickens> yeah, I saw something a firewall plugin maybe? wondered if that was part of it
<colemickens> plus the lua scripting + nix seems like you could have fun writing various abstractions if one wanted to expand this
<clever> colemickens: i then used that as an example, and wrote my own plugin to wrap LockFileEx(), https://github.com/input-output-hk/daedalus/pull/1981/files
<clever> colemickens: that lets me grab a lock from the nsis script, but its currently not able to react to success/failure
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<joepie91> another box has been sorted \o/
* joepie91 uploaded an image: IMG_1491.JPG (3395KB) < https://pixie.town/_matrix/media/r0/download/pixie.town/glYLRXSuDIqxbqLHykancOOU >
<cole-h> Wow, that was fast :o
<samueldr> mixing the resistor types?
<samueldr> though I figure that for your case it's likely irrelevant
<samueldr> (pun totally accidental)
<joepie91> samueldr: yeah
<joepie91> this is like, cheapest-chinesium-grade
<samueldr> I kinda assumed because of what you said yesterday :)
<joepie91> it's not like anything about these resistors can be trusted anyway :P
<infinisil> Played around with pulseaudio a bit today
<infinisil> It's not as bad as I imagined it to be!
<cole-h> "Played around" how?
<infinisil> I set it up such that I can do an OBS recording with three different audio sources, the sfx of a game, the music, and voice
<genevino> give jack a try maybe? ;)
<infinisil> And then I made it output multiple audio track for different combinations
<clever> infinisil: ive done similar before, i setup a few null sinks, then routed game and other to different null-sinks
<infinisil> clever: Yeah I did something like that too :)
<clever> infinisil: then i had obs stream the monitor of the game null-sink
<genevino> infinisil: yeah you probably want to have a look at jack. and you can even configure pulseaudio as a jack sink, btw.
<clever> infinisil: and used a PA loopback to pipe the null-sink back into the main audio mix, so i could hear it normally
<clever> genevino: yeah, jack has a much better UI for this all, but i think you could just make a UI over the whole pulse mess too
<pie_[bnc]> yeah i just use JACK
<infinisil> genevino: I might do in the future yeah :)
<infinisil> (Though I actually don't need this for anything)
<clever> genevino: my biggest problem with jack, is that very few programs support it, so you wind up having to pipe things in&out anyways, thru stuff like pulse
<genevino> clever: well all i'm saying is jack solves headaches :)
<pie_[bnc]> oh i see it was already mentioned
<pie_[bnc]> anyway if infinisil tries to get jack running maybe the nixos module will finally be made to work in a useful way
<infinisil> Hehe
<genevino> kek
<infinisil> You have discovered my one weakness
<clever> infinisil: i also have a secondary problem with obs, something to do with the number of windows (i think) is causing obs to leak memory like mad
<pie_[bnc]> currently i kill pulse and run pulse and jack manually
<clever> infinisil: as-in, my swap usage increases at a rate of 1gig/minute, when obs is open
<pie_[bnc]> because i wasnt able to figure out a way to get everything else to work for me
<pie_[bnc]> genevino: sounds to me like you have a clue about jack?
<genevino> pie_[bnc]: not sure, i made music with it
<pie_[bnc]> idk if something on my system is effed up locally (probably) because I had a hell of a time figuring out how to get it to work and the error messages are pretty useless
* clever heads off to bed
<pie_[bnc]> or, well, the errors from the pulse jack plugins are real bad at least
<pie_[bnc]> sure but you can still use jack for the complex routing part<clever> genevino: my biggest problem with jack, is that very few programs support it, so you wind up having to pipe things in&out anyways, thru stuff like pulse
<genevino> pie_[bnc]: well that whole thing of getting audio to run is a bit like try&error under linux, especially if you're after low latency and multiple inputs/outputs and re-chaining stuff.
<pie_[bnc]> yeah i didnt deal with real time stuff i just wanted routing
<genevino> pie_[bnc]: yes absolutely, but IF a program supports it, you get the benefits of super low latency
<genevino> pie_[bnc]: and being able to control A LOT OF inputs at a time.
<pie_[bnc]> i use my phone microphone over plumble-mumble-jack-pulse because i didnt want to buy one and my laptop mic is crap
<infinisil> musnix still seems active!
<genevino> if you have proper audio hardware, you basically WANT jack.
<genevino> like there's no reason not to use it.
<genevino> when making music, every ms basically counts. you want to have the least latency you can have with your setup.
<genevino> the bad news is that macos is still superior in terms of user friendliness and usability when it comes to audio support, but the good news is that you have more control and better tools in linux (better tools as in what the OS delivers to put you in control, not in the availability of proprietary DAW software)
<genevino> it's not unlikely that some component goes bonkers in a linux audio setup, but at least you have all the tools to identify and isolate (damn covid19 is affecting my vocabulary) the component
<genevino> also for routing multiple inputs/outputs at a time, jack is quite okayish
<pie_[bnc]> yeah im happy with the routing capabilities i think
<pie_[bnc]> its kind of annoying when programs are implemented not-great and devices come and go
* pie_[bnc] watches https://invidio.us/watch?v=o_4EX4dPppA "The Hard Parts of Open Source" by Evan Czaplicki
<gchristensen> infinisil: deeply regretting having rpool/{root,home,nix} right now since I can't snapshot root,home atomically without filling my disk with nix snaps :(
<gchristensen> and the migration is a bit spooky
<infinisil> rpool/root contains what?
<gchristensen> /
<gchristensen> (a ton of services and what-not,from before my days of erasing my servers' /'s)
<pie_[bnc]> the titledoesnt do the talk justice probably -*- pie_[bnc] watches https://invidio.us/watch?v=o_4EX4dPppA "The Hard Parts of Open Source" by Evan Czaplicki
<infinisil> gchristensen: This is my layout: https://paste.infinisil.com/5rm4CJfpFk
<infinisil> Generated with `findmnt -t zfs -o target,source`
<infinisil> I guess I never bothered about /, not backing it up
<infinisil> (other than /var/lib and /home)
<gchristensen> yeah
<gchristensen> I do similar
<infinisil> Why would you want to take snapshots of root and home combined though?
<infinisil> Or just root even?
<infinisil> Ah
<infinisil> The ton of services from before
<infinisil> Right
<infinisil> Oh, but what's the point of snapshots if the data doesn't change anymore?
<gchristensen> it does, this server is from before I adopted that
<infinisil> Ah I see
<gchristensen> okay way past my bedtime
<gchristensen> g'night
<infinisil> Night!
<infinisil> I wanted to use the ZNC watch module <https://wiki.znc.in/Watch> to put all messages that mention me into a buffer, so I never miss when somebody pinged me
<infinisil> But it turns out that the buffer watch writes to isn't persistent, it gets lost when I reconnect :/
<infinisil> Hm, I guess this: https://github.com/znc/znc/issues/988
<{^_^}> znc/znc#988 (by Mikaela, 4 years ago, open): *watch: use query buffers instead of own implementation / send messages to all detached clients when they appear
<cole-h> I just spilled hard cider all over my mousepad and on part of my keyboard... :(
<cole-h> Luckily I have a backup keyboard for situations like this, but it's so unsatisfying to type on
<samueldr> musn't be that hard if it can be spilled
<pie_[bnc]> hard-not-to-spill-cider
<pie_[bnc]> wait cole-h are you why youtube had a hiccup?
<pie_[bnc]> failover took a few minutes it seems
<cole-h> pie_[bnc]: Yep, that was me, sorry ;^)
<cole-h> samueldr++ Keep the puns coming, my friend. Free karma for you.
<{^_^}> samueldr's karma got increased to 223
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<cole-h> Good news! My keyboard seems to have risen from the dead! Numpad works again (it didn't immediately after being in the splash zone): 123456789/*-+
<pie_[bnc]> for now? :P
<cole-h> ...for now.
<cole-h> It's the perfect excuse to look into getting a new keyboard, though 👀
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<eyJhb> colemickens: ergodox? :p
<eyJhb> Oh
<eyJhb> Wrong tag, and cole-h died
<eyJhb> Anyone up for some statistics help? This assignment - https://i.imgur.com/By4Z9w8.png and unsure how to use the sum on the discrete values - https://i.imgur.com/qm6QBKN.png
<ashkitten> hmm i want an option for `nix run` that lightly sandboxes the program so it doesn't litter my homedir with configs and state if i'm just testing an app
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<LnL> nix-build? :D
<MichaelRaskin> eyJhb: your formula looks like a sum of expectation formula for discrete case and expectation formula for continuous case
<MichaelRaskin> LnL: accessing the app running inside nix-build is a bit cumbersome, though
<LnL> yeah I know
<MichaelRaskin> (I have actually done that at some point, though)
<LnL> I wonder how difficult nix-shell --sandbox would be
<MichaelRaskin> Depending on how much you want to sandbox and how well you want to manage it
<LnL> in theory it's the exact same thing as a build does, just attached to the current tty
<MichaelRaskin> Well, does it include network isolation (correct answer: configurable)
<MichaelRaskin> What you allow as preserved state, corresponding to outputs?
<MichaelRaskin> There is tty, but then there is also X11 or Wayland session
<LnL> right, but that isn't really sandboxed anymore then
<MichaelRaskin> Not fully anymore, but still usefully
<ashkitten> really i just want to set $HOME as a tmpdir for the sandbox, and block access to the home directory (but you can pass in specific files and directories to be bind-mounted in)
<MichaelRaskin> Yeah, very nice functionality (I have it on my system by wrapping nsjail stuff)
<MichaelRaskin> But managing the details of the blocking is a bit messy
<ashkitten> actually, a very clean solution for my specific wants would be for it to give it a chroot with your whole filesystem hierarchy as a temporary overlayfs so any changes would not be persistent
<ashkitten> since i don't care about actually blocking read access to anything, i just don't want to create new state
<LnL> stop with the feature creep :D
<LnL> might take a poke a shuffling the code around
<ashkitten> i wonder if i could implement this as a shell.nix? you can make chroots with that, right? like fhsenv or whatever
<ashkitten> fshenv*
<ashkitten> wait, no
<ashkitten> got it right the first time
<ashkitten> ashkitten++
<{^_^}> ashkitten's karma got decreased to 4
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<sphalerite> ashkitten: buildfhsuserenv won't allow you to use overlay mounts, user+mount namespace only allows bind mounts for unprivileged users
<MichaelRaskin> + tmpfs
<srk> > builtins.storePath
<{^_^}> <PRIMOP>
<srk> > builtins.storeDir
<{^_^}> "/nix/store"
<srk> > builtins.storePath "x"
<{^_^}> string 'x' doesn't represent an absolute path, at (string):308:1
<srk> > builtins.storePath "/x"
<{^_^}> access to path '/x' is forbidden in restricted mode
<srk> mysterious builtin of the day
<LnL> what's mysterious about it?
<adisbladis> srk:
<adisbladis> > builtins.storePath pkgs.hello
<{^_^}> access to path '/nix/store/wwrhgby67wrs35v48kaj0aprm8imi587-hello-2.10' is forbidden in restricted mode
<{^_^}> nix#3526 (by domenkozar, 1 week ago, open): Document builtins.storePath
<srk> basically unsafeDiscardStringContext?
<LnL> ah in that way
<LnL> nono, the opposite
<srk> gives me the same result when testing in repl
<srk> oh
<srk> nvm
<LnL> take a string that's a real store path and convert it to a path so dependencies are tracked
<srk> I see, thanks
<LnL> nix-repl> :t "${builtins.storePath "/nix/store/4w99qz14nsahk0s798a5rw5l7qk1zwwf-hello-2.10"}" a string with context
<LnL> that's how lib.toDerivation allows you to introduce an arbitrary store path as a fake derivation for example
<srk> started to RE string contexts only recently, they are missing in nix thesis /o\ :D
<srk> LnL: maybe I should add your explanation to that ticket?
<LnL> sounds great :)
<srk> cool, done
<LnL> one case I often use this for is deploying a dev build of something on a system
<LnL> instead of messing with awkward derivations, nix copy + lib.toDerivation
<srk> nice, that's indeed useful sometimes
<srk> escape hatches <3
<srk> LnL++
<{^_^}> LnL's karma got increased to 45
<LnL> yeah, you loose all traceability but it's a nice shortcut for testing/debugging
<hyperfekt> channel blockers are now linked on the status page? that's so cool
<LnL> yep, it's a bit hacky but mostly work
<joepie91> LnL: it's mostly work, or it mostly works? :D
<LnL> works*
<eyJhb> MichaelRaskin: think I solved it
<eyJhb> Btw. how do you jail everything?
<MichaelRaskin> Not really _everything_
<eyJhb> What do you jail?
<MichaelRaskin> But a lot of things, yes
<MichaelRaskin> I try to jail whatever handles too-big-not-to-fail formats. Modern web, PDF, office formats, images of imperfect provenance
<MichaelRaskin> I have not yet reached the level of enlightenment needed to have Vim and DVCS run in separate jails, no.
<MichaelRaskin> Technical implementation: [a ton of Common Lisp code manages all of that, and there are a few couple-of-syscalls C helpers, but all of that is not too expensive to reimplement]
<MichaelRaskin> So each program gets an nsjail with some global stuff like /nix and /dev/null and whatever extra is requested
<MichaelRaskin> Separately, network namespaces are in use in a large fraction of cases.
<MichaelRaskin> From the outside point of view, nsjails run under separate UIDs; most of the UIDs used are throwaway
<MichaelRaskin> Network access is proxied inside the jail using socat. So many containment units have access to DNS and Squid proxy without direct network access.
<__monty__> MichaelRaskin: Any rationale for the CL predilection? Or just the devil you know?
<MichaelRaskin> Just general «I want a weird design, so I want to match stuff with language constructs, so macros»
<MichaelRaskin> Julia sometimes changes; embedded DSLs in Ruby would still be kind of limiting in some cases.
<MichaelRaskin> Also, it is nice to integrate with StumpWM with lower mismatch.
<__monty__> I was thinking more like Guile since it's the language GNU wants to standardize on.
<MichaelRaskin> I do sometimes debug things by live-reloading single functions, so Rust would be harder, I guess.
<MichaelRaskin> I guess full macros + single-function live-reloading + low-churn ecosystem already spells Common Lisp?
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<ornxka> why is nix fixed point implementation not in a file called fix.nix
<viric> ah your jails are your own thing, MichaelRaskin ?
<emily> you say "single-function live-reloading", I say a great way for your dev environment to get out of sync with the files that actually declare it
<emily> feel like Racket's deviation from that model is more of an advantage than something lacking
<MichaelRaskin> viric: yes, on top of nsjail and unshare and some glue
<viric> ah interesting. I didn't know any of that.
<adisbladis> I was toying around with OCI for sandboxing yesterday http://ix.io/2kiI + http://ix.io/2kiJ/python
<MichaelRaskin> I guess once qyliss declares VM-to-VM communication with CrosVM stable I should consider migrating most of the isolation to CrosVM
<adisbladis> I've been trying to figure out how we could get container based tests for NixOS
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<MichaelRaskin> So basically how to run systemd inside nix-build?
<adisbladis> MichaelRaskin: Yep
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<adisbladis> I'm not even sure it's possible
<MichaelRaskin> It all depends in what the exact annoying way namespaces hate us
<MichaelRaskin> Then there is the question of cgroups control, of course
<adisbladis> Also related but I have a dream of making a "better" NixOS container solution not tied to systemd-nspawn
<MichaelRaskin> Speaking of dreams, I would like something like nix-darwin but for Linux
<infinisil> adisbladis: Something that would work on darwin as well?
<adisbladis> infinisil: Maybe? Are there OCI runtimes on Darwin?
* infinisil looks up "OCI runtimes"
<adisbladis> (I don't think there is, it's not even in the OCI spec)
<viric> I'm trying Tribler
<adisbladis> infinisil: ^
<viric> Tribler 7.4.x crash on NixOS after a minute of running (bug of theirs)... and 7.5.0-rc5 works fine
<infinisil> Hm I see
<adisbladis> infinisil: Related https://github.com/NixOS/nixops/pull/1326
<viric> yet master and release-20.03 have 7.4.4. Is it good to have 7.5.0-rc5 on master?
<{^_^}> nixops#1326 (by adisbladis, 3 days ago, open): tests: Add functional tests using NixOS in Podman (Docker)
<viric> I wonder if "-rc5" makes it unacceptable
<MichaelRaskin> Well, if the latest release has a bug making it unusable, and the RC is generally stable, I would say that would be acceptable but with a comment linking the upstream severe bug in the release
<adisbladis> ^ This
<adisbladis> Generally stick to stable releases & patch if need be
<adisbladis> Sometimes applying a patch is too hard, then I'd consider an RC fine
<adisbladis> Obviously usable software is better than unusable software, no matter it's release cycle ;)
<viric> ok
<viric> In 7.5.0 they reworked all and noone wrote a patch I think
<viric> I wonder if Tribler has ever been stable
<joepie91> I don't think it's meant to ever be stable, exactly :P
<joepie91> it's explicitly a research project
<joepie91> pioneered a lot of features in modern bittorrent, at the cost of reliability being not great at times
<viric> Do you think anything developed around tribler made its way to broad bittorrent?
<aanderse> so again i have to ask... does anyone actually use lutris on nixos? every single game i've tried doesn't work :\
<ajs124> aanderse: I always check who has commits in the package, in those cases.
<aanderse> ajs124: well i know its a relatively new package and there have been a number of issues with it
<aanderse> i'm just trying to find out if it actually has ever worked for anyone :\
<joepie91> viric: yes, AFAIK like half of the modern bittorrent features (streaming torrents, swarm optimization mechanisms, fair piece trading mechanisms, etc.) comes from tribler originally
<joepie91> viric: also, if you're interested in unusual torrent clients, also consider webtorrent desktop
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<ajs124> aanderse: why would it have been merged, if it didn't?
<ajs124> On the other hand, my only memory related to that package is that it init'd sndio in an ancient version, while I had a PR for the at the time current version open for weeks/moths
<joepie91> aanderse: I've also had nothing but issues with Lutris, though at least the GOG integration was recently fixed I think
<ornxka> aanderse: i use an arch container for video games on nixos
<ornxka> i could probably wrestle with buildFHSUserEnv or something but honestly its just easier this way
<aanderse> ornxka: steam works perfectly
<ornxka> a lot of proprietary programs have hardcoded paths and stuff
<ornxka> really?
<ornxka> im surprised
<aanderse> oh yeah, it is great
<aanderse> i love steam gaming on nixos
<aanderse> such a fantastic pain free experience, even with windows gaming
<aanderse> i have some windows games i bought on GOG and i have got them working with wine before, but i never got into making prefixes for apps
<aanderse> so that bites me in the backside because eventually they stop working or whatever
<ornxka> ahh yeah
<aanderse> lutris seemed like a nice painless way to manage wine prefixes on top of merging all my games into 1 library
<ornxka> i started using a new prefix for every game
<aanderse> yes, i want to do that... except i want something to do it for me :D
<ornxka> :P
<aanderse> i have a kodi plugin for steam which is awesome. i thought if lutris worked out i could rewrite the plugin to use lutris api instead...
<ornxka> i use lutris on arch and it works pretty okay, im not sure why it wouldnt work on nixos
<aanderse> ok, well i guess i'll give up on lutris for now and revisit in 6 months
<ornxka> you could also maybe just use steam + proton for it although ive never tried it and im not sure how much work that would entail
<ornxka> but i know you can add games to steam and that steam uses a prefix per game
<aanderse> will steam proton run the installer and everything?
<ornxka> ah, i think it is less batteries-included than that
<ornxka> and that you would probably have to run it yourself in the prefix, and then update it to point to the installed program
<srk> ornxka: you just enable proton in settings, steam will dl it and works out of box
<ornxka> i mean for third-party games you didnt buy through steam
<srk> right
<srk> can steam-run proton? :D
<srk> guess not, but .. steam-run-proton
<srk> eyJhb: yup
<srk> that submodules..
<srk> eyJhb: I was looking at dxvk the other day.. like wow
<srk> impressive :D
<aanderse> i suppose lutris has some reasonable recipes i can just follow ... manually :\
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<cole-h> Good morning, party people!
<cole-h> (Or afternoon, or evening, or night, depending on where you currently are)
<ornxka> it is morning
<eyJhb> It is 7PM :|
<srk> 5PM here, time to call it a day
<ornxka> only one of us can be right
<srk> > builtins.currentTime
<{^_^}> 1588345581
<eyJhb> srk: Same, I just suck and saw 17:06, and thought 7.
<eyJhb> Should stop trying to use AM/PM, makes no sense to me anyways
<srk> hehe :D
<ldlework> hi cole-h
<eyJhb> Also, cole-h tried ergodox?
<eyJhb> Related to your new keyboard msg
<cole-h> I've thought about it, but I cannot afford to drop ~300 on a new keyboard. 200 is my max, really.
<eyJhb> cole-h: what currency are we in?
<eyJhb> > DKK 300
<{^_^}> "1039503.000000 VND"
<cole-h> eyJhb: Sorry, USD$300
<cole-h> (It's actually only $270, but still too much)
<eyJhb> True it is much, and not trash talking your budget but a keyboard will hold for 10+ years pretty much. Just important to note
<eyJhb> I think my ez is 5 years now :p
<evelyn> ebay for used keyboards is sometimes bountiful..
<evelyn> managed to get a used happy hacking keyboard pro 2 for about $70 and it was basically new
<evelyn> and they even had an extra set of keycaps
<evelyn> (the listing ended at 4am which may be part of why I won it for that)
<evelyn> especially compared to the ridiculous cost of those keyboards brand new
<evelyn> although.. they are top-notch
<evelyn> the other ones I really like are these: http://typematrix.com
<evelyn> they are often on ebay for about $30 and usually not manky as they get bought by companies and then thrown in some cupboard somewhere
<evelyn> not mechanical but they have weird keyboard layouts wired in
<evelyn> like bépo and colemak
<evelyn> I have at least eight of them now
<__monty__> Why so many?
<__monty__> Can you flash the firmware?
<evelyn> I have 4 compputers running at the moment
<__monty__> None of them headless?
<evelyn> they are much better than crappy ones that come with them
<evelyn> I don't know if you can flash firmware, I've never needed to as they're sane as they come
<evelyn> (is flashable firmware an absolute requirement for most people? it's not for me)
<__monty__> It's 100% of the fun of custom keyboards for me.
<__monty__> Experimenting with all sorts of things like space cadet.
<evelyn> hmm I've always wanted an APL keyboard
<__monty__> Multiple layers is another nicety.
<eyJhb> I use multiple layers all the time
<eyJhb> Even trying to do it on my normal x230 keyboard (does not work)
<MichaelRaskin> Well, you can get a bit of it with ISO Level3 Shift
<ar> cole-h: why not participate in Universal Greeting Time, in which it's always appropriate to say Good Morning?
<cole-h> ar: SGTM :)
<eyJhb> Anyone besides me that updates Nix when they don't want to do any more work? Just watching the channel update, and rebuild?
<joepie91> eyJhb: no, I start hopeless discussions on IRC that can't possibly end up being productive, instead
<srk> :))
<srk> eyJhb: I do git pull and gc, then the next day is guaranteed to be work free
<eyJhb> I don't want to do that after I switched to dvorak joepie91 :p - gc? Garbage collect?
<srk> yup
<joepie91> eyJhb: dunno, seems like the perfect dvorak training to me :D
<eyJhb> That's true, I should really train in typing faster on Dvorak...
<eyJhb> But it has gotten a lot faster since I started!
<infinisil> Nice
<eyJhb> Update done, maybe I should fix my conf to match 20.03 so it doesn't yell at me when I rebuild
<ajs124> "452-4.2.2 The email account that you tried to reach is over quota. Please direct the recipient to https://support.google.com/mail/?p=OverQuotaTemp"
<ajs124> Thank you google, I'll send them a Fax, because I totally have any contact information except their E-Mail address.
<eyJhb> ajs124: 10/10 :p
<joepie91> lol
<ldlework> little mandolin this morning
<MichaelRaskin> Wow, they managed to reach the quote
<MichaelRaskin> quota
<ldlework> oh soundcloud wont take it because it's copyrighted
<cole-h> ldlework: You have a nice voice
<cole-h> :P
<ldlework> haha
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<ashkitten> when openzfs 2.0 drops i wanna get at least a 500gig nvme drive and use that as my l2arc so i never have to think about how my pool is actually on spinning rust
<etu> 2.0? Is it any plans for that? They are at 0.8.x afaik
<ashkitten> that's gonna be the next release
<etu> oh wow
<etu> I thougt that a "big release" would be 1.0 :)
<ashkitten> apparently not
<ashkitten> we're doing microsoft math here B)
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<ornxka> eagerly awaiting the future of non-monotonic software versioning numbers
<etu> A project I followed for a bit was very good at making many releases and horrible at versioning
<ornxka> i wont tell you my secrets even if you are a maintainer
<etu> They did X.Y.0 -> X.Y.9, then they realized that they needed more numbers. So they did X.Y.90 -> X.Y.99 and ran out of numbers again so they actually never changed the nines in the number...
<ornxka> lol
<etu> They just appeneded a zero and incremented it to 9 and added a zero again.
<ornxka> ah yes asymptotic versioning
<sphalerite> doesn't TeX's versioning converge towards pi?
<ornxka> yes
<ornxka> and metafont's towards e i think
<colemickens> cole-h: do PR CI jobs execute under the context of the submitter?
<sphalerite> ashkitten: why, will 2.0 have persistent l2arc?
<colemickens> if so, a maintainer could modify your PR to exfilitrate your credentials that your GH user has access to that they don't. Maybe?
<ashkitten> sphalerite: correct
<sphalerite> oooh
<sphalerite> so I can have all the terabytes AND all the fasts!
<ashkitten> yesss
<ornxka> will zfs 2.0 have more terabytes than previous versions
<ashkitten> ...sorta? it'll include zstd compression, in theory
<evelyn> the openzfs wiki recommend SLC drives for cache devices but I can't for the life find these drives for sane money
<ornxka> i see
<ashkitten> evelyn: that's just to make the drive last longer, i think
<ashkitten> since a cache device will be rewritten often
<adisbladis> I've been considering "version numbers" for software that's auto released by CI
<adisbladis> What's a good scheme for those?
<srk> semver or patch level
<adisbladis> It's not really good enough I think
<adisbladis> For some context it's for this project https://github.com/nix-community/poetry2nix/blob/master/default.nix#L10
<ashkitten> it'd be cool to have a ci that automatically detects breaking api changes and updates the version based on that info
<srk> yeah, exactly what I was going to add
<cole-h> colemickens: Interesting. Just seems weird that they changed the wording only recently...
<adisbladis> Oh!
<adisbladis> ashkitten: That's a good first (real) foray into rust for me :>
<cole-h> colemickens: And it also only says the "secrets" stuff after it was created -- in the "drafting a description" phase, it only says "Allow maintainers to edit"
<adisbladis> Too bad Nix is not even optionally typed :/
<adisbladis> You can only really detect breaking function signatures, not their types
<ashkitten> wasn't someone working on a type system for nix?
<MichaelRaskin> adisbladis: well, some types can be inferenced
<ashkitten> i think it was joepie91 that was working on the thing i saw? or maybe pie_[bnc]
<ashkitten> or my memory is completely bust
<srk> hnix has a PoC
* srk doesn't quite understand that part yet
<tazjin> adisbladis: yants now lives at https://git.tazj.in/about/nix/yants
<pie_[bnc]> hm?
<pie_[bnc]> lol me working on a type system for nix
<pie_[bnc]> there was some work on a gradually typed type system a while back but that ended up sort of vaporware, if you google for it
<pie_[bnc]> tazjin implemented something that uses runtime type checking
<pie_[bnc]> but i dont remember if that was just for the module system (probably not, because it already has a type system)
<joepie91> ashkitten: type system for Nix was def. not me :P
<joepie91> I did experiment a bit with something for JS
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<ornxka> i recently found the gradually typed nix type system work recently
<ornxka> its a shame it was never completed
<infinisil> I'm not sure how useful it would've been in practice
<ornxka> i was also thinking some nix stuff is hard to type
<ornxka> like ive just gotten to the overrides part of the nix pills
<drakonis> it would've been more useful for elaborate things
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<eyJhb> Any ideas what the reason for a computer to freeze up when making a 10GB file using dd with if /dev/zero to /tmp ? - The /tmp is just part of / (no seperate partition) using EXT4. I have a 250 GB Samsung Pro SSD 850 I think, 16 GB ram, and a 3520m CPU. The Ram or CPU barely gets used. Thinking it might be because it is on the same partition, but even then it shouldn't
<eyJhb> I cannot use the mouse + keyboard, audio does not work etc. but randomly comes again at times so I can cancel the process
<sphalerite> eyJhb: does the journal say anything?
<eyJhb> Don't think so, let me desroy my PC real quick
<eyJhb> Nope journalctl -r does not show anything of interest sphalerite :/
<emily> evelyn: re typematrix: I'm scared:
* emily uploaded an image: Screenshot from 2020-05-01 21-59-48.png (36KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/YzwulZEBQzXyaRyysHjbtltp >
<emily> I have enough skin already. where are they even getting it from?
<cole-h> Never say no to free skin!
<danderson> it's just free real estate^Wskin
<danderson> "you won't BELIEVE the latest hollywood health craze!"
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<evelyn> yeah and like real skin you can wash it
<danderson> and use it again and again, so it's green too
<joepie91> fully organic also
<eyJhb> What.. The.. Heaven?
<colemickens> Dermatologists hate them.
<eyJhb> To use DO that is short for docker, or just to use DOCKER, that is the question
<samueldr> Digital Ocean being in the hosting space could get confusing depending
<samueldr> when in doubt, use the full name
<eyJhb> Yeah, plus I use them as a provider, where I use DO for them. So DOCKER seems like the best way
<cole-h> Anybody who's interested in fantasy books, my favorite author is giving away the first book of my favorite series on May 4th: https://www.tor.com/2020/05/01/sign-up-now-for-a-free-ebook-of-the-way-of-kings-by-brandon-sanderson/
<cole-h> (ebook, that is)
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<pie_[bnc]> https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/JpaMmRVTMBUyDdyzvsvvyhLY found this in my tabs. ima firin ma lazor
<adisbladis> pie_[bnc]: It hurt itself in it's confusion
<pie_[bnc]> heh
<evelyn> circular dependencies ? 😬
<adisbladis> evelyn: Looks like self references
<adisbladis> Nix doesn't support circular deps