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<FireFly>
there's kind of a technical reason for it.. whois would optionally take a server as second argument, defaulting to asking the server you're connected directly to. But your server can't know the idle time of a user connected to another server in the network, of course (since not necessarily all actions are sent to all servers)
<__monty__>
For me the server's the first argument.
<FireFly>
so there's the difference between a local and remote whois, and only the latter gets you idle time
<FireFly>
oh, hm
<FireFly>
that's probably right
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<__monty__>
So it kinda means "nick's server?"
* gchristensen
is skeptical it is anything more than a hack
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<__monty__>
I'd be surprised if it wasn't a kludge.
<FireFly>
oh, specifying a nick in place of the server is probably a hack/specialcase
<__monty__>
I like the "Close your eyes and say it like you *mean* it," vibe though : )
* infinisil
also looked at the rfc but couldn't figure out why double nick would work
<gchristensen>
must not be in the spec
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<qyliss>
lots of IRC is not in the spec :)
<ldlework>
gchristensen: i'm fixing up my website, so that i can try to write up my introduction to Go, using embedded board diagrams, etc
<gchristensen>
oh nice
<joepie91>
the IRC spec isn't actually a spec!
<joepie91>
it
<joepie91>
oops
<joepie91>
it's more a survey of commonly-implemented features at the time
<MichaelRaskin>
You say it as if it's not how a typical spec arises…
<joepie91>
because the implementations predate any attempt at a spec :P
<joepie91>
MichaelRaskin: it's not!
<joepie91>
the typical spec process tends to involve experimental implementations, then formalizing it into a spec, and then implementations over time changing to meet the now-existent spec
<joepie91>
that last step didn't happen for IRC stuff
<joepie91>
which is why there's still so much variability :P
<FireFly>
irc is a bit of a mess
<MichaelRaskin>
Experimental implementation is a very late stage spec process
<MichaelRaskin>
Anything real first gets implementations, then some kind of interoperability pressure, then spec.
<MichaelRaskin>
Then _maybe_ implementations start conforming
<MichaelRaskin>
By your criterion, HTTPS has no spec
<MichaelRaskin>
Or at least the spec process will never reach the last step
<MichaelRaskin>
(OK, not never, not before Google is broken up)
<joepie91>
HTTPS isn't even really a protocol, it's just a way to say "HTTP over TLS", so it indeed has no spec
<__monty__>
So, when am I gonna get me that there quic internet?
<MichaelRaskin>
It is a different subset of TLS than what POP3 over TLS considers TLS, though
<MichaelRaskin>
(And then, Chromium violates the requirements of that subset of TLS)
<drakonis_>
gchristensen: i see it doesnt look too different from the draft
<srk>
lol
<srk>
someone will complain about zfs for sure
<drakonis_>
its rising to the top of lobsters
<drakonis_>
hn too
<drakonis_>
zero comments tho
<drakonis_>
lol
<gchristensen>
tazjin: and a bad one too lol
<gchristensen>
tazjin: oh well, fail fast
<tazjin>
:D
<hexa->
gchristensen++
<{^_^}>
gchristensen's karma got increased to 268
<__monty__>
gchristensen: In the SSH key example your paths aren't consistent. Missing /etc/?
<tazjin>
what did you expect :p
<gchristensen>
__monty__: oops, yep, but too late. not deploying now :P
<__monty__>
Heh, humblebragging sh -> dash : )
<gchristensen>
oh did I put that in there? :P
<gchristensen>
haha I did
<eyJhb>
Hmm, reducing the number of stat calls to files from 51 to 16 seems pretty good!
<eyJhb>
And number of sorts
<__monty__>
And promoting NixOS for world domination on the sly. "I only want the partitioning scheme to catch on." "But no other distro supports the setup?" "Orly?"
<gchristensen>
"oh noes"
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<joepie91>
"well that's unfortunate.:
<joepie91>
"*
<srk>
:(((
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<srk>
pkgs.ubuntu time again
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<srk>
or was it a profile ..
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<srk>
hm, now I want my ublock CSS fixes managed with Nix so I can share them between machines. spent few minutes to uncluter certain sites like SO / reddit
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<gchristensen>
welp, got my next blog post
<gchristensen>
"Chefs idempotent nature means that any manual drift is automatically repaired"
<__monty__>
Oh, snap. Is uBlock Origin back to blocking ublock.org?
<__monty__>
I thought the relationship was amicable.
<pie_[bnc]>
gchristensen: now if only KDE actually had documented configuration methods
* pie_[bnc]
puts on doomguy suit and starts reverse engineering kde?
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<eyJhb>
Mission done, reducing a recursive function to 16, instead of 20000 calls.
<eyJhb>
Lets see if they will accept it upstream in Docker
<drakonis>
there's comments now gchristensen
<drakonis>
__monty__, its really not amicable, they've been squatting on the domain and stealing users for years now
<srk>
'Well, going by the functional programming crowd's take on immutability, you just have to buy a new laptop each time.' <3 <3
<__monty__>
drakonis: Yeah but I've seen the original author saying it's not a terrible project, they do spend some effort keeping up with things and that it was the only way to get in on macOS back then.
<drakonis>
and ublock after he left is just ublock but without any development
<__monty__>
So the answer I was after is "Yes." The relationship did deteriorate again.
<drakonis>
it deteriorated almost instantly
<__monty__>
I think it was around the time of the donation stuff I read a statement from gorhill that it wasn't that bad.
<ashkitten>
it always seemed to me like he handed the project over and was going to continue contributing to ublock, but the new owner had different motivations which seem to include making money off of it
<drakonis>
chris aljoudi hmm
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<drakonis>
the man wrote a ios adblocker
<drakonis>
ironic really
<drakonis>
costs 2 bucks on the store
<joepie91>
from what I've read of gorhill (in a positive sense), this is possibly the clearest-cut case I've seen of "yeah, this guy ain't the asshole in this conflict"
<joepie91>
gorhill does quite a bit more than just developing an adblocker..
<joepie91>
like, insofar the ad-blocking and/or anti-ad community has a lobbyist, it's gorhill :P
<pie_[bnc]>
"npm is joining github" they tried to make their own thing, didnt work, bouught npm instead?:P
<MichaelRaskin>
«embrace»
<__monty__>
joepie91: If that's what you think my opinion is either I'm writing something wrong or you're reading something wrong.
<__monty__>
There should be a marvel franchise about gorhill.
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<joepie91>
pie_[bnc]: I suspect it was more a matter of "npm is bleeding money and on the verge of bankrupcy due to years of mismanagement, so github could pick it up cheap and gain control over yet another chunk of the open-source ecosystem"
<joepie91>
__monty__: wasn't responding to you specifically, more commenting on the conflict in general
<aleph->
Reminds me, joepie91 what's a decent book on js/node?
<aleph->
Find myself needing to write some services this quarter in it.
<joepie91>
aleph-: none, books are the wrong medium for learning programming
<aleph->
Fair enough
<joepie91>
aleph-: it's a very diverse field, and learning how to do it well is going to be a non-linear process, so a non-linear medium (like the web) is a much better fit
<aleph->
Yeah make a fair point there
<__monty__>
I don't think anyone ever can read anything about it and think gorhill's the bad guy though. And I expected things to sour tbh. I was pretty pissed when I found out the ublock I just installed wasn't the real ublock way back when. So I was surprised by how cool gorhill was about it.
<joepie91>
aleph-: the approach I generally recommend is "decide on a project, reduce it down to its simplest possible version, start building that from 0, and gradually add pieces and tools as you find yourself needing them, learning about each bit as you go along"
<__monty__>
joepie91: You should read APUE : )
<joepie91>
ie. project-directed learning
<pie_[bnc]>
oh? <joepie91> aleph-: none, books are the wrong medium for learning programming
<pie_[bnc]>
oh
<aleph->
Heh fair enough. That's effectively what I'm doing rn
<aleph->
That'll do. Just need a quick guide on syntax and features mainly. Thanks joepie91
<__monty__>
pie_[bnc]: Advanced Programming in the Unix Environment, it's a great book about POSIX basically. It's a silly counterpoint to books being the wrong medium : )
<pie_[bnc]>
aha
<joepie91>
aleph-: I don't have specific recommendations for syntax and feature guides, but I *can* make a general recommendation on where to focus: think about your code in terms of objects, functions, values and modules; ignore the existence of "classes" (and associated concepts like constructor functions and prototypes) entirely
<aleph->
Nod
<joepie91>
aleph-: in a sense, most of your code should consist of functions that transform objects/values into other objects/values, the simplest way to create an object is an object literal, the simplest way to *consistently* create a particularly-shaped object is a function that *returns* an object literal
<aleph->
Nod, makes sense.
<joepie91>
that plus arrays and scalar types (string, number, boolean, null, undefined) and maybe maps/sets pretty much allows you to express whatever
<joepie91>
aleph-: also, if you get stuck on anything, I'd recommend hopping into #Node.js with a question
<joepie91>
(even if it's about JS the language, not specifically Node)
<aleph->
Ya ya
<aleph->
It shouldn't be too hard. Since I thankfully have a prod service at work I can crib for this
<aleph->
Heh the event loop I am very familiar with the concept of
<aleph->
But thanks
<joepie91>
right, okay :)
<joepie91>
just mentioning it since "why does this code execute in the wrong order?!" is a really common issue people have when starting out with JS
<aleph->
Heh, aye
<joepie91>
aleph-: anyway, any other topics/concepts/etc. in particular that you are looking for documentation about?
<aleph->
Nah this should do me, danke
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<gchristensen>
nice, 18,000 views in 4h
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<cole-h>
Oh hey, you finally got that article written gchristensen :)
<gchristensen>
:P
<gchristensen>
cole-h: btw, are you going to post that comment today?
<cole-h>
Yeah, still thinking about wording and message
<cole-h>
In the end, I have no real say over what happens with it :P
<gchristensen>
you should post it :) its fine
<gchristensen>
"But, more than anything this is an ad for nixOS." lol fair enough
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<cole-h>
Are ZFS snapshots (or whatever they're called) deduplicating? I currently use borg backup for that
<gchristensen>
write foo, snapshot, write bar, snapshot -> the second one will share the "foo" on disk with the first snapshot
<cole-h>
Can ZFS snapshots be sent to other disk formats (e.g. ext4 or NTFS (eugh))? Or am I going to have to buy another external for those backups
<cole-h>
Or does it rely on ZFS
<gchristensen>
ZFS snapshots can be sent, and you can send the difference between snapshot A and snapshot B (incremental send), and when you send them, they are just streams of bytes, so these send's could be stored on ext4 or NTFS, but you wouldn't be able to do anything wit them except `receive` them -- where it gets written back to ZFS again
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<cole-h>
OK, got it. Next question: can these snapshots be mounted from the external disk(s) without needing more space?
<cole-h>
OK, comment is up. Time to check email every 5 minutes in anticipation of a response
<srk>
,meta
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<cole-h>
MichaelRaskin: The other day, you said it is possible to install NixOS while keeping the old home... Do you have any examples or an overview on how this might be done?
<tilpner>
cole-h: Yes, that should be no problem. There is no "unpacking" step to accessing snapshots
<samueldr>
read the instructions carefully, cole-h, in full twice, before attempting
<cole-h>
samueldr: Yeah, I was mainly curious about how it would be done. I probably want to start from scratch anyways :P
<tilpner>
cole-h: And I like the new response much better, thanks for taking the time to revise it
<cole-h>
Thanks for the advice. I need to learn how to do these kinds of "interventions" without sounding like a total jerk, which isn't always easy...
<cole-h>
tilpner++
<MichaelRaskin>
cole-h: wait, you want to tell me /home is not a separate partition in your system?
<{^_^}>
tilpner's karma got increased to 80
<cole-h>
MichaelRaskin: :x
<drakonis>
cole-h, dont forget to fix permissions
<drakonis>
it gets janky
<cole-h>
I setup this Arch install ~2 years ago, before I was really "smart" about Linux, so I only have 2 partitions: / and /boot
<cole-h>
2018-09-29 12:16 is my first pacman.log line
<samueldr>
I actually stopped separating / and /Users on my systems with NixOS, as the store is either too constrained, or my home is
* tilpner
has recommended new users against separating /home multiple times
<MichaelRaskin>
LVM2
<tilpner>
(Assuming no LVM, zfs)
<samueldr>
I don't need it to be on another partition, as I don't need to just recreate the filesystem for no reason :)
<samueldr>
and I don't intend to distro hop!
<samueldr>
but yeah, those volumey solutions are ways this can be done
<drakonis>
distro hopping after nix is a tough proposition
<MichaelRaskin>
Not that hard.
<cole-h>
My first order of business after the switch to NixOS will be to make `doas` a first-class `sudo` replacement
<samueldr>
cole-h: alias doas=sudo
<samueldr>
done!
<MichaelRaskin>
You install Nix, then stop caring about that layer that brings you drivers
<cole-h>
Wrong :P
<drakonis>
regarding a split / and /boot
<samueldr>
cole-h: I was obciously obliviously fascetious
<cole-h>
Hehe, I know
<MichaelRaskin>
Kernel version is one thing that normal distributions let you roll back at boot time!
<drakonis>
you can roll it into a single partition and store all your boot images on /boot
<samueldr>
and /boot I have /boot a "way too big" ESP for fun and experimentation
<samueldr>
Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
<samueldr>
/dev/sdb1 2.0G 674M 1.4G 33% /boot
<drakonis>
let /boot/efi keep only your efi files
<drakonis>
hoho that's a biggun
<samueldr>
I'm using clever's thing that makes a bootable installer image on the EFI
<MichaelRaskin>
I also have a large /boot
<MichaelRaskin>
But I gave up and have huge initramfs images
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<gchristensen>
drakonis1: I left because I'm not having a very good day, and I found the by-string-name discussion (and then joke about naturals) very upsetting
<drakonis1>
grumble-see
<drakonis1>
i see i see
<gchristensen>
and so easier to just disengage
<joepie91>
gchristensen: I demand slices
<drakonis1>
do you want to blow some steam on some entertainment?
<joepie91>
gchristensen: seriously though, that looks great :D
<drakonis1>
do you have recipes?
<gchristensen>
thanks, joepie91 :) come on by any time, I'll give you some :P
<gchristensen>
drakonis1: what kind of entertainment do you have in mind? I'm sad-cooking some beans and rice, but maybe after :)
<joepie91>
gchristensen: haha, thanks for the offer, but you're in the US, aren't you? :P
<cole-h>
gchristensen: Host NixCon at your place so we have an excuse to stop by :P
<gchristensen>
joepie91: yep lol
<drakonis1>
b-movies or games
<joepie91>
gchristensen: yeah, probably not gonna happen then :(
<gchristensen>
drakonis1: anything in particular you'd like a recipe for?
<drakonis1>
it has better resolution support though
<srk>
mmm, does it have clan arena and players? :)
<__monty__>
gchristensen: Re seeding a torrent from the command line. rtorrent seems like th closest thing maybe? Not sure why you need it to be daemon-less though. nn, peeps
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<drakonis1>
srk: i guess?
<joepie91>
gchristensen: I missed the original question, but inferring from monty's response: you can use aria2c to seed a torrent without a persistent daemon
<joepie91>
may need to fiddle with the flags a bit to select the right "keep seeding for X time/conditions" parameters, but AFAIK if you point it at a .torrent for which you already have the data, it'll just jump into seed-only modew
<joepie91>
mode*
<drakonis1>
srk: it probably doesnt
<drakonis1>
would like to find people to play with tho
<pie_[bnc]>
how does python compiler so fast? Im used to compilers taking absolute ages
<pie_[bnc]>
s/compiler/compile
<drakonis1>
bytecode?
<drakonis1>
oh
<drakonis1>
no idea
<drakonis1>
its a interpreter
<pie_[bnc]>
*shrug* xD
<samueldr>
joepie91: from looking at its manpage earlier, it seems you have to "trick" it with a complete torrent, using its verification feature
<samueldr>
(aria2c)
<joepie91>
samueldr: yep, same way as most other torrent clients
<pie_[bnc]>
it should take a long time to compile. how else are people supposed to think its a serious language?
<joepie91>
(I actually really like the NixOS Mobile logo)
<ashkitten>
unfortunately my ubuntu touch logo doesn't exactly match the mobile nixos logo because that uses a bunch of tweaks to the font after converting it to paths
<joepie91>
err, Mobile NixOS*
<ashkitten>
i tried to get it as close as possible, though
<joepie91>
ashkitten: I recognized it fairly quickly despite only having seen the Mobile NixOS logo once or twice, so the result clearly worke dwell :P
<joepie91>
worked well*
<ashkitten>
yeah but i'm nitpicky
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<gchristensen>
cool, got 36k views on that blog post
<samueldr>
ashkitten: it hurts
<samueldr>
joepie91: thanks
<ashkitten>
samueldr: that means it's working
<samueldr>
yep, and it's nice to know
<aanderse>
gchristensen: it's good blog post. I'm probably building a new machine soon and tempted to try your described technique out :-)