<joepie91>
I see it with almost any non-technical query
<joepie91>
bunch of shitty "blogs" with all the same superficial information that never explains the "why" or any details
<joepie91>
and then somewhere on page deity-knows-how-many, is the random site someone set up on a free webhost 10 years ago that everyone seems to have cribbed from
<joepie91>
and that contains the actual details
<MichaelRaskin>
There are quite a few queries where DDG yields random stuff where ~ 1/10 has any relation to the query, I decide to check what Google gives… and of course Google returns a selection of link of uniform quality… uniform quality which is probably below zero
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<clever>
gchristensen: the GC i had ran, is still going, lol
<gchristensen>
nice
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<colemickens>
I wasn't interested in FIDO2 ssh support until I saw today that you can apparently have the FIDO2 hardware token be totally portable without needing the "private key" file. Anyone here using that?
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<clever>
still GC'ing lol
<clever>
12175 store paths deleted, 1175.75 MiB freed
<clever>
dear god, that was over 2 hours for 1gig, lol
<cole-h>
I was hoping for something epic like 200GiB or something
<cole-h>
:(
<ornxka>
what is your record for nix-store --gc #nixos-chat
<ornxka>
i think i got 30GB once
<cole-h>
I got 80GiB the other day
<ornxka>
whoa nice
<drakonis>
i've seen people on telegram wave 473GB once
<ornxka>
how does that even happen
<cole-h>
Build lots of stuff from source and don't clean for a few weeks
<clever>
oh, the iohk hydra has done pretty massive GC's, since it has 1tb of disk and relatively little rooted
<infinisil>
I'll never understand what's all the hype around new shooter games
<infinisil>
Now Valorant is the new thing apparently
<infinisil>
And to me, it looks just like another generic shooter, yet everybody is going crazy about it
<clever>
30173 store paths deleted, 109419.41 MiB freed
<clever>
[root@system76:~]#
<infinisil>
Admittedly I haven't really looked into it for more than a minute, but it didn't catch my eye at all
<clever>
from my laptop
<drakonis>
valorant is csgo meets overwatch i suppose
<drakonis>
really though, dont do that to your cats
<drakonis>
a lean cat is always best
<clever>
i'm surprised it can even move that fast
<drakonis>
cats are really incredible
<drakonis>
my cousin has a cat that learned how to open doors
<drakonis>
and its a fat cat
<clever>
heh
<drakonis>
its a door without a knob and the cat still figured how
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<cole-h>
infinisil: It's CS:GOverwatch
<cole-h>
And don't forget the malware they're calling anticheat
<drakonis>
riot isnt known for having sane programming practices
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<drakonis>
and they got the people behind the ESEA anti cheat, known for having a bitcoin miner lol
<infinisil>
Hm I see, I guess that makes it a bit different
<infinisil>
I did play overwatch for a while, and I liked it initially, but over time I didn't enjoy it anymore
<cole-h>
Agreed.
<infinisil>
And deleting my windows partition came around the same time, so there it went :P
<drakonis>
overwatch isnt without its flaws
<drakonis>
it gets really stale because it revolves around dropping ultimates
<ldlework>
how can we get infinisil into go
<infinisil>
I think for me what ruined it was that casual play was really unbalanced and therefore not fun (I think only close games are fun). And competitive play is way too serious, with people getting toxic really fast, which again doesn't make it fun
<cole-h>
That's why I play CSGO with a friend and don't care at all
<drakonis>
csgo...
<drakonis>
its fine
<infinisil>
ldlework: Hehe, can you perhaps recommend a video showcasing the game a bit?
<drakonis>
infinisil: watch the alphago matches
<infinisil>
The only shooter game I like is Splatoon :P
<drakonis>
a good choice
<infinisil>
Recently I've been playing a lot of Binding Of Isaac though, really enjoy that game
<drakonis>
i have a bit of a hard time getting into it due to the visual aesthetics
<drakonis>
and speaking as someone who enjoys a good bloody mess sometimes
<drakonis>
it manages to be too much
<infinisil>
Can understand, though I haven't thought much about the graphics other than "Damn, this game really doesn't hold back with nasty stuff!"
<infinisil>
And the story is also rather cruel
<drakonis>
yeah
<ldlework>
infinisil: That's kind of the catch-22 with Go. Until you start to get into it, the board is meaningless and essentially matrix code.
<ldlework>
But that's what's so cool about it. Each thing you learn about Go, is like a small vision, bringing to meaning to the same thing you've been looking at the whole time.
<drakonis>
i certainly wish it had a sprite pack that gave it zelda visuals
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<infinisil>
ldlework: Ah yeah I saw that
<ldlework>
infinisil: drak, gc, cole, and manver u all play
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<ldlework>
(peer pressure, one of us, one of us)
<ldlework>
infinisil: and no one is super far ahead yet or anything
<drakonis>
we're all terrible so far
<drakonis>
i almost beat ldlework once
<drakonis>
then i got beat
<infinisil>
ldlework: I'll maybe check it out soon, but no guarantees, I'm a very spontaneous and occasional gamer
<ldlework>
don't do it for me :)
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<infinisil>
The pool of things I can do in my free time (other than coding one of the thousand things on my wishlist) is rather slim, so I wouldn't mind finding other things I enjoy :)
<ldlework>
infinisil: Go will never dry up.
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<aleph->
ldlework: Totally thought we were talking the language. :p
<ldlework>
god no
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<cole-h>
colemickens: nixpkgs-wayland builds are failing because of a hash mismatch with i3status-rust
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<ashkitten>
sigh.. might switch back to x11 because wayland just isn't ready yet
<ashkitten>
maybe once they figure out accessibility crap and allowing applications to negotiate for global keybinds
<ashkitten>
and once rofi and dunst work on wayland properly
<ashkitten>
there's technically replacements for those but they don't work as well as i'd like
<cole-h>
What doesn't work well about rofi? I use it as my emoji menu and it works fine for that
<ashkitten>
it only opens on the last monitor an xwayland window was hovered over
<cole-h>
I don't see that behavior. My bind uses `-normal-window` -- can you try that?
<ashkitten>
maybe i'll try.. but dunst is still an issue
<cole-h>
I think that's the notification thing, right? I use mako and fine it works just fine for my needs.
<cole-h>
Either way, though, accessibility is a valid complaint, and one I don't have a band-aid fix for :P
<ashkitten>
mako opens notifications on the current monitor but doesn't follow focus while the notifications are visible
<ashkitten>
also doesn't have an option to shrink itself to fit the notification
<ashkitten>
you can only set a fixed width
<ashkitten>
and no global keybinds
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<ashkitten>
if apps aren't allowed to listen for keypresses globally then they need to be allowed to register keybinds with the compositor, which doesn't really seem to be a thing rn
<ashkitten>
i can see a future where applications can be given capabilities with user consent, for example to take screenshots, but there doesn't seem to be a compositor with that sort of consent request system built in
<ashkitten>
so far it's just been "build protocols where any program can ask for the same things they could in x11, and immediately receives that permission"
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<sphalerite>
ashkitten: I thought the protocols generally incorporate permissions, but the current _implementations_ are what give permission unconditionally?
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<ashkitten>
but does it even matter what it can do, if nobody's shown anything different yet?
<ashkitten>
that's what i've been saying about pleroma, too. the devs are all like "oh it's a generic activitypub server actually" but nobody has implemented anything else on top of it
<ashkitten>
ftr i'm not just saying that because i don't think it matters to build flexible software
<ashkitten>
i'm saying because i know it affects the mindset of people who work with the software
<viric_>
I'm sorry I have too much disconnections. Damn link...
<ashkitten>
if you say it's flexible but there's only one implementation to show, people will start making assumptions about how it works based on the common implementation
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<ashkitten>
ie, if people always assume they can obtain a permission, does it really matter if you say their assumption is false? then when you finally try and make an implementation that breaks that assumption, you break a whole load of software
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<qyliss>
ashkitten: fwiw we're going to need such a compositor in Spectrum
<MichaelRaskin>
And note that having a notion of permissions on the protocol level does not help much. One could have X protocol where most applications get the answer that they are the only client, and some privilileged ones are wrapped in setgid something to connect to another access-controlled X11 socket and get the real access.
<qyliss>
(i.e. one with permissions)
<MichaelRaskin>
It is the layers of history inside Xorg that made it hard to maintain that lead to people deciding to grenfield Wayland from scratch (then throwing away a lot of good X still had despite the legacy, unfortunately)
<ashkitten>
MichaelRaskin: yeah, you definitely helped sway me on that
<ashkitten>
fwiw x11 is a lot of legacy cruft even ignoring the everything else
<MichaelRaskin>
I mean, I agree when people say Xorg has too many layers of legacy code-wise, or X11 extensions are hard to do cleanly because of layers of assumptions.
<ashkitten>
actually, x11 is a great example of assumptions not being broken and thus being sort of correct - the reason so many applications run like garbage via x11 forwarding is because they make so many separate queries un-cached because they expect that to be zero cost
<ajs124>
Yup. An acquaintance of mine was doing an internship at a cinema camera company and basically everyone just stopped filming.
<ajs124>
Enough that he, an _intern_, was laid off.
<joepie91>
sheesh
<__monty__>
Aren't interns always the first ones to be canned?
<ajs124>
Why, they're (basically) free labor?
<__monty__>
They're the easiest to get rid of.
<__monty__>
And they're a dime a dozen when you need more.
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<MichaelRaskin>
Especially now — if you hope to reopen later, you probably want to keep the backbone of the teams, which is already more labour than can be used right now
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<__monty__>
Is apple gonna adopt ARM cpus for their macs?
<srk>
RISC-V :)
<__monty__>
Are you toying with me?
<srk>
why? :) less royalties to pay for em
<gchristensen>
it'll definitely be RISC
<gchristensen>
but I think it'll be Acorn/Advanced RISC Machine
<__monty__>
I mean, that makes most sense right?
<__monty__>
They've been part of that alliance for ages.
<__monty__>
And it'd unify their platforms.
<gchristensen>
and the vast majority of tehir devices are ARM already
<__monty__>
But are they really bailing on intel? (And not even considering AMD?)
<gchristensen>
they probably want to do what they do for their phones, which is make their own
<__monty__>
Yeah, sure.
<__monty__>
But is ARM catching up with x86 any time soon?
<__monty__>
Like, macbook air? Sure.
<__monty__>
But iMac? : s
<gchristensen>
really?
<MichaelRaskin>
Given how rarely they update anything but iPhone, does it need to catch up with _current_ x86, or 10 years ago?
<gchristensen>
__monty__: have you seen the big ARM boxes?
<__monty__>
gchristensen: I haven't.
<MichaelRaskin>
Especially given that x86 has stalled in many of the parameters where the gap was previously the largest
<__monty__>
All my exposure to arm and compiling is "AAAAAAAH how do I get cross-compilation to work because I'd like to get done before the heat death of the universe!?"
<srk>
lol
<gchristensen>
a single chip with 96 3ghz cores and 384 hardware threads
<__monty__>
Sounds like a beast.
<gchristensen>
this is classic innovator's dillema
* srk
was compiling multi_v7_defconfig kernel on 4 cores imx6q yesterday .. 8 hours, overheated. limited to 3 cores helped
<__monty__>
How does 3GHz RISC compare to 3+GHz CISC though?
<gchristensen>
the cheap end (arm) is eating out the top end (x86)
<gchristensen>
__monty__: "how does 3ghz «architecture where the main feature is you can make the CPU have exactly the instruction you want» vs «one you can't» compare?"
<__monty__>
gchristensen: Well that's not the distinction though.
<tilpner>
__monty__: I'm not sure cross is so important here. Isn't it already expected that you buy the privilege of developing for the Apple ecosystem by buying Apple hardware?
<gchristensen>
__monty__: oh?
<__monty__>
It's RISC multiple cycles to get the same result as a CISC instruction.
<__monty__>
tilpner: That's not what I meant. I'm sure most of these people are doing things like NixOS on RPis or something.
<__monty__>
But that *is* my only exposure.
<gchristensen>
I don't know, but i'm going to assume it doens't matter
<__monty__>
gchristensen: Afaik Power kicked Intel's ass because the simpler architecture allowed for both faster processors and bigger buses to shove data back and forth.
<gchristensen>
(and where is power now ...)
<tilpner>
__monty__: I'm not an expert, but I would be careful about that assumption. It would take more instructions, sure, but why necessarily more cycles?
<tilpner>
(that assumption: It's RISC multiple cycles to get the same result as a CISC instruction)
<tilpner>
(which I parsed as: With a RISC architecture, doing thing X takes more cycles than doing thing X with a CISC architecture)
<__monty__>
Also, consider that they're saying 8 performance cores and 4 energy efficient cores. So not ~100. ~Same # of cores at a lower frequency *and* RISC. That just sounds like a lot to give up.
<tilpner>
(And all this is ignoring the black-box RISC thing Intel uses to execute CISC instructions (?))
<srk>
:))
<srk>
exactly
<__monty__>
tilpner: Isn't that the only reason to go with CISC? Some instructions are just gonna be more efficient. Not across the board maybe but in general a RISC architecture's gonna need as many or more cycles?
<gchristensen>
I don't really believe CISC vs RISC is really worth discussing anymore
<gchristensen>
like not in a "today, now" sense but in a "the lines are so blurred" sense
<tilpner>
No, probably not in our position, at least
<gchristensen>
does that make sense?
<__monty__>
No one's forcing anyone. I'd be reluctant to change my uni classes based view of the matter without numbers to convince me though.
<__monty__>
Would I accept it doesn't make a huge difference? Sure.
<gchristensen>
no I mean I'm not saying stop discussing it, I'm saying it probably isn't the difference it used to be
<tilpner>
You're unlikely to find numbers here
<MichaelRaskin>
I would bet on ARM not being as RISC as it used to be
<__monty__>
But that still leaves us with same or fewer cores at same or (more likely) lower frequency.
<gchristensen>
no way
<gchristensen>
arm chips have so many cores
<gchristensen>
substantially more
<__monty__>
gchristensen: But apple's planning 8 perf cores + 4 energy efficient cores.
<gchristensen>
okay
<__monty__>
At least that's what LTT says.
<gchristensen>
they're probably 8 really nice cores, and 4 really nice low energy cores
<__monty__>
tilpner: I'm not here for numbers, just shooting the breeze with fellow tech enthusiasts and usually people more knowledgeable than myself.
<MichaelRaskin>
Note that this 96-core thing is probably properly compared with 64-core EPYC
<tilpner>
__monty__: I agree with "I have no idea until I get data on this", but that sort-of stops any discussion
<__monty__>
I'm sure they'll be totally sweet compared to other ARM. But is it realistic to think it'll be competitive with current x86 cpus?
<gchristensen>
a big reason they moved from power to x86 in the first place is power efficiency, and I think it is a big part of this move too
<__monty__>
tilpner: Not my intention. Just wanted to make clear that I'm not swayed by the "RISC/CISC what's the difference?" yet.
<__monty__>
Are you sure? I think software compatibility was the main reason.
<__monty__>
MacOS was a pretty obscure target before the switch to intel.
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<__monty__>
Also the chips just weren't very competitive anymore.
<__monty__>
But G5 was so good.
<gchristensen>
yeah they were desperate
<gchristensen>
like, they were shipping towers with water cooling. nobody wants to do that
<srk>
have old xeon with mobo ready in pizza box right behind me, too lazy to do it now, just fixed my armv7 laptop :D
<tilpner>
MichaelRaskin: *I* know what to do, sure. I use bubblewrap for stuff I don't really trust but need to execute. But the other end (family, friends) probably isn't going to bother with that
<tilpner>
(And I know, bwrap is just a compromise. But at the very least it keeps a hijacked dependency from adding a logging sudo alias into my profile)
<adisbladis>
Is there a way to set a path to a custom known_hosts file for openssh?
<srk>
firejailed firefox on nixos is pretty cool and not that annoying as I've thought it would be (except for file selector sometimes)
<tilpner>
adisbladis: In what situation?
<tilpner>
adisbladis: Pass -o UserKnownHostsFile=something to ssh, if you control the arguments
<MichaelRaskin>
tilpner: it looks like Jitsi desktop is Java and not Electron
<adisbladis>
tilpner: Ah, that's what I'm looking for :)
<adisbladis>
Thanks
<tilpner>
MichaelRaskin: I have never used Jitsi Desktop
<tilpner>
adisbladis: Did you see my video from yesterday?
<adisbladis>
tilpner: No, should I have?
<tilpner>
I sent it to you, but you didn't react :c
<adisbladis>
Hm, where did you send it?
<tilpner>
adisbladis: I got the most basic parts working, but it does work: https://tx0.co/xZE
<adisbladis>
tilpner: Nice!
<tilpner>
:)
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<tilpner>
It was slightly unintuitive that the curl in that video is spawned in urxvtd.service
<tilpner>
I need to figure out a good way to spawn application in their own cgroup, ideally directly from the application launcher
<tilpner>
(And ideally counter-measures to prevent escapes to a more privileged cgroup)
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<srk>
sounds a bit like selinux :)
<tilpner>
In the end, I will never catch all egress while still being usable, and that's okay
<eyJhb>
Teachers trying to hide the date of their slides, by making the font white.. And then me trying to find a keyword in the slide, which is on all slides in the white font..
<tilpner>
E.g. data extraction via DNS queries, with a local DNS resolver running in a privileged cgroup
* ldlework
wonders if anyone wants to play Go today.
<__monty__>
I'm interested in a bit if you can't find anyone else.
<ldlework>
:O
<ldlework>
ok
<ldlework>
__monty__: what is your rank?
<eyJhb>
ldlework: play.golang.org ? (so close)
<__monty__>
ldlework: Uhm, is there a rank below 0?
<ldlework>
__monty__: ah i always got the impression you played a bit
<ldlework>
no problem
<LnL>
go is such a fascinating game
<__monty__>
No no, I'm interested in the game.
<LnL>
practically no rules yet so complicated
<ldlework>
LnL a few of us in here have been playing.
<ldlework>
maybe you would like to join us sometime
<LnL>
I can't really play, only done some practice problems
<ldlework>
LnL neither could anyone else!
<ldlework>
If you would an introduction to the game sometime, I wouldn't mind at all.
<ldlework>
like ^
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<LnL>
hmm yeah, gotta start somewhere :)
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<ldlework>
LnL it's actually quite logical. It's fun because each thing you learn is actually quite an insight that makes you go "oohhhhh. right."
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<eyJhb>
ldlework: what word did you mean to point at?
<ldlework>
eyJhb: "If you would like* an introduction"
<gchristensen>
ldlework: I'm down to play, eventually. gotta come up with a huge shopping list :/
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<ldlework>
cool
<eyJhb>
ldlework: makes sense!
<eyJhb>
Anyone with a suggestion for indian food that isn't butter chicken or dhal? (also no 3 hours prep)
<gchristensen>
I like saag paneer, chicken korma, papri chaat, lamb with cardamom, ...
<ldlework>
Chicken Tikka Missala?
<gchristensen>
eyJhb: madhur jaffrey has a book on quick/easy Indian dishes
<eyJhb>
Thanks gchristensen and ldlework ! Will look at them and see if I can get the lady to approve any of them :D
<joepie91>
but I need to build my raised beds first
<joepie91>
which I might do tomorrow? not sure yet
<joepie91>
also no idea yet where I'm gonna put the tomato plants
<joepie91>
I might do with them what I've done with the garden pea plants
<joepie91>
plant as many as I have space for, put the rest in front of my house with a sign "free <thing> plants!"
<srk>
:)))
<joepie91>
in my defense, the bag said "approximately 70 plants" and I didn't expect half a bag to result in 147(!!!!!) plants!
<srk>
how do you start the seeds?
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<joepie91>
srk: for garden pea plants, I reused an old plastic container from an IKEA tool set, white container with a transparent lid that you click closed; filled it with a mixture of 4/5 potting soil and 1/5 vermiculite, watered it, closed the container and put it outside in the sun (eventually inside of my 'flat greenhouse' thing, that you can see in one of the pics)
<joepie91>
closed container mainly to keep pests out
<joepie91>
like 8 seeds or so didn't sprout, all the others did
<joepie91>
actually was a bit late with re-potting them, so I had to untangle a lot of roots, but it seems that most of them survived it
<srk>
cool, thanks :)
<joepie91>
kept them growing in small pots in the flat greenhouse thing for a while, then eventually put them inside of the big tub
<joepie91>
the vermiculite is very useful, it acts as a solid sponge-like material, absorbs water and very slowly releases it
<joepie91>
also makes the soil more airy
* srk
needs to improve his gardening skills
<joepie91>
I'm basically defaulting to 1/5th vermiculite for all my soil everywhere :P
<joepie91>
(I found a bulk seller selling it cheap)
<ldlework>
I used that stuff when I grew psychedelic mushrooms in highschool
<joepie91>
srk: how's your Dutch?
<ldlework>
it keeps all the moisture out so you don't get any kind of molds in the shrooms
<srk>
and my english vocabulary concerning this topic
<srk>
joepie91: I know a little French except for English :)
<joepie91>
has *extensive* articles about a ton of different plants, how they grow best, in particular the "why" behind it, pests and diseases to watch out for
<joepie91>
but I don't know how well it will machine-translate
<srk>
joepie91: native is Slovak but I'm living in Czech rep. now
<joepie91>
aha
<joepie91>
well, try machine-translating that site :P see if it makes any snse
<ldlework>
I am going to be giving an introductory lesson to Go, if anyone wants to join in.
<srk>
joepie91: what's the point of raised beds?
<joepie91>
srk: water can more easily leave the soil if it's overwatered, it's a bit easier to work in them because you don't have to sit on your knees, and in my case it gives me a little more sun per day due to being higher up
<joepie91>
bonus: you get some storage space under them for waterproof stuff
<joepie91>
(I have to contend with fencing on all sides of my garden)
<joepie91>
srk: also a general benefit of not planting directly into the soil is that the soil in a raised bed of some sort (whether table-like or not) will heat up more quickly
<joepie91>
because there's less to heat
<joepie91>
similar to how growing tomato plants in pots is generally much more effective than doing so in soil
<srk>
I see
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<srk>
I've tried hydroponic tomatoes last year but they weren't that good
<srk>
using normal pots this time :)
<__monty__>
ldlework: What site should I register with? online-go.com?
<ldlework>
__monty__: online-go.com
<ldlework>
yeah
<__monty__>
Can we chat on irc rather than the site?
<srk>
I'll try to join the next lesson, feeling pretty braindead already and still trying to finish an overlay
<ldlework>
__monty__: it's far easier on the site
<ldlework>
as the chat is right next to the board
<ldlework>
but whatever you want i suppose :)
<ldlework>
__monty__: Do you know the rules, etc?
<__monty__>
The basics, yeah. I verified my email so we can use the site.
<ldlework>
__monty__: I am actually teaching someone else right now
<ldlework>
__monty__: but also make sure your weaknesses get shored up
<ldlework>
__monty__: maybe white gets a little something in the middle
<ldlework>
use your two groups of strong stones independently
<ldlework>
to secure the sides
<ldlework>
at bottom obv
<ldlework>
you just need 51%
<ldlework>
this will be a good review no matter what happens
<ldlework>
__monty__: mind your shortages..
<ldlework>
the atari is tempting I know :D maybe its the right move
<ldlework>
but mind your shortages...
<ldlework>
you still only need 51%
<ldlework>
__monty__: brilliant. force him to capture so you can recover a bit
<ldlework>
really, impressive.
<ldlework>
now just make good on it
<ldlework>
you gotta follow through more
<samueldr>
srk: know of any good "LAN of things" infrared repeater that doesn't phone home incessantly or requires first pairing with a proprietary app in a script you can't read?
<samueldr>
(or anyone else with the knowledge too)
<srk>
hmm, not really
<srk>
samueldr: what's the use-cae?
<srk>
*case
<samueldr>
integrating into either home-assistant directly, or something else entirely, the need is basically to be able to learn codes, and to send them at will
<srk>
I mostly have experience with esps on wifi and stm32s with wired CAN
<samueldr>
though I now realize repeater may not be the best name for that
<srk>
hmm, nodemcu has someting for IR doesn't it?
<samueldr>
possibly
<samueldr>
the best answer in a thread about home-assistant was "just do it using an esp it's easy" but absolutely no documentation and way more condescending
<samueldr>
others were "use this 60$ thing from aliexpress" you look into it and it apparently phones home incessantly, or "use this xiaomi thing" it doesn't phone home, but you first need to pair it to a chinese mainland xiaomi account :|
<srk>
yeah, search is not helpful either, bunch of instructables and dedicated projects
<joepie91>
cole-h: please let me know when you complete 01 :P
<cole-h>
rofl
<cole-h>
All I know is I don't want to use GTK and have to pull in all those deps every time
<joepie91>
and then there's Qt and where are the docs really, and then some people suggest the Piston/Conrad stuff but wtf how am I supposed to use that for a real application that isn't a game, and then there's Azul but it's not production-ready and doesn't have scrolling yet
<joepie91>
and oh hey there are bindings to Windows stuff but that's WIndows only
* joepie91
has gone through this mill several times now :(
<cole-h>
Yeah. I remember looking at Conrad and Azul. And then I found out there are some widgets that would be required that they lack
<ldlework>
cole-h, gchristensen, I'm playing a game with drakonis and another newbie, where they both cooperate on moves against me. If you wanna join us..
<joepie91>
cole-h: so yeah, let me know if you find a solution :P
<joepie91>
but now I must be off
<cole-h>
o/
<joepie91>
time for some chat-free time
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<__monty__>
ldlework: Hmm, so I can access the game's history but there's no timestamps to correlate it with the irc logs. Any way to get at those?
<sphalerite>
wow, emacs can be pretty cool
<ldlework>
__monty__: no just move numbers unfortunately
<ldlework>
sphalerite: well yeah
<ldlework>
:)
<dadada__>
Having some trouble switching to new system configuration after upgrade to 20.03. PAM complains about account root beeing expired during 'nix-env ... --set ...'. Should I file a bug, or am I missing something here. Switching the congfiguration works find with 19.09
<sphalerite>
ldlework: yeah so I'm not much of an emacs expert, but managed to write a little hook that immediately updates the output of a jq expression as I edit it
<sphalerite>
it's lovely
<ldlework>
oh nice
<sphalerite>
Related: does anyone know how the prices shown on Hetzner's Serverbörse/Server Auction page can be derived from the slightly different ones in the JSON it fetches?
<gchristensen>
shady
<sphalerite>
my best guess would be that one is gross and the other is net, but…
<sphalerite>
oh wait
<tilpner>
sphalerite: Apply taxes
<tilpner>
* 1.19
<sphalerite>
I thought I saw some cases where the price shown on the page was lower than the one in the json, but it seems I was mistaken
<sphalerite>
tilpner: thanks!
<tilpner>
sphalerite: If you set your country to "All others" at the top, you get 0% taxes, and the API results should match the live display
<sphalerite>
ah, neat
<sphalerite>
though I'm more interested in what I'll actually have to pay :)
<tilpner>
Are you trying to snipe some cheap build servers?
* tilpner
is glad to no longer rely on Hetzners miserable free remote hands
<tilpner>
"Yes, we replaced all your hardware, the problem is gone now"
<tilpner>
The problem was not gone, and I wasted months on it. Got an entirely new server, and everything was good
<sphalerite>
not so much a build server as a general-purpose server, to replace an existing one which is way over-priced by now
<tilpner>
The one you were paying 60€ for?
<sphalerite>
a little less than 60, and not paying myself, but yes :p
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<tilpner>
Ahh, that was just a random figure then
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<sphalerite>
I like how people abbreviate COVID-19 to CV-19 because it's too long
<eyJhb>
C-19, C19, C9
<eyJhb>
C4.
<cole-h>
Wait a minute
<eyJhb>
So close.
<tilpner>
I've also seen someone refer to it as Covid-1984
<cransom>
i've seen a few replace the meaning of 'the c word'
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<manveru>
i just managed to completely crash my machine twice in a row... i think messing with wireguard using tc might not be completely safe...
<ornxka>
it is technically inaccurate but if something else important comes along also named corona virus we can just call it something else
<ornxka>
qyliss: tell them that was bird flu and has been gone for years now
<MichaelRaskin>
The problem is that there is already a kind of important family of coronaviruses
<qyliss>
Apparently enough people that they had to add a notice at the top of the Wikipedia article about the burd
<MichaelRaskin>
We call them «common cold», together with a ton of other stuff, though
<etu>
bird flu, isn't that twitter?
<ornxka>
MichaelRaskin: sure but as the most important corona virus i think it makes sense to just call it corona virus
<ornxka>
technical meanings are not so important outside of technical fields
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, and of course CoVID-2019 is technically speaking not the virus but the disease, apparently
<gchristensen>
whatever that means
<qyliss>
The virus being SARS-Cov-2?
<manveru>
because the next outbreak will be CoVID-2020 or CoVID-2021, but with the same virus :)
<MichaelRaskin>
Yes
<MichaelRaskin>
manveru: nope, it's still the strain of 2019 so…
<__monty__>
qyliss: Yes, coloquially known as Corona.
<__monty__>
And isn't it still nCoV? Or has the novelty worn off for everyone?
<sphalerite>
qyliss: or nCov-19 also I think?
<MichaelRaskin>
__monty__: nCoV is underspecified
<__monty__>
MichaelRaskin: I meant in the full name SARS-*n*CoV-2.
<MichaelRaskin>
nCoV-2019 is fine, but apparently they managed to burn through multiple notation conventions
<MichaelRaskin>
I think the -2 version was never with n
<ashkitten>
it's so frustrating to see people who have small issues with features of mario maker because it's like, if this was free software you could actually fix these issues yourself. is there anything close to what mario maker does but as free software?
<MichaelRaskin>
What is mario maker?
<ashkitten>
also it's especially frustrating to see nintendo ripping off the romhacking community without giving any credit. like, most of the features in updates are things romhackers invented first
<__monty__>
MichaelRaskin: My thorough research (on a single wiki page) seems to indicate you're right about the n.
<qyliss>
ashkitten: I think SuperTux maybe has a level editor?
<MichaelRaskin>
It kind of makes sense, as «novel» was a part of the name with connotation «let us run similarity tests on the genome before committing to taxonomical classification»
<__monty__>
Yep.
<ashkitten>
qyliss: i'm talking specifically about something that makes it seamless to create, share, and play levels
<sphalerite>
ashkitten: supertux+syncthing xD
<ashkitten>
that's, not what i mean at all
<sphalerite>
:p
<ashkitten>
i just hate to see nintendo ripping off their most dedicated fans over and over
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<cole-h>
lovesegfault: While I wait for that gtk patch to make its way through hydra, I'm now running a super minimal swaybar :(
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<ornxka>
what is wayland like these days?
<cole-h>
Good for some usecases, bad for others :P
<cole-h>
I love it because I don't have to deal with fscking screen tearing anymore
<cole-h>
That's really the only reason
<ornxka>
ahh
<ornxka>
id like that, frankly...
<samueldr>
as it always has been, somewhere between best thing since slice bread and the worst thing you ever used, all depending on who you ask
<ornxka>
lol
<cole-h>
Pure, buttery smooth 60fps EVERYWHERE
<samueldr>
sometimes for genuins reasons, sometimes for no good reason
<cole-h>
But, as ashkitten has pointed out in the past, the lack of accessibility features makes it a non-starter for many people
<sphalerite>
cole-h: except in firefox lol
<ornxka>
mostly the thing holding me back from using it is that nvidia doesnt like wayland
<cole-h>
sphalerite: I run webrender, so I see 60fps pretty much everywhere.
<sphalerite>
cole-h: oh, are you using firefox-bin?
<cole-h>
ornxka: I use nouveau
<cole-h>
sphalerite: firefox-nightly-bin from nixpkgs-mozilla, yeah
<sphalerite>
aah ok
<ornxka>
doesnt that come with like a 50% performance drop
<cole-h>
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<cole-h>
I don't game in Linux
<ornxka>
ah, i play video games occasionally
<cole-h>
I have a Windows VM for that
<eyJhb>
Dreading packing kata containers for NixOS :/ ANyone bored?
<sphalerite>
nouveau is great, saves lots of power :^)
<samueldr>
or you could have a nixos child config with nvidia proprietary you can switch to as needed :)
<ornxka>
its all just so much work
<tilpner>
eyJhb: It's not hard
<tilpner>
I've done it, tested id, and then never used it again
<sphalerite>
ornxka: can recommend Windows VM with PCIe passthrough :)
<cole-h>
^
<qyliss>
What are the accessibility issues with Wayland?
<tilpner>
eyJhb: From Apr 2019, so I can give you files, but they will be outdated
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<cole-h>
It sure feels like 99% baremetal performance
<cole-h>
Which is very nice
<eyJhb>
tilpner: sure, do it!
* cole-h
has to do some hackery with libvirtd hooks because of his single-GPU setup
<eyJhb>
That sounded command like, I would love if you could share it with me :)
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<tilpner>
eyJhb: https://tx0.co/MBL is a tar of the packages. I can't find the module anymore
<{^_^}>
kata-containers/runtime#175 (by egernst, 2 years ago, open): Name resolution failure when using Docker custom networks (swarm/compose)
<eyJhb>
Makes it somewhat unuseable in the first stage, next stage not so much
<eyJhb>
At some point I will run a external DNS for each setup anyways. but yeah
<MichaelRaskin>
ornxka: I think nouveau comes with 100% better xrandr performance (without: wrong, with: correct), so not a drop over all dimensions!
<MichaelRaskin>
(It is true that when I play recent video games on Linux, it is probably SandSpiel.club which technically qualifies and even uses modern GPU-related technologies! — namely, basic WebGL)
<drakonis>
oh, nixos-obsolete?
<drakonis>
MichaelRaskin: play noita
<MichaelRaskin>
I think my playing only fully open-source games is more likely than my buying games.
<MichaelRaskin>
(Probably neither will happen)
<drakonis>
i would've liked seeing it go open source but well
<drakonis>
these things dont happen very often
<MichaelRaskin>
I mean, it is of type needing polish
<MichaelRaskin>
It might have required more polish than everything else
<MichaelRaskin>
So of course it is paid.
<sphalerite>
drakonis: oh, I've been tempted to buy noita… You'd recommend it?
<drakonis>
hell yeah
<drakonis>
the physics sandbox and magic wand making is quite fun
<drakonis>
it is quite difficult though
<drakonis>
it partakes quite heavily on "yet another stupid death"
<drakonis>
it is a game i will play for years to come because it is a lot of fun
<cole-h>
The pixel physics are great
<drakonis>
i remember a game called cortex command, which featured destructible terrain
<eyJhb>
well. might just make stuff work with the default runtime in Docker, change stuff and see how much breaks tilpner :p But thanks! Dose the link die ?
<drakonis>
it was quite fun but janky
<tilpner>
eyJhb: I have no intention of deleting it soon, but also make no guarantees about availability in the far future
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, destructible terrain was there even in the self-proclaimed The Mother Of All Games (although of course Scorched Earth is not that old)
<drakonis>
ah scorched earth
<drakonis>
destructible terrain with physics on the terrain?
<eyJhb>
saved tilpner. What did you use it for? And was it "good"?
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, it did drop down
<drakonis>
it was similar to worms
<MichaelRaskin>
Erm, except like 10 years older?
<viric>
this about terrain reminded me of liero
<drakonis>
oh yes
<tilpner>
eyJhb: There was probably a decent reason why it ended up in nixos-obsolete. But of course I didn't write it down, because that would require foresight and make sense
<drakonis>
ah scorched earth had full physics on terrain
<MichaelRaskin>
I am annoyed that packaging NiL nowadays is crazy hard
<drakonis>
so not at all like worms
<MichaelRaskin>
(I tried)
<drakonis>
NiL?
<MichaelRaskin>
NiL isn't Liero
<MichaelRaskin>
Kind of similar to Liero/OpenLiero
<cole-h>
But you just said it wasn't Liero :o
<MichaelRaskin>
But unlimited and very long rope by default, and it does not even count against the weapon count
<eyJhb>
tilpner: of course ;) But thanks, it is saved in... a place that I hope I can find again. Should really have a quick and dirty notes dir
<drakonis>
what does NiL stand for?
<drakonis>
y'all should check clonk btw
<cole-h>
NiL isn't Liero
<drakonis>
ohhh
<cole-h>
lol
<MichaelRaskin>
Recursive acronym
<drakonis>
oof
<drakonis>
how did i not see that
<cole-h>
:D
<MichaelRaskin>
So, I am convinced that NiL is a game about flight
<drakonis>
ah it died too
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, first you nuke some space to fly in…
<drakonis>
i remember playing lierox a while ago
<MichaelRaskin>
Liero is about shooting and digging
<drakonis>
it had a ton of extra content but holy hell it was janky
<MichaelRaskin>
NiL is about digging enough to enjoy flight
<drakonis>
i played liero back in 2000
<MichaelRaskin>
Yep
<MichaelRaskin>
I think I played NiL around 2002/2003?
<MichaelRaskin>
I tried to build it with Nix and modern versions of stuff, but failed. I did not try proper patching, though
<drakonis>
it is very finnish though
<drakonis>
soldat and noita came out of it
<drakonis>
and soon there'll be soldat 2
<sphalerite>
oh, at this point I have to plug clonk/openclonk
<drakonis>
i brought it up
<cole-h>
Yeah, but did you plug it?
<cole-h>
;^)
<sphalerite>
oh really?
<sphalerite>
hah, I didn't see that
<sphalerite>
oh yeah there it is hehe
<sphalerite>
journalctl -u sshd | grep -o 'invalid user [^ ]*' | sort | uniq -c | sort -n | less # Who do people think they can log in as on your server?
<cole-h>
>> 12 invalid user nixos
<cole-h>
A result of me trying to SSH into my qemu VM but pointing it at the wrong address
<__monty__>
abathur: I know someone who does in #ranger.
<viric>
I use git annex
<viric>
But I'm quitting. It's tough to quit git annex though
<abathur>
heh heh
<viric>
Now I'm using more and more btrfs, with send/recv etc.
<abathur>
hmm
<__monty__>
On external disks?
<viric>
everywhere
<viric>
yes
<__monty__>
So never share a thumb drive with windows/macos users?
<abathur>
I started trying to adopt git-annex a while back for my documents, pictures, stuff that "I" want one copy of, but which I might produce on different machines over time
<viric>
ok sorry, spinning disks. I never share spinning disks with those OS
<abathur>
and which I'd like "access" to everywhere, but don't really want to carry full copies of on each portable
<abathur>
but I got bit (luckily, not too hard) early in that process by not setting up a clone on a laptop right
<viric>
I used git annex to manage what I had in multiple usb disks
<abathur>
and I intended to port off some PDFs, receipts and crap
<abathur>
and it ate them all
<viric>
It scaled very bad as the number of files grow. Transfers for multiple copies were terribly slow too.
<abathur>
not dire, but it undermined my confidence in git-annex being simple enough for me to trust stuff I consider fairly important
<abathur>
*trust with
<viric>
I guess it ended up at 1 or 2MB/s
<viric>
Running fsck was unberable
<abathur>
nod
<viric>
That meant no fsck
<abathur>
how many files you talking about? :)
<viric>
$ git ls-tree -r HEAD | wc -l
<viric>
65493
<abathur>
heh heh
<__monty__>
Wait, what does git-annex have to do with fsck?
<viric>
git annex fsck
<__monty__>
Oh.
<viric>
btrfs makes the transfers of snapshots so much faster, that then I can use pairs of external disks closely as if it were a raid
<viric>
and btrfs scrub works as fast as it can
<viric>
I had a pair of bitflips in a 2tb usb disk
<abathur>
I have a restic-based backup process I've been liking, at a single-system level; it gets me good confidence in storing backups in multiple locations, being able to restore them
<viric>
they were in git annex files that I had 2nd copy
<viric>
abathur: I use restic when I need encryption, like uploading somewhere
<abathur>
but it's not quite what I want for doc/media sorts of stuff that I really don't want system-distinct copies of
<viric>
for external disks it's just luks
<abathur>
so I liked the premise of annex for that, but after my early experience it just feels like a footbazooka
<viric>
you laughed at 65k files?
<viric>
it isn't that much if you want pdfs and pictures
<viric>
I had lots of videos of conferences I shot
<viric>
Moving things around with git annex from this disk to the other was too painful. And the drop was also tricky to understand
<abathur>
well, the doc and media directories I have annexed atm sum to around 150k files over like 85k subdirectories
<abathur>
though IIRC I set it up as like 3 separate annexes
<viric>
same order. It was so slow even a git info!
<viric>
a single core thing of haskell parsing lots of text
<abathur>
on my *laptop* it's a relatively small number of files created, some of which I want to push out into the general copy, and which I'd like to have readily-available
<viric>
There is one thing that I might have learnt from using git annex
<viric>
I leave too much rw files around when they should be readonly
<__monty__>
Does the write access really matter?
<viric>
well I think that most often I lost files because I do something wrong
<viric>
it helps.
<__monty__>
It only prevents changing the contents though. You can still easily remove the files accidentally?
<viric>
I think rm asks, isn't it?
<__monty__>
Does mv? I think nano writes to a tempfile and then moves it in place?
<viric>
I hope so
<viric>
You are also not a big user of readonly files
<viric>
specially because "w f1" fails only with "the file exists"
<__monty__>
Yeah, I don't think taking away write permissions is a very robust form of protection.
<viric>
it's something
<__monty__>
I could imagine it being a bit of an annoyance.
<__monty__>
Maybe consider snapshots?
<viric>
I do snapshots
<__monty__>
Hmm, then why's file loss still an issue?
<viric>
But there are files I won't ever change, so why keep them rw? video files, ...
<MichaelRaskin>
viric: I believe immutable attribute is slightly stronger
<viric>
__monty__: ah with snapshots at some point you have to decide to drop snapshots :)
<viric>
MichaelRaskin: it is
<viric>
MichaelRaskin: but for a mv, I don't know. I'll try
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<MichaelRaskin>
FS-dependent, of course
<__monty__>
Oh, was only thinking of text files for some reason. Sounds reasonable as a default for most media, yeah.
<viric>
hm immutable is not for lay users
<viric>
__monty__: if I set a file readonly is to never change it. I don't play putting and removing w :
<viric>
:)
<MichaelRaskin>
viric: allow yourself passwordless sudo to _set_ but not remove the attribute?
<viric>
could be done.
<viric>
but then I want to move the file around so I guess -w is just easier and somewhat safe
<infinisil>
I know I've said it like 3 times already, but the navigation on GitHub is really annoying
<infinisil>
I just wanted to get to the changes tab of a PR, and suddenly I end up at an entirely different PR, through some weird sequence of clicks that went somewhere else I presume
<infinisil>
Also, Changes tab's of PR's switching over one tab to the right soon after loading because now the Checks tab inserted itself there
<cole-h>
(:
<cole-h>
There's also that weird "doesn't actually change pages" issue, where if you click too fast on another tab, the URL changes, but you're on the same page as you were before
<infinisil>
Oh yeah
<infinisil>
Also, and maybe this is just my not-1gbps-connection-which-of-course-everybody-has, but all of GitHub is kind of slow all the time
<MichaelRaskin>
Erm, does it come even close to saturating your connection anyway?
<__monty__>
Not as slow as GitLab. But yeah, it's not a snappy site.
<infinisil>
MichaelRaskin: Oh yeah probably not
<infinisil>
And my ping isn't bad, like 60ms
<infinisil>
Oh wait, apparently I have 100-150 ping to github.com
<infinisil>
I can imagine the slowness being from too many roundtrips with that
<infinisil>
Maybe they only have servers in the US?
<MichaelRaskin>
infinisil: look, they still need to produce response
<MichaelRaskin>
Just open the network inspector already
<MichaelRaskin>
I bet you will see a request that beats ten times your ping to US
<infinisil>
Not sure how I can tell, I'm not well-versed in the network inspector
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<infinisil>
MichaelRaskin: Would appreciate it if you wouldn't have that tone though. Maybe it's obvious to you why it's slow or you could find out in a second, but that doesn't mean it's like this for everybody
<MichaelRaskin>
Hm, yes, I guess I worded it confrontationally
<MichaelRaskin>
My confidence is mostly based on the fact that they have had multiple outages of «high percent of server-side timeouts»
<MichaelRaskin>
As for the way of network inspection, are you using Firefox or do I need to open Chromium to look how things are called there?
<samueldr>
github uses either directly, or through a similar implementation, turbolinks
<samueldr>
I guess some of the issues infinisil faces could be helped if a browser extension could cut it out
<samueldr>
I say that because I face similar issues
<infinisil>
I'm using firefox
<samueldr>
I am too
<samueldr>
though it's not a browser-specific issue I'm pretty sure
<samueldr>
(as in, I had issues when I was using chrome more often)
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, I was advising to look at the network trace, so I wouldn't want to work under a false assumption about the web developer tool layout
<MichaelRaskin>
Open the developer tools (the F12 stuff), pick the «network» tab
<samueldr>
I love searching online about "fixing" github behaviour
<samueldr>
I only find github issues about other projects
<samueldr>
because they're hosted on github!
<ldlework>
RIP Kim Jong-Un
<cole-h>
samueldr: Is that what that crap is called, "turbolinks"?
<samueldr>
that's a popular implementation of it, yes, for rails, github is in rails, so I assumed
<cole-h>
Now where's the addon to disable that...
* cole-h
exercises his Google-fu
<samueldr>
though that's turbolinks *when* it loads html for you instead of letting the browser do it
<MichaelRaskin>
samueldr: I get some descriptions of issues _with_ GitHub in DDG, though! But yeah, majority is about GH-hosted stuff
<samueldr>
if it's actively doing AJAX with json payloads it's not turbolinks, just a classic SPA
<MichaelRaskin>
infinisil: so, with network console open, do something (by default, there no network request monitoring when the console is not there, for performance reasons)
<infinisil>
MichaelRaskin: I got to the network tab yeah, I do something and some lines show up
<infinisil>
And a whole bunch of requests
<MichaelRaskin>
Right-click on the header bar gives the header choice, Timings → Duration is the one we want (to sort on it)
<MichaelRaskin>
Click on the Duration header (twice, I guess) to get longest-first
<MichaelRaskin>
Clicking the coloured line on the right shows the breakdown as a list
<MichaelRaskin>
Blocked (not yet trying to talk to server), DNS, TCP connection establishment, TLS connection establishing, uploading the request, waiting for the response to start, downloading the response