gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
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<ldlework> drakonis: lol I already got back to my original rank, https://online-go.com/game/23223912
<ldlework> 11k
<ldlework> wow i just played maybe the most interesting 9x9 i've ever played
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<drakonis> i gotta see this
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<drakonis> that's a mirror match
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<drakonis> jeeze i reconnected a lot
<ldlework> drakonis: let's play
<drakonis> cool
<ldlework> cole-h: wanna play drak
<drakonis> dang that move sucked
<pie_[bnc]> am I the only one that didnt know this?
<pie_[bnc]> > import { outPath = ./shell.nix; } {}
<pie_[bnc]> «derivation /nix/store/20y2qbf2d58k0wc73l2fhfxg355dr4w7-nix-shell.drv»
<{^_^}> access to path '/var/lib/nixbot/state/nixpkgs/shell.nix' is forbidden in restricted mode
<clever> > { a = "1"; b = "b"; __toString = self: a + b; }
<{^_^}> { __toString = <CODE>; a = "1"; b = "b"; }
<clever> > let x = { a = "1"; b = "b"; __toString = self: a + b; }; in "${x}"
<{^_^}> "foofoo"
<clever> > let x = { a = "1"; b = "b"; __toString = self: a + b; }; in "${x // { a = "new val"; }}"
<{^_^}> "foofoo"
<clever> oh, right
<clever> > let x = { a = "1"; b = "b"; __toString = self: self.a + self.b; }; in "${x}"
<{^_^}> "1b"
<clever> > let x = { a = "1"; b = "b"; __toString = self: self.a + self.b; }; in "${x // { a = "new val"; }}"
<{^_^}> "new valb"
<clever> pie_[bnc]: ^
<pie_[bnc]> clever: yep
<pie_[bnc]> so we have __functor, __toString, anything else?
<clever> pie_[bnc]: most of these are special in some way
<pie_[bnc]> clever: is this with? : sWith(symbols.create("<with>"))
<pie_[bnc]> can we crete out own withs at runtume
<pie_[bnc]> i imagine not
<pie_[bnc]> not that i have any idea how that could be useful but
<pie_[bnc]> hm no other mentions of it in this file
<clever> pie_[bnc]: its not used anywhere in the codebase!
<pie_[bnc]> hmm :p
<pie_[bnc]> committed 10 years ago
<clever> commit 81de12bc8fa09a89dae958a3ffc93e7a4c245db1
<clever> * Refactoring: move variable uses to a separate class.
<clever> - Bindings::iterator i = env2->bindings.find(sWith);
<clever> it ceased to do anything ~10 years ago i believe
<pie_[bnc]> i like how the ocmmit mentions symbol pointer equality test for efficiency
<clever> it used to be a special key in a set, like { "<with>" = "something"; } i think
<pie_[bnc]> but im still salty a == a is not always true
<pie_[bnc]> anyway
<pie_[bnc]> puck was waying something about { inherit a; } == { inherit a; } and I should remember to check that out. i actually vaguely remember something in the code
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<ashkitten> tfw multiple people with the same nick color are talking at once in a channel
<ashkitten> i guess that's what happens sometimes when there's only 15 unique colors to randomize with
<samueldr> I always knew "thousands of colors" and "millions of colors" displays were a sham
<ashkitten> ✨ samueldr
<{^_^}> samueldr's karma got increased to 210
* samueldr begins to worry about the joke karma / help karma ratio
<ashkitten> nobody gives karma when i help them anyways
<ashkitten> i give karma when people make me smile
<ldlework> gchristensen: cole-h, here's drakonis's first or second 13x13 :)
<ldlework> get on his level hehe
<drakonis> game was great.
<ashkitten> ldlework: you've been teaching people go, right?
<ldlework> yeah
<ashkitten> sounds neat
<ldlework> you should join us if it's something you think you would enjoy
<drakonis> i tried to set up a comeback
<drakonis> twas the stuff
<ashkitten> i'm not much of a strategy game player
<ashkitten> i played chess with my grandpa a decade ago and that's about it
<ldlework> ashkitten: we don't have any standards, everyone starts from the beginning
<ldlework> :)
<ashkitten> that's good to hear, and maybe i'll take you up on it sometime
<ashkitten> my computer is currently moving a ton of data between 2 hard disks, though
<ldlework> ashkitten: do you know the rules?
<ashkitten> i know it's some sort of strategy board game?
<ashkitten> that's about it
<ldlework> yeah, you try to use stones to build walls so that only you surround some given empty space
<ldlework> it's over 2500 years old
<ldlework> probably older
<ashkitten> interesting
<ldlework> it's the oldest game people still play
<ldlework> emperors have played it the tops of mountains and shit
<ashkitten> weird flex
<ldlework> haha
<ashkitten> "you should play minecraft, sir patrick stewart once played it in a helicopter"
<ashkitten> :p
<ashkitten> (note: patrick stewart may or may not have actually played minecraft in a helicopter)
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<ldlework> hehe
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<srk> samueldr: found the forge https://sourcehut.org/
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<infinisil> Nice, many mentions of NixOS in https://lobste.rs/s/bu3ynt/what_s_your_distro_how_did_you_pick_it :D
<MichaelRaskin> Time for the next step — making sure next time there are NixOS spin-offs there?
<__monty__> Is lobste.rs, RiiR HN?
<infinisil> __monty__: https://lobste.rs/about
<__monty__> infinisil: That answered everything except for is it written in Rust, which I guess was the main thrust of my question : >
<MichaelRaskin> And that link _is_ in the about
<infinisil> I interpreted your question as "Is lobsters just HN but rewritten in rust?" To which the answer is No, because it's much more than that
<__monty__> Tbh, it doesn't look like much more than that.
<__monty__> MichaelRaskin: True, in the Transparency Policy section. I wasn't reading that attentively though.
<MichaelRaskin> I mean, if you are given the about and you wonder how the source is written, searching for «source» sounds natural
<MichaelRaskin> At least to me
<__monty__> I searched for the language in particular.
<infinisil> Of course it's still a link aggregation site, but imo it's much better than HN in the ways they listed in the about
<__monty__> I still prefer reddit over both but probably just because the communities I like are over there.
<srk> samueldr: drakonis: thanks for the inspiration! https://github.com/sorki/nur-packages/blob/master/hm-modules/custom-command.nix
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<evanjs> ughhh I need to set up a hydra instance that just gives me TeX-full.tar lol
<evanjs> soooooooooooooooooooooooo many little packages x_x
<evanjs> I really just need to fix my deployment story with my computers in general, but bah
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<MichaelRaskin> I think there is a large enough precombined scheme?
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<evanjs> I mean I _am_ using the full package
<evanjs> maybe it's already optimized as much as possible, and I should just get a drink or something whenever I rebuild and see LaTeX :P
<eyJhb> MichaelRaskin: How good are you with asymptote?
<__monty__> evanjs: Maybe just pin it? Do you really need the latest updates for all those packages?
<MichaelRaskin> I do not really remember the standard library there.
<evanjs> __monty__: like nothing is pinned on my systems save channels :P but yeah I guess that'd be an option. Or limit scheme packages to direnv/project-specific environments, hrm
<eyJhb> MichaelRaskin: I am having scale issues regarding the text :/
<eyJhb> Basically two 0 to 100 lines. And the text is just default
<eyJhb> But the text is HUGE
<gchristensen> absolutely dying. in a board meeting for over 30 minutes, and we can't finish the very first topic, which is labeled as "small; short".
<MichaelRaskin> Ouch
<MichaelRaskin> eyJhb: wait, you are drawing in sbsolute integer coordinates?
<eyJhb> Ehhh. Not really, but somewhat.. I have a map of lines, each having points. So I just want to draw the lines and their name
<eyJhb> Better
<MichaelRaskin> Yep. Just scale the lines by 1mm or something
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<MichaelRaskin> eyJhb: maybe you want to read https://asymptote.sourceforge.io/doc/Figure-size.html
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<eyJhb> Might try later MichaelRaskin , atm. I am trying to make everything work. And I know 100% it is over engineered
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<MichaelRaskin> I mean, it is basically either «scale(u)*p your paths before drawing (with u=5mm or something)» or «unitsize(1mm)»
<eyJhb> MichaelRaskin: https://i.imgur.com/SiYeaUq.png https://pastebin.com/raw/1e8wpuPR atm. somewhat happy! - All the code relies on all my ugly functions
<eyJhb> Needs some cleanup
<eyJhb> If you're bored - https://termbin.com/07tt
<MichaelRaskin> I have a feeling you have managed to compress the entire picture vertically
<eyJhb> No clue, shouldn't be the case
<eyJhb> All the code is in the termbin
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<ar> eyJhb: what language is that?
<eyJhb> ar: asymptote :)
<eyJhb> Completely new to it. MichaelRaskin that presented me for it
<MichaelRaskin> It was closer to an advertisement than to a presentation
<eyJhb> True ;)
<tilpner> Hey #nixos-chat, does anyone have pointers (not ,pointers) on how an application can authenticate itself to a privileged daemon without shared secrets?
<tilpner> I considered a setgid wrapper, and then communication via unix domain sockets, so that the daemon can check which group the client runs as, but I'm not really convinced of that idea
<MichaelRaskin> In what sense authenticate?
<MichaelRaskin> Authenticate as what?
<tilpner> The daemon needs to establish that an incoming connection is established from an process the user trusts to change certain settings
<tilpner> (And setgid would be just one way to encode that trust)
<tilpner> I can't just check if a certain user is connecting, because not all processes of that user can be trusted
<srk> there's also SO_PEERCRED
<MichaelRaskin> And the user is not in the marking group, right?
<tilpner> MichaelRaskin: The user would not be in that group, because that would mean all processes of the user would be considered trusted
<MichaelRaskin> Well, you can play game with that a bit, but not far enough, sure
<tilpner> srk: My idea above is already using PEERCRED, although with a higher-level API. I didn't realise it exposed the PID (but maybe I shouldn't use that because to TOCTTOU?)
<srk> good question
<tilpner> I'm generally careful of using the pid for security checks, but perhaps it would be fine in this case
<tilpner> If a malicious process kills the benign process just after check (and before use), the socket should die with it
* etu has just migrated /home to tmpfs :D
<gchristensen> (oh sheesh it finally ended.)
<__monty__> gchristensen: Bikeshedding?
<srk> tilpner: what if it just attaches to it like gdb does? :)
<MichaelRaskin> The entire thing or just the first point of bikeshedding?
<tilpner> srk: oh no
<MichaelRaskin> If it is sgid, no ptrace
<srk> can tracing be disabled system wide?
<tilpner> Yes, but I want to avoid wrappers
<srk> MichaelRaskin: that depends
<srk> oh, cool
<MichaelRaskin> tilpner: are you going to check LD_LIBRARY_PATH? LD_PRELOAD?
<tilpner> MichaelRaskin: No :c
<ajs124> there is also 2 and 3, if you want to restrict tracing even further
<tilpner> MichaelRaskin: So I guess a wrapper does that for me automatically?
<MichaelRaskin> Complicated. Default ld-linux ignores them if it is used for an sgid/suid binary
<tilpner> I know it's a futile exercise with a dedicated attacker
<infinisil> Formula1 live on twitch, didn't know this was a thing: https://www.twitch.tv/formula1
<infinisil> Oh lol
<srk> lol indeed
<infinisil> I didn't even look closely, it's just a game hah
<tilpner> Yes, this might work after all. Thanks for discussing :)
<tilpner> srk++ MichaelRaskin++
<{^_^}> MichaelRaskin's karma got increased to 27, srk's karma got increased to 9
<etu> infinisil: I've read that it's what they do now. They play the game on the maps for the planned cities on the planned dates and stream it.
<etu> infinisil: Instead of gathering people in big groups that is.
<srk> etu: wish wars were like that!
<MichaelRaskin> tilpner: now I am worried. This might work — setgid wrappers + non-world-writeable unix domain socket?
<tilpner> MichaelRaskin: Yes, I don't know yet if there's any point in checking peercred if the socket is only usable by the marker group
<MichaelRaskin> Should not be.
<tilpner> I tested with putting netcat into security.wrappers, and logging peercred, but then realised I probably didn't need to
<tilpner> What worries you specifically, MichaelRaskin?
<srk> ,substitute
<srk> ,todo = substitute tmpfiles -> systemd.tmpfiles
<{^_^}> todo defined
<MichaelRaskin> tilpner: no, with setgid most abuses should be reportable as security flaws in the corresponding toolchains
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<MichaelRaskin> I was just worried about long discussion with multiple options kind of hanging in the air ending with «Yes, that might work after all»
<tilpner> The only option that was actually named was setgid+UDS, and I mentioned that in my initial question
<tilpner> And while I was still looking for other options initially, you two not coming up with any major flaws or better options leaves me feeling a little better :)
<tilpner> (But I also didn't give much context, so...)
<MichaelRaskin> Well, setgid for controlled access to a global resource is generally a technique that is often used
<tilpner> Oh? I wasn't aware of anything doing that :o
<MichaelRaskin> A ton of old games from the time of Unix machines use setgid just to be able to have a shared highscore file that cannot be arbitrarily manipulated by users
<clever> ---s--x--- 1 root wireshark 17704 Apr 14 08:44 /run/wrappers/bin/dumpcap
<clever> ive also mixed g+x and setuid, to let anybody in the wireshark group use wireshark to capture, without root
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<tilpner> Interesting, I haven't really played any games on multi-user systems, but that would make sense
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<tilpner> GTK refuses to load as setgid :/
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<MichaelRaskin> Hm, how does it defined setgid? Maybe you just need to synchronise effective/real/saved?
<tilpner> if (rgid != egid || rgid != sgid) { exit(1) }
<tilpner> #gtk told me to look into dbus, which I admittedly never considered
<MichaelRaskin> I think you can just setresgid
<MichaelRaskin> Unprivileged process is allowed to set rgid and sgid to egid
<MichaelRaskin> D-Bus makes authentication harder, not simpler
<tilpner> \o/ You are right!
<tilpner> <3 MichaelRaskin
<{^_^}> MichaelRaskin's karma got increased to 28
<eyJhb> MichaelRaskin: any way to use pmatrix in a label for asymptote?
<eyJhb> Can't get it to work
<eyJhb> `draw(L=Label("$\begin{pmatrix}1 & 1\\0 & 1 \end{pmatrix}$", position=EndPoint,align=N),ed.getCords("p1", "p0")--ed.getCords("p2", "p1"),dashed+linewidth(0.3),Arrow);`
<MichaelRaskin> Wait, you can L=Label inside draw???
<MichaelRaskin> Never tried
<MichaelRaskin> If you put just $x^2$ as label that works fine, right?
<MichaelRaskin> eyJhb: usepackage("amsmath"); might help
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<MichaelRaskin> OK… <audio id="video">
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