<cole-h>
samueldr: Since you're here: I was looking at your libvirt module on GitLab the other day. How seamless was getting networking up and running? I had a bit of trouble on my current system, is why I ask.
<cole-h>
Err, your pci passthrough module (for libvirt)
<samueldr>
I uh, don't remember doing anything special other than what's in there
<samueldr>
networking with or without pci passthrough should work the same
<cole-h>
Alright.
<cole-h>
Slowly documenting things I have working on my current setup to make translating it to NixOS go smoothly
<drakonis>
its some old rant lol
<drakonis>
impressive reall
<drakonis>
really
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<colemickens>
I think CreateRaw{ScreenWindow}Capturer is supposed to be passing a more specific CaptureSourceType than kAny.
<eyJhb>
Anyone that has a good linux solution for Microsoft 365 mail with 2FA?
<CRTified>
cole-h: you can ping me, too, if you have questions regarding vfio or PCI passthrough with libvirtd. I'm running such a setup to pass a 1080 to a windows VM
<ashkitten>
does anyone have a copy of the matrix reloaded on bluray, i need to check a thing
<etu>
eyJhb: Why do you use displaylink?
<eyJhb>
etu: I need my third screen :p
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<eyJhb>
I feel like we have talked about this before etu :p I hate DL... But I really enjoy three monitors to my little x230, without having to use a eGPU (like we discussed in Sweden) :D
<etu>
eyJhb: Yeah, but I mean. Sometimes people change setups? :)
<srk>
eyJhb: but two of them need the same clock :D
<eyJhb>
Never etu ! Maybe I should. But I would most likely only change to having a eGPU, I love my little x230 too much! And I have a lot of replacement parts for it. It will survive forever! I just need spare parts for my oneplus one as well
<eyJhb>
srk: Same clock? :p
<srk>
eyJhb: like you can't really run three different displays with x230
<eyJhb>
That is where the dreaded displaylink comes into play
<eyJhb>
By basically killing my CPU and running everything off it, and not using the GPU (I guess)
<eyJhb>
But! I am no expert, so you are most likely correct :I
<srk>
aah I see, I've had three monitor setup with x230 years ago, hdmi + dvi + vga, hdmi and dvi had to be the same displays iirc :D
<eyJhb>
So it just showed the same thing on both screnns srk ? :p
<eyJhb>
I can tell you as well, watching youtube on the DL screen is a no go. That hurts the little laptop! :(
<srk>
eyJhb: same resolution / clocks :)
<eyJhb>
Uh. Wait
<eyJhb>
Then I should be able to not use DL srk ? If I have two screens that match?
<srk>
yes, with docking station it can do 3, provided 2 are the same :D
<srk>
for T430 - " The exact limitation is that 2 of the 3 displays must be DP displays, because there are only 2 PLLs in the chipset, and only DP displays can share a PLL."
<srk>
can't find this for x230 but it has similar problem with only 2 PLLs for 3 displays
<eyJhb>
Waait, I want to try this.
<eyJhb>
So HDMI and DVI for the screens that match, using the docking station srk ?
<srk>
possibly, it's been a while - I dont't remember the exact details
<srk>
had to google and play with it till it worked and then wrote a bash script that xrandr-ed displays in correct order :D
<srk>
hmm, I might still have it somewhere
<eyJhb>
No worries, I will only come for you if it doesn't work srk ! >:) \s
<eyJhb>
Would be nice if you had. I would LOVE to throw out the displaylink dock
<makefu>
i am currently preparing for switching to 20.03
<eyJhb>
Might try again later, but need to be a little productive regarding uni now
<eyJhb>
Keep me informed makefu!
<eyJhb>
srk: it works! <3 Thanks! I can get rid of the devil spawn.
<eyJhb>
It is somewhat weird at times, where xrandr will try to dup the VGA to either HDMI1 or 2...
<eyJhb>
It does however look a litte fuggy. But that migth be the monitor
<eyJhb>
Might have to look at a new monitor I guess. But LCD -> VGA might act funny
<MichaelRaskin>
A lot of LCD monitors work much better on VGA if you ask them to autoadjust to search for best mapping of signal to pixels
<eyJhb>
... MichaelRaskin do NOT use logic.
<eyJhb>
Pressed the auto set button
<eyJhb>
Looks better now
<MichaelRaskin>
I have deprived you of the thrill of search for a new monitor?
<eyJhb>
Yes, all that tax-free hardware :(
<srk>
eyJhb: \o/
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<makefu>
you still have a chance to buy gold cable for better video quality!
<etu>
Gold plated toslinks are the best
<eyJhb>
srk: no clue if it will continue to function 50/50. But so far, I am loving it
<eyJhb>
makefu: ! Need
<eyJhb>
However, audio cables are the most sexy ones
<srk>
eyJhb: 50/50?
<eyJhb>
WATCHING YOUTUBE ON THE THIRD SCREEN AND MY LAPTOP ISNT DYING!
<eyJhb>
Yeah
<eyJhb>
Sometimes it just dups the displays
<srk>
ah, I've had to put that into script so it does it in correct order :D
<srk>
was working reliably after that
<eyJhb>
Wondering if arandr can have a order
<eyJhb>
And.. Even when done in that order it failed sometimes
<srk>
I see
<eyJhb>
But the --rotate screwed me :p
<srk>
:D
<srk>
it is good for consoles!
<srk>
if you can rotate the displays
<eyJhb>
Yeah. But ... I have one screen for chat/doc, all my consoles and then misc, which is mostly videos
<eyJhb>
2 sec, will PM you nice images
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<eyJhb>
My shins are also safe at last. The stupid dock kept falling down from the cable tray, and hitting me on the shin
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<eyJhb>
Lenovo chargers just spawn tbh... I just threw out 3-4 of them so I had three left. I now have 8 again
<joepie91>
lol
<gchristensen>
never have I ever had such a wonderful problem
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<__monty__>
gchristensen: Did anyone manage to convince you either way about the patch-based VCS is dead in the water thing?
<infinisil>
Damnit, I suddenly got some stings/itchy spots from unknown origin on my arm
<srk>
any allergies?
<infinisil>
I think the cat I picked up earlier might have been snooping in some sting nettle
<__monty__>
Are you belly crawling through a field of stinging nettles at the moment?
<infinisil>
Hehe
<infinisil>
Now that you mention it __monty__, I am!
<__monty__>
Well, there you go, mystery no more.
<__monty__>
Pleasure doing business.
<srk>
:D
<infinisil>
Phew
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<__monty__>
My relation with stinging nettles is a bit weird. I run through a bit of forest regularly. Gets them seasonally. And I started liking how it felt on my shins/calves...
<MichaelRaskin>
Chili peppers: evolve capsaicin, scare away mammals. Humans: Mmmmmmm.
<__monty__>
Their own damn fault for evolving to be delicious! #sorrynotsorry
<MichaelRaskin>
It did eventually work out for peppers, though, as humans started to actually grow them intentionally.
<MichaelRaskin>
But kind of not as planneed
<infinisil>
Oh no, that same cat is lying on my bed now..
<worldofpeace>
eyJhb: yeah, dvorak makes typing so much more elegant feeling tbh
<worldofpeace>
and thanks :D
<drakonis>
WOW ERRORS THAT ARENT TERRIBLE
<drakonis>
:toot:
<eyJhb>
worldofpeace: it is more like the text just have the letters all over :p
<__monty__>
RIP github notification UI you'll be dearly missed :'(
<MichaelRaskin>
__monty__++
<{^_^}>
__monty__'s karma got increased to 15
<MichaelRaskin>
Github--
<cole-h>
I'm a little miffed that they moved the "new notifications" button from the top of the notifications list to the corner...
<cole-h>
(not to say that I like really anything else they did with the new notifications)
<MichaelRaskin>
I would characterise what they did as «they did Slack with the new notification layout»
* cole-h
has not had the pleasure(?) of using Slack
<MichaelRaskin>
I have been shown
<__monty__>
I *knew* 13 karma was an unlucky number. 2 in as many days, I'll soon be among the other karma wh^Wgods : )
<eyJhb>
I am just happy mine is in the >0 __monty__
<__monty__>
✨ worldofpeace
<{^_^}>
worldofpeace's karma got increased to 152
<ashkitten>
what, when did they move the new notifications button
<ashkitten>
it was right there yesterday, wtf
<ashkitten>
i was fine with the new layout but this is bad
<cole-h>
It was not there for me yesterday (that's when I noticed) :(
<MichaelRaskin>
Hm. It does look like some of the annoyances of the earlier drafts of this UI are now ignorable
<__monty__>
Yeah, my main complaint has been resolved.
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, it is still live-chatty
<joepie91>
eyJhb: it's a core library, so it will use whatever is available in the Node version it is bundled with, which means it shouldn't be an issue. but also that documentation page is outright wrong, "bundling" doesn't magically make newer JS features work, transpiling does that; and you should avoid import/export syntax given that it is a) unnecessary b) not actually properly supported in Node (and various other environments)
<joepie91>
yet, use require()/module.exports instead
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<gchristensen>
the exciting bit is still coming up
<eyJhb>
joepie91: might write it in Go then, and rely on the native approach then
<eyJhb>
When I have the time
<eyJhb>
gchristensen: true!
<eyJhb>
Whelp. My md syntax highlighter in vim stopped highlighting half
<ldlework>
nice
<ldlework>
they landed
<ldlework>
crazy
<ldlework>
that might never get old
<joepie91>
eyJhb: huh? not sure how that follows from what I said
<eyJhb>
No no, I know joepie91. But it is using a language interpereter written in Go for JS. So I was unsure about it to begin with, but the performance hit is significant when doing it in pure JS
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<joepie91>
eyJhb: it... what?
<joepie91>
eyJhb: hold on, are you saying that it is using a custom homegrown JS runtime?
<joepie91>
is it actually an interpreter or does it do JIT?
<eyJhb>
JIT I assume, not sure
<eyJhb>
Nope, interpreter
<joepie91>
not surprised that it's slow then :P
<eyJhb>
Seems weird to do it like that. Why not just do the entire thing in JS then
<ldlework>
eyJhb: Nimlang will compile to both JS and C
<ldlework>
And has user generics, type-classes, meta-programming..
<joepie91>
eyJhb: probably because the author(s) wanted to use Go
<joepie91>
anyway, it's probably a good thing for there to be more JS implementations
<joepie91>
I'm just a bit confused as to why they would use a custom runtime for this specific usecase, especially one that doesn't quite seem prod-ready yet
<ldlework>
millions of dollars went into making v8 what it is today
<joepie91>
ldlework: be careful not to extrapolate that to "millions of dollars would be needed to reproduce the same featureset/performance"
<joepie91>
which is not the same thing
<ldlework>
it's the best performing js engine
<ldlework>
money doesn't necessitate success, but it certainly turned out to be the case for v8
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<__monty__>
I'm not convinced JS wouldn't've been the lingua franca of client-side web if there were less money involved.
<pie_[bnc]>
anyone know how to fix this?:
<pie_[bnc]>
No journal files were opened due to insufficient permissions.
<pie_[bnc]>
Failed to search journal ACL: Operation not supported
<pie_[bnc]>
$ journalctl --user-unit pulseaudio
<eyJhb>
__monty__: but less mature and stable
<eyJhb>
And maybe too many zero days without the money
<MichaelRaskin>
It would be _more_ mature and stable
<MichaelRaskin>
But a lot fewer features.
<joepie91>
it's funny how people always seem to assume that more money leads to more reliability, despite significant piles of evidence suggesting the opposite
<eyJhb>
Well, we will never really know
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<joepie91>
money tends to be a distorting factor more than anything else
<MichaelRaskin>
We kind of already know.
<__monty__>
eyJhb: Yeah, it's not as if there's any language implementations less popular than JS...
<__monty__>
: )
<MichaelRaskin>
FF1.0 times were pretty recently
<joepie91>
(please save me the "well who else is going to pay for the developers" non-questions)
<eyJhb>
Well, I don't think PHP was heavily pumped (was it?), but is generally seen as insecure and slow
<eyJhb>
Anyways! Got to go, sorry for starting and not finishing it
<__monty__>
eyJhb: I think you underestimate the amount of money that went into PHP compared to, say haskell : )
<joepie91>
eyJhb: "pumped"?
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<joepie91>
(unspoken reality: the reason JS got popular is primarily because it's the only language to have more-or-less figured out the software distribution problem)
<joepie91>
(partly accidentally, but still)
<MichaelRaskin>
Don't underestimate the other end, too
<__monty__>
joepie91: I don't see why python, for example, couldn't have been used instead.
<MichaelRaskin>
What other GUI-producing language ever had a full toolchain (even if suboptimal) installed on billions of devices?
<__monty__>
<script> could just as easily have implied python.
<joepie91>
__monty__: it's not about "could have been", it's about "was"
<__monty__>
I'm just saying it didn't figure anything out that other interpreted/JITed language didn't.
<joepie91>
the language that ended up getting the magically-downloaded-on-demand language runtime across virtually every device, ended up being JS
<samueldr>
yet, those other languages are not the ones running in browsers
<joepie91>
__monty__: what point are you trying to make here, exactly, I *explicitly* pointed out that this was partly accidental
<__monty__>
Historical accident is beside the point.
<__monty__>
"it's the only language to have more-or-less figured out the software distribution problem
<__monty__>
"
<gchristensen>
by accident :)
<__monty__>
But it didn't figure it out more than other interpreted languages.
<joepie91>
__monty__: yes, read the message directly after it, there is such a thing as conversational context
<__monty__>
That part isn't relevant. You still said "only."
<__monty__>
Whether it's the only one by accident or not doesn't matter.
<joepie91>
...
<MichaelRaskin>
__monty__: it is the only language that had distribution fully figured out for it.
<joepie91>
yes it is goddamn relevant when I explicitly point out ahead of time that it was partly by accident and then you start rambling off about how Actually, It Was By Accident, which is the very thing I already said
<joepie91>
and it just sounds like you're arguing to have something to say now
<MichaelRaskin>
Yes, for no reason related to that actual language
<__monty__>
joepie91: You're not reading what I'm saying.
<samueldr>
__monty__: I get it, javascript bad, next topic please?
<__monty__>
That's not what I said.
<joepie91>
__monty__: yes, I am reading what you're saying, I'm just refusing to play your "cherry pick sentences out of context to be able to Actually them and complain about a language" game
<__monty__>
Don't know why the pile-on?
<MichaelRaskin>
Yes, how X became succesful is pretty much _always_ by historical accident and not failing badly enough to waste it.
<joepie91>
__monty__: because you are being entirely ignorant to the social context
<joepie91>
and refusing to take a step back when informed as such
<MichaelRaskin>
Because you say «Historical accident is beside the point.» and it is _the only_ point.
<__monty__>
MichaelRaskin: I'm saying I'm not debating the historical accident part.
<__monty__>
What I *am* disagreeing with is that JS is the only language that figured out distribution.
<__monty__>
Any other interpreter could've been built into browsers to interpret whatever appeared in <script> tags.
<MichaelRaskin>
But it is! Specifically due to the historical accidents
<gchristensen>
too bad it didn't and therefor didn't have it figured out for them
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, it was figured out completely but badly
<gchristensen>
yeah but oh well
<gchristensen>
it is
<__monty__>
I think the dissonance is you're all talking about the *practical* side of the problem. While I'm talking about the *technical* part of the problem.
<MichaelRaskin>
Actually, it was not even figured out badly, it was just figured out for a completely different Javascript than what ended up using it
<MichaelRaskin>
There is no technical side in how something became succesful. Not ever.
<samueldr>
it even happens sometimes (often?) to be despite the technical side
<__monty__>
MichaelRaskin: I'm not debating that JS became successful.
<gchristensen>
that would be foolish :P
<__monty__>
Nor am I debating *why*.
<__monty__>
All I disagree with is that JS is the only language that had it "figured out."
<gchristensen>
really
<samueldr>
true
<__monty__>
Because it wasn't substantially different from other interpreted languages.
<samueldr>
Java had it figured out with Java Web Start
<gchristensen>
oh and swf
<samueldr>
gchristensen: no sweary here
<__monty__>
samueldr: I assumed joepie91 didn't consider what Java did as figuring out software distribution.
<joepie91>
neither Java nor Flash worked as universally as JS did, though
<joepie91>
as evident from the many plugin issues
<samueldr>
(I was being fascetious with Java)
<samueldr>
if anything, those days of java web start, and applets, and pre-installed system-wide jvm probably hurt
<MichaelRaskin>
Also, Java and Flash did not have what JS had on the other end
<MichaelRaskin>
With JS you could literally write something in a preinstalled text editor and test it in the preinstalled browser
<samueldr>
__monty__: what other interpreter languages had it well-figured-out in your opinion?
<joepie91>
that, too
<__monty__>
samueldr: Running code straight from text? All of them.
<samueldr>
all?
<joepie91>
MichaelRaskin: and make it functionally available to the world, globally, on your ISP-provided hosting space, or even a random free host
<joepie91>
eg. geocities
<samueldr>
weird, I remember, when I was a wee lad, and not knowledgeable enough, being unable to setup python on windows
<samueldr>
s/python/other languages/ too
<samueldr>
meanwhile javascript (and html) was already present, and working
<samueldr>
sure, I was probably doing things wrong
<samueldr>
but isn't that blaming the user, in most part, wrongly?
<samueldr>
another language I know of that had great success in having its users be able to run code, but requiring a bit more effort than none, was PHP, with at the time those self-contained installers that setup apache and php for you
<gchristensen>
yup
<__monty__>
samueldr: But if it was python or tcl or ruby that was built into the browser it would've been a similar experience.
<samueldr>
and possibly mysql
<gchristensen>
and you couldn't not get PHP support from a free web host at the time
<samueldr>
oh, we could go great lenghts on what ifs
<gchristensen>
__monty__: yeah maybe
<__monty__>
So JS didn't so much figure it out as it was picked by someone for some reason.
<samueldr>
right, the <script> tag was present in vacuum without a language at first, I forgot
<joepie91>
gchristensen: false! freewebtown offered free web hosting for a looooong time without any kind of PHP support, and they were reasonably popular because they gave you 2GB(!) of space
<gchristensen>
didn't we establish many minutes ago that it was figured out for them?
<ldlework>
Wasn't it almost going to be a lisp?
<gchristensen>
joepie91: :P
<joepie91>
:P
<ldlework>
And they were like "make it C like"
<ldlework>
so the guy was like "well alright then"
<ldlework>
that's how i remember the story
<joepie91>
gchristensen: incidentally freewebtown was also great for hosting warez <.<
<gchristensen>
you don't say
<ldlework>
i don't hate javascript, i just like typescript and reasonml better :)
<ldlework>
and happy to have them on hand
<__monty__>
gchristensen: Did you answer my question about patch based version control? Did someone convince you either way?
<gchristensen>
__monty__: all software sucks
<__monty__>
Tautologies are tautologies :p
<ldlework>
nah
<MichaelRaskin>
gchristensen: it's not all that bad, there are still places where software can stay usable with no changes for many years… such software is also likely to get more new fixes than new bugs over time…
<__monty__>
But MichaelRaskin, code that hasn't been touched in a year must be stale and needs to be either completely rewritten or scrapped!?
<MichaelRaskin>
No; but it helps detecting people who need to be kept away from the corner of calm.
* ldlework
inconspicuously moves ripgrep behind a lamp.
<drakonis>
isnt ripgrep much faster than regular grep?
<drakonis>
something something speed demons?
<__monty__>
It is. To the point of making me wonder what grep did wrong. Bad regex engine?
<ldlework>
drakonis: yes, i was helping to put obvious counter-cases out of sight :)
<MichaelRaskin>
There were commits to upstream master like a week ago, though
<MichaelRaskin>
Wait, there was a _release_ less than a month ago
<__monty__>
For grep?
<MichaelRaskin>
For ripgrep
<MichaelRaskin>
For grep it was a quater ago
<__monty__>
Yeah, the point is that ripgrep is a new-fangled replacement of something that "just works," i.e., grep.
<MichaelRaskin>
quarter
<infinisil>
Note that ripgrep does some smart ignoring by default, which grep doesn't do
<infinisil>
`rg -uuu` is more grep-like
<__monty__>
infinisil: Isn't it still a significant difference?
<infinisil>
Probably yeah
<MichaelRaskin>
Just smashing together two things that often go together
<MichaelRaskin>
Which is sometimes useful.
<MichaelRaskin>
But stability is more often useful (but ripgrep has reached its own stability, sure)
<infinisil>
One thing I don't like about ripgrep is how hard it is to have nice output for pipes
<__monty__>
Often underestimated yeah.
<infinisil>
If stdout is a tty, it has colors, nice formatting with spaces, line numbers, filenames
<infinisil>
If it's not a tty, you get "<filename>: <match>", for every match
<gchristensen>
my favorite thing about ripgrep is when it matches .min.js and prints a trillion characters of output
<__monty__>
I guess you could propose a flag that forces *all* the fancy styling.
<infinisil>
You can of course turn this off, but the default annoys
<infinisil>
me
<gchristensen>
if it is at a tty doing nice stuff anyway, might as well not output a trillion character long line
<infinisil>
gchristensen: Hehe oh yeah, I'm often doing `-T js` to avoid stuff like that
<infinisil>
Or `-g '!glob-pattern'`
<joepie91>
__monty__: ripgrep with regex is orders of magnitude faster than literal match in grep, so no, it's not the regex engine :P
<__monty__>
joepie91: Does that bypass grep's regex engine?
<joepie91>
far as I know, yes
<joepie91>
I think you can actually compile grep without a regex engine and just be left with literal matches?
<samueldr>
everything that's there, and mainly things that are not there, are trying to kill you, in space
<infinisil>
Well said
<cole-h>
And maybe even things we don't even know are there!
<cole-h>
I have an existential crisis almost every time I think about space
<samueldr>
you find shade in space? gonna kill you. find light in space? probably gonna kill you. radiations? lack of just the right kind of gasses, etc
<cole-h>
The coolest thing about these launches are we have the technology to attach freaking cameras all around the ship and watch the engines, watch the Earth, watch fairings separate, etc
<infinisil>
I really hope I live long enough for space travel to be something a normal person can afford
<cole-h>
I agree. Alternatively, I would settle for the ability to be fired into the sun after I die.
<infinisil>
I personally (now at least) don't give a damn what people do with me when that happens, I'm gone after all, concsiousness forever lost, I couldn't even be angry anymore!
<__monty__>
If anyone would like to get more nervous whenever they think about space. They should read the Skyward comics.
<__monty__>
I'm not an anxious person but that series gave me anxiety.
<ldlework>
line 1200 of my 2100 line rewrite of jGo to TypeScript
<ldlework>
must... not... lose.... hope
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<joepie91>
this is incredible
<joepie91>
google translate does not recognize URLs with an @ in it
<joepie91>
Google, ladies and gentlemen
<gchristensen>
Very Web
<samueldr>
joepie91: you're thinking of e-mail addresses, URLs is the name of the doctor
<samueldr>
be careful!
<samueldr>
google translate is TERRIBLE
<samueldr>
I was translating a site, with a "zip password: xxx" and it translate "xxx" for another unrelated password!!
<samueldr>
and I've seen reports that it likes to switch dos and don'ts around
<samueldr>
because of the way it's been using "deep learning" to "deep learn" languages
<MichaelRaskin>
samueldr: I have personally seen it
<samueldr>
DO parking here
* samueldr
thinks
<samueldr>
turn left/turn right... do those look alike to you? :)
<samueldr>
I'm sure contextuallr "turn left on main street" could be translated "tourner à droite sur la rue principale"
<samueldr>
(droite is right)
<MichaelRaskin>
It was not even a truly hard case, it was just a long sentence. Not in French with its fun «ne … pas»/«ne … plus»/«… pas» tricks, just Danish sentence with a single «ikke» (not)
<MichaelRaskin>
I am not sure I can find this sentence easily, or I would check DeepL
<samueldr>
its answer might be different now anyway!
<MichaelRaskin>
True.
<MichaelRaskin>
I only hope DeepL's answer will be different from old Google's answer!
<MichaelRaskin>
(Although DeepL probably still lacks Danish)
<infinisil>
Is anybody else's nixpkgs directory littered with temporary files from development you can't be bothered to clean up?
<infinisil>
Well, or they might be important to keep, but don't know where to put them yet
<infinisil>
Because that's the case for me, my `git status` is almost never clean for nixpkgs
<aanderse>
infinisil: moreso random directories on my pc, including $HOME :S
<cole-h>
All I have is .dir-locals.el, .envrc, and a few yet-to-be-committed files
<infinisil>
I'd be interested to see how other people organize their files and folders
<infinisil>
I still haven't quite figured out a layout that works for everything
<MichaelRaskin>
Me: by backup procedures
<cole-h>
Wait, you can organize your files and folders?
<infinisil>
Heh
<infinisil>
MichaelRaskin: So e.g. you archive files via backups that haven't been needed for X amount of time?
<samueldr>
"organize"
<infinisil>
So the current state always only has recent files?
<MichaelRaskin>
Nope, not at all
<samueldr>
it starts from the same root as organically
<samueldr>
so I do it that way
<MichaelRaskin>
There is ~/src that is for VCS repos, mostly Monotone
<MichaelRaskin>
There are a couple of hierarchies that are mostly append-only and backed up by rsync
<MichaelRaskin>
There is ~/tmp that I will eventually loose and do not care too much about that
<MichaelRaskin>
Then there is /tmp that I mkfs on boot
<MichaelRaskin>
And for some reason I keep checkouts of external repos in /home/repos
<infinisil>
I see I see
<infinisil>
I can't help but feel that a tagging system might work better than folder hierarchies
<infinisil>
For the many different kinds of files I have at least
<MichaelRaskin>
Fun fact: I have a fully-fleged tagging system
<MichaelRaskin>
I… don't use it
<infinisil>
How does it work and why don't you use it?
<MichaelRaskin>
You miss the real question here: how come I still have it if I do not use it!
<MichaelRaskin>
Well…
<MichaelRaskin>
I have written a tool I call QueryFS
<MichaelRaskin>
Which allows me to write queries with the output being directory trees
<MichaelRaskin>
And of course it has plugins but mostly I get stuff out of PostgreSQL
<MichaelRaskin>
And of course I have multiple tables devoted to multiple ways of tagging (and queries providing interface to all that)
<infinisil>
So it's not for existing files in your fs, but rather for database entries, but with file-based output?
<MichaelRaskin>
Yep, and it is intended (among other workflows) for use with database entries representing files and with queries generating some symlinks
<MichaelRaskin>
And it turns out it is just simpler to check the three or four places where I could have placed the file in the first place…
<infinisil>
Imagine if all files were in a single flat directory, and you'd need to rely on tags to find them!
<infinisil>
Would need some time to adjust to that mindset, but I wonder if it would work better
<MichaelRaskin>
Nope, I tried.
<samueldr>
infinisil: try it and prove MichaelRaskin wrong :)
<MichaelRaskin>
But I might be unusually consistent in the sense that my idea where I would put something are compatible with my ideas from 5 years ago
<infinisil>
Yeah tbh I don't feel like MichaelRaskin is representative of most people :P
<MichaelRaskin>
I have heard some people are… more flexible, I guess?
<samueldr>
(I like it when people do something weird and/or out of their comfort zone)
<infinisil>
Same, I should do that more often
<MichaelRaskin>
I was completely sure that tagging is _inside_ my comfort zone
<samueldr>
and, somehow, especially like it when it's for trivial non-important things
<MichaelRaskin>
Turned out nope, and I gave up
<infinisil>
MichaelRaskin: What made you gave up? What were the problems with it?
<infinisil>
s/gave/give
<MichaelRaskin>
Tagging is more effort than just putting stuff in an hierarchy I can comfortably use later
<MichaelRaskin>
Like if I spent _any_ time on marking file for later use, it is best if I just put it into the proper tree
<MichaelRaskin>
And if I have not, well, find and grep can help
<infinisil>
Hmm
<MichaelRaskin>
I guess learning to use recoll and then writing a plugin for queries against its index _might_ sometimes be useful
<MichaelRaskin>
But normally find and grep are enough anyway…
<MichaelRaskin>
Maybe I should run pdftotext on all the PDFs I have downloaded but not put into any proper place.
<infinisil>
I'm now wondering how a great tagging interface would look like
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, I can in like 30 minutes debug a tagging interface that would be just ln -s /path/in/storage ~/queries/tagging/set/tag1/tag2/tag3
<samueldr>
I think it was joe/pie91 who had opinions and examples on tagging interfaces
<infinisil>
That doesn't look convenient at all if you have thousands of files
<MichaelRaskin>
Which sounds pretty much as natural as one can get with command-line tagging
<samueldr>
(but not command-line based)
<samueldr>
though it might have been more about setting up the taxonomy than interfaces
<MichaelRaskin>
I mean, ln is smart, you can use wildcards etc.
<infinisil>
I'm currently organizing my files with terminal commands, and I'm sick of it, takes so long, hurts my hands, etc.
<MichaelRaskin>
Use more wildcards
<infinisil>
That won't help a lot
<MichaelRaskin>
Also, organising all-at-once doesn't work
<MichaelRaskin>
You start by not letting things getting worse, and you properly organise whatever you use from the old stuff