gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
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* infinisil just wrote 100 lines of bash without running them once
<samueldr> *taps forehead* can't fail if they don't run
<infinisil> lol
<lovesegfault> lol
<infinisil> Let's see how many mistakes I made..
<joepie91> heh
<joepie91> I can do that with JS, but I'd fail hopelessly with Bash
<gchristensen> I can think of 1 off the top of my head, infinisil :P
<joepie91> "using Bash"
<infinisil> Hehe
<joepie91> but yeah, I've legitimately had cases where I wrote (or refactored) JS for weeks or months on end, without ever running the code until it was done... and then at the end I ran it, and I ended up with like 2 or 3 bugs, usually wrong assumptions in business logic too...
<infinisil> When I do that with Haskell there often isn't any bug at all!
<infinisil> static typing <3
<joepie91> infinisil: the bugs I end up with are typically bugs that a (reasonable) static typing system would not have caught either :)
<infinisil> Impressive
<joepie91> (because the bugs are in my assumptions about the intended business logic, not in the implementation)
<joepie91> the remaining bugs are typically accidental nulls, which you don't need a full-blown static typing system to prevent...
<joepie91> infinisil: there's a reason I'm convinced that correctness-through-abstraction can accomplish the same goals as a static typing system with less cost :)
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<infinisil> Can't say the same for me
<ldlework> had an idea for a game, https://i.imgur.com/EQIChvm.jpg
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<infinisil> Well the mistake count for my script is about 10, I lost count somewhere
<qyliss> Wow PipeWire looks awesome
<drakonis> yep.
<drakonis> aint gonna be having all those issues pulseaudio had when it launched
<cole-h> I keep hearing about PipeWire. I'm very tempted to try it out.
<cole-h> tbh all the audio systems are black magic to me
<cole-h> I only got JACK to work by some stroke of sheer luck
<cole-h> I should be studying, so of course I'm going to not study and instead attempt to get PipeWire working (w/ JACK at least)
<drakonis> its probably much easier with pipewire
<infinisil> This on-demand-minecraft service I made is now a bit more automatic, it uploads a custom digitalocean image by itself, with ~100 lines of bash yay
<drakonis> but bash tho?
<drakonis> its pretty much the design decision i continue to question
<infinisil> It's kind of exactly the thing I'd want to use bash for
<drakonis> ah right this is getting used to create the droplet
<drakonis> i assumed it was being run inside it
<infinisil> Oh there's bash running in the droplet itself too, don't worry!
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<drakonis> i was hoping it would run nix files inside but doesnt look like it
<cole-h> OK that was really easy
<cole-h> aur sync -c pipewire-git && doas pacman -Syu pipewire-git && systemctl enable --user pipewire.socket
<cole-h> No need to start jack manually anymore
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<pie_[bnc]> cole-h: i havent restarted in a month so i kinda forgot how to start my jjack lol...
<cole-h> I was using cadence before (exec cadence-session-start --system-start)
<pie_[bnc]> i was too but id have to do some basic initial setup iirc
<pie_[bnc]> well, i should move that inot the cadence startup scripty config field
<pie_[bnc]> *fields
<cole-h> I'm getting pretty close to having all my stuff Nix-ified. Yesterday and today was weechat and I think I'll continue working on my sway config tonight
<cole-h> Already on 426 HM generations lol
<lovesegfault> cole-h: how did you do weechat?
<lovesegfault> 426 is pretty good, I'm only at 529
<cole-h> Just moved my weechat folder to (my) nixpkgs/modules/weechat/weechat-conf and have an activation script to link it out lol
<cole-h> Not really using Nix to the best of its abilities there
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<cole-h> Is there a difference between the &> redirection and >file 2>&1?
<ashkitten> qyliss: i don't really care about flatpak but a replacement for pulseaudio would be really nice... does that blog post imply that it can be used with jack patchbay applications? i've been looking for something like that for pulse for ages
<cole-h> ashkitten: If you mean patchbay apps like carla, yeah it works (or seems to work)
<infinisil> Argh I spent all night improving my system config
<ashkitten> cole-h: nice!!
<ashkitten> cole-h: do you know if it's ready to be used with nixos?
<ashkitten> it looks like there's a pipewire option
<cole-h> ashkitten: No idea. I would personally wait until pipewire 0.3 lands (it's part of the gnome update now) since apparently that might be necessary for jack support?
<cole-h> idk (and I also don't use NixOS lol)
<drakonis> im waiting for it
<ashkitten> ah i see
<cole-h> #81626 is where worldofpeace moved it to
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/81626 (by hedning, 2 days ago, open): Gnome 3.36
<cole-h> Also worldofpeace: notice a difference? https://paste.rs/CxJ.jpg (might need to reword that commit message -- it should be -> 0.3.0)
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<cole-h> 👀
<cole-h> qyliss: Curious how you deal with secrets. My solution is to have a git-crypt'd subrepo of them and just link them out in a custom activation script :-)
<ashkitten> i should do something like that
<qyliss> cole-h: I just set them up manually on each machine
<qyliss> There's barely any of them
<cole-h> Oh, okay
<qyliss> My mail password, and my bouncer password, and I think that's it?
<cole-h> Ah, slightly different because I have no bouncer setup
<qyliss> well, I'd treat a network SASL password the same way
<qyliss> I guess if I had a different password for each of the four networks I'm connected to it would be mildly annoying to set up, but not especially so.
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<lovesegfault> Am I the only one who does ls and then ctrl+l nervously when I cd into a dir and am still think what to do
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<ashkitten> lovesegfault: what does that accomplish?
<cole-h> Always ls (or exa, as it is aliased to), not always Ctrl+l
<cole-h> ashkitten: Trying to remember what you were going to do :P
<lovesegfault> ashkitten: it's just a habit
<ashkitten> ah
<lovesegfault> I also save the file 6000 times before exiting vim
<qyliss> I can confirm from pairing that lots of people do this
<ashkitten> i've developed a bad habit of using zsh's very nice completion instead of ls
<qyliss> (the ls thing)
<qyliss> I don't think I do
<cole-h> I just ZZ to save-quit vim
<ashkitten> the issue being, zsh's completion goes away once i type a command
<cole-h> qyliss++
<{^_^}> qyliss's karma got increased to 36
<worldofpeace> cole-h: I opened it for hedning to move into our GNOME PR. I actually borked the version number in several places
<worldofpeace> maybe comment so it can be fixed in the next interactive rebase
<worldofpeace> Note, we can't merge it to master because ti will break mutter etc.
<cole-h> OK, will do
<lovesegfault> worldofpeace: I'm so close to fully reproducible systems
<lovesegfault> I found some issue with home-manager now
<worldofpeace> lovesegfault: home-manager would be the most likely source of this
<lovesegfault> yeah
<lovesegfault> I'll show you the issue
<lovesegfault> I'm breaking my head trying to solve it
<worldofpeace> I'll take a look 😀
<lovesegfault> I think this is the culprit
<lovesegfault> I tried to fix it like this:
<lovesegfault> but it exploded
<lovesegfault> infinite recursion encountered, at /nix/store/jvs7dbbyimlq86qfz448kvgmi0nnxhkr-source/lib/attrsets.nix:344:7
<worldofpeace> lovesegfault: I believe what you want is just pkgs
<lovesegfault> infinite recursion encountered, at /nix/store/jvs7dbbyimlq86qfz448kvgmi0nnxhkr-source/lib/attrsets.nix:344:7
<lovesegfault> same think :(
<lovesegfault> s/nk/ng/
<worldofpeace> _pkgs = import pkgs (
<worldofpeace> );
<worldofpeace> filterAttrs (n: v: v != null) config.nixpkgs
* lovesegfault tries
<lovesegfault> it's evil
<worldofpeace> lovesegfault: this commit message makes me think maybe this isn't a problem https://github.com/rycee/home-manager/commit/244d7953252617073a83b95ffc4dd1f6e1fae803
<worldofpeace> so in your setup _pkgs doesn't get evaluated
<worldofpeace> How are you pinning without using a nix shell setting NIX_PATH?
<lovesegfault> let me show you
<lovesegfault> it's evil
<lovesegfault> worldofpeace: I'm using niv, check this out:
<lovesegfault> ❯ NIX_PATH= nix-build -A home.foucault
<lovesegfault> error: file 'nixpkgs' was not found in the Nix search path (add it using $NIX_PATH or -I), at /nix/store/pk81mh4djhpzbf5jqbgnfspn1517zckk-source/modules/misc/nixpkgs.nix:52:18 <lovesegfault> this is with no patches in home-manager <lovesegfault> which is what caused me to start digging <worldofpeace> lovesegfault: ooh that's cool. I actually use niv in the same way but with the nix-shell. though it seems to have broke recently with my direnv use_nix thingy <lovesegfault> Yeah, I'm tryin to get rid of NIX_PATH entirely <worldofpeace> lol, basically flakes <lovesegfault> file 'nixpkgs' was not found in the Nix search path (add it using$NIX_PATH or -I), at /nix/store/pk81mh4djhpzbf5jqbgnfspn1517zckk-source/modules/misc/nixpkgs.nix:52:18
<lovesegfault> I am convinced that is the culprit
<worldofpeace> Those are some nice bash functions. I think flakes with nixos-rebuild will have a similar thing but from hostname *to figure out the machine
<lovesegfault> Yeah, I'm very excited for flakes :D
<lovesegfault> Yeah
<lovesegfault> I don't even fully understand what it's trying to do
<worldofpeace> Yeah, me neither. You should probably open a bug referencing that PR and then showing how you want to use home-manager
<worldofpeace> it's evil
* lovesegfault cries
<worldofpeace> 😸
<lovesegfault> I was so close
<worldofpeace> lovesegfault: hmm, though I didn't look what this modules.defaultPriority was
<lovesegfault> cc. clever on the above discussion
<worldofpeace> lovesegfault: it said it needed https://github.com/rycee/home-manager/pull/992/files too
<lovesegfault> yeah, that got rebased
<lovesegfault> rycee tends to rebase and close the PR
<lovesegfault> oh, looks like flokli has met this beast before!
<worldofpeace> lol, we found the same issue
<worldofpeace> this looks like it might be the hope you were looking for
<lovesegfault> Yeah :D
<lovesegfault> I'm not sure how to plug that into my thing
<worldofpeace> lovesegfault: the example seems to (maybe?) just set it in your home-manager user option
<lovesegfault> yeah, but I don't even know where that option lives
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<ashkitten> worldofpeace: i have these lines because of that issue and also because iirc nix-build and stuff don't use overlays from the system configuration: https://github.com/ashkitten/nixos-config/blob/master/home-manager/default.nix#L4-L10
<ashkitten> i wish nix-build and co had options to override overlays.nix and configuration.nix temporarily though, it's caused me issues in the past trying to test things from nixpkgs
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<infinisil> ashkitten: Like --arg overlays []?
<ashkitten> oh
<ashkitten> that makes sense
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<infinisil> (That works for nix-build's from the nixpkgs root)
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<eyJhb> Wondering if there is a tool, to find the "backbone" of a specific topic e.g. the book that is used as initial quote for most articles and so on
<eyJhb> (trying to find a good book for psychology)
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<__monty__> I think Freud and Jung are still the seminal works in psychology.
<eyJhb> Yeah, that is also what I am considering. Considering if I should get a hold of someone at Uni (the pros of still being a student)
<__monty__> Probably. I assume Freud and Jung are a bit long in the tooth. Afaik psychometrics wasn't a big thing back then.
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<eyJhb> Yeah, that is what I read about them as well __monty__
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<emily> freud was kind of a charlatan (which is not to say he was not fonudational)
<infinisil> TIL that TOML doesn't have null
<aanderse> infinisil: i just did a ctrl+f "DynamicUser" in RFC 42 rendered and saw no results... for some reason i thought you were discussing DynamicUser usage in that rfc
<aanderse> was there some other place you had been discussing dynamic user?
<infinisil> Yeah rfcs#52 :)
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/52 (by Infinisil, 26 weeks ago, merged): [RFC 0052] Away from static IDs
<aanderse> ah there we go
<aanderse> i've seen at least 2 or 3 PRs either reverting or intending to revert a change to DynamicUser, and i've seen quite a few services that were explicitly not converted because one use case prevented it
<aanderse> i think there are a number of cases where users can make an argument (for better or for worse) that in their one unique situation dynamicuser won't work
<infinisil> That's fine, DynamicUser is a good default for being as restrictive as possible, but if that doesn't work it doesn't have to be used
<infinisil> And due to its restrictive nature, changing this should be backwards compatible
<aanderse> it is unfortunate if a nixos module doesn't get to use dynamicuser because of one nixos user
<aanderse> i'm wondering how much work it is to make it configurable
<infinisil> Configurable how?
<aanderse> if a nixos module presented sysadmins the option to not run a service as dynamic user, easily configurable through the modules options
<infinisil> Hm, I guess setting systemd.services.foo.serviceConfig.DynamicUser = true might work
<aanderse> the option doesn't have to be called "useDynamicUser"... but some (well documented) option might imply the service will not use dynamic user
<aanderse> infinisil: that could be it, but i think many of our modules would need to be "fixed" to support that
<infinisil> Although you also have to clear the User/Group setting from static users, otherwise DynamicUser won't do its dynamic thing
<infinisil> Yeah
<__monty__> This is pretty off-topic, are you sure #nixos-dev isn't a better place to discuss?
<aanderse> similar to how modules only provision a user if the default isn't changed, maybe some logic can be written around that...
<aanderse> i was testing mysql out as dynamic user the other day, it works great
<aanderse> i don't think a change like that would be accepted, or if it was i'm almost sure eventually it would be reverted - because some random user with some random use case has a workflow broken by dynamic user
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<__monty__> Could anyone tell me what rngd.service is and why it always fails to start on my machine?
<__monty__> eyJhb: Yeah, I meant more, should I care about the service failing and can it even work on old (pentium) hardware?
<__monty__> Like an ELI5 : )
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<__monty__> I'm not sure I'd even want to run it. No reason to compromise /dev/random's randomness to speed it up.
<eyJhb> __monty__: what... what kind of HW are you running?
<__monty__> A latitude D400
<eyJhb> __monty__: specs?
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<__monty__> Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.60GHz, 512MB RAM.
<__monty__> Though meminfo lists total memory as ~440MB.
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<eyJhb> __monty__: is that your main driver?
<__monty__> No, thank god. Can't even get firefox running on it.
<__monty__> It's the only laptop I have though.
<eyJhb> So normally you use a desktop ?
<eyJhb> Makes sense, I had a customer with such a laptop. The HDD died
<__monty__> Yes, an iMac that's not that much more recent.
<__monty__> I'm stuck with it because my T400 died. Presumably a GPU issue.
<emily> Pentium != Pentium M
<emily> they just resurrected the Pentium brand at various points for low-end CPUs
<emily> though actually I guess Pentium M predates Core I think?
<__monty__> I think it does.
<__monty__> I did assume it shared the pentium architecture though.
<__monty__> But didn't real pentium predate pentium M?
<emily> yeah
<emily> pentium M was after either p3 or p4
<emily> not sure which
<__monty__> So old (pentium) still applies, no?
<emily> I guess, but if you say Pentium I'm kinda assuming the <1 GHz stuff in 90s desktop PCs ^^
<eyJhb> ^^^ same
<eyJhb> Also Pentrium before Core
<__monty__> Oh, so you're saying I should shut up because my hardware's so modern? >.<
<eyJhb> s/Pentrium/Pentium/ :p - Yes!
<eyJhb> So modern! \jk
<eyJhb> I thought mine was old... But it is from 2012. But I am hoping it can do 5+ years
<infinisil> Did I ever mention how much I dislike github doing the fake loading thing and messing up browser reloads/history?
<infinisil> I know I did, but I just wanted to point it out again
<infinisil> Because I hate it
<eyJhb> infinisil: you love it?
<eyJhb> Like, teasing the cute girl at school, but really being in love with her?
<infinisil> No!
<__monty__> For all its flaws it's still my favorite social network : )
<eyJhb> infinisil: I am 100% I said that too, when confronted about it!
<eyJhb> infinisil and Github sitting in a tree, K.I.S.S.I.N.G!
<infinisil> AHHHH
<infinisil> __monty__: I'd have to put IRC in front of GH :)
<eyJhb> infinisil: But once you become a adult, then it is frowned upon :( Reminds me
<eyJhb> I have this idea of creating a project with the ability of managing issues on Gitlab/Github as a git repo
<__monty__> eyJhb: Might wanna look into projects like Fossil that already do similar things.
<eyJhb> __monty__: does it work with GH/GL issues?
<eyJhb> Not sure I am on the correct site
<__monty__> No, but I'm sure there's similar projects that try to do that.
<eyJhb> Haven't been able to find any sadly :/
<__monty__> Fossil makes them actually part of the repo. That's not possible with github, best you could hope for is bots that keep the repo and the site in sync.
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<__monty__> Since when are github diffs side-by-side?
<gchristensen> there is a toggle somewhere on the page
<__monty__> I can't find it : (
<__monty__> I'm not talking about rich diffs.
<__monty__> Oh, it's the gear.
<__monty__> Thanks!
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<__monty__> Anyone know whether there's a faster way to check on a unit than journalctl -eu or systemctl status? They take like 15 min on that pentium.
<andi-> __monty__: restrict the lines with -n 100 or so
<andi-> usually that is a lot faster then asking it for the full journal since whenever
<__monty__> I can't figure out how to pass -n, -eun 20, -eu -n 20, -eu -n20 gave various different invalid argument errors >.<
<__monty__> And --lines=20 results in an error about escaping.
<__monty__> I guess it needs to follow, not precede the service name?
<__monty__> Not looking to be much better though : /
<srk> make it Storage=volatile
<cransom> -u is expecting a unit
<cransom> -eu <unit> -n 20 would work.
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<__monty__> cransom: Ah, of course >.< That's what I ended up doing but it's not any faster. Still takes longer than I'm prepared to look at.
<__monty__> srk: I don't want to risk losing the logs though.
<__monty__> I was hopping I can simply grep a file or something.
<srk> if you forward to syslog :)
<__monty__> Does anyone use the borgbackup service? I've changed my configuration.nix but the old units still seem to be in effect.
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<gchristensen> oh man I'm writing a PR description and I'm getting excited about pressing "Submit" from the description
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<__monty__> gchristensen: Discussion of self-gratifying internet behavior's frowned upon here.
<gchristensen> lol
<samueldr> when I comb in a linux config file, I wonder actually how much of the kernel config is network-related
<samueldr> it always seems like it never stops
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<eyJhb> Is it just a rule for cats to jump on stuff, especially after you have said no to them?
<{^_^}> nixops#1245 (by grahamc, 1 minute ago, open): Deploy Targets: Policy/Behavior-free Deployment Hooks (auto-rollbacks, drain events, etc.)
<__monty__> eyJhb: Cats will jump all over your shit unless you give them a little throne of their own that's higher than all your shit.
<eyJhb> __monty__: but she has her own little throne which is MUCH higher than the box to my handheld drill..
<__monty__> Then you should tell your cat she's not being a proper cat.
<eyJhb> She is pretty dumb.. And defiant.. E.g. *cat biting my shoelaces* "Elsa! No!" *looks at me, then back at the shoelace, bites it and SPRINTS*
<colemickens> Our cat lays near our phones and chargers if they are laying out. IDK if it's because she knows we like them, see's us sleep, sit, lay with them, or if she's jealous of us touching them instead of her (she definitely was when she was a kitten).
<colemickens> eyJhb what kind of cat?
<eyJhb> colemickens: maybe because they get warmer as well?
<colemickens> eyJhb: ours is tortoise shell, we were told she would be onery and she has learned some special annoying skills to get us up in the morning to feed her, especially if we sleep in.
<eyJhb> She is a lilac masked sacred birman :p
<colemickens> eyJhb: maybe, but she'll do it even when they're in battery save mode, and does it to the TV remote too...
<eyJhb> We started to ignore her if she tried any shit in the morning, and it worked. What does your cat do? (also, Elsa has food out all the time)
<colemickens> She will bite at my partners glasses, bat them off the night stand
<colemickens> stand on the night stand, pull back the metallic window curtians and jump between the curtain and window and paw at the shade rattling it
<eyJhb> That is a 10/10 annoying ahbbit
<eyJhb> habbit*
<eyJhb> She does it as well with curtains etc, but we keep a spray bottle near
<eyJhb> But the little shit has figured out if she jumps up on the chair under the table we cannot hit her with it..
<samueldr> a tip that helped with my cat's habits: don't make it a punishment from you, but make the environment inhospitable for their habits
<colemickens> I kind of forgot we had the bottles. When she was younger though, at the end, she had built up a bit of tolerance to the squirt bottle. It'd be kind of hilarious to see what she thinks.
<samueldr> it doesn't need to be permanent, just for long enough that the cat will lose interest
<eyJhb> samueldr: Doing that as much as I can, but it is hard making a USB charging cable inhospitable for her.. :(
<eyJhb> colemickens: our solution was just to make it "spray harder"
<colemickens> The other day, I got up, fed her, and then followed her, meowing at her over and over, but then she thought it was a game and was annoyed that I went back to bed.
<eyJhb> Then she spends a couple of minutes licking herself
<eyJhb> My potential partner (???) hates when I get up in the night to pee for that reason colemickens. Because then the cat starts making her teakettle sounds
<colemickens> Yep. If we sleep til 7:15, that's feedign time and that's fine and that's when she'll start
<colemickens> But if you're up after 5 at any time... then yeah, it must be morning, time for food, it's over.
<eyJhb> Why not a automatic feeder?
<colemickens> I am trying to teach her by coming out of my office, saying "not yet" and holding up 1 or 2 or 3 fingers depending on how close it is to meal time. She seems to be starting to give up for a while, at least, rather than meowing all the time. She seems to understand it's not that I've forgotten, because we do (it's very rare though, not enough that she's ever at risk of real hunger).
<colemickens> I've thought about it, especially in my home automation kit, but it's definitely a bonding thing.
<colemickens> She meows a lot and waits for permission when she's fed. I think she favors my partner a bit because he always feeds her. Seems impersonal to have a machine do it?
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<eyJhb> colemickens: well, yeah, but I just enjoy having the freedom of not having to feed her
<eyJhb> I don't have a automatic feeder, instead she has food all the time. And as long as she can manage it, it stays taht way
<colemickens> But I've thought about setting up some sort of overly-simplistic clock so she can sort of know when it's coming? :P I think she could understand, she's smart.
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<eyJhb> What race?
<colemickens> Ha, we used to try to do that, she was okay for a while but turned piggy :P And then after friends watched her for a summer, we had to go on diet.
<colemickens> idk how cat races work, all I know is american short-hair tortosie shell?
<eyJhb> Ahh, makes sense. Sh ecurrently weights like 2.4 kg.. Soo..
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<colemickens> lol, I uploaded an img to imgur, then 3 seconds later it got deleted?
<colemickens> I really shouldn't use them anyway but feel weird giving google links too
<__monty__> Our cat was fine with round the clock food but she had plenty of space to move in. Mostly outdoors.
<colemickens> like, this URL has more characters than most childrens short stories
<colemickens> I feel like that's IRC spam to even send.
<gchristensen> lol
<colemickens> anyway, she's decided that when we actually eat at our dining table that she feels very left out
<cransom> especially spammy since it's broken into multiple lines
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<eyJhb> colemickens: I can't even open it because of the multiline :p
<eyJhb> What was the shortcut for weechat to display everything is text and not break things?
<colemickens> here we go down the rabbit hole of finding out what introduced line breaks, my matrix client, matrix, the irc bridge....
<colemickens> maybe just your IRC clients?
<gchristensen> it was just too long
<eyJhb> colemickens: IRC spec I assume
<cole-h> I don't have a monitor capable of displaying 1000 characters in a single line :P
<qyliss> IRC messages can only be 500 bytes or so, including overhead of variable length
<colemickens> oh right, well now I feel even sillier, oh well
<joepie91> yeah, IRC bridge probably broke it up because it exceeded the line length limit of the IRC server
<cole-h> Gist the link and post the gist here :P
<joepie91> eyJhb: ha, "spec"
<joepie91> implying there is such a thing :P
<eyJhb> "guidelines"
<eyJhb> :p
<joepie91> qyliss: it's configurable actually!
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<joepie91> and varies by IRC network
<joepie91> or well, maybe "configurable" is not entirely the right word for "IRC is not really specced, more just organically grown, and everyone implements it differently"....
<samueldr> I wonder if it always was, as per the initial RFC, or if it came along the way
<samueldr> (always was configurable)
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<joepie91> samueldr: there... isn't exactly an "initial RFC"
<joepie91> the protocol predates the RFC by many, many years
<joepie91> which is why the RFC states that it's basically just documentation of common practices, and not actually a spec
<samueldr> I meant the first RFC that documents those practices, obviously
<joepie91> it's a bit like CSV in that sense
<samueldr> the 1993 RFC states messages (as in client/server messages) should not exceed 512 characters [probably ill-defined bytes] including the terminating CRLF
<colemickens> ill-defined bytes, they're actually 7 bit bytes
<__monty__> They're specifically ASCII characters?
<samueldr> >> No specific character set is specified
<samueldr> though it's eight bits based
<eyJhb> colemickens: Still need to figure out how to open the link :p
<colemickens> let's stick with the spam theme: https://tinyurl.com/rshzuy5
<eyJhb> Oh, I ended up using my logs :p
<eyJhb> But looks like a cutie
<cole-h> Very cute cat
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<eyJhb> Lets see if this Gitlab pages work with the ... half assed code I made
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<eyJhb> Damn, the paths are all wrong... I need better path handling in general
<emily> I can't believe it, ed25519 FIDO2 ssh keys actually work :D
<emily> begone, foul gpg-agent!
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<cole-h> 👀
<emily> (consumer yubikeys actually suport ed25519 these days!)
<emily> (and you can PIN-protect your key!)
<viric> that's for new yubikeys, or old can be firmware-upgraded?
<eyJhb> Some short videos are weird https://youtu.be/eUgrVCDUCtE?t=612
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<eyJhb> "My child solved \pi"
<colemickens> I was reading a tutorial that that still requires maintaining a separate text file that you must use with the hadrware token, is that true?
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<gchristensen> colemickens: yeah
<gchristensen> and the servers have to support it too
<emily> 22:32 <viric> that's for new yubikeys, or old can be firmware-upgraded?
<emily> new :(
<emily> they don't support firmware updates
<emily> there are good and bad reasons for that
<emily> imo it's more secure in theory, probably less secure in practice
<emily> it just so happens to double up as a nice business model for them
<gchristensen> eh? my not-new yubikey supports it just fine
<emily> with ed25519? I doubt it
<emily> it also won't support -O resident / ssh-add -K unless your key has FIDO2 support
<emily> which implies recent or blue
<emily> curve25519 came in august 2019: https://twitter.com/lambdakitten/status/1233154642667802625
<gchristensen> https://marc.info/?l=openssh-unix-dev&m=157259802529972&w=2 is what I made on my oldish yubikey
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<gchristensen> I think it is from ~2017-ish
<emily> "ecdsa"
<gchristensen> yeah
<gchristensen> ohh got it
<gchristensen> cool
<emily> but yeah, it works with all u2f tokens
<emily> the resident key thing avoids you needing a separate private key
<emily> which is nice
<gchristensen> very nice
<emily> (you can PIN-protect it with FIDO2)
<emily> relatedly, does anyone know why ssh-agent would be prompting for a key passphrase (with ssh askpass) for every connection?? o_O
<emily> very weird considering the key shows up in ssh-add -L and is therefore presumably unencrypted in memory
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