gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
<gchristensen> my system's new nvme drive just arrived, and I'm half dreading having to do a reinstall, half excited to be able to make its root erase on each boot
<cole-h> Gonna stream it? :P
<gchristensen> hah, uh...
<gchristensen> but then you'd know my password was "admin"
<cole-h> I already knew that
<cole-h> >:)
<gchristensen> oh
<aanderse> day 23 of lockdown: livestreaming a nvme drive is the new bar for entertainment
<aanderse> >_<
<gchristensen> lol well given the history of when I open this case ..... it is apparently somewhat entertaining
<gchristensen> blood may be shed, fires may be lit
<gchristensen> it is an xpg sx8200 pro, which was exactly the same price as the samsung evo of the same size
<gchristensen> it comes with a "DIY Heatsink" which appears to be made of plastic
<cole-h> Now I really want to see this streamed
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<gchristensen> sigh, I can't get in to the bios setup anymore, it seems, because my HBA cards seem to take it over
<samueldr> don't forget to spread mayonnaise between the heatsink and the drive!
<gchristensen> good point!
<danderson> hmm, how's arm64 support these days...
<danderson> (context: AWS graviton seems like a significant cost savings, at the small price of "switch your entire OS to arm64")
<drakonis> oho, i wanna play some krastorio now
<danderson> I'm hosting a krastorio2 game the last couple of days, although I haven't had time to play myself
<danderson> it looks amazing
<gchristensen> danderson: pretty good, we have between ~100 and ~500 cores building arm based on the day
<danderson> yowzers
<gchristensen> ~100 is our baseline, since one of the machines has 96 cores
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<gchristensen> oh man, beautiful, I have console access remotely and booting ipxe. I can do this reinstall properly: from the comfort of my couch
<thefloweringash> what's the hardware providing the remote console?
<gchristensen> the motherboard is an AsRock Rack thing
<cole-h> You might even call it... AsRack
<cole-h> 😎
<gchristensen> :)
<thefloweringash> do those things still use java?
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<gchristensen> html5 canvas :)
<thefloweringash> ah, so much nicer than my old thing. I got so annoyed with it I reversed engineered the protocol and make a proxy to standard vnc
<gchristensen> :o
<gchristensen> sigh, it doesn't work well enough and I'm back in my basement trying to get it working
<gchristensen> I just want to install NixOS in a room warmer than 55F ;_;
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<samueldr> 12°C, balmy!
<gchristensen> yeah but upstairs I have a blanket and a fire
<samueldr> you had a fire downstair, be careful what you ask for
<gchristensen> good point
<cole-h> samueldr++ LOL
<{^_^}> samueldr's karma got increased to 190
<samueldr> this is just all levels of amazing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAPt_DcWAvw
<cole-h> samueldr: Soon you'll be able to get 8 stickers and 2 T-shirts from gchristensen ;^)
<gchristensen> is there a way to know what tty device I'm on?
<cole-h> The `tty` command? Or are you asking something different
<gchristensen> oh cool
<gchristensen> hey wait why do I have so many ...
<cole-h> There's also `w` and `who` which show similar information
* gchristensen reboots in to the new installation
<gchristensen> oh dang, I forgot to mount /nix :)
<cole-h> Oops
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<gchristensen> it seems if I reboot it, the SOL thing stops working
<gchristensen> which isn't really the point??
<danderson> aww, not pixiecore
<danderson> (I can tell because the URLs aren't bonkers)
<danderson> (man I need to rewrite pixiecore someday)
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<gchristensen> what futurama character shoudl I name this new system after? it used to be Ogden
<gchristensen> kif it is
<cole-h> I like how we all have naming schemes for our devices
<ashkitten> my naming scheme is "help i used to have a naming scheme and then one day i was tired"
<cole-h> I'm really confused why enabling ssh support in `.gnupg/gpg-agent.conf` causes `git push` to fail, and disabling it prompts me for my password as expected...
<cole-h> ashkitten: :D
<ashkitten> my server is named steve though, which is a fantastic name for a server
<cole-h> ashkitten: It helps if you have literature (broadly; includes TV, movies, etc) that you really enjoy :)
<cole-h> "Steve the Server" has a nice ring to it
<ashkitten> yes
<ashkitten> so does "Fucko the Laptop"
<ashkitten> apparently
<cole-h> HAHA
<cole-h> That caught me off-guard
<ashkitten> C:
<danderson> lol
<danderson> my naming scheme is stars, but specifically this one weird-ass list here and nothing else: https://www.naic.edu/~gibson/starnames/starnames.html
<danderson> out of that I have atlas, vega, algol, nemesis, sirius-{a,b}, iris. Emeritus: castor, pollux, procyon, altair, asterope, pleione
<gchristensen> nice
<samueldr> ringo?
<danderson> I can milk that for a while, though admittedly for a datacenter I'd have to switch to just pulling stuff out of the Gaia star catalog
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<danderson> "I'm logging into gaia-4529100600557973888 now"
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<danderson> how's that for a scalable naming scheme! Do you have more IoT devices than visible stars in the galaxy? Didn't think so, checkmate
<danderson> bonus: the Gaia catalog gives you their position, so you can draw constellations with your computers
<danderson> or plot them on a galaxy and pretend it's a stargate network
<danderson> ... I'm fun at parties
<gchristensen> haha
<gchristensen> though with BYOD those constellations will be modern art
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<cole-h> My naming scheme is: devices get locations from the Cosmere (Brandon Sanderson's universe basically), and users get people from that universe.
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<lovesegfault> cole-h: did you move to NixOS?
<cole-h> lovesegfault: It's not spring break yet >:(
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<gchristensen> okay I actually don't like github actions much
<MichaelRaskin> Mwahaha
<gchristensen> the UI is bad, and it sort of feels anti-trust
<MichaelRaskin> What about GitHub doesn't???
<gchristensen> lol right true
<gchristensen> Microsoft sure is Embracing OSS, eh?
<MichaelRaskin> I wonder how many trolls are needed to temporary block someone just by bogus reports.
<MichaelRaskin> I don't keep track, what of the useful stuff is still not migratable by Gitlab's project ingestion?
<tilpner> ofborg integration
<MichaelRaskin> Well, this is not stuff but process
<MichaelRaskin> I wonder about the cost of a data backup
<joepie91> gchristensen: it's a bit shocking really, how many people seem to have already forgotten about EEE
<joepie91> and are uncritically lauding Microsoft's involvement in all sorts of open-source things (but conveniently mainly those things that pull people into their platform)
<gchristensen> joepie91: IMO we must take advantage but be ready for it to become inconvenient and unhealthy at any moment
<joepie91> we're honestly not in that position right now, that strategy only works when the bulk of OSS people are cognizant of this
<joepie91> which, well, as far as I can tell they are not
<gchristensen> "we're" as a whole?
<gchristensen> like, the oss world as a whole?
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<joepie91> yeah
<srk> I'm looking at some alternatives like git-bug or git-appraise
<srk> git-appraise looks interesting as it has review features as well
<gchristensen> yeah
<srk> for github actions alternative is already there -> hooks
<MichaelRaskin> For Nix specifically, doesn't integrating with GitHub instead of extending Hydra look like refusal to dogfood?
<srk> would anyone be interested in websocket API feed of nixpkgs commits?
<joepie91> on), and they are *also* usually big monolithic things where it is very difficult to reuse parts of them for other purposes...
<joepie91> gchristensen: as an aside, I'm also not that convinced that there *is* much to take advantage of. the "open-source" projects developed by big tech companies are more often than not projects with little value to the public commons, in my experience; because they are usually built either to solve their own problems (which most people do not have) or to lead people into their platform (which you don't want to be dependent
<joepie91> srk: yes, but SSE may be easier
<srk> joepie91: SSE?
<joepie91> had to search for the link :P
<srk> thanks, my instant search didn't find anything relevant
<joepie91> srk: it's more or less a formalization of the "trickle bits of data to the client through a long-running connection" trick that's been used for quite some time, but as a proper native browser API with reconnects, and it's simpler to work with and reason about when your usecase is push-only
<joepie91> it's also trivial to implement support for in just about any other environment
<srk> I see, thanks for the explanation
<srk> like websockets are easy with haskell as well but if this is better for push-only I'll take a look
<joepie91> srk: right, with "easy" in this case I mean on a protocol level, not a library level :)
<MichaelRaskin> joepie91: well, I guess it might be a good idea to abuse whatever free hosting you could get but deploy infrastructure-independent stuff only
<srk> indeed, SSE looks just like long running HTTP connections
<joepie91> websocket support, while fairly widely available, differs a lot in supported versions/features across environments, so if you are trying to provide a public API it can make sense to pick the option that's easiest to implement (in the worst case of no libraries being available) while still meeting requirements
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<srk> or implement both, right
<joepie91> MichaelRaskin: unfortunately there's generally a (potential) privacy cost for infrastructure
<joepie91> srk: yeah
<joepie91> if you can do both, do both :)
<srk> will do
<MichaelRaskin> joepie91: yes but depends; for things that they are known to already scrape, privacy cost might be nonzero (because of cheaper client device identification) but lower
<joepie91> srk: sorry, I'm used to answering questions in #Node.js where any "just support both" answer typically has to be preceded by "first, you should rearchitect your code so that it is data-oriented and not imperative...." :D
<joepie91> I guess the Haskell ecosystem has that issue less
<joepie91> but yeah, hence why I usually default to the "pick one" approach :P
<srk> :))
<srk> well with haskell almost everything is data oriented
<srk> in this case (miso application) common data types are even shared between ghc/ghcjs
<srk> which makes stuff way easier, you only write html rendering once and so on. no way to mismatch front/back-end
<joepie91> right
<joepie91> it's annoying, all the tools to do this sort of thing are there in JS
<joepie91> but people insist on bringing their habits from C++/PHP/etc. with them
<joepie91> Python also
<MichaelRaskin> Real programmers can write Fortran code in any language
<srk> hehe, well I don't quite like that imperative programming is the default
<srk> feels way more abstract than just concept of functions
<srk> and compilers
<MichaelRaskin> Well, if you consider computers as things that do something, then imperative is less abstract
<srk> it's not, I consider computers compilers :)
<MichaelRaskin> (but of course with modern hardware it is a mistake to assume that C is low level enough and it is a mistake to assume assembly is low level enough)
<joepie91> srk: I usually explain it with something along the lines of "it's much better to tell the system your intentions rather than giving it instructions; if you tell it your intentions, then *it* can figure out the best way to get there, and your code ends up easier to understand too"
<srk> joepie91: yeah, because you can do optimizations of the AST more effectively :D
<MichaelRaskin> A smart enough compiler can optimise the code written by rested well enough programmer very well. Too bad neither exists
<joepie91> srk: compilers and ASTs etc. are foreign concepts to a lot of people though, so explaining anything with those concepts is not useful unless you know that it's in someone's background
<srk> sure!
<joepie91> "intentions" is something that people intuitively understand
<srk> hah, looks like miso supports SSE directly https://github.com/dmjio/miso#sse
<pie_[bnc]> do you guys know any multi user flowchart apps
<gchristensen> a couple weeks ago I pointed a webcam at my whiteboard and did a video call ...
<pie_[bnc]> i had a whiteboard but then things happened
<pie_[bnc]> i guess if i really wanted i could do tablet + drawpile
<pie_[bnc]> but i was hoping something i coul get other people to use easily, anyway im overcomplicatig this
<pie_[bnc]> like, i wanted something where i could drag nodes around instead of be left with whatever mess and have to redo it in single player :D
<pie_[bnc]> but maybe thats fine
<MichaelRaskin> Shared VNC into a server with VUE
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<MichaelRaskin> By the way, pie_…
<MichaelRaskin> Maybe comment in the RFC PR with something about your plans about having time to integrate the suggested-edits and do a fresh rereading pass?
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<Church-> Hmm, should try setting up k8s on my nixOS machines
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<ashkitten> augh why is webkitgtk still depended on
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<ottidmes> ashkitten: nix-store --query --tree /run/current-system/sw and then type /webkitgtk ?
<__monty__> arianvp: I have a bug report for Wire. (Is there a more proper channel?) MacOS notifications have started showing html escapes, 3.12.3490, Wire for Web 2020.03.23.1558.
<arianvp> I'll forward it :)
<__monty__> Thanks.
<viric> network question...
<__monty__> I'm only noticing this recently btw. Could it be because of the Wire for Web component updating?
<viric> If I send to a multicast address, does the packet get sent to all interfaces?
<viric> ohhh setsockotp On-link 331
<viric> On-link 281
<viric> oops.
<viric> On-link 281
<viric> setsockopt IP_MULTICAST_IF is the thing
<arianvp> __monty__: probably yes. the wrapper and the app itself are updated independently
<pie_[bnc]> MichaelRaskin: you gotta fully tab complete me to get me highlighted because i all my stuff isnt configured
<pie_[bnc]> MichaelRaskin: sorry for being an additional snail on this ill put it on my list for tomorrow or something
<MichaelRaskin> I do understand that a lot of stuff always competes for attention, it is perfectly fine to just say you are definitely busy till …
<MichaelRaskin> (I do know that this claim does not unambiguosly promise you will not be busy afterwards…)
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<gchristensen> we're in the top 2,000 teams: https://stats.foldingathome.org/team/236565
<cransom> https://stats.foldingathome.org/team/227388 but are you in the top 1000? :)
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<pie_[bnc]> MichaelRaskin: it shouldnt be a big deal to just add some changes tbh
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<MichaelRaskin> I mean, different people want to allocate different amount of energy to reread when editing.
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<pie_[bnc]> uhh anyone know about using vidyo desktop on nixos, or if theres a web clien
<pie_[bnc]> looks like theres something in here, not sure why its not in nixpkgs https://github.com/glasserc/nixpkgs-mozilla/tree/master/pkgs/VidyoDesktop
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<pie_[bnc]> or something
<arianvp> oh I should add myself to the pool
<arianvp> I im currently rank 65
<arianvp> nixos is only 1911
<arianvp> :P
<gchristensen> arianvp: how are you 65? :o
<arianvp> We're team 9
<arianvp> dutch computer forum
<arianvp> team 92*
<gchristensen> nice
<arianvp> Called Tweakers.net
<gchristensen> ahh cool
<arianvp> Ill donate my GPUs to NixOS now I guess. gotta whore some karma
<drakonis> hmm, is there any literate programming parser that works on nix files?
<drakonis> i have this big obnoxious config that's built from a dozen files
<drakonis> glue together a config from multiple files for editing
<drakonis> that nixflk repository is too many folders aaa
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<infinisil> org mode?
<infinisil> Ah no, never mind
<infinisil> Altough, I'm sure org mode supports that somehow
<infinisil> Because there's nothing org mode can't do :)
<drakonis> well, i was thinking about orgmode here
<drakonis> parse the configuration graph
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* colemickens has a hard time telling the difference between morph and a stateless nixops
<pie_[bnc]> isnt that the point(?)
<pie_[bnc]> (i really dunno)
<colemickens> I don't either. Hoping for input from someone with opinions.
<colemickens> or context, maybe its as simple as morph was a "let's just do it new" versus nixops evolving slowly in that direction over time.
<__monty__> I think nixops has a broader goal?
<__monty__> One that can never be completely stateless?
<ottidmes> colemickens: infinisil is working on his own thing with nixoses
<colemickens> I'm not sure I know what that means. Does infinisil produce or work on morph?
<ottidmes> just to point out another project in the same space
<drakonis> entirely in nix lang
<colemickens> Oh! I definitely misunderstood, had never heard of it, heh. Thanks!
<infinisil> It's very much WIP right now, I wouldn't recommend anybody to use it for something important :)
<infinisil> Though it does work decently for my couple machines
<joepie91> colemickens: the scope of morph is way smaller than that of nixops
<joepie91> waaaay smaller
<joepie91> morph is pretty much just the "... but for multiple machines over the network" part of NixOS
<joepie91> whereas NixOps has a pretty big and complex cloudycloud resource management layer
<gchristensen> not any more, they were all moved to plugins
<gchristensen> and after nixops#1264, it'll support stateless networks
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixops/pull/1264 (by grahamc, 1 day ago, open): Example NixOps State Backends
<eyJhb> Just finished my all blank keyboard!
<eyJhb> However there is quite some sharp edges... And need some polish
<cole-h> All the MOOCs I signed up for back in the day are starting to send tons of emails again because of this covid stuff...
<__monty__> Did you really dremel a thinkpad keyboard?
<__monty__> That's horrifying.
<joepie91> that is some dedication
<__monty__> At least it looks like one of the newer worse ones.
<eyJhb> __monty__: I have 5 of them :p
<joepie91> eyJhb: mind if I share that photo elsewhere :P
<eyJhb> joepie91: yeah, really wanted it. Took forever... - Where do you have in mind?
<joepie91> eyJhb: hackerspace channel
<__monty__> eyJhb: Just because there's more than one piece by Da Vinci doesn't make it ok to vandalise any of them -_-
<eyJhb> Sure, go ahead! Here on freenode?
<joepie91> eyJhb: yeah, #revspace
<eyJhb> __monty__: also, it is a new one... And not even backlight
<eyJhb> Sure, share ahead. Just joined to see the comments
<joepie91> eyJhb: seems to be about the same as here lol
<joepie91> "that's causing me physical pain"
<eyJhb> Haha, I would expect that
<eyJhb> Also not that good a finish
<eyJhb> Hoping for some polish tomorrow
<joepie91> eyJhb: before you joined, someone asked whether it was a marker or sanded lol
<eyJhb> Marker would have been prettier... But didn't last whell
<eyJhb> well
<cransom> i wonder if those keys are ABS. you could probably try using a small bit of acetone to smooth them out again (if so)
<ottidmes> lol, I suck at C++, made 2 changes to a C++ file, got 2 errors...
<gchristensen> one time I made a 2 line change and got 10,000 lines of output
<ottidmes> but isn't that good, means its building ;)
<ottidmes> wish Nix was in Rust rather than C++
<joepie91> same
<joepie91> I'd definitely be contributing to core if that were the case
<gchristensen> nix#3450 nix#3416 nix#
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nix/pull/3450 (by Ericson2314, 1 day ago, open): Extend Rust FFI
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nix/pull/3416 (by Ericson2314, 1 week ago, open): WIP: more rust
<ottidmes> I am trying at the moment, managed to build my super duper change (like printing one additional thing...), now I am just figuring out how to actuall use this build
<joepie91> waaaaait
<joepie91> we have a non-zero amount of Rust in Nix core?
<gchristensen> yes
<joepie91> how did I not know or run across this
<gchristensen> I don't know :)
<ottidmes> because you did not dare clone the Nix repo, if you build it, you indeed see some Rust being built
<joepie91> ottidmes: I have definitely cloned the Nix repo and dug through code in the past :)
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<joepie91> I will have to explore this further
<joepie91> wonder why it rolls its own parser rather than using nom
<ottidmes> src/nix/nix eval '(1+1)' -> error: experimental Nix feature 'nix-command' is disabled, so I tried src/nix/nix --experimental-features nix-command eval '(1+1)' -> error: getting status of '/home/matthijs/fork/nix/inst': No such file or directory, what is going on
<joepie91> happy to see error types though
<MichaelRaskin> Well, internal FFI ensures getting Rust safety to hold still requires to write perfectly correct C++…
<gchristensen> correct
<joepie91> isn't that an inherent constraint to using C++ in your codebase, though?
<MichaelRaskin> It might end up being worse, as now you have _two_ optimizers to bite you
<joepie91> hm, not quite following
<MichaelRaskin> Well, you now need to satisfy all the assumptions _both_ of the C++ compiler _and_ Rust compiler (through FFI)
<gchristensen> not to mention the problem that there is no C++ ABI or Rust ABI, and so bridging the gap is either annoying -- making a C interface -- or going the cxx route, which has its own things
<drakonis> ottidmes: feature gates yall
<drakonis> you need to enable those
<drakonis> use nix.extraoptions to include the features
<drakonis> nix.extraOptions=''experimental-features = nix-command flakes ca-references'';
<colemickens> is that feature flag a new thing? I've only just hit that on the aarch64 community box. I don't think I have anything in my local config regarding nix-command.
<gchristensen> yeah
<gchristensen> the ca-references thing is a bug though, fixed in master I think
<gchristensen> (bug is in master only, too)
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<gchristensen> (afaik)
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<ottidmes> drakonis: setting that flag like that works for the installed nix, but my nix-shell nix seems to ignore it, setting the flag like I did does remove the error about it, so I suppose it works, just now sure what the inst is about, so I am now going to try to change a nixpkgs checkout for where nix is defined and add my local fork
<drakonis> oh yeah
<drakonis> it only applies to the unified CLI
<ottidmes> drakonis: I mean that my locally build nix does not seem to read from /etc/nix/nix.conf, so setting it there had no effect, but setting it like I did with the flag, did work, but I get the inst not found error. I am calling the unified cli as I showed
<drakonis> hm, i see.
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<gchristensen> we did it! https://covidactnow.org/state/MA
<ottidmes> gchristensen: what exactly? made the site?
<gchristensen> we aren't projected to have hospital overload in the next 3mo!
<cole-h> Same here in CA, it seems.
<ottidmes> We have Shelter in Place in NL currently too, you might even get fined if you get closer than 1.5m to someone in public, pretty drastic measures, but necessary it seems
<gchristensen> wow nce
<gchristensen> also I didn't realize you were in NL
<MichaelRaskin> Has MA already declared some non-FDA-approved test «not good enough for medical advice but good enough for lockdown-relevant statistics»?
<gchristensen> I don't think so
<MichaelRaskin> It looks like there are fewer than 10 countries which have any idea what is actually going on…
<MichaelRaskin> (with infections, not with severe cases)
<gchristensen> I feel glad that I live in a state which both is more inclined to take action, and was not at the forefront of states which got it
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