gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
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<andi-> steveeJ: also heard that current AMD GPUs just work(tm).
<hexa-> "current" AMD gpus work on 20.03, not on 19.09 :)
<andi-> yeah, current hardware needs current software.
<hexa-> case in point: rx5700
<hexa-> yeah, just saying that linux_latest didn't suffice on 19.09
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<elvishjerricco> Down to just two nixops deployments. If I can find a way to handle secrets better then `deployment.keys`, it'll go to zero
<gchristensen> just in time for it to have some new life
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<lovesegfault> elvishjerricco: What do you use instead?
<lovesegfault> I was thinking of starting to use nixops
<gchristensen> oh cool, invidious is written in Crystal
<elvishjerricco> lovesegfault: The wrong thing. It's useful for automating major environments, but I'm just using it for personal machines.
<elvishjerricco> gchristensen: What kind of new life?
<lovesegfault> elvishjerricco: It's been ported to py3 and got type annots
<elvishjerricco> Ah. Not really relevant to the user experience :P
<gchristensen> being py3 + having type annotations -> MUCH easier to improve
<gchristensen> elvishjerricco: what makes it ill-suited for personal machines?
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<elvishjerricco> gchristensen: Ill suited isn't the word I'd use. Just unnecessary. But also the eval times are way worse (a problem when your config is as needlessly complex as mine :P)
<lovesegfault> gchristensen: I have no idea how to use it
<gchristensen> interesting, nixops makes the eval time longer?
<elvishjerricco> Doesn't it end up evaling your config like 3 or 4 times or something?
<elvishjerricco> That's the eval problem I'm referring to
<gchristensen> hmm not sure
<elvishjerricco> I know it did at one point. May have changed, but I doubt it
<elvishjerricco> The crux is that it calls nix-instantiate to get config information, and has to do so two or three times
<gchristensen> ah
<elvishjerricco> And then I think the Nix code itself ends up eval'ing your config twice with different parameters, but only in the last nix-instantiate
<gchristensen> wow
<elvishjerricco> IIRC
<elvishjerricco> It's been a while since I looked into this problem
<elvishjerricco> I also just really don't like its key management, so I want to find something better
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<gchristensen> right on
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<elvishjerricco> Ugh. Bluetooth is probably the most consistently failing part of NixOS for me
<elvishjerricco> Like 80% of the time, I have to freakin reboot to be able to connect my headphones
<samueldr> is this something that's better in other distros? if so, maybe there's something to learn and improve from them
<elvishjerricco> I have no idea. NixOS is the only Linux I've ever actually used in earnest
<elvishjerricco> But whether it's Linux's or NixOS's fault, it's a pretty sorry state
<lovesegfault> elvishjerricco: I have solved all my bluetooth woes
<lovesegfault> one moment
<elvishjerricco> lovesegfault: That looks useful. I'll definitely try it out
<elvishjerricco> Thanks
<lovesegfault> np
<etu> steveeJ: My T495 works quite well nowadays on newer kernels. I had some issues with "older" kernels.
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<sphalerite> elvishjerricco: you can also use pulseaudioFull rather than overriding it if you want to get it from the cache
<sphalerite> ,tell lovesegfault you can also use pulseaudioFull rather than overriding it if you want to get it from the cache
<{^_^}> sphalerite: I'll pass that on to lovesegfault
<elvishjerricco> sphalerite: I do use pulseaudioFull already
<sphalerite> what areyour concrete problems though actually?
<sphalerite> I don't really have problems with bluetooth except HFP/HSP vs A2DP
<ar> for me, sometimes connecting with the headphones gives me a connection with no services resolved (β†’ headphones don't show up in pavucontrol). in that case the sequence of, pulseaudio -k, pavucontrol (to force relaunch of PA), sudo systemctl restart bluetooth, and reconnecting to headphones fixes it
<ar> it usually happens after i've done at least one update (nix-channel --update, nixos-rebuild switch)
<yorick> ar: they fixed it in recent pulseaudio
<yorick> I think
<ar> yorick: how recent? i'm on -unstable and it happened to me yesterday
<yorick> okay, then you have another bug
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<elvishjerricco> sphalerite: The most common thing is that I attempt to connect my headphones, but they don't connect as any useful device; i.e. no audio device. I've tried applying the supposed fix with pulseaudio as a patch but that didn't help, and neither did setting the pusleaudio package from unstable. In blueman, I can't select an audio profile, so I must assume it's just not connecting as an audio device.
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<steveeJ> thanks ashkitten, andi-, hexa-, etu, that's enough to convince me :-) I'll wait until the 4x00U CPUs are available
<andi-> steveeJ: also a good idea :) I am planning to buy one as well.. :)
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<steveeJ> andi-: what's your best guess when we'll see a Lenovo T4xx machine with it?
<andi-> steveeJ: soon, T14s
<andi-> or T14. only problem I see with either is that Lenovo doesn't sell any resonable display resolutions with those devices (yet)
<andi-> It feels like they are artificially limiting those because of a weird Intel deal
<steveeJ> with reasonable you mean 4k?
<andi-> >1920x1080
<andi-> In 2009 I had better screen resolution in my notebook..
<steveeJ> meh, that's fine for me on a 14". I don't like wearing goggles while working :-D
<steveeJ> s/goggles/binoculars/
<steveeJ> besides, I'm reading that "4K-UHD-HDR-Display mit 500 cd/mΒ², das es exklusive bei den Intel-Modellen von T14s und T14 gibt"
<andi-> yeah
<andi-> exactly that part is what I also read
<steveeJ> oh, I see what you're hinting at. AMD models won't have it
<andi-> I'll call my usual dealer and ask for a reasoning
<steveeJ> well, corruption is real
<steveeJ> any vendor will probably use it to the extent they can
<andi-> I remember ordering my T520 with Intel GPU only after they told me it is technically not possible... It turned out to was very feasible...
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<sphalerite> I'd agree that 4K on 14" is unnecessarily large, WQHD (2560x1440) is enough
<sphalerite> although maybe I just need new glasses lol
<sphalerite> andi-: I'm interested in this dealer though :D
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<ar> toilets with threatening auras: https://i.imgur.com/G933rg0.jpg
<hexa-> ΓΌ
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<emily> the cap of ryzen laptops at 1080p is ridiculous
<emily> no ECC is sad too :(
<eyJhb> emily: what is the cap at?
<emily> eyJhb: you can't get a ryzen laptop with >1080p screen
<emily> e.g. see above, T14s is going to have 4K but only on intel models
<emily> i can only assume it's intel being scummy
<ar> or lelnovo not wanting to "risk" it
<ar> i actually wonder if the 4k screens will end up actually being compatible
<ar> but just not listed
<ar> i guess we'll have to wait for disassembly videos
<__monty__> Anyone in/near CET have experience getting a double-sided PCB fabbed, like only 2-5 units?
<gchristensen> does dirtypcbs.com count?
<__monty__> Wow, how is a matte black PCB of 5x5 cm a surplus of $25?!
<__monty__> Does *anyone* want black PCBs that bad?
<__monty__> I was hoping for something kinda local. Is china really the only place for affordable small batch fabbing?
<gchristensen> no they aren't, for example I buy from oshpark which is not in china
<__monty__> I know there's fabs relatively close by. Is it worth bothering to contact them as someone who doesn't know what they're talking about? Or do fabs that don't advertise their services to "hackers/DIY" not deal with hobbyists?
<gchristensen> worth a shot
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<emily> ar: i mean surely the amdgpus can take it
<ar> emily: yeah, i mean physical compat
<emily> right
<srk> __monty__: not all fabs offer pooling services. I do have good experience with pcbway
<srk> if they do price is still way higher compared to china but quality is also better
<__monty__> srk: How much higher are we talking? The one gchristensen linked is ~$15 for ~10 boards.
<gchristensen> __monty__: for dirty?
<gchristensen> you're not going to get anything even close to dirty's prices outside of china lol
<__monty__> So we're talking more than double?
<emily> welcome to globalization :v
<emily> i like how dirtypcbs.com pops up a modal confirm asking you whether you want to go to the https version of the site
<gchristensen> hmm I bet there is a way with like dbus or gconf to set the "print to file" destination file
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<jtojnar> gchristensen in GTK?
<gchristensen> yeah
<gchristensen> every month I have to "print to pdf" a bunch of pages, and they're always the same pages in the same order in a predictable format. I'd love to not have to type it in a bunch of times
<jtojnar> probably using GSettings api
<jtojnar> GConf has been abandoned for ages
<gchristensen> yeah... I ended up finding dconf? is that using gsettings?
<gchristensen> though I didn't find an entry for it
<jtojnar> yeah, dconf database is one of backends supported by GSettings
<jtojnar> (usually the default one)
<jtojnar> apparently GtkPrintSettings does not use GSettings
<jtojnar> but keyfile
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<jtojnar> at least output-dir should be configurable in print-settings.ini
<jtojnar> but I am not sure where the file is located
<jtojnar> scratch that, I was looking into wrong source file
<jtojnar> gchristensen looks like Firefox actually sets the path via some GTK api call from `print.print_to_filename` Firefox config key
<gchristensen> jtojnar: interesting..
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<gchristensen> good grief I'm gonna need one of these ...... for testing .... https://amperecomputing.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Mt._Snow_PB_v0.50_20200227.pdf
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<gchristensen> a little heavy handed but pretty much hehe
<sphalerite> gchristensen: how much does it cost though?
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<gchristensen> sphalerite: without any drives, and probably a medhium amount of ram I'd imagine $4-6k
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<__monty__> Hmm, maybe I should contribute this to the doc format RFC πŸ€” https://hamwaves.com/markdown/images/learning_curve.png
<gchristensen> the wisdom is to stay away from the far right because you've already lost
<drakonis> https://docs.racket-lang.org/pollen/ where does this stand?
<drakonis> outside of the curve?
<__monty__> gchristensen: Sounds like an aphorism that applies to all facets of life : )
<gchristensen> __monty__: fierce :)
<cole-h> __monty__: Am I missing a character or do you really put a space between the eyes and mouth of your smileyfaces
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<__monty__> drakonis: I'm not sure tbh, guess it depends on how heavily you abuse macros.
<__monty__> cole-h: You're not mistaken : )
<cole-h> Heathen
<__monty__> I prefer the proportions : p
<cole-h> Please stop, you're scaring me
<__monty__> But I actually started doing it because my (feature) phone automatically replaces emoticons with emoji if I don't : *
<infinisil> I'm watching some Rocket League matches here: https://www.twitch.tv/johnnyboi_i
* infinisil loves watching high level RL
<__monty__> I prefer ELO RLs like the starlink stream last week πŸš€
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<infinisil> Hehe
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<ashkitten> i'm not actually sure how i'd run certbot manually...
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<ashkitten> or whatever acme client nixos uses
<gchristensen> discussion now in -dev and https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/81634
<{^_^}> #81634 (by emilazy, 1 hour ago, open): nixos/acme: force-renewing certificates is unreasonably difficult
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<ashkitten> thanks!
<__monty__> Yikes.
<emily> it's a mess
<emily> I mean the fact that certs are getting revoked on a one-day timescale at all is a mess
<emily> but also our unreadiness for it (I wanted to work on force renewals because I had to do one but I figured most people wouldn't care)
<emily> gchristensen: do you have any idea how we could flag this up for people to see more broadly?
<emily> maybe a post on nixos.org?
<emily> feels like a lot of people are probably going to want to do it
<emily> Q: how did this misissuance happen?
<{^_^}> letsencrypt/boulder#4690 (by jsha, 3 days ago, merged): Pass authzModel by value, not reference
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<__monty__> Hmm, I don't even see how that lead to the bug. Could you mansplain it for me, please?
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<emily> + maybe concurrent modification I think?
<emily> whether I'm even capable of mansplaining is an ontological question, on the other hand :p
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<cransom> i've been mansplained by a woman that mansplaining is gender indifferent.
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<ashkitten> emily: do you know what sort of attacks this could actually enable?
<emily> ashkitten: depends on what you mean by "this"?
<ashkitten> letsencrypt bug
<emily> if you don't renew your certificates then every client that checks for revocations (e.g. Firefox by default) will stop letting people into your site
<emily> or do you mean what people could have done if they didn't revoke?
<ashkitten> right
<emily> you could issue a certificate with let's encrypt even through the domain has CAA records specifying that only other some other CA should be able to issue certificates for it
<emily> which is an invalidly issued certificate
<emily> and if you invalidly issue certificates, you must report it and revoke them
<emily> in this case, they have no way of knowing which certificates were validly issued during the period
<emily> because the DNS records could have changed since
<ashkitten> right, okay
<emily> so, <nuclear option>
<ashkitten> so it doesn't actually enable attackers though?
<emily> i mean maybe anyone in your org can put stuff in /.well-known/acme-challenge
<emily> but it's ok because your CAA records say that only Very Scrutinizing Certificates Co. can issue
<emily> which uses some other means of verification
<emily> then that rogue person could get certificates for your domain and hoard them away for a later attack
<emily> (well... up to 90 days later? ^^; )
<ashkitten> lol
<ashkitten> fair enough
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<iceypoi> good evening
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<pie_[bnc]> its still marked stale https://github.com/syl20bnr/spacemacs/issues/12029 >.>
<{^_^}> syl20bnr/spacemacs#12029 (by deliciouslytyped, 1 year ago, open): Nonstandard repo location (environment flexibility)
<pie_[bnc]> (wow it's been a year?)
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<hexa-> emily: so the funny thing about that twitter thread earlier is that apparently caddy renews on ocsp invalid
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<samueldr> (follow up from -dev) though, UTC is not necessarily the answer, I am biased, but I like this approach I used for hydra https://hydra.nixos.org/build/113850104
<samueldr> (see Finished at)
<samueldr> augment the date with the detected local timezone, and show other interpretations
<gchristensen> nice, samueldr
<cole-h> I was mostly being facetious :D
<samueldr> it's hard to tell here with dates :)
<samueldr> this way it's less likely to cause confusion, and there is always the common format when discussing
<cole-h> Only problem is: you can't have user-specific dates on IRC (in the message, at least)
<samueldr> yeah
<infinisil> Possibly a good thing
<samueldr> [15:36:38] * Received CTCP-TIME answer from infinisil: Tue, 03 Mar 2020 21:36:38 +0100
<samueldr> you can, maybe, probably, depending on the client
<infinisil> I can imagine a lot of confusion when talking about times!
<infinisil> A client auto-parsing times and rewriting them into local TZ
<samueldr> now imagine if you start talking about fitting the times table in a class' timetable
<samueldr> discourse kinda does it, when it can
<samueldr> though it does have the advantage of hypertext to augment
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<cole-h> gchristensen: In ofborg, what's the difference between `config.known-users.json` and `config.extra-known-users.json`?
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<gchristensen> nothing, no need to know, thos efiles can go away as the known user list doesn't do anything anymore
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<adisbladis> Anyone with a tip about a cheap webcam that's decent?
<__monty__> adisbladis: The one already in your laptop or phone? : >
<adisbladis> __monty__: But not on my desktop computer
<cole-h> gchristensen: So as a member of the org, I can use eval, build, etc, or is there something else I have to do? Just asking for future reference.
<__monty__> adisbladis: Prop up a phone?
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<adisbladis> __monty__: That doesn't really work for me.
<adisbladis> 1. My phone cant even drive my headphones at a decent volume
<adisbladis> 2. It's mainly for videocalls where screen sharing & stuff like this is common
<adisbladis> Phone screens are _tiny_
<adisbladis> Actually... My phone can't even drive my friggin in-ears properly
<adisbladis> I have to connect a usb dac
<adisbladis> God the Pixel XL has awful audio circuitry
<pie_[bnc]> XL for Xtra Lol
<__monty__> Are you sure it's not because you're not using gold-plated cables though?
<adisbladis> pie_[bnc]: Ah, nice one.
<adisbladis> :)
<lovesegfault> __monty__: solid gold cabling or go home
<{^_^}> lovesegfault: 14 hours, 9 minutes ago <sphalerite> you can also use pulseaudioFull rather than overriding it if you want to get it from the cache
<lovesegfault> sphalerite: pulseaudioFull comes with all sorts of garbage enabled
<lovesegfault> I just need bt
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<adisbladis> __monty__: lol
<adisbladis> They _are_ gold plated though..
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<adisbladis> Tbh the pixel xl might as well not have a 3.5mm jack
<gchristensen> cole-h: ofborg's comman are not limited anymore at all :) the only limitation in place is you need to be a "trusted" user to build on x86_64-darwin
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<cole-h> gchristensen++ That might be good to put in the ofborg repo :P Thanks for clarifying!
<{^_^}> gchristensen's karma got increased to 218
<gchristensen> a good idea :)
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<colemickens> lovesegfault: what sort of performance are you getting? I don't want to game, but I have a 1440p ultrawide and would like to drive it at a high framerate ideally
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<cole-h> samueldr: How long did it take for Netflix to get back to you and remove you from their systems? Just got another email...
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<samueldr> 2 full business days
<cole-h> I only just sent mine on Saturday, so hopefully I hear back by tomorrow. Thanks.
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