<pie_[bnc]>
I have seen this and now you have to see it https://github.com/reinderien/mimic 'Fun games to play with mimic: - Pipe some source code through and see if you can find all of the problems - Pipe someone else's source code through without telling them - Be fired, and then killed'
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<samueldr>
I don't need that to have issues with stoaway unicode fun
<samueldr>
stowaway*
<samueldr>
some often-used symbols like [] and {} are on the third level on my keyboard layout, meaning Alt Gr is used, and Alt Gr + Space is a non-breaking space
<samueldr>
> [ "fun!" ]
<{^_^}>
error: syntax error, unexpected $undefined, at (string):284:2
<colemickens>
DAE use reddit? :/ Setting config.filesystems doesn't actually affecting on disk formatting in any way, right?
<samueldr>
nope
<pie_[bnc]>
that....does not sound correct
<colemickens>
Maybe it doesn't matter, I guess it was a long time ago in Internet time. Doesn't seem like a lot of folks on Discourse/IRC use the sub (probably for the best, I guess).
<samueldr>
it's the equivalent of setting up "/etc/fstab"
<colemickens>
I have it many places in my config, but somehow the comment being upvoted made me doubt myself.
<samueldr>
the subreddit isn't even "controlled" by the nixos community :/
<gchristensen>
nix options doing formatting? never
<samueldr>
s/never/probably not gonna happen/ # let's be hopeful this can be solved
<samueldr>
but yeah, it needs to be so solid that it's basically as if it was "never"
<gchristensen>
it pretty much can't, and I hope no serious effort is made to try to
<emily>
there's nothing wrong with spitting out a format script based on nix configuration
<samueldr>
I hope people are putting effort in proving that wrong :)
<emily>
nix-build -A format-disks, cat result/format.sh, ./result/format.sh
<samueldr>
but yes, extremely scary
<emily>
(or better than sh, whatever gdisk uses as a script format or whatever)
<gchristensen>
version 1: fileSystems."/".fsType = "ext4"; version 2: - fileSystems."/".fsType = "ext4"; + fileSystems."/".fsType = "ext4";
<emily>
of course it shouldn't be automatic
<gchristensen>
roll back version 2 to version 1 at the bootloader -> oops
<samueldr>
yeah
<emily>
the current status quo where you set things up imperatively then derive a config from it is imo worse
<emily>
than defining a config declaratively and deriving the imperative setup actions from that (which you then apply explicitly, not implicitly)
<gchristensen>
it feels worse, but it is better as it does not pretend to be declaratively applied
<pie_[bnc]>
i think this could work if you have an external data store
<emily>
but I never said anything about pretending to make it declarative :p
<emily>
you can just generate scripts
<samueldr>
there's that word: "just" :)
<pie_[bnc]>
some variant of "generate system image from inputs"
<gchristensen>
generating scripts implies a lot, and it is much safer and more honest to require it be setup externally and imported in to Nix
<pie_[bnc]>
its basically whatever people do for cloud stuff?
<pie_[bnc]>
the difference being you are usually not changing out the system under yourself with a high chance of being unable to undo
<pie_[bnc]>
its put together altogether differently.
<gchristensen>
exactly
<pie_[bnc]>
sidenote; i like idempotency and undo, a lot uwu
<emily>
can you describe what's safer or more honest (or what "more honest" even means) about manually keying things into gdisk, compared to writing the config you want as a nix expression and then driving gdisk based on that?
* pie_[bnc]
will come to read the herein discussed later, good night folks!
<gchristensen>
the best nixos option is made true true every time the system is activated. the second best is the type which is manually specified, and NixOS trusts it is true -- leaving it up to the user to make sure it is true. the worst type of option is the NixOS option which only has affect the first time it is used
<emily>
again, I don't want to hook anything into system generation, the activation scripts, boot, or anything at all whatsoever
<gchristensen>
I know
<gchristensen>
and I think that is better
<emily>
simply an explicit tool that turns the difference between the current partition table (and explicitly print what that difference is) and what is configured into a gdisk script, so that the source of truth can be in nix
<emily>
which would also simplify installation and deployment
<emily>
since you can talk about partitions and filesystems purely in nix terms rather than having it specified both in terms of partitioner commands and nix
<gchristensen>
I feel also that Nix is not a good way to describe it, but that is probably a different conversation
<gchristensen>
I think it is better for Nix's reputation to not be associated with filesystem partitioning overall, though again a different conversation
<emily>
what do you think is a good source of truth for partitioning information? nix seems as good for it as any structured data language, really
<emily>
there's no need for the configuration to necessarily match the nixos mounts one 1:1 as long as you can derive the latter from the former
<gchristensen>
I think a project which is 100% dedicated to automatic partitioning is the right one
<gchristensen>
(having recently written such a tool... no fun)
<emily>
it's definitely thorny
<emily>
I think the existing NixOS install experience kinda sucks though :(
<emily>
and I feel like solving that will involve moving more in the direction of Nix as source of truth for the system, rather than deriving the Nix from the imperatively-set-up system
<gchristensen>
I disagree, I think for automation-based installs we havea VERY nice system already -- as long as you bring your own partitioner.
* pie_[bnc]
mumbles something about the fact that it would be good if several very specific libraries existed for some things....
<gchristensen>
I think for human-driven installs, a GUI-fied partitioner is ideal
<pie_[bnc]>
ofc one would need to find maintainers for said libraries..
<gchristensen>
w.r.t. the automation-based installer, I say that maintaining a bunch of automatic installer tooling. it is really nice to have tool A do partition-and-mount, and then nixos-generate-config do the thing
<samueldr>
I know for a fact that initial partitioning/mounting is the main struggle we see in the install process
<pie_[bnc]>
i think the main problem of not having a gui installer currently is noone has actually gone and done it?
<pie_[bnc]>
how hard could it be (TM)
<gchristensen>
samueldr: no doubt
<pie_[bnc]>
there is even that one framework now
<samueldr>
pie_[bnc]: you tell us :)
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<samueldr>
one of the issue with that: there are too many setups to document
<pie_[bnc]>
samueldr: dont worry im perpetuating the "noone has actually gone and done it" thing! ;D
<samueldr>
LUKS on LVM?
<samueldr>
ext4?
<samueldr>
zfs?
<pie_[bnc]>
those are "advanced" configs
<emily>
the advanced config of ext4
<samueldr>
are they?
<pie_[bnc]>
* 'those are "advanced" configs'
<samueldr>
then, should it have a /boot discrete partition? if so, why? and should it also be the ESP?
<pie_[bnc]>
im generally not one to advocate doing what everyone else does "badly" but maybe its not bad to consider doing something like what the ubuntu people do, then you have nix on your system, you can figure out nix, and you can reinstall if you need and have some idea of how to do the more advanced stuff?
<emily>
in practice you need a discrete boot partition because everything is efi
<emily>
and it should be the esp because anything else is annoying
<pie_[bnc]>
maybe im mixing extra things in here. whats the target audience?
<samueldr>
efi doesn't require a discrete boot partition
<samueldr>
but it does require the ESP
<samueldr>
but yes, in practice that's the simple setup
<samueldr>
pie_[bnc]: probably unclear, which doesn't help :)
<pie_[bnc]>
my main gripe is i havent wanted to learn any of the cli paritioning tools and having to do sector math or whatever, and so i always just use cfdisk
<samueldr>
tbf, right now I'm also procrastinating figuring out the root cause of a segfault in custom scripting language bindings
<samueldr>
I think anyone using raw fdisk/gdisk is doing it because they don't know better or are "try hads"
<samueldr>
"try hards"*
<pie_[bnc]>
we should get some HCI people to look at nix and tell us all the reasons its terrible that we already know :D
<emily>
I use raw gdisk
<emily>
not sure if I'm a tryhard
<pie_[bnc]>
x3
<samueldr>
:) sorry
<pie_[bnc]>
maybe gdisk isnt that bad
<emily>
i mostly don't know that cgdisk would add anything to my gdisk workflow. the one thing that bothers me in gdisk is specifying the partition type
<emily>
specifically i always need to pull up the full list every time and it always takes like 3 more keypresses than i expect
<emily>
not to say it's a particularly elegant interface
<samueldr>
there's that that it would help with
<samueldr>
maybe add a third group: those that are already so used to it that it doesn't matter at that point
<pie_[bnc]>
with the gui stuff you can "always" just see the layout
<pie_[bnc]>
well, nevermind
<pie_[bnc]>
im just defending (?) the one thing i bothered learning in this case, because i didnt need to learn anything for it
<pie_[bnc]>
*barely had to learn anyhting
<samueldr>
and before anyone says "but I script my partitioning using fdisk/gdisk"... no you shouldn't... sfdisk and sgdisk are there for that
<samueldr>
fdisk made a breaking change in an update that broke our manual instructions a few releases back
<pie_[bnc]>
scripting tooling is a whole rant oh my goodness
<pie_[bnc]>
and ive barely even done any!
* pie_[bnc]
stares at zfs >_>
<pie_[bnc]>
samueldr: good to know in any case.
<samueldr>
!!! that segfault isn't even caused by my own code!!!
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<colemickens>
How is there not a solid ncurses partitioner by now?
<colemickens>
I guess not many people sit down and say "I want to write a new partitioner tool" in 2020, but hey, might be nice.
<colemickens>
I thought something akin to nix-part seemed ideal but some of the scrollback makes me think others are less convinced.
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<ar>
colemickens: cfdisk?
<ar>
colemickens: it's been around for a while, and can handle gpt and mbr
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<colemickens>
I meant liek full ncurses I think sfdisk and cfdisk are both cli options.
<colemickens>
I guess classic debian ncurses installers can partition, I'm sure its out there in some codebase(s)
<colemickens>
Microsoft's Cascadia Code font is nice. I thought it seemed comic sans-y at first but I'm liking it at a lot of sizes and made it the default in firefox (Which actually shows up in a few places)
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<emily>
cfdisk is not cli
<emily>
but try cgdisk
<emily>
gdisk is my preferred partitioner and cgdisk is the ncurses version
<colemickens>
:) thanks!
<emily>
cfdisk is pretty similar too
<colemickens>
I usually just use gdisk. I think its a habit from a period where fdisk didnt work with GPT maybe?
<eyJhb>
Isn't that still the case?
<colemickens>
"Note: fdisk supports GPT since util-linux 2.23." - Arch Wiki
<eyJhb>
Fair :D
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<adisbladis>
My isp is the best -.-
<adisbladis>
It's crashing every day at the moment
<adisbladis>
For like 30 minutes at a time
<eyJhb>
adisbladis: Ohh, it could be worse
<eyJhb>
You could live in a place where there is shared internet, with the switches routing it to the apartments are in the individual apartments and the power is taken from the old street lights that keep shorting
<eyJhb>
And the caretaker/janitor/vicevært has given up on it, so when it goes out on friday at 08 AM, it stats out until monday at 14
<eyJhb>
But do they have any valid reason adisbladis ?
<hexa->
adisbladis: just a matter of repurposing that time well
<adisbladis>
eyJhb: Nope
<adisbladis>
Also it just started a few days ago randomly
<eyJhb>
Have you called them adisbladis ?
<adisbladis>
eyJhb: Yep, they have no idea what's going on
<eyJhb>
Sounds really profesional of them then adisbladis
<eyJhb>
Most of my work atm. is offline luckily, but yeah. I would get a good book then, or ensure Plex works offline ;)
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<eyJhb>
ANyone knows some good UML text to pdf ? Like, a sequence diagram described as text which can generate a png, jpeg, pdf, etc.?
<adisbladis>
eyJhb: plantuml?
<eyJhb>
So far that is what I have found :D Don't know if there is a more popular opensource version
<eyJhb>
(more popular and also opensource)
<adisbladis>
eyJhb: I have mostly good experiences with plantuml :)
<eyJhb>
So far, it is awesome adisbladis
<eyJhb>
I love it
<eyJhb>
So easy to use and setup, but it doesn't look that pretty :p
<eyJhb>
adisbladis: have you done Sequence Diagrams in Plantuml? Looking into how I can "create a new process", e.g. X activates Y and starts a thread in the background, but Y immediately after returns a response to X
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<infinisil>
RIP mozilla IRC server
<__monty__>
Yeah, pretty damn sad.
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<hexa->
so long, so long
<cole-h>
😭
<__monty__>
What I don't understand is them not running a bridge.
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<__monty__>
The move to Matrix is supposedly to be more inclusive of younger people (with expectations) and mobile users. But why does that require shutting out all the people perfectly happy with irc?
<__monty__>
I can understand dialing back operating costs and admin time on the network but why shut it down completely and so soon?
<cransom>
community fragmentation?
<__monty__>
But a bridged community isn't fragmented?
<gchristensen>
the IRC network has been poised of cruel, toxic people
<__monty__>
What?
<gchristensen>
the IRC network has been poisoned by cruel, toxic people*
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<__monty__>
I don't see how Matrix is gonna help prevent that?
<gchristensen>
better moderation tools I think
<__monty__>
And why shut out the good ones so suddenly?
<gchristensen>
the good ones left already
<__monty__>
Just set up a bridge and slowly migrate.
<cransom>
i guess i don't see any real advantage at making it slow. if you are converting, with no support for irc in the future, just do it? maybe if you have bots that need conversion, but the people will figure something out if they really want to stick around.
<gchristensen>
easier to rip bandaids off sometimes
<__monty__>
What about people with very low powered hardware? I've yet to see a matrix client come anywhere close to the hardware requirements of many irc clients.
<Church->
gchristensen: Was the mozilla irc that bad?
<Church->
I only hung in rust channels but it was always nice
<Church->
Before folks migrated off and fragmented
<gchristensen>
the Firefox channel for example was nothing but vitriol
<__monty__>
Still, a bridge'd allow people to connect using an irc client. The moderation tools can still be applied matrix side.
<gchristensen>
no they can't, because the moderation tools make no impact to IRC
<__monty__>
Exactly.
<__monty__>
Just let people *choose* to connect via irc.
<gchristensen>
that does not solve the problem
<__monty__>
It does though. Everyone who can use matrix is in the same position as they are now. The few that can't or don't want to can still join to talk if they want to, keeping in mind that they have to apply their own ignores.
<gchristensen>
not when the problem is "irc is a festering pot of cruel, toxic people"
<__monty__>
Sure you do, spammers don't have a reason anymore because the irc would be close to empty anyway. The majority of people having migrated to matrix.
<gchristensen>
by all means, setup a bridge
<__monty__>
If I don't want to run matrix how can I run a bridge?
<__monty__>
I also believe bridges have to be integrated into irc networks? I don't have admin rights to the now non-existent mozilla irc network so that isn't even a potential solution.
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<emily>
can be run by anyone for whatever matrix server you want
<__monty__>
Afaik that's not actually ready for use yet?
<__monty__>
And I have no reason to believe it's any less of a resource hog than matrix clients.
<emily>
it's at least usable enough that i've seen it recommended... but then your problem is "this software isn't sufficiently fully-formed", which is another thing entirely, anyway
<emily>
"matrix clients" as a group aren't a resource hug. i run weechat-matrix. it feels pretty much like using weechat as an irc client
<emily>
in fact i even irc through it
<__monty__>
I'll take your word for it.
<__monty__>
I still think mozilla's big enough to provide a softer transition period.
<__monty__>
: ( I sometimes dread channel updates because of how long rebuilding takes, then I need something from homebrew and I get sadder still...
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<aanderse>
ah ha ha ha... oh boy
<aanderse>
those moments you feel like an idiot
<aanderse>
after banging your head on something for 20 minutes
<aanderse>
making `services.openssh.authorizedKeysFiles` extra restrictive has impact on `services.gitea`
<aanderse>
which makes perfect sense
<aanderse>
oops
<adisbladis>
Has anyone toyed around with github actions? I'd like to set up my own runner but packaging the github runner thingy is a _pain_
<adisbladis>
Unless someone has an expression lying around somewhere I think I'll resort to downloading a pre-built binary & patchelf it
<adisbladis>
Gah, feels like defeat
* adisbladis
admits defeat and goes for santas little ELF
<gchristensen>
poor adisbladis :(
<adisbladis>
gchristensen: It's a dotnet application.
<adisbladis>
I'm completely stumped
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<gchristensen>
oh no
<gchristensen>
evidence of MSification of github intensifies
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<ashkitten>
samueldr: turns out a replacement screen is only $45 for the pixel xl, and my gf is capable of doing the replacement... so i may have a phone to mess around with nixos-mobile on
<ashkitten>
(i have 2 pixel xls since the screen broke on the other)
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<steveeJ>
would anyone share their experiences with AMD integrated laptop GPUs driver support? I'm mainly interested in stability and reliability of screen hot-plug
<adisbladis>
etu: ^
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<ashkitten>
steveeJ: gf says she's never had an issue with recent vega stuff. she did before with older radeon r9 3xx series mobile gpus, but that was before amdgpu was a thing. she doesn't remember any issues after amdgpu became a thing
<adisbladis>
AMD is a bit slower than Intel to land stuff in mesa though