<samueldr>
but that stdin detaching thing sounds plausible, so I'll look into that
<samueldr>
looking into fixing up the loose ends in bootlogd to use it with NixOS's stage-1 too
<samueldr>
so that we have the consoles mirrored
<samueldr>
right, anything launched in the background
<samueldr>
and beforehand I had /dev/null available since I mounted it because the tool didn't do it itself!
<samueldr>
I hate computers!
<gchristensen>
:D
<gchristensen>
you're the one deciding you care a LOT about the verrryyyyy first thing your computer does! you've brought this on to yourself! You could just use goopy shell like the rest of us :D
<samueldr>
what if the first line in your goopy shell fails?
<samueldr>
how do you know?
<gchristensen>
then it wasn't meant to be
<gchristensen>
;D
<samueldr>
the design decision is that the bootlog daemon will setup the bare minimum it needs, fork the actual logger, then `exec` into whatever second init stage
<samueldr>
this way it can be sh-less if desired (e.g. for Mobile NixOS)
<gchristensen>
yeah this sounds great
<samueldr>
also keeps the door open for an sh-free stage-1 elsewhere
<samueldr>
but really the main reason is to ensure it itself sets-up the bare minimum to work
<samueldr>
BUT, that's apparently impossible as a backgrounded task!
<samueldr>
but yeah, since I intend to fork and exec it's not an issue for the final design... mostly an annoying bump in the road
<samueldr>
and indeed piping into it fixes it, gchristensen++
<{^_^}>
gchristensen's karma got increased to 467
<gchristensen>
nice
<gchristensen>
the amount of space in my brain taken up by weird shell junk is alarming
<samueldr>
I hadn't really stopped myself to think about the meaning of the error
<samueldr>
things requiring DRM will be able to work on "simple" framebuffers
<samueldr>
might actually be helpful for mainlining efforts on many devices
<samueldr>
won't be hw accelerated, but at least there will be a usable output
<abathur>
I don't know if I should read "the amount of space in my brain taken up by weird shell junk is alarming" as an opportunity or a threat or a sweet nothing or ...?
<samueldr>
you're beyond hope already, so I don't think it matters?
<abathur>
ouch
<samueldr>
:)
<samueldr>
take this as a friendly "you're a shell-wizard, harry^W abathur"
<abathur>
accidental tbh
<samueldr>
I don't think there's much you can do to change that
<abathur>
it all started when I wanted my gd history to stop disappearing
<abathur>
next think I know I'm an alias woahzard
<abathur>
speaking of woahzards
<abathur>
I'm really close
<abathur>
to having some new things, but also probably needing some help :}
<supersandro2000>
>> error: reading from file: Cannot allocate memory
<supersandro2000>
20 GB free
<abathur>
that's exciting
<samueldr>
hey now, it didn't say you were out of memory
<abathur>
true
<abathur>
more like the bank that says no?
<abathur>
not like, we don't have money here anymore
<abathur>
just eh
<abathur>
we feel like keeping it
<joepie91>
<abathur> it all started when I wanted my gd history to stop disappearing
<joepie91>
it's a trap
<joepie91>
this is how they ensure future shell maintainers
<abathur>
ye
<abathur>
wonder when I'll finally bite the bullet and acknowledge that taking the time to script some linter or YARA rules to make sure I'm not releasing a bunch of allcaps rage debug code/comments would be a meaningful contribution to my ability to push WIP
<abathur>
today? surely not
<abathur>
(maybe...)
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<colemickens>
where are the xkb wizards at?
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<colemickens>
okay, vim users, do you shift over to use hjkl, or do you move the left finger over every time?
<Church->
I'm a cursed user who uses my arrow keys
<siraben>
colemickens: I've been occasionally trying to use my right pinkie to hit shift more
<siraben>
(Emacs user but applies to typing in general)
<gchristensen>
yeah, I first learned of this yesterday... my inclination is to stay calm through initial tumultuousness, and unless service really falls apart right away, try to ride it out and take careful steps
<gchristensen>
useful to note that the fuchs post starts with a header saying it is a draft, and fuchs hasn't resigned
<joepie91>
gchristensen: +1
<gchristensen>
and jess's gist is a 404 also
<gchristensen>
let's see where things are in a couple days
<joepie91>
gchristensen: yeah, I know some more of the details, and while I can't share them, things are okay for now
<joepie91>
"wait it out" is the correct course of action right now
<gchristensen>
yeah
<jess>
i hear the wayback machine exists
<joepie91>
oh hey jess you're here
<jess>
i'm everywhere :)
<joepie91>
I should not be surprised
<joepie91>
yeah, exactly :P
<gchristensen>
yeah of course, just noting the 404 sends certain amount of message
<jess>
i'm just trying to eat some lunch before i get elbow deep in the absolute fucking shit storm
<gchristensen>
not that it didn't at one point exist :)
<jess>
gchristensen: the regisnation leters got out before we intended them to
<gchristensen>
yeah
<Church->
Yeah was talking them over with a staffer just now
<andi->
just make sure to keep this stable or at least increase the channel limit on the new network... I am constantly hitting limits...
<Church->
This is uh... this is gonna be a thing
<jess>
andi-: you'll be glad to hear that solanum solved the reason that channel limts were small
<gchristensen>
ideally this channel would stay relaxed about the whole thing until we get past the shitstorm and in to results
<jess>
common channel comparsions (for /whois e.g.) were quadratic
<andi->
jess: <3
<joepie91>
oof
<jess>
that got solved by sorting channel lists ahead of time
<jess>
and libera.chat is running solanum
<andi->
jess: still thinking about how to introduce SNI again :/
<andi->
Last I looked the SSL code was "refactored" into the opposite direction :/
<jess>
oh my god my client is blowing up
<jess>
i understand why, but everyone is talking to me
<siraben>
what's happening now
<joepie91>
lmao
<joepie91>
everyone's favourite sandcat
<Reventlov>
it's because of HN
<Reventlov>
it's on the frontpage, jess
<siraben>
uh oh it's no. 1
<joepie91>
ugh
<joepie91>
jess: my condolences
<siraben>
but this is a paste, not an official annoucement?
<joepie91>
siraben: plaintext is kind of the norm for IRC opers :P
<siraben>
Just read it, no noes... this can't be the end of Freenode
<siraben>
gchristensen++ about staying calm
<{^_^}>
gchristensen's karma got increased to 468
<joepie91>
siraben: see above; no immediate cause for concern, let's wait it out :)
<siraben>
alright.
<Church->
Welp, guess I'll get a large soft drink with a crazy straw and some popcorn
<Church->
I'll be vaccinated up and ill tonight. So perfect timing to watch drama.
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<qyliss>
at
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<eyJhb>
ARGHHH... The arc-theme fix needs to go into Nix soon :(
<eyJhb>
Is there any plans to start office hours up again? ( gchristensen , worldofpeace (not here??))
<qyliss>
worldofpeace has sadly stepped away from Nix stuff
<Church->
Eyep
<Church->
The world is now... without peace.
<eyJhb>
What ? :o
<eyJhb>
Any reason for it?
<eyJhb>
*not that it needs to be justified, just wondering
<MichaelRaskin>
eyJhb: they wrote a post
<MichaelRaskin>
My reading of the post is that this is mainly reevaluation of interests.
<eyJhb>
Sad to see them go... worldofpeace was nice :)
<eyJhb>
Yeah
<qyliss>
we all miss worldofpeace :(
<gchristensen>
✨ worldofpeace
<{^_^}>
worldofpeace's karma got increased to 267
<qyliss>
<3 worldofpeace
<{^_^}>
worldofpeace was put on Santa's "nice" list
<eyJhb>
<3 worldofpeace
<{^_^}>
worldofpeace's karma got increased to 269
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<hyperfekt>
i hope WORLDofPEACE is having a good time in whatever other endeavors they are or will be engaged in
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<adisbladis>
eyJhb: Imo the best way to get office hours started again is to step up and offer to help organise
<adisbladis>
This kind of stuff is pretty draining
<eyJhb>
adisbladis: I am sure you can host it with your awesome interwebz speed :D
<MichaelRaskin>
adisbladis: presumably being confident enough to be willing to do the talking, and being interested in listening the office hours are negatively correlated.
<eyJhb>
Main issue here, is that I can do close to no talk on Nix stuff.
<eyJhb>
I can talk about other stuff.. Such as bad lectures.
<adisbladis>
MichaelRaskin: I think you're right
<adisbladis>
eyJhb: I have 100Mbps rn
<adisbladis>
It's pretty decent
<eyJhb>
Damn it
<eyJhb>
What changed?
<adisbladis>
Moving around a lot, just a nice place :)
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<MichaelRaskin>
adisbladis: it's like with documentation, either you know what is true, or you know what is confusing, but knowing both is very rare
<cole-h>
Ordered the 12th, got the email at midnight that it will be delayed :(
<matthewcroughan>
I've had a thought about Nix/NixOS. You've all played with computer aided design right? Nix is like CAD for operating systems and package management. CAD and Parametric Design are based on the concept of constraints, limiting factors that limit the outcome within certain bounds such that the output of the model is limited/constrained within a model you have programmed.
<matthewcroughan>
And so Nix provides CAD for operating systems :D
<MichaelRaskin>
Nope, it's closer to just plain CSG
<matthewcroughan>
CCSG?
<matthewcroughan>
CSG*
<MichaelRaskin>
Constructive solid geometry
<MichaelRaskin>
You do not set constraint and ask to find a solution
<MichaelRaskin>
You tell what the hell should be done
<matthewcroughan>
No, that would be imperative.
<matthewcroughan>
Imperative = telling it how it should be done.
<matthewcroughan>
This is declarative, so you actually kind of are asking it to find a solution.
<MichaelRaskin>
Well, CSG (and Nix) has that thing called scoping
<matthewcroughan>
Someone somewhere made sway work, but all I have to say is programs.sway.enable = true
<MichaelRaskin>
Ah, NixOS (unlike Nix/Nixpkgs) is somewhat more CAD-ish I guess
<MichaelRaskin>
And also has all the fun of a lot of code in different places trying to set something in a shared state without proper scoping
<MichaelRaskin>
Actually declarative is CSG or Nixpkgs: this thing is obtained from those things by such a way of combining
<MichaelRaskin>
Unlike imperative definition, and unlike NixOS, there is no implicit context to spoil anything
<matthewcroughan>
Ah! Interesting, thanks for that explanation ;D
<hodapp>
can't say I've ever encountered CSG with scoping
<hodapp>
I'm only aware of it involving some set-theoretic operations on geometric primitives
<MichaelRaskin>
hodapp: I mean scoping in the boring sense of only having access to the things that you have been passed
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<MichaelRaskin>
I.e. there are lexical scopes
Church- is now known as JJJ
<lovesegfault>
Any ansible users around? Is there any way to temporarily "escape" a {% raw %} block?
<lovesegfault>
like, do some stuff in {% raw %}, then back to not raw, then back to raw
<lovesegfault>
without a zillion {% raw %}
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<JJJ>
Hmm
<JJJ>
I think there is
<JJJ>
Haven't had to do it myself
<matthewcroughan>
lovesegfault: You still have to use ansible despite having Nix powers?
<matthewcroughan>
You do work with it I assume?
<lovesegfault>
matthewcroughan: Yeah, it's for work
<lovesegfault>
I'd never do this to myself
<matthewcroughan>
lovesegfault: have you found any ways to make ansible better with Nix? :D
<matthewcroughan>
I figure they're completely at odds with eachother.
<lovesegfault>
Nope, SRE at work is full-on ansible; no nix involved
<lovesegfault>
luckily I rarely interact with this
<ldlework>
I always found Ansibles abject absue of YAML to be distasteful
<cole-h>
I always found ~~Ansibles abject absue of~~ YAML to be distasteful
<cole-h>
(where ~~ indicates strikethrough)
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<elvishjerricco>
Hm, Tailscale is consistently producing 20min of "activity" per hour when my iPad is locked and not in use. That's unfortunate.
<samueldr>
YAML's pretty fine when you have simple flat data, and you don't care about it accidentally typing itself into another value
* samueldr
hopes for a "NO" reply
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<gchristensen>
norway you'll get one here
<cole-h>
gchristensen++
<{^_^}>
gchristensen's karma got increased to 469
<matthewcroughan>
I'm afraid of being classed a Nix supremacist.
<adisbladis>
lovesegfault: Sounds like site "reliability" engineering
<ldlework>
matthewcroughan: be a functional package management supremacist instead
<matthewcroughan>
ldlework: Same thing innit?
<MichaelRaskin>
But you can include Guix then!
<ldlework>
nah, the latter is like appreciating the value and change containerization is gonna have. the former is like thinking Docker Inc is gonna take over the world.
<drakonis>
this topic has taken a turn for the strange v. fast
<drakonis>
its very funny because its a way that malware uses to hide itself from users
<drakonis>
windows i/o is not good
<andi->
what is good on windows?
<andi->
(serious question)
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<adisbladis>
andi-: They have browsers where you can download another OS
<lovesegfault>
andi-: games work fine
<lovesegfault>
you can overclock your GPU, if you're into that
<adisbladis>
lovesegfault: But is that because of anything inherent to windows
<lovesegfault>
Hi-DPI allegedly works fine
<lovesegfault>
adisbladis: no
<lovesegfault>
Well, the games thing yes
<adisbladis>
In my very limited experience hidpi is a clusterfuck on windows
<adisbladis>
You have older applications that are scaled weirdly and looks like upscaled jpegs
<lovesegfault>
AIUI they fixed it relatively recently
<lovesegfault>
PSA: I do not use windows, but I have friends who do and that's where all my knowledge comes from :P
<adisbladis>
I know some very oddly specific stuff about windows :P
<adisbladis>
But I can barely use it
<andi->
lovesegfault: /me recalls you being talked to by cortana the first time I met you!
<lovesegfault>
I haven't touched it ever since the scaling display driver stopped working for me in my libvirt VM
<lovesegfault>
andi-: hahahaha, yes!
<lovesegfault>
that was hilarious
<lovesegfault>
we were all meeting each other around a desk in the office, and I was setting up my laptop, and cortana started fucking blabbering out of the blue
JJJ is now known as Church-
<Church->
lovesegfault: heh
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<drakonis>
scala 3 lives.......
<drakonis>
it looks good....
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<drakonis>
hmm
<drakonis>
do we not have a package with the newly released scala?
<hodapp>
scala smells
<gchristensen>
come now
<hodapp>
JUST SAYING
<ldlework>
they didn't say what it smells like!
<gchristensen>
yeah I'm not buying it
<MichaelRaskin>
Soooo you do not actually think that having code at all is a code smell?
<hodapp>
errr... what?
<ldlework>
this code smells like freshly baked cookies
<adisbladis>
Lucky you
<adisbladis>
My code smells like sleep deprivation and sweat
<samueldr>
my code smells like regret and future headaches
<gchristensen>
I think we're all writing the same code
<adisbladis>
=)
<MichaelRaskin>
My code smells like an epic violation of YAGNI … until I suddenly do need it.