gchristensen changed the topic of #nixos-chat to: NixOS but much less topical || https://logs.nix.samueldr.com/nixos-chat
<gchristensen> I need some help.
<gchristensen> I'm debugging a problem with some systems. I have several thousand events in the form of (timestamp, architecture, up|down) and I'd like to visualize this to try and see if there are periods where a lot of systems are started and stopped around the same time
<gchristensen> I think I have a bug that causes a lot of systems to be thrashing around for no reason
<gchristensen> any tips?
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<infinisil> Oh hi there
<infinisil> For some reason I couldn't connect to freenode earlier, now it started working again
<aanderse> mhm
<aanderse> bunch of people dropped off
<aanderse> then i dropped off
<aanderse> then my client went nuts
<aanderse> and now we're back
<infinisil> Ahh, so not only me
<infinisil> Must be on freenode's side then
<infinisil> Because all other servers I'm connected to worked just fine
<nickTD> yeah, I think everyone dropped off because when I first joined there were only two people
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<eyJhb> Checking username
<eyJhb> Yay! Still the same :D
<srhb> eyJhb: Good.. job? :)
<eyJhb> srhb: wasn't sure if I had been kicked etc. :p And my ZNC is a BIG fan of changing "eyJhb" to "eyjhb" for some reason
<srhb> Ah :)
<eyJhb> btw. coming to CPH tomorrow! For like.. 3 hours while I wait for my flight ;) :p
<srhb> Where are you going?
<jackdk> I like CPH airport. They seemed to have things figured out when I went through.
<srhb> jackdk: A few years back they built a "bridge" from the metro station and well into the terminal, which helped a lot. However, they marketed this change in a slightly hilarious way, hyping it like they'd actually invented multi-story buildings.
<jackdk> that's an interesting perspective
<eyJhb> ð8iiiaai
<jackdk> I don't like advertising but sometimes it makes me laugh
<srhb> eyJhb: I'm.. sorry? :P
<srhb> jackdk: Indeed.
<eyJhb> Weechat vim mode not playing well with me! :D
<eyJhb> srhb: going to Amsterdam then Cape Town :p Next semester I will be helping a non-profit organisation called Green Shoots :)
<eyJhb> It is quite confusing with so many hits on "Green Shoots"...
<srhb> Indeed. :P Why is that so popular...
<srhb> But cool!
<eyJhb> No clue! :p But basically they are supporting ~300 schools, and want to up that number to 600. So hopefully we can figure out the best way to help them while we are visiting them :D
<srhb> Sounds great :)
<eyJhb> Hopefully :p But it is quite stupid of us to not have booked AAL to Amsterdam.. No reason for us to fly to CPH and wait. Not like you can do anything in the three hours
<srhb> At least a three-hour layover is pretty mild :P
<srhb> I had a 10 hour one in Heathrow coming back from Montreal. That was poor planning...
<eyJhb> Yeah :D And I have a friend who is going with me.. Who has access to the lounge or something like that
<eyJhb> Ahh.. Layovers on the way back/home might be the worst
<eyJhb> Ohh srhb ! YOu are in the weather industry, got any site you would recommend checking the weather for cape town on? ;) :p
<srhb> eyJhb: I'm probably not the best person to ask, but if you check via dmi.dk you'll get data from ECMWF (european center for medium range weather forecasting) who run one of the worldwide weather models. It should be pretty good, but I don't know who actually runs high definition forecasts for Cape Town :)
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<joepie91> samueldr: btw, a request re: mobile NixOS, please document the process and the work you do :D even if it's just rough notes
<__monty__> joepie91: He committed to doing that in the announcement : )
<joepie91> oh, I missed that
<__monty__> In the last paragraph I believe.
<joepie91> __monty__: I'm not finding it?
<__monty__> Ah, second to last: "Since I am working full-time on the project, I will provide updates at least semi-regularly here."
<joepie91> well yeah but that's not what I meant with documentation :P
<joepie91> I mean actual "how did I solve X"
<joepie91> as in, enough information (either structured or just raw notes) that someone could reproduce the work in a different context
<joepie91> even just something like a bash history dump and a browser history dump alongside a few diffs would be very helpful as documentation, to illustrate what I mean
<__monty__> That's how I interpreted that statement. Pings like "stage-2 boots now" don't count as updates.
<joepie91> just to reduce the amount of work that needs to be done by other Linux-on-mobile projects (or OS-on-mobile, really)
<joepie91> __monty__: ah, right. I dunno, usually people mean 'updates' to mean precisely those kind of pings / release notes
<joepie91> hence why I didn't parse it as a docs commitment :)
<__monty__> Well, not data dumps. But you didn't ask for data dumps in the original question, smh.
<joepie91> I'm just using data dumps as an example of a low-effort form of documentation, that would still be tremendously helpful compared to no docs at all
<joepie91> structured, authored documentation with a narrative is of course the best option, but I see a lot of people going "I don't have time for that" and then just not doing any docs /at all/
<__monty__> Let's just hold him accountable for detailed write-ups including blind-alleys because of that one sentence : >
<joepie91> so I'm just trying to make clear that even messy docs are desirable :)
<joepie91> __monty__: I think you're really misinterpreting my intention here...
<__monty__> I think you're misinterpreting what I said as an attack when it was meant as "Let's join forces and make samueldr do it."
<joepie91> __monty__: ah :P
<joepie91> but nah, "make samueldr do it" is the wrong attitude, I think
<__monty__> "Stimulate samueldr's desire to document their process."
<joepie91> I'd happily support them as needed in getting documentation stuff going, but ultimately it is their project, and I don't think it's reasonable for me to produce more pressure than just communicating how desirable/useful documentation would be
<joepie91> I want to avoid being one of those "1000 bosses" that people have when working on OSS projects :)
<joepie91> (unless someone is really showing egregiously irresponsible behaviour, that is)
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<vika_nezrimaya> TIL that nixpkgs has a cross-compiler for Arduino
<vika_nezrimaya> ,true
<vika_nezrimaya> I forgot how to evaluate stuff
<vika_nezrimaya> > true
<{^_^}> true
<vika_nezrimaya> > (import <nixpkgs> { crossSystem = { system = "avr-none" }; }).stdenv
<{^_^}> error: syntax error, unexpected '}', expecting ';', at (string):262:57
<vika_nezrimaya> (import <nixpkgs> { crossSystem = { system = "avr-none"; }; }).stdenv
<vika_nezrimaya> ouch sorry
<vika_nezrimaya> > (import <nixpkgs> { crossSystem = { system = "avr-none" }; }).stdenv
<{^_^}> error: syntax error, unexpected '}', expecting ';', at (string):262:57
<vika_nezrimaya> > (import <nixpkgs> { crossSystem = { system = "avr-none"; }; }).stdenv
<{^_^}> "<derivation /nix/store/ppyi80qrp1f09lxx2aqcw9g8yzijdm62-stdenv-linux.drv>"
<joepie91> the damn semicolons :)
<joepie91> I will never get used to that
<vika_nezrimaya> yeaaaah
<vika_nezrimaya> but well I'm compiling it now just to see how does it work
<joepie91> just sets a different gcc toolchain I would imagine
<vika_nezrimaya> I've never used avr-gcc before though, but I have an Arduino Uno
<joepie91> you can probably also do something like pkgs.cross.whatever
<joepie91> though I'm not 100% clear on how the cross-compiling thing works
<vika_nezrimaya> except AVR is an... 8-bit microcontoller with 16 or so K of RAM incapable of running even GNU Hello
<joepie91> hey, I'm not saying anything would actually compile :D
<joepie91> but it'll try!
<vika_nezrimaya> :3
<etu> vika_nezrimaya: afaik nixpkgs is always imported in the bot
<etu> > pkgs.stdenv
<{^_^}> "<derivation /nix/store/bh88an20k4mqbrd78mlzckwhss1xfggb-stdenv-linux.drv>"
<joepie91> yeah but that'll get you normal nixpkgs
<joepie91> not with crossSystem
<vika_nezrimaya> etu: Notice I've imported another nixpkgs with different settings :3
<joepie91> > pkgs.cross
<{^_^}> attribute 'cross' missing, at (string):262:1
<joepie91> hm
<joepie91> what was it called
<joepie91> > pkgs.crossEnv
<{^_^}> attribute 'crossEnv' missing, at (string):262:1
<joepie91> > pkgsCross
<{^_^}> { aarch64-android-prebuilt = <CODE>; aarch64-embedded = <CODE>; aarch64-multiplatform = <CODE>; aarch64-multiplatform-musl = <CODE>; aarch64be-embedded = <CODE>; amd64-netbsd = <CODE>; arm-embedded = ...
<joepie91> there we go
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<adisbladis> To anyone at the CCC camp: We'll have a Nix packaging workshop in the Hackeriet tent tonight at 18:00
<captn3m0> hackeriet tent = ?
<etu> captn3m0: https://map.c3noc.net/#19.66/53.031759/13.3089427
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/19 (by antono, 7 years ago, merged): Added ubuntu-font-family
<etu> about there
<captn3m0> thanks
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<eyJhb> srhb: didn't know it was like that, thanks :D
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<joepie91> adisbladis: is there no NixOS assembly?
<joepie91> ha, I see the install party is being repeated :)
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<adisbladis> yes there is
<adisbladis> some hackeriet guys asked
<adisbladis> so i figured id do it there
<joepie91> ah, right
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<samueldr> joepie91: I'll try very hard, especially for the parts required to port to one's own devices
<joepie91> samueldr: great to hear :)
<samueldr> there's like a giant hole of documentation _and_ reproducibility notes in the "run non-android on your android device" world
<joepie91> yep, my limited research resulted in the same conclusion
<joepie91> samueldr: another annoyance that I have is that much of the research into this seems focused around high-end devices with specific hardware
<joepie91> like the Nexus models and whatnot
<joepie91> and that little effort seems to be invested in commodity hardware on low-to-mid range devices, where there are many more devices with ~the same hardware, so you could support many more devices with the same work
<samueldr> half-right, but the reason for the nexus device is more about the hardware being easier to hack on
<joepie91> and this is a pretty big hidden barrier to getting involved for people without a lot of money to spend, for example
<samueldr> IIRC most of them had some way to get a serial output
<joepie91> samueldr: Nexus devices were one example, also Samsung devices and other high-end things
<joepie91> where there was no clear hardware-based reason for it
<samueldr> and yeah, market penetration I figure :)
<joepie91> their market penetration isn't that high though
<joepie91> it's more a public consciousness penetration
<samueldr> depends where you look
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<elvishjerricco> Anyone have any fun / silly / interesting Nix projects for me to play with while I'm bored today?
<eyJhb> #63634
<{^_^}> https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/63634 (by aanderse, 8 weeks ago, open): moodle: init at 3.7.1
<eyJhb> Go go elvishjerricco
<gchristensen> lol
<eyJhb> gchristensen: worth a shot
<gchristensen> no I know, you scooped me. I was looking for a bug report to send too :)
<eyJhb> bug report?
<elvishjerricco> No idea what a moodle is so i might not be fit to help that PR :P
<Taneb> eyJhb: I think gchristensen means they were looking for a bug report they could task elvishjerricco with solving
<gchristensen> :D
<eyJhb> elvishjerricco: you are lucky if you don't know what it is :p
<eyJhb> Taneb: makes sense now :D
<eyJhb> gchristensen: go go go!
<Taneb> eyJhb: my partner did a case study on Moodle for their master's thesis
<Taneb> Which means... I'm better placed than I want to be to look at that PR
<gchristensen> sometimes you'll learn to stop admitting to some things
<Taneb> It'd have to be a two person effort and my partner is conveniently in a different country
<joepie91> lol
<aanderse> <3 Taneb
<{^_^}> Taneb's karma got increased to 10
<joepie91> Taneb: CCCamp saves the day again? :P
<Taneb> joepie91: long distance relationship
<joepie91> ah
<aanderse> Taneb: gchristensen was right... guess who is gonna keep bugging you now :p
<Taneb> Oh no!
<joepie91> a surprising amount of "X is in another country right now" is working out to "they're at CCCamp", hence the question :P
<eyJhb> Taneb: And I might bug you for the next half year about moodle in general then!
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<samueldr> hello, it is me, utterly useless at typing the password in the sudo prompt
<gchristensen> lol
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<eyJhb> samueldr: better typing wrong sudo passwords, than accidentally typing it into IRC
<samueldr> correct battery horse staple
<infinisil> I can't be the only one that disabled `security.sudo.wheelNeedsPassword`
<gchristensen> you might be :P
<eyJhb> infinisil: that doesn't seem safe :p
<drakonis> better to not accidentally lose files with elevated rm
<drakonis> don't run password disabled sudo
<drakonis> if you wanna disable sudo, do that in an isolated environment
<cransom> i'm a bigger fan of `security.pam.enableSSHAgentAuth` rather than a password.
<eyJhb> cransom: that seems nice
<eyJhb> But still dangerous somehow
<cransom> root is dangerous.
<eyJhb> Yeah, but.. That specific option too
<eyJhb> If your ssh key leaks, then it is "only" user access, but with that option it is root
<eyJhb> But there is a lot of "if"s in there
<eyJhb> Or rather, a big if
<cransom> hrm. that option is slightly misleading. i don't keep keys on the boxes either. it uses the forwarded auth socket if the keys don't exist.
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<eyJhb> Hmm.. Should I keep Ubuntu on my traveling laptop, or go NixOS? (NixOS seems to be draining battery with my current setup)
<joepie91> eyJhb: may just be a matter of changing a power management flag? there's also a repo somewhere with a bunch of laptop-specific configurations
<eyJhb> Already have laptop-specific config, but power management flag might help
<eyJhb> However, I also have a problem with the screen brightness not wanting to adjust :(
<gchristensen> brightness surely makes a big difference to battery
<etu> eyJhb: tlp is also nice
<gchristensen> I should try tlp...
<eyJhb> I thought I had some TLP somewhere
<eyJhb> But I have to leave like... Tomorrow, so don't know if I have the time/patience for it
<eyJhb> Oh, I have TLP enabled
<eyJhb> So I am already doing power saving joepie91
<eyJhb> Eh, going with Ubuntu for now... Might need to look into my own conf.. It also drops from 80% to 5% in secounds sometimes
<eyJhb> Might also be a bad battery
<gchristensen> eyJhb: have you let it completely discharge?
<gchristensen> until it shuts off
<eyJhb> gchristensen: it does that itself, as I don't notice it :p
<gchristensen> ah
<eyJhb> Else you would suggest complete discharge and recharge?
<gchristensen> yeah
<eyJhb> Yeah.. But it just seems odd, the battery is LESS than one year old
<eyJhb> I might try to take it from the dock and check how long it actually holds charge (77% right now)
<eyJhb> But I have a suspicion that my TLP profile is actually killing it instead of making it last longer
<gchristensen> weird
<eyJhb> brb, undocking!
<eyJhb> So... 76%, estimated to last 03:18:28 hours
<eyJhb> Btw. anyone know this error? "No outputs have backlight property" then running "xbacklight -inc 10"? It has worked before..
<gchristensen> check the nixos 19.03 release notes
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<eyJhb> gchristensen: Damn, so basically need to use brightnessctl
<eyJhb> Which, requires root. :(
<aanderse> ah that fun moment where you only have a production system and you've done as much testing as you can (but it isn't enough) and you have to hit enter to run your script...
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<eyJhb> gchristensen: thanks!
<eyJhb> And my battery dropped from 70/60% to 5% now
<gchristensen> nice
<eyJhb> A whole 15 minutes without the dock
<eyJhb> And it is a 9 cell 94 Wh battery... Again, less than a year old. It seems like something is wrong with it. Also because it suddenly just drops. i3 statusbar show 70% then sudenly 5%
<eyJhb> aanderse: I hate that, and people hate me for saying it "should" work
<gchristensen> yeah should probably RMA the battery
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<eyJhb> But I am just not sure it is the battery, but I have a hard time seeing that TLP should do anything like that..
<eyJhb> But I actually got two batteries, might be worth to unpack the other one now
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<eyJhb> Isn't there something about a battery being without charge for a long time damages it?
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<srhb> eyJhb: You may be thinking about lithium batteries' going into sleep? Which basically prevents permanent damage. But yeah, they should be stored at half charge or thereabouts.
<srhb> That would cause it to just not work though..
<srhb> (unless some cells are still awake, but that seems unlikely)
<eyJhb> srhb: currently it seems like the battery is bad, I just took the battery from my other x230, and it has funtioned for more than 30 minutes so far :p (when on only 30%, much less than the other and 15 minutes)
<eyJhb> But it is the only reason I can think of. the charge was 0% when I got the battery. Else I have been using TLP as to not charge the battery all the time while in dock
<srhb> eyJhb: 0% does sound quite weird.
<srhb> Why would you prevent the dock from charging the laptop?
<eyJhb> srhb: it was from Komplett, so who knows how long it has been sitting
<eyJhb> Basically to no keep it at 100% all the time
<srhb> lithium batteries hardly lose any charge in storage when they're already lowish.
<eyJhb> Should make the battery last longer basically
<srhb> eyJhb: I don't understand. What does TLP have to do with that?
<srhb> The battery charging circuit already prevents overcharging, and as long as your power supply is big enough, you won't be drawing from the battery while on mains.
<srhb> eyJhb: That's a terrible idea :P
<eyJhb> Not concerned with overcharging (above 100%), but more at keeping it at a constant 100%, as it might reduce the batteries life (as in months/years)
<srhb> Unless you really never use the battery anyway, I guess..
<eyJhb> I think 90% of the time I have it in a docking station
<eyJhb> If not 95%
<srhb> Ah, okay.
<srhb> Barely a laptop :D
<eyJhb> Basically I have a dock at home, at uni, and at my job at uni :p
<srhb> That's.. Really nice.
<eyJhb> Indeed! That is why when I actually need it, I would love that it lasts more than.... 15 minutes
<srhb> Here I am, in my couch, with my laptop on my lap...
<eyJhb> I am currently joining you on that one :p Testing the battery in my couch/bed
<eyJhb> But normally I don't.. Always dock. Dock dock dock :D But that is also partly because I need my keyboard to do anything
<srhb> I feel really hampered by not having the touchpad where I'm used to when I dock
<srhb> I prefer it otherwise.
<eyJhb> srhb: Are you NOT a red dot user?
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<srhb> I have been, actually, with a dock an external thinkpad keyboard (with the red dot) -- but I still prefer having a touchpad below space. I don't know of a good external keyboard that does that though :P
<srhb> I find the dot imprecise and slow.
<srhb> And... Aggravating.
<eyJhb> I have mine disabled, everyone hates me for it basically (touchpad). I feel slow and impresice on it... :p Aggravating, sometimes :D
<srhb> Thinkpad touchpads were really horrible until a few models ago though...
<eyJhb> I have my two x230s currently, and to test the other I have the 9 hours fireplace video running.. It guess it is kinda hyggeligt :D
<eyJhb> Well.. I think my touchpad on the x230 is horrible....
<srhb> These days it's almost on par with a 2008 macbook pro..
<eyJhb> But that is also from 2012
<srhb> Heh, I only recently scrapped my 2013 thinkpad :)
<srhb> 2012, actually..
<eyJhb> ! Which one?
<srhb> T530
<eyJhb> Seems nice. In favour of what?
<srhb> P51 :) It was a good machine. It could/can be fixed, but some of the finish was really dying, like the touchpad surface, speaker "grilles"..
<srhb> It's still surprisingly fast.
<eyJhb> srhb: giiiive meeee
<eyJhb> They are both nice
<srhb> Yeah :)
<eyJhb> But the P51 has the dot, right??
<srhb> Yep!
<eyJhb> But it has a hell of a lot more horsepower...
<eyJhb> But yeah, the T530 is still fast/good, same goes for my own. As long as you don't use windows it holds forever basically
<srhb> It does! Specifically I got it for the extra RAM
<eyJhb> However my graphics card is starting to limit me
<eyJhb> How much you got in it?
<srhb> I was building projects that required.. Well past 20 GiB
<srhb> 32 :)
<srhb> That seems to cover everything so far.
<eyJhb> Damn x2 mine. I would probably end up using a server for those kind of things
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<eyJhb> Up to 64 GB! Do it. Pimp it :D
<srhb> Butbut I don't need more right now :P
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<srhb> If it helps it has 2x1TiB NVME disks..
<srhb> (admittedly a bit overkill, but now I never garbage collect!)
<eyJhb> srhb: think I might swing by DMI tomorrow and grab a random P51. ;)
<srhb> hah, my work laptop is.. Less impressive ;-)
<eyJhb> Perfect plan! Kidnap it with me to Cape Town :D
<eyJhb> Ah
<eyJhb> Then it might be a little harder finding it...
<srhb> I certainly hope so! :P
<srhb> Anymoo bedtime, enjoy your evening!
<eyJhb> I wonder if AAU has beasts like that.. But tbh. I want a ARMY of x230
<eyJhb> Thanks! Goodnight srhb :)
<eyJhb> Regarding the conversation yesterday about that big battery..
<eyJhb> Any clue what airport security might say to 3 external laptop batteries that isn't in a laptop?
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<ashkitten> oh, i didnt realize my client never rejoined here when i assume services were down on freenode yesterday
<aleph-> Heh. They were?
<gchristensen> just a netsplit
<aleph-> Ah figured as much
<aleph-> Never notice those
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<ashkitten> it broke services for me
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<gchristensen> a program which reads in a bash program and emits a python program
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<infinisil> Oh this is pretty neat: https://github.com/omarroth/invidious