<jackdk>
I feel like I get it, after having someone take me by the hand through monoidal categories and monoid objects, and how the category of haskell endofunctors with the identity functor, and compose as tensor has monads as its monoid objects, but then I can't actually make that knowledge do work.
<aria>
lol :(
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<ashkitten>
what do any of those words mean
<etu>
ashkitten: haskell things I think :D
<ashkitten>
im not a real programmer bc i dont understand category theory ;-;
<Taneb>
Words have meaning?
<Taneb>
aria: let me tell you that understanding what that means is naught but a stepping stone. (it means that some people find ironic condescension amusing in a self-deprecating way)
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<manveru>
samueldr: nice, still think i'll get a garmin when my pebble finally fails...
<jackdk>
ashkitten: nah mate it's fine. CT is fun to learn but you can often use the cool stuff people build out of it without needing to know everything about it
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<Lukas4452>
Herro
<etu>
ohai
<Lukas4452>
damn, Guix is hard to manage
<Lukas4452>
glad to be back
<Lukas4452>
got a new PC too
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<talyz>
eyJhb: A slight improvement :D
<talyz>
eyJhb: did you find somewhere to stay, btw?
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<manveru>
Lukas4452: hey man :)
<manveru>
Lukas4452: i remember you asked something last time, and left before anyone could answer... :|
<manveru>
ah, teamspeak
<manveru>
guess it doesn't exist in guix at all... but i had a fix for it
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<manveru>
and after building, it was somehow using incompatible Qt versions, so i guess that's why it wasn't updated
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<Lukas4452>
i used a VM
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<Lukas4452>
i want Plymouth :(
<mgdm>
I just enabled Plymouth after you mentioned it, but it gets displayed for 0.25s because the machine's pretty quick to boot
<mgdm>
it sat on the full disk encryption passphrase thing for longer
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<Lukas4452>
it blocks X11 from working and i have a slow PC
<gchristensen>
note that NixOS bugs is off topic for -chat :)
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<tazjin>
is there a builtin or something to get a string representation of an arbitrary value?
<tazjin>
basically I want the functionality of `builtins.trace`, but returning a string
<tazjin>
`lib.generators.toPretty` apparently
<ashkitten>
Lukas4452: what's harder about guix? i've never used it :)
<Lukas4452>
well, you need to compile the whole kernel stack if you want to run it on nonfree hardware
<Lukas4452>
comunity refuses to help with some not 100% free software
<ashkitten>
ah
<Lukas4452>
making a package is Harder on Guix than on Nix
<Lukas4452>
also Nix has most programs already packaged
<ashkitten>
what's harder about it?
<Lukas4452>
like IntelliJ for example
<Lukas4452>
everything depends on the build system selected, and if your buildsystem is not supported (like gradle) its not gonna work
<Lukas4452>
and they dont wanna include stuff that is not 100% bootstrapable
<Lukas4452>
like Scala
<Lukas4452>
and the community is small and asking for a specific thing is mostly useless like " guix import nix "
<ashkitten>
oh jeez
<Lukas4452>
a function that imports nix packages... but noone know how to use it
<Lukas4452>
=_=
<infinisil>
Lukas4452: How experienced are you with guix?
<ashkitten>
i can understand the bootstrappable issue, my netbsd developer friends sometimes complain about rust being hard to package for that reason
<Lukas4452>
well, after 2 weeks of intense usage... alot for a user
<infinisil>
And how experienced are you in Nix?
<Lukas4452>
3 days
<Lukas4452>
or so
<infinisil>
Oh I see, so it's not like you find nix easier just because you use it longer
<Lukas4452>
no, not at all
<Lukas4452>
like the install of nix is simpler than the Guix install
<infinisil>
That's both nice to hear (because I like Nix), but also not nice to hear (because I want Guix to succeed too)
<Lukas4452>
even tho they have a graphical installer
<Lukas4452>
i see
<ashkitten>
it's good to get these insights. i've not used guix, though i'm interested in it
<ashkitten>
is their package set easier to hack because it's all in one lang (or so i've heard)?
<Lukas4452>
give it a try, its worth it, but in the long term, Nix will succeed
<ashkitten>
i've never had any doubt about nix succeeding :)
<Lukas4452>
if might be easier to hack, but ironically hacks are not packaged... like the "file hirachy simulator" by pkill9
<Lukas4452>
verry verry useful software but it will never make it in a package
<Lukas4452>
because Guix is maintained by people who want different things
<ashkitten>
and now i suddenly want to try to create a nixos-like distro but where paths are overlaid onto the rootfs for the process group, instead of environment variable shenanigans
<ashkitten>
sorta like magisk does on android to hide its mounts from specific processes
<Lukas4452>
nix on android :) that would be neat
<ashkitten>
i wonder how performance will degrade as i add hundreds of packages to the overlayfs
<Lukas4452>
btw, i love free software but i kinda want steam too . so yeah i use Nix
<Lukas4452>
wow
<ashkitten>
infinisil: i hope that'll help me run nixos on my cosmo communicator
<Lukas4452>
cool
<infinisil>
Steam has been annoying me a lot recently. Big picture shenanigans, it changing its state without me telling it to, stops working occasionally
<infinisil>
Fortunately I'm not very dependent on many games. I'm glad minecraft has its own launcher which has worked fabulously
<ashkitten>
i haven't really had issues with steam
<ashkitten>
and it's been so convenient for playing windows games i'm perfectly happy to accept its drm
<infinisil>
Well I guess my main trouble is with the Steam controller and Rocket League
<ashkitten>
ahh
<infinisil>
Which is like the only thing I really want to play
<ashkitten>
i remember i tried to use the steam input functionality with rocket league once and it didn't work
<Taneb>
infinisil: ah, I remember someone here saying they were having issues with that, and then I said I would give it a go and then didn't. I guess that was you?
<ashkitten>
well it worked, but not in-game
<infinisil>
Taneb: Yeah that was me
<Taneb>
(I finally installed Rocket League on my desktop on Saturday, Steam controller didn't work)
<Taneb>
(but I haven't got it working on any game I'd reasonably want a controller for)
<ashkitten>
i don't really play rocket league anymore, since they started with the whole season pass crap
<Taneb>
Annoyingly I did get it working with Europa Universalis 4, which is very much not a controller game
<infinisil>
Taneb: For one, I had to select "Force Off" for per-game controller configuration (or something along those lines) for it to work at all
<infinisil>
And a whole bunch of restarting
<infinisil>
Eventually it worked, somehow
<infinisil>
But then it stopped working when I started steam a week later
<ashkitten>
before they introduced all the fortnite style monetization awfulness i was pretty happy because they let you hide loot crates from every aspect of the game
<ashkitten>
and now it doesn't matter
<infinisil>
ashkitten: While I'm not a fan of the season pass thing (and I haven't bought it), I think it's a fair way for the developers to continue making money. The servers and development still costs money after you initially bought the game after all
<ashkitten>
infinisil: sure, but there are other ways
<Lukas4452>
if i can run postmarket OS ... can i run nixOS-Mobile?
<infinisil>
ashkitten: Namely?
<ashkitten>
well look how mmos do it, with a flat subscription
<ashkitten>
there's no psychological manipulation going on in ffxiv
<infinisil>
A season pass is basically a subscription though
<Taneb>
With a free tier
<ashkitten>
except it employs psychological manipulation tactics
<infinisil>
Those are?
<ashkitten>
can i link a video that explains much better than i can?
<infinisil>
I'd rather have a short overview than a video. I probably wouldn't watch it
<ashkitten>
i don't have all the ideas together myself
<ashkitten>
and it deserves more explanation than i can give
<manveru>
but there you go anyway, if it helps, i haven't used nix at all for it
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<adisbladis>
manveru: The immediate solution that comes to mind requires IFD :(
<adisbladis>
(or repeating your layers/extra packages in your nix config)
<adisbladis>
In any case, I think spacemacs in nixpkgs is doable within the next couple of months
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<__monty__>
Anyone have experience with free-for-oss CIs? Anything better than Circle (coming from Travis).
<adisbladis>
__monty__: What things do you value?
<gchristensen>
adisbladis++
<{^_^}>
adisbladis's karma got increased to 13
<__monty__>
adisbladis: Tests actually running. And near-zero maintenance so it'll just keep working even if the project passes into other hands.
<__monty__>
I don't think that's a lot to ask but apparently it is for Travis. Since the takeover.
<Lukas4452>
MeemOS
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<Lukas4452>
damn
<Lukas4452>
stupid cheapo internet
<adisbladis>
Lukas4452: You didn't miss anything ;)
<Lukas4452>
oki
<Lukas4452>
im glad idea is packaged for NixOS
<Lukas4452>
jetbrains software doesnt run on Guix :)
<Lukas4452>
i am a little mad at it so dont blame
<adisbladis>
__monty__: Tbh I haven't noticed anything up with travis recently, but my usage of travis is fairly limited.
<adisbladis>
Lukas4452: I was under the impression Guix could freely import nixpkgs?
<__monty__>
adisbladis: It simply hasn't been running anything for us lately. So github requires admin override to merge things, which is annoying and shouldn't become a habit.
<Lukas4452>
would be nice if someone knows how
<__monty__>
Nothing major, just shellcheck, pylint/pytest/pep8 stuff.
<Lukas4452>
i downloaded the nixpkgs but it wont work
<Lukas4452>
no real explanaition = Guix in a nutshell
<Lukas4452>
like, how to get this path? noone knows
<adisbladis>
Lukas4452: A git checkout out nixpkgs
* adisbladis
is making an educated guess
<Lukas4452>
i did that
<Lukas4452>
didnt work
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<etu>
{^_^} passes the turing test quite often :D
<__monty__>
I wonder what they mean by "This command only imports the high-level package structure that is written in the Nix language." If they don't import any of the build instructions, doesn't that make most expressions useless?
<__monty__>
Lukas4452: Did you try libreoffice? Maybe they still won't allow unfree?
<Lukas4452>
i tried idea
<Lukas4452>
and libreoffice too
<Lukas4452>
both free software
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<ashkitten>
have there been any rfcs about generifying the systemd service interface to allow for other init systems?
<__monty__>
Haven't seen an rfc but there have been efforts. Like notOS I think?
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<pie_>
ashkitten: might be helpful if you feel like aggregating existing work/resources somewhere